Author Topic: The Legend of Korra [Season 4 airs in Jan/Feb for Australia]  (Read 150402 times)

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Offline broodwars

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Re: The Legend of Korra [Season 4 airs in Jan/Feb for Australia]
« Reply #325 on: December 19, 2014, 03:32:18 AM »
I just watched the finale, myself. Overall, a good 2-parter to cap off what was otherwise a pretty average & predictable season. There were some really nice moments towards the end.

As for the finale sequence of the episode...yeah, I had a feeling they were going there with how much screen time those 2 characters kept having this season.

As for Korra overall, now that the series is over I can say that it was decent, but it's a show that never really seemed to reach its potential. Frankly, even the leads in this show are paper-thin, with little to no character development over the course of the series outside Korra herself (seriously, name one notable character trait about Asami besides the fact that she fixes/builds stuff).  One of the most disappointing things about Seasons 3 & 4 is that it felt like the creators were trying to finally reveal some depth to the characters, but they just didn't have the episode count to pull it off. The writing was incredibly inconsistent, with moments of brilliance dotting large periods of mediocrity (and some long periods of just plain BAD writing in the 2nd & 4th seasons) for the vast majority of the series. It certainly didn't help that from Season 3 onward it felt like Nick was deliberately trying to sabotage the series, between leaked episodes; slashed budgets; and the series going online-only. 

Overall, I did like the series, but imagine what we could have had had the show had a consistent plan from the beginning and a similar episode count to Avatar: TLA.
« Last Edit: December 19, 2014, 03:37:01 AM by broodwars »
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Offline ObbyDent

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Re: The Legend of Korra [Season 4 airs in Jan/Feb for Australia]
« Reply #326 on: December 19, 2014, 05:00:38 AM »

Also i really, REALLY liked party outfits of everyone in the end. Gorgeous fashion all around, everyone looked bitching.


Except for Opal. Bitch was still wearing her airbender outfit.

If anyone cares, I'll have a short write up of the entire series tomorrow. I want to sleep on the ending and digest the show before I talk about how good (or bad) the show ended up being. Korra as a whole is a very interesting beast to tackle.

Offline Stogi

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Re: The Legend of Korra [Season 4 airs in Jan/Feb for Australia]
« Reply #327 on: December 19, 2014, 08:15:21 AM »
At first I was going to make this about the whole series, but I'll just focus on the **** storm the ending is causing.

Ahem...

To 'The Legend of Korra',

You should NOT apologize. Why? Because despite what some might say, you have nothing to apologize for.

Very rarely do I come across a show that displays a world that is as spirited and accomplished as yours, and it’s a testament that despite Nick’s mismanagement, to put it lightly, you ended as well as you did. And I, as a long time fan, want to thank you for the many hours of entertainment and the chance to partake in something so wonderfully creative.

That said, there is going to be a lot of divisiveness regarding the ending of your series, mainly the hint that Korra and her friend Asami may pursue a lesbian relationship. Now I’m not here to say if it was the right or wrong decision. My opinion is not what I want to address. Regardless of how I feel, the reason you have nothing to apologize for is because of how you achieved your denouement.

You see, this is a matter of good writing. If you simply shoved Korra and Asami together and said they’re a couple, I could empathize with people for feeling angry and confused. In fact, I would be right there with them. But you didn’t. You gradually drew the lines and erased the space between them, slowly developing their compatibility until it crescendoed into intimacy. Taken chronologically, Korra and Asami were at first very dismissive of each other. They both liked Mako and they both knew it; forming an impasse and fracturing their relationship. But as time moved on, you had them fight together, learning to trust each other despite their schism. Then you ended the love triangle with Mako, and cut him out of the picture completely. Realizing just how petty and childish it all was, this pressed the dirt that allowed their friendship to blossom. Later, when Korra was badly injured, it was Asami who looked after her, epitomizing their compassion for one another. You then had Korra write Asami and no one else during her long recovery, exemplifying how close they became. And finally, you illustrated just how important they are to one another when they decided to embark on an adventure alone. But even then you showed glances of trepidation, as they both knew where this might lead, yet courage to move forward. This is how you write for your characters. Whether they pursue an intimate relationship or not, it feels legitimate.
   
