Topic: New Super Mario Bros. Mii Is the Mario Bros. Wii U Game

[lolmonade]

It makes perfect sense from a business standpoint to have a sequel to New Super Mario Bros be the game.  Have it be a system launch game, get kids excited for it, and have them clamor to their parents that they want the new Wii so they can play the next Mario game.
 
Then even if it doesn't selll like hotcakes, they can start including it with the Wii U after a certain point the same way they started including the original with the Wii.
 
I'm also fine with it, as I have yet to pick up a copy of Super Mario Galaxy 2.

[UncleBob]

psst...  A Mario game where you can design your own character would go great with a Mario game where you can design your own levels.

[UncleBob]

psst...  A Mario game where you can design your own character would go great with a Mario game where you can design your own levels.

New Super Mario Bros. Wii U.  Where it's all about U.

[Adrock]

psst...  A Mario game where you can design your own character would go great with a Mario game where you can design your own levels.

Why even make it a Mario game? Using Miis allows for unlimited freedom. The player makes the character; he/she should be allowed to build the world in any way he/she chooses.

I'd love a Mario level editor but like I said earlier in this thread, let Mario be Mario and let the Miis be Miis. They should be separate titles.

[UncleBob]

Because that's not Nintendo's design philosophy.

[Adrock]

 Allow me to rephrase since rhetorical quesions aren't working: it shouldn't be a Mario game.

By the way, what's Nintendo's design philosophy? I suppose what I don't understand is why would Nintendo allow so much freedom in allowing the player to create his/her own avatar but the same freedom in player created levels is suddenly off limits.

[Spak-Spang]

Well, what we don't know is if the graphics have changed...themes have changed...power ups have changed...the 2011 was a tech demo, that is being turned into a game...it used assets from the original Super Mario Wii.  So, the actually Wii U game could be quite different. 


We basically know nothing about the game.  It could have a level editor....it could have online 4 player gameplay.  It could have a VS mode...it could have some crazy fun party games included. 


Basically, people are complaining about a 2D Mario game, which should be pretty darn fun, because almost every 2D Mario game has been an absolute blast to play...including the original New Super Mario and New Super Mario Wii.

[Fatty The Hutt]

Some of these comments made me LOL. Y'all enjoy not playing the game, those that are complaining (VERY prematurely, I might add). I and the 2 to 3 million other folks that buy this game will shed no tears for you.
 

Online co-op and/or custom levels = instabuy.

The Wii U controller would actually be perfect for creating custom levels. It could be something akin to the Mario vs DK level editors on DS.

I agree with both of thse comments. I really think online co-op will happen. I hope the level editor does too. Downloadable new levels will probably happen as well.
I predict this game will be part of Nintendo's online strategy - it will be designed in a way to get people to go online, which was a big problem for Nintendo with the Wii.

[Ian Sane]

The big hook of NSMB was really that Nintendo had not made a 2D Mario game in a long time.  Well now NSMB is an established series.  2D Mario, and 2D platformers in general, are now very common place.  The newness of playing retro gameplay is gone.  A new 2D Mario should no longer focus on nostalgia but should be as progressive and innovative for the genre as the classic NES/SNES Mario games were and like the 3D Mario games are.

You get like one shot at the safe retro revival game, then you have to make something with substance.

[NWR_Neal]

We complain that Nintendo systems don't launch with Mario games anymore, and now we're up in arms about a side-scrolling Mario game likely at the system's launch and we're disappointed.

Man, Nintendo fans really are hard to please...

[UncleBob]

By the way, what's Nintendo's design philosophy?

It's the same philosophy that gives us Mario sports titles instead of a sports title with a new IP.  Or a Zelda-themed shooter.  Or Kirby-themed Epic Yarn and Star Fox Themed Dinosaur Planet.

[Luigi Dude]

We complain that Nintendo systems don't launch with Mario games anymore, and now we're up in arms about a side-scrolling Mario game likely at the system's launch and we're disappointed.

Man, Nintendo fans really are hard to please...

What's even worse is the fact that all the people complaining haven't even seen what the real game is going to look like yet.  They act like the game is going to be nothing more then a complete rehash of NSMB Wii with the only new feature added is Mii support because that's what the tech demo from a year ago looked like.  Never mind the fact that NSMB Wii was a huge improvement over the DS game with bigger levels, more complex and challenging gameplay as well as adding 4-player multiplayer.


