Author Topic: People Need To Stop Bitching  (Read 95025 times)

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Offline UncleBob

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Re: People Need To Stop Bitching
« Reply #200 on: June 17, 2012, 12:59:21 AM »
So, why did Temco/Grasshopper not work on the localization of the game simultaneously when creating the Japanese version?

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Offline Kairon

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Re: People Need To Stop Bitching
« Reply #201 on: June 17, 2012, 01:17:34 AM »
So, why did Temco/Grasshopper not work on the localization of the game simultaneously when creating the Japanese version?

I'll take a stab at it... nobody paid them the money to do that?
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Offline UncleBob

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Re: People Need To Stop Bitching
« Reply #202 on: June 17, 2012, 01:31:02 AM »
But why would they need money to do it?  Surely the sales of releasing it in the US would bring them wheelbarrows of money, had they just make the effort to localize it concurrently with the Japanese development, right?
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Offline NWR_insanolord

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Re: People Need To Stop Bitching
« Reply #203 on: June 17, 2012, 01:32:14 AM »
Since Nintendo was publishing, they may have been holding off for Treehouse to do the localization.
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Offline UncleBob

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Re: People Need To Stop Bitching
« Reply #204 on: June 17, 2012, 01:35:54 AM »
That's possible.  Likely, even.

Which means it didn't get released concurrently because Temco didn't care enough to do it.

I totally see how that's Nintendo's fault.
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Offline BranDonk Kong

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Re: People Need To Stop Bitching
« Reply #205 on: June 17, 2012, 08:58:32 AM »
*Tecmo.
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Offline Luigi Dude

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Re: People Need To Stop Bitching
« Reply #206 on: June 17, 2012, 08:28:41 PM »
According to the rumors Nintendo was going to release Fatal Frame 4 in October of 2008 for North America and Europe.  They were planning on using Halloween to help help promote the game since it was a horror game and it fit the season well.  The game was released in Japan at the end of July so there was a 3 month gap between the Japanese and planned worldwide release date.

So even if a localized version was done at the same time as the Japanese version it still would have been blocked since the international one wasn't scheduled for release until months later and all the bugs were discovered within the first week of release because the Japanese version was so buggy it'd make Bethesda proud. 
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Offline ejamer

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Re: People Need To Stop Bitching
« Reply #207 on: June 18, 2012, 08:16:41 AM »
... and all the bugs were discovered within the first week of release because the Japanese version was so buggy it'd make Bethesda proud.


Bullshit.  Pure and simple.  People keep coming back to this report about bugs blocking the international release, but according to the sources I can find online there are only three notable bugs in the game - yes, only three.
(1) There are a small number of ghosts that can't be caught, so you will have a few empty slots in the ghost list at the end of the game. 
(2) Related to the first bug, after beating the game one of the bonus options can't be selected because you didn't catch all the ghosts.
(3) In special conditions there is the potential to lock your game. There is a clear and easy in-game workaround.


Minor bugs outside of that? Sure, there are other bugs that don't affect the game in a meaningful way. But the "big" bugs blocking release don't sound any worse than what was shown in Skyward Sword or Metroid Other M.  This isn't on the scale of a Bethesda game, and weren't so terrible that it prevented people from enjoying the game either in Japan or via import.


Nintendo didn't release the game in other regions or let other companies handle it because that's how Nintendo rolls. Unless there is a strong belief that the game will sell millions of copies, it's not deemed worth their time or effort to market.  As much as I personally want the Wii Fatal Frame games, I don't believe they will sell enough to meet Nintendo's demands - bugs fixed or not.
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Offline Uncle_Optimus

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Re: People Need To Stop Bitching
« Reply #208 on: June 18, 2012, 08:29:44 AM »
... and all the bugs were discovered within the first week of release because the Japanese version was so buggy it'd make Bethesda proud.

(Reasonable cynicism regarding NOA's localization philosophy)

Somewhere between preserving that gross margin line on the financials and actively working to build out your platform support (and enhance your brand and reputation) I feel there must exist a mystical happy-land where companies can release games that smaller market segments desire.
This Narnia, if you will,  for localizing cool games can perhaps be reached through careful planning, budgeting and reaching out to said (generally well plugged-in) audience such that the company can even profit from their conventionally oh-so-foolish rites.

I think we could probably name some companies that live this fairy tale and it makes me sad that a company with many, many times the resources cannot motivate itself to do something similar just because it does not swing the profit needle for a company of such girth. Never mind that it would well serve the people who invested in their non-trivially priced platform...

Offline Luigi Dude

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Re: People Need To Stop Bitching
« Reply #209 on: June 18, 2012, 02:28:12 PM »
Nintendo didn't release the game in other regions or let other companies handle it because that's how Nintendo rolls. Unless there is a strong belief that the game will sell millions of copies, it's not deemed worth their time or effort to market. As much as I personally want the Wii Fatal Frame games, I don't believe they will sell enough to meet Nintendo's demands - bugs fixed or not.