If people are angry and shocked, criticize your decision, or try to use this as a tool or an example, good and bad, then so be it. Just realize, you have nothing to apologize for.

A fan,
Hypotheliciously
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Offline UncleBob

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Re: The Legend of Korra [Season 4 airs in Jan/Feb for Australia]
« Reply #328 on: December 19, 2014, 12:45:51 PM »
Not happy with the ending for a single reason...  The ending was purposely left just ambiguous enough that Nick/whomever could wave it off.  "Oh, they're just really good friends going on an adventure together."

If they were going to do the thing, they should have just done the thing.  Not half-assed it in a way that lets them double-talk out of it to upset soccer moms.
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Offline ObbyDent

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My opinion of the finale and the entire show
« Reply #329 on: December 19, 2014, 02:22:42 PM »
To be honest, I'm getting sick of people arguing for or against the ending with the two of them. There's far more to be discussed with the ending that is far more important than whether or not the two female leads are in lesbians with each other. Don't get me wrong, I'm incredibly surprised and happy that we are getting to the point where we can have these kinds of characters in an American cartoon, but it's overshadowing every other aspect of the finale that wasn't great... at all.

The entirety of Book 4 is basically an epilogue to the story that ended in Book 3. He character development into being a great Avatar ended in that season. Her development that we got in Book 4 was her coming to terms with the loss that she endured at the end of the previous season. Is that a good way to go about it? Sure! I love that they decided to tackle this sort of thing after a big battle when most TV shows don't seem to do that. However, it should not have been the last season that they did this in.

Because of that, Book 4 finale ended up being absolutely nothing. There was nothing being said about anything. We got no closure on absolutely anything or anyone besides a few of the minor characters. There was no emotional payoff near the end. I feel like The Hobbit: Battle of the Five Armies is basically what I feel about the finale: devoid of emotion and ultimately about nothing.

Hell, even Asami, who had spotlight in the finale due to their presumed (?) relationship together, was a useless character if we ignore her as a tool for Korra as a relationship. Outside of Book 1, she was delegated to the background, here and there and but never "part of the group". Even during the last season she hardly appeared -- and when she did, it was to settle her daddy issues. Until the ending of the show, the point of her character was to be the woman with the boy trouble; either with Mako or her father.

Now, Kuvira. Oh man Kuvira. An awful, awful villain. She was basically Ozai but without the three seasons of buildup to her. Now, the ending conversation Korra and Kuvira had was cool: it showed Korra's difference in character after Book 3 and I like that. However, it also completely devolved Kuvira into a non-issue. She turned into this sniveling baby that just wanted her mama again. It was akin to shoving a sock into Zaheer's mouth.

Which brings me to the issue of all the "kid" stuff in Korra. Surprisingly, despite how much more adult the show seems, it has more moments of it being a "kid" show than Avatar ever had. Many more fart jokes, more moments of ruining a villain's character for the sake of a laugh or lack of depth, etc. It's interesting, because while we got all of that, we also had the well-written deaths of Amon and the Red Lotus, and of course the finale.

All in all, I fully enjoy Korra. It had a lot more "highs" for me as a TV show. However, as a complete package, it felt disjointed and not as well put together as its predecessor. I completely understand why, due to how it was expanded from a 12 episode series. I still don't think I should forgive it for its many issues, however.

Offline Stogi

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Re: The Legend of Korra [Season 4 airs in Jan/Feb for Australia]
« Reply #330 on: December 19, 2014, 02:56:23 PM »
Producing a new villain each season is complicated work. But I think they accomplished what they set out to do, and that was show how the world and the Avatar evolved. They may have tried too much because as writers, you could tell they had several ideas on how to move forward, but with shaky management, didn't know if they could produce them all. So they tried and hit several plot points: anti-benders, evil avatar, anarchist regime, and a tyrant (and homosexuality). And through that lens, I thought the show was a success.
« Last Edit: December 19, 2014, 02:58:58 PM by Hypotheliciously »
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Offline ObbyDent

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Re: The Legend of Korra [Season 4 airs in Jan/Feb for Australia]
« Reply #331 on: December 19, 2014, 03:17:07 PM »
The one thing that Korra excelled at over Avatar was the absolutely amazing soundtrack. Serious, Jeremy Zuckerman deserves a fucking award for the work he's done. **** Nick for not releasing a soundtrack past season 1. Here's the ending cue to Korra, straight from Zuckerman's Soundcloud.

https://soundcloud.com/jeremy-zuckerman/the-legend-of-korra

Not as good as "Service and Sacrifice" from the season 3 finale but still fucking beautiful.

https://soundcloud.com/jeremy-zuckerman/service-and-sacrifice

...drat. Now I'm really sad it's over.
« Last Edit: December 19, 2014, 03:22:22 PM by ObbyDent »

Offline UncleBob

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Re: The Legend of Korra [Season 4 airs in Jan/Feb for Australia]
« Reply #332 on: December 19, 2014, 05:02:01 PM »
The soundtrack was amazing. I own 3 copies of it.  I'm just thrilled we got *something*, as there was never a TLA soundtrack.

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Offline Spak-Spang

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Re: The Legend of Korra [Season 4 airs in Jan/Feb for Australia]
« Reply #333 on: December 20, 2014, 10:14:01 AM »
Not happy with the ending for a single reason...  The ending was purposely left just ambiguous enough that Nick/whomever could wave it off.  "Oh, they're just really good friends going on an adventure together."

If they were going to do the thing, they should have just done the thing.  Not half-assed it in a way that lets them double-talk out of it to upset soccer moms.

This is where I disagree.  You don't have to beat somebody over the head with "reveal."  Let people discover it themselves, or not.  It makes the ending more classy, and allows adults to get something different, than kids will get from it. 

Offline UncleBob

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Re: The Legend of Korra [Season 4 airs in Jan/Feb for Australia]
« Reply #334 on: December 20, 2014, 05:15:46 PM »
This is where I disagree.  You don't have to beat somebody over the head with "reveal."  Let people discover it themselves, or not.  It makes the ending more classy, and allows adults to get something different, than kids will get from it. 

If I honestly thought they were going for the more artsy direction, then I'd be inclined to agree with you.  But my gut instinct (which I tend to go with) is that it was done as a "Get out of Jail Free" card... which just reeks of them being afraid of backlash.
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Offline Spak-Spang

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Re: The Legend of Korra [Season 4 airs in Jan/Feb for Australia]
« Reply #335 on: December 20, 2014, 05:43:45 PM »
Which Unclebob, I beilieve is an intelligent, and wise.  The issue of homosexuality in America is devisive.   Korra may be a progressive cartoon, but it is still a cartoon that can influence kids.  It is best to tell your story in a way that respects all views and concerns, because of the potential target audience.

Offline UncleBob

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Re: The Legend of Korra [Season 4 airs in Jan/Feb for Australia]
« Reply #336 on: December 20, 2014, 05:58:44 PM »
Except the show wasn't respectful.  The show was full of some pretty nasty violence (head explosion and all).

Why is it that violence is something we're so completely free with, but love is something we aren't allowed to talk about on a show because it has a target audience of children?

I just disagree with it.  If they wanted to avoid it, I feel they should have avoided it - but doing it half way just felt cheap to me.
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Offline ObbyDent

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Re: The Legend of Korra [Season 4 airs in Jan/Feb for Australia]
« Reply #337 on: December 20, 2014, 07:04:35 PM »
I think you are misplacing your frustration here. Blame the insane culture that we have in America and not two guys trying their best with what they have.


Offline UncleBob

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Re: The Legend of Korra [Season 4 airs in Jan/Feb for Australia]
« Reply #338 on: December 20, 2014, 07:27:13 PM »
There's plenty of blame to go around, don't worry. :)
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Offline ObbyDent

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Re: The Legend of Korra [Season 4 airs in Jan/Feb for Australia]
« Reply #339 on: December 22, 2014, 01:51:51 AM »
A dear friend of mine had this to say about the finale of Korra and what it means for her family. It's a fantastic read and really proves what makes The Legend of Korra such a fantastic show. Maybe this might change your view of the ending, Unclebob, to something that is far less "lazy" than you seem to think?

http://avatar-mom.tumblr.com/post/105659602917/i-have-cried-about-so-many-things-in-the-last-day

For her and the rest of my friends who are more personally affected by the ending, the ending is everything they could have hoped for and a step in the right direction. Mike and Bryan are probably the last people you want to put any sort of blame on.
« Last Edit: December 22, 2014, 01:55:01 AM by ObbyDent »

Offline Adrock

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Re: The Legend of Korra [Season 4 airs in Jan/Feb for Australia]
« Reply #340 on: January 03, 2015, 07:25:03 PM »
Okie-dokes, I finished both Avatar: The Last Airbender and The Legend of Korra, but I don't feel like splitting this post between the TV thread and this one so I'll discuss both of them here. I didn't read through this thread so if I write something here you disagree with, it's nothing personal. I'm also forgoing spoiler tags.