You'd think people would expect the Wii U game to have a similar jump like Wii had over DS, but no, to them it's going to be exactly like the Wii version just because a short tech demo which was quickly made using the NSMB Wii engine for the sole purpose of showing how the Wii U controller can stream games on it.  Apparently waiting less then 2 months before seeing what the real game is going to look like is way too much for some people now.

[NWR_Neal]

As Aaron said, the demo last year was made for HD.

I don't think the game will blow our minds, but I would be shocked if there isn't another revelation or two at E3 about it that hypes us up.

[GoldenPhoenix]

We complain that Nintendo systems don't launch with Mario games anymore, and now we're up in arms about a side-scrolling Mario game likely at the system's launch and we're disappointed.

Man, Nintendo fans really are hard to please...

Considering the 2-D Mario games have been shells of the SNES/NES games, it is kind of hard to get hyped for yet another Mario game. Nintendo has yet to wow me at all with the NSMB games, NSMB Wii was a big step up from the DS one, but still was lacking. Was it fun? Yes. Was it memorable in the slightest? No, not really beyond maybe the final boss battle.


Now if the game has become a new 3-D Platformer or shfted to a more spirte based/hand drawn look, I would get excited.

[Fatty The Hutt]

I don't think the game will blow our minds

It's already blowing my mind...and my wallet!
Hey-yo!

[Ian Sane]

I've heard the "those aren't the final graphics" talk before and when has it EVER been true?  If Nintendo going to completely rehaul the graphics for this when they already had it working last year?  Who does that?  When has Nintendo ever done that with something that was actually playable?

And does Nintendo have a reputation for being incredibly lazy and using the same plain vanilla Mario models in numerous games (not to mention the Mii models)?  Uh, yes they do.  So I should assume that THIS time they won't?

We complain that Nintendo systems don't launch with Mario games anymore, and now we're up in arms about a side-scrolling Mario game likely at the system's launch and we're disappointed.

Man, Nintendo fans really are hard to please...

Nintendo seems to operate in extremes while what their fans want is somewhere in the middle.  Nintendo's response to Wind Waker backlash was to practically remake Ocarina of Time.  So it either has to be a glorified cartoon or  cookie-cutter OoT pastiche?  It can't be, I don't know, something in between?  There clearly is going to be some situation that is either not enough Mario or too much Mario and the sweet spot is in between.  If Nintendo can only operate in black and white extremes it's because they're idiots, not because their fans can't be pleased.

[Adrock]

It's the same philosophy that gives us Mario sports titles instead of a sports title with a new IP.

Miis are already a thing though. They're not new.

[NWR_insanolord]

Wasn't Skyward Sword basically in between those two Zelda extremes you mentioned, Ian?

Also, if Nintendo wants to do 2D Mario right they should give it to EAD Tokyo. As much as I'd love to see them get a shot to do something different for a change, they clearly understand the Mario style, and I'd argue the 2D segments in the Galaxy games show a lot more creativity than anything in a NSMB game.

[Ian Sane]

Wasn't Skyward Sword basically in between those two Zelda extremes you mentioned, Ian?

Also, if Nintendo wants to do 2D Mario right they should give it to EAD Tokyo. As much as I'd love to see them get a shot to do something different for a change, they clearly understand the Mario style, and I'd argue the 2D segments in the Galaxy games show a lot more creativity than anything in a NSMB game.

Yeah Skyward Sword was very much in between.  Of course Nintendo then decided "hey let's just recycle the same three areas a million times and include an annoying design element from Phantom Hourglass that nobody liked!"  Still that's a flaw in the specific execution.  Sometimes they have the right general idea and screw up the details.  Mario Sunshine is a great example of that as it they tried to differentiate it from Mario 64 which was a good idea.  The problem was that the waterpack idea they came up with to differentiate it wasn't any good.  But they didn't overreact with Super Mario Galaxy and stuck to the idea of differentiating it from the earlier titles and came up with the planets concept which WAS a good idea.

And as you mentioned with Mario Galaxy I also thought some of the 2D areas in that game and its sequel were incredibly creative.  I remember one from Galaxy 2 where Mario jumps into zero-gravity pockets of water and swins around and then jumps out of them back into "normal" gameplay.  At the time I thought to myself "why isn't there anything this cool in NSMB Wii?"  It isn't like the 2D platformer genre is done and no one can come up with cool new ideas for it.  They exist and Nintendo has come up with some of them.  The problem is just that with NSMB they are intentionally unambitious.  It is supposed to be safe and predictable.