So how do you explain all the niche titles NOE keeps releasing that have no chance of selling 1 million copies?  The fact that NOE didn't release Fatal Frame 4, despite the fact they released even more niche titles, points heavily to the rumors about NCL blocking the game because of its buggy nature as more then likely very true. 

People can mention Skyward Sword and Other M all they want but the facts are both of those games have one bug that the majority of people playing will never encounter.  Plus the bug in Skyward Sword and Other M can be easily avoided when people know what they are since they only activate at a certain point in the game if people do a certain action.  Fatal Frame 4 is filled with more bugs that everyone who plays the game will encounter no matter what they do.  Having bugs that people can't avoid is unacceptable to Nintendo who has the best debugging record in the industry.  Especially when one of the bugs makes it impossible for everyone to even 100% the game.
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Offline UncleBob

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Re: People Need To Stop Bitching
« Reply #210 on: June 18, 2012, 03:32:20 PM »
People also fail to account for when a game - not even a bad game - doesn't meet the consumer's expectaions for that brand... it effects how the consumer sees that brand.

Just like folks here who see Nintendo market a handful of full-on "casual" titles, what happens when these casual customers see a Nintendo title, pay $50 for it, then it's something way beyond anything they understand?  Makes them more cautious the next time.

Sure, I can release Sin and Punishment 2 and sell it to a few thousand people... but what happens when the Wii fit Soccer moms pick it up?
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Offline Chozo Ghost

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Re: People Need To Stop Bitching
« Reply #211 on: June 18, 2012, 03:55:33 PM »
Deciding not to release this game just because of a few bugs is the equivalent of throwing the baby out with the bath water. You know what you do when you have bugs? Fix them! Then once that's done, release the game.
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Offline NWR_insanolord

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Re: People Need To Stop Bitching
« Reply #212 on: June 18, 2012, 03:58:18 PM »
As the story goes, Nintendo wanted Tecmo to fix the bugs before the international release and they refused to.
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Offline Chozo Ghost

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Re: People Need To Stop Bitching
« Reply #213 on: June 18, 2012, 04:01:42 PM »
Well, I think we've beat the Fatal Frame thing to death. So what about Captain Rainbow? Does this one have game killing bugs as well? What's the deal with NoA not localizing this one? From what I understand its a 1st party game.

BTW, I was just looking on Wikipedia and the cover art looks a lot like your avatar, Insanolord. Could Captain Rainbow and Non-specific Action figure be one and the same?
« Last Edit: June 18, 2012, 04:03:13 PM by Chozo Ghost »
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Offline ejamer

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Re: People Need To Stop Bitching
« Reply #214 on: June 18, 2012, 04:03:21 PM »
Nintendo didn't release the game in other regions or let other companies handle it because that's how Nintendo rolls. Unless there is a strong belief that the game will sell millions of copies, it's not deemed worth their time or effort to market. As much as I personally want the Wii Fatal Frame games, I don't believe they will sell enough to meet Nintendo's demands - bugs fixed or not.

So how do you explain all the niche titles NOE keeps releasing that have no chance of selling 1 million copies? 

Although I think it is a general trend for Nintendo to focus their resources on big games and consider anything that won't sell in huge numbers as light side-projects, I was talking about NoA in particular earlier.

NoE has done a smashing job of releasing core-friendly titles close to the end of the Wii's lifecycle.  Their track record isn't perfect and there are clearly some solid Wii titles that weren't release in Europe, but NoE has gone well beyond their presumed limits when you look at the games they've translated and brought over during the past year.  I'm grateful to them for spearheading the so-called "Rainfall" trilogy, offering the games as special editions, and even doing the cool "coin" promotion too.  I'm thrilled to know they are bringing out the upcoming Project Zero 2 release - the only thing left that excites me about Wii, even if I have to import to play the game.  Without NoE, I would have missed a handful of the best games of the Wii lifecycle.  (Yes, some of those games are getting released here in North America this year. But only after NoA was actively approached, had the financial risk assumed by other companies, and was able to license NoE's existing localization efforts for re-use.)

Regarding why NoE are releasing and supporting these games when NoA shows no interest, that is a good question.  Maybe they are making an effort to appeal to core gamers before Wii U is released - unlike the empty lip service NoA keeps offering?


People also fail to account for when a game - not even a bad game - doesn't meet the consumer's expectaions for that brand... it effects how the consumer sees that brand.

Just like folks here who see Nintendo market a handful of full-on "casual" titles, what happens when these casual customers see a Nintendo title, pay $50 for it, then it's something way beyond anything they understand?  Makes them more cautious the next time.

Sure, I can release Sin and Punishment 2 and sell it to a few thousand people... but what happens when the Wii fit Soccer moms pick it up?


But what casual gamer would buy Sin & Punishment 2 when it's sitting beside a Mario XXXX or Wii YYYY game?  People buy what they know and what they have nostalgia for.  Nintendo isn't losing the casual audience because there are too many core experiences confusing them.  And if Nintendo is consciously refusing to release core games in fear that they might confuse or turn away casual gamers, how does that convince me they are worth supporting next generation anyway?