Avatar: The Last Airbender
I think collectively it's the better of the two though I still feel like they're really difficult to compare which I'll get to later. In the first season, it was pretty clear that the writers had a story arc in mind. Aang had until the next summer to defeat Fire Lord Ozai before Sozin's Comet passes close enough to Earth for the Fire Nation to **** things up. It was appropriately three seasons long and even then, there were a few filler episodes that could have been cut or the one or two important bits could have been combined into other episodes. Still, having a set arc and knowing where to take these characters made the show feel more cohesive as opposed to each season being a separate arc like The Legend of Korra.

Book One: Water is probably the weakest season, but I don't want to be too hard on it. They have to introduce the characters and the world, and naturally that takes time. There's no way around that. Origin stories are a necessary evil. It's difficult to make exposition interesting.

Book Two: Earth was easily the best season across both shows. It isn't even that close either. Besides being able to jump right into the story, Toph Motherfucking Beifong was introduced. She was by far the best character in either show. She made every scene that much better by being in it. I liked the show enough before Toph showed up, but her character is so excellent that I had trouble not watching the next episode. I liked the other characters too (probably Aang the least); they just aren't as awesome as Toph.

Additionally, Azula was a better season villain than Zuko, partly because I expected him to end up being good which totally happened. The writers weren't really shy about hinting at it either. The trajectory of Azula's character was harder to predict and the show benefited from that. I didn't really buy her descent into complete psychosis by the end. It happened too fast. She seemed more sociopathic than full-on crazy.

If I didn't already know there was a third season, I probably would have been more surprised by the complete Empire Strikes Back-esque season finale with the good guys losing. Still, that was such an awesome finale to a really strong season. The weak link was probably the three or four episodes Appa was kidnapped and Aang kind of broke character. I get being upset, but he became downright belligerent and annoying. It's forgivable because something something Toph something.

Book Three: Fire started very slowly. There was a lot of filler at the beginning of that season. That beach episode was particularly weak. There were some funny moments and minor character stuff (albeit involving characters who aren't that important, Ty Lee and Mai). Besides the Combustion Man part, it's mostly filler. The bloodbending episode was cool, but there was no payoff for it. Katara almost bloodbends the man who killed her and Sokka's mother then just walks away. I understand the importance of Katara choosing not to kill someone, but she didn't need to learn an entire advanced skill of waterbending to get to that point. It just seemed like the writers needed to pad the season because they didn't have enough story for a full 20-something episode season. It was a good episode, just kind of pointless in the grand scheme of the show.

The season picks up considerably when Team Avatar fails again during the solar eclipse. Obviously, they were going to fail (since it was in the middle of the last season), but that was a major turning point where they got rolling towards the finale. It was a very strong ending and the fight between Aang and Ozai did not disappoint. My only issues with the finale are the previously mentioned Azula craziness and the Deus Ex Machina moment when the Lion Turtle gives Aang energybending so he doesn't have to kill Ozai since this is a kids show. Not that I expected a brutal murder scene, but Deus Ex Machina is cheating and cheap storytelling. I understand why the writers had to do it; I still didn't like it.

Ultimately, Avatar: The Last Airbender is a good show. I thoroughly enjoyed it, certainly a lot more than I thought I would. When the show premiered, I was already out of my anime phase and I had already given up on television a year or two before. Avatar: The Last Airbender seemed like another American show that was trying to cash-in on the anime craze, and I didn't care enough to give it a chance. I'm glad I finally did though binge-watching certainly makes it easier to get hooked on shows. The animation wasn't great in the first season but improves in each subsequent season. The series finale was just so amazingly well-done. Still, the animation in The Legend of Korra trumps it entirely.

And it's a shame that Nickelodeon didn't greenlight the follow-up story about Zuko and Azula's mother as a movie. It would have made a good epilogue. I just read the summary of the graphic novels.

The Legend of Korra
It's a very different kind of show than its predecessor so it feels like the only reason to compare the two is because they take place in the same universe. However, everything is different: tone, style, storytelling etc. Even though the writers generally do a pretty good job of connecting the seasons, they can stand alone with story arcs that resolve themselves at the end of each season. Korra's character arc continues from season to season as well as some of the other characters though most of the other characters don't have enough depth to matter.

I think Oblivion mentioned in the TV show thread that The Legend of Korra was only supposed to be a 12-episode mini-series. I'm really glad Nickelodeon decided to expand on it because Book One: Air was pretty mediocre though Nickelodeon's meddling is probably the reason why the shows suffers in certain places. They had to do another whole origin and introduce brand new characters (which collectively were immensely worse and uneven than Avatar: The Last Airbender's cast). Then, there were whole episodes devoted almost entirely to Avatar Quidditch (or pro-bending, who cares?). The rapid advancement of technology in the 70 years between Avatar: The Last Airbender and The Legend of Korra take place seemed absurd to me. It's fiction so I tried to ignore it.

Amon wasn't even that interesting, and it wasn't surprising at all that he was a bender though I suppose this was the ultimate payoff to that bloodbending episode in Avatar: The Last Airbender. If I take it that way, it still plays out more as something the writers tried to justify than something that was planned all along. It seemed a little lazy that people can now bloodbend any time (not just during a full moon) and that Amon can use it to take away someone's bending ability. It was such an exclusive ability in terms of knowledge and availability then the writer's were like, "Ahh, **** it." Giving Korra the ability to restore people's bending ability (especially after regaining bending herself) was a cop-out. In retrospect, it makes Amon a far less threatening villain. I wonder if the writers would have just left Korra without most of her Avatar powers if the show remained 12 episodes only. That seems like a pretty finite way to end things. The next Avatar in the line would presumably be able to master all the elements again.

Book Two: Spirits was much better even if it felt disconnected from the first season. There's greater weight to the events in subsequent seasons because one leads into and is directly responsible for the next. Korra leaves the spirit portals open which gives people airbending including Zaheer who uses it break out of prison. Zaheer kills The Earth Queen which fractures the Earth Kingdom and throws the entire region into chaos. He also poisons Korra which leads to Kuvira uniting the kingdom instead of Korra.

Anyway, I wasn't especially impressed by season two until the Avatar Wan episodes (I really liked the art style too). Unalaq wasn't a very good villain, but Vaatu changed the stakes. Still, defeating Vaatu caused a problem for the rest of the series. Once Korra purifies the spirit of chaos and darkness, I had trouble believing other villains could pose a real threat.

And good job casting Aubrey Plaza as Eska. Kudos to whoever made that call.

Book Three: Change was probably my favorite season of The Legend of Korra. It had the best fighting and the most consistent storytelling in the series. The Red Lotus were the best villains since Azula, and they were all written and portrayed fairly well. Still, there's a bit of cheating at the end. How do you get around the fact that Korra defeated the greatest threat to the world and the Avatar line (that also cut her attachment to her previous lives)? You literally handcuff her. Then, you poison her. The whole history with Raava and Vaatu raised the stakes of that battle and made it far more interesting. There's really no where to go but down after that.

I thought Korra was going to end up fighting all four main members of the Red Lotus at the same time and maybe that would even the playing field. Still, Korra vs. The Red Lotus/Zaheer was just immensely enjoyable and collectively my favorite fight of either series, even with Korra de-powered to make the fight close. Additionally, it was nice that the writers clarified that airbending has an advanced skill (flying). It was one of those things that I was left wondering about at the end of Avatar: The Last Airbender. Lightning didn't really make sense for fire, but fine. Earthbending has two advanced skills: metalbending and lavabending. Waterbending has bloodbending though if waterbenders can control any form of water, shouldn't that also include air?

Book Four: Balance was considerably weaker than the previous two seasons, but still stronger than the first season. Kuvira wasn't a very good villain either though Zelda Williams did her best. She had a certain presence to her; she just didn't have the power to back it up. Again, they cheated by handicapping Korra. The only reason Kuvira wasn't defeated immediately was because Korra was still dealing with the residual effects of the poison from the previous season (and the little bit still left in her body). It's weird that many of the major villains across both shows just end up in prison. Ozai, Azula, Zaheer, and (presumably) Kuvira are jailed despite some pretty terrible crimes. I expected Kuvira to be thrown into the Fog of Lost Souls (which I suppose is just another kind of prison albeit an extremely awful one) after a short fight in the Spirit World considering her crimes include kidnapping, treason, torture, slavery, and attempted genocide.

I didn't really like the ending; it felt rushed. The fight ends, Korra and Kuvira talk in the Spirit World, then there's a wedding. I didn't really care for the pairing of Korra and Asami. I'm NOT against it (EDIT: I really mean I'm not against it. Jebus.). However, I didn't think the writers established enough between the two to justify it. I realize that this is a Nickelodeon show and there's a limit to what they're allowing the producers to show, but if they're going to do it, then commit to it. Leaving their relationship ambiguous is a disservice to the message they're trying to make. Still, I just didn't particularly like any of the love story stuff in either show. It generally felt forced, distracting, and unnecessary.

Ultimately, they were both good albeit flawed shows. I'd have to watch them again, but I definitely noticed some plot holes and inconsistencies. I think the shows definitely suffered by being on Nickelodeon as there were things that were either glossed over or ignored. Still, they got away with a lot for a show rated Y7.

And I didn't want to put this next bit in the middle of my (already very long) write up. Meelo was so fucking annoying and terrible. I generally like kids; I just hate kids like Meelo. He wrecked every scene he was in. He almost ruined the episode where Toph returns since he was featured so prominently. He's the anti-Toph. Everything that made Toph awesome and fun, Meelo was the opposite of that. His voice, his lines, his mannerisms, his personality, his design, his everything was awful, flat-out fucking awful. And he never did anything that important to justify his existence. Anything he did could have been re-written for Jinora and/or Ikki. He's such a horrible choice by writers, directors, and showrunners who have done a mostly good job that I'm docking points from The Legend of Korra just because Meelo is that bad. And fartbending? Fucking seriously? Goddammit.

Still good all-around shows. I recommend them.
« Last Edit: January 04, 2015, 11:10:30 AM by Adrock »

Offline ObbyDent

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Re: The Legend of Korra [Season 4 airs in Jan/Feb for Australia]
« Reply #341 on: January 04, 2015, 02:05:16 AM »
Lots of things I'd like to address and discuss with that great write-up. Glad you ultimately enjoyed the two shows. When I'm not feeling the after effects of my travel today then I'll reply to what you wrote here.

Offline Spak-Spang

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Re: The Legend of Korra [Season 4 airs in Jan/Feb for Australia]
« Reply #342 on: January 04, 2015, 08:58:02 AM »
Ultimately I like your discussion of all the seasons.  I think I disagree with some of what you said.  I personally think the first season of Korra is very strong…and is easily the second best season of Korra, and probably the 3rd best season of the series.  Books 2 and 3 of The Last Airbender were better.  The best season of Korra is easily book 3.  I feel like that story really opened up the world and created opened up the possibilities of bending more.

I have mixed feelings about the advanced bending techniques.  I think in Korra bending got too powerful with some of the advanced abilities…but it still was fun to watch. 

Your thoughts on fire and lightning bending I had the same ideas.  I thought lightning isn't the same as fire and was a silly advanced ability.  However, when it is explained that bending fire is bending the energy in the air and within you…which is why Fire benders could "create" their element while Earth and Water elements couldn't.  Made sense.  Lightning is a form of energy and so is fire, so I learned to accept that. 

As for blood bending it is not something that could be done by any bender…but a special bender that learned the skill.  It is extremely rare and shocking.  Though water had the many advanced skills.  Healing, Ice, Water.  And you mentioned pulling the water out of the air…and yes highly skilled and advanced water benders could do that at full strength. 


Offline Adrock

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Re: The Legend of Korra [Season 4 airs in Jan/Feb for Australia]
« Reply #343 on: January 04, 2015, 11:08:09 AM »
If I had to rank the seasons:

1. Book Two: Earth
2. Book Three: Change
3. Book Three: Fire
4. Book Two: Spirits
5. Book Four: Balance
6. Book One: Water
7. Book One