And I think I need to point out the elephant in the room here: the problem is the casual market.  NSMB was the biggest hit on the DS.  Nintendo wanted NSMB Wii to have universal appeal and that means it had to be conservative.  They promoted the hell out of the whole family playing together with the four player support.  It was also the first Super Guide game.  The target audience prohibited Nintendo from going for broke.  It has to be familiar and safe to get lapsed gamers to buy it.  It's the same reason why Mario Kart games now punish skill because casuals find that intimidating.  If NSMB was full of Mario Galaxy style 2D levels it wouldn't have as much universal appeal.

The Miis mean this game is also going for universal appeal.  Ditto the mulitplayer.  I want some real creativity on this but it is not possible if Nintendo is going for the casuals.  Even if you think casuals will accept more creativity Nintendo doesn't think that.

[leahsdad]

Maybe I'm being naive, but...

I've seen a lot of people, nay, NINTENDO FANS on this thread say "Oh, this may be the first Mario platformer that I pass on."

Now, in retrospect:  Has there ever been a Mario platformer, in the history of Mario platformers, that have been bad enough or even mediocre enough to pass on?  I'm ignoring the Lost Levels, but hey, I'm American and I was never given the chance to pass on that, in Nintendo's finite but sizeable wisdom. 

The decison-makers at NCL are not stupid, and as much as making a mediocre sequel to cash in might sound plausible or even likely (hello Activision) I have a little faith that this will be a good game with inspired level design, at the very least.  At the very, very worst, this will be NSMB DS, and hey, we knock that game, but it was enjoyable.   I bought it.

[Ian Sane]

A game doesn't have to be outright bad to pass on, just unexceptional.  Every game out there is competing for my time and money so they have to stand out.  It's like how Mega Man has remained decent but is not so exceptional that I feel the need to buy every game in the series.

I have already skipped a Mario since I don't own a 3DS and I don't really care.  I don't feel like I'm missing out.  The concept of unessential Mario already exists for me.

This game is going to be good.  I have no doubt there.

[BeautifulShy]

I am going to have to agree with Fatty the Hutt up above. A lot of you are complaining prematurely. At this point in time we know that it is 2D Mario and it has Miis and the Wii U is coming out some time at the end of the year. There is plenty of time between now and then or before the release of the game. I also have been noticing something similar with you guys as of late. You guys have no patience as far as it comes to info or games. I don't know about the rest of you but I got my patience during the N64 era.

[Luigi Dude]

A game doesn't have to be outright bad to pass on, just unexceptional.  Every game out there is competing for my time and money so they have to stand out.  It's like how Mega Man has remained decent but is not so exceptional that I feel the need to buy every game in the series.

I have already skipped a Mario since I don't own a 3DS and I don't really care.  I don't feel like I'm missing out.  The concept of unessential Mario already exists for me.

This game is going to be good.  I have no doubt there.

So you complain about the NSMB games not being creative, but you don't care about playing Mario 3D Land which is one of the most creative Mario games ever made?  So you want more creativity in Mario games but you refuse to play them when they are.

So why do you even care about NSMB Wii U then if even if it is more creative then the previous games, you'll just ignore it anyway?

[Adrock]

There's no place for your logic here. This is a logic-free zone. Get the hell out of this zone.

[Stogi]

This is more disappointing than the Holocaust...and how it failed.

Seriously though, I'm going to wait to reserve judgment and instead put out what I'd like to see into the universe. Hopefully it'll happen. For instance, I REALLY HOPE NINTENDO WILL CHANGE THE ART STYLE.

I feel like that's all everyone is really bitching about. Mii's, NSBWii, blah blah not imaginative blah blah Galaxy ROCKS!!!!! blah blah Nintendo sucks. As I read past the bullish I found that what you guys really didn't like and don't want to see is the reuse of the art style, and you know what? You're right. I don't like the art style either. It's not terrible, but it's not exciting either. This is one of those "ZELDA GC WOOT! WAIT WTF IS WINDWAKER" moments that is actually backed by the fans. Nintendo was right to force feed us Windwaker's oh so smooth delightfulness, but now it's our turn to request (read: demand) it.