That said, Sin & Punishment 2 being on the shelf at all is an aberration that I have no explanation for.  Sure it's a great game.  But how it ever got released here is a complete mystery to me... Maybe the sales data report from Virtual Console had a typo or was misinterpreted?


Well, I think we've beat the Fatal Frame thing to death. So what about Captain Rainbow? Does this one have game killing bugs as well? What's the deal with NoA not localizing this one? From what I understand its a 1st party game.


I'd buy Captain Rainbow.  But I honestly don't personally know anyone else who would.  There is niche, and there there is niche.
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Offline UncleBob

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Re: People Need To Stop Bitching
« Reply #215 on: June 18, 2012, 04:16:15 PM »
Captain Rainbow was so niche that NoE didn't even release it! ;)
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Offline Chozo Ghost

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Re: People Need To Stop Bitching
« Reply #216 on: June 18, 2012, 04:16:23 PM »
I honestly don't personally know anyone else who would.

I think there's been at least 5 people in this thread who have outright said they would buy the game on release day, and that's just this thread.
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Offline Kairon

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Re: People Need To Stop Bitching
« Reply #217 on: June 18, 2012, 05:07:51 PM »
I honestly don't personally know anyone else who would.

I think there's been at least 5 people in this thread who have outright said they would buy the game on release day, and that's just this thread.

I think many people on this board have bought games that wouldn't/didn't sell well. For example, I bought two copies of Electroplankton...
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For never was a story of more woe
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Offline Adrock

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Re: People Need To Stop Bitching
« Reply #218 on: June 18, 2012, 05:17:31 PM »
I spent $50 each on Muramasa and Madworld. I would have bought Captain Rainbow.

Offline Louieturkey

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Re: People Need To Stop Bitching
« Reply #219 on: June 18, 2012, 05:34:43 PM »
I think there's been at least 5 people in this thread who have outright said they would buy the game on release day, and that's just this thread.
Wow, that must mean that it'd project to as many as 12 people that would buy it on these boards.  Project that out to the entire Wii userbase and we're looking at a whopping 24 people who would buy it.  Call NOA now and let them know that it is worth it!

Captain Rainbow is as inherently "Japanese" as Tingles Rupee Happy Picking Land.   They should bring that out here too!

Offline ejamer

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Re: People Need To Stop Bitching
« Reply #220 on: June 18, 2012, 06:04:21 PM »
...
Captain Rainbow is as inherently "Japanese" as Tingles Rupee Happy Picking Land.   They should bring that out here too!

I'm so close to importing Tingle... but keep hoping (dreaming?) it'll be a 3DS download code for Club Nintendo members in the future.


Subtext: no, I can't imagine this game having a significant market although I'm extremely glad that it's possible for me to get an English version.
« Last Edit: June 18, 2012, 06:16:46 PM by ejamer »
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Offline marty

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Re: People Need To Stop Bitching
« Reply #221 on: June 19, 2012, 04:44:29 PM »
Marty, to put your argument of if a company loses money, they aren't doing it right into perspective, you are basically saying that all three console maker are doing it wrong.  All three lost money in 2011.  Sony and M$ both sited lower sales in their games division as part of the cause of the lost money.

This must mean that nobody is making games that people want (at least not console makers).
Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying.  I even said it earlier in this very thread.  If your job is to make and sell videogames, and your company is losing money doing that, then you're doing a bad job. 

Offline Ian Sane

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Re: People Need To Stop Bitching
« Reply #222 on: June 19, 2012, 06:50:14 PM »
For localization I don't really have a problem if a game stays in Japan and neither NOE or NOA want to localize it.  I'm only upset when NOE localizes it and NOA does not.  That specifically comes across like NOA only wanting the big blockbuster and not caring about more niche titles.  The cultural difference between North America and Europe is not so great that anything other than localized sports games would be appropriate for one market and not the other.

Offline Chozo Ghost

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Re: People Need To Stop Bitching
« Reply #223 on: June 19, 2012, 07:13:47 PM »
Plus when a game comes to Europe it is translated into English which makes NoA holding the game back even more outrageous because the work is already done. True, the voicing may be in a British accent, but it would still be easily understood by Americans and Canadians. Reggie finally did cave with Xenoblade, but what was really sad was how much bitching it took for that to happen.

And btw, we need MORE bitching, not less. Bitching is what Operation Rainfall was all about and Bitching is why we got a handful of great A+ titles we weren't going to get otherwise. So I say bitching is the right thing to do and we need more of it. If the people who whine about the bitching had their way Operation Rainfall wouldn't have existed because fans would have just been quiet, and then we would have had nothing.

So Bitch on!  :cool;
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Offline UncleBob

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Re: People Need To Stop Bitching
« Reply #224 on: June 19, 2012, 07:31:23 PM »
As I said before, there's a world of difference between bitching and constructive criticism.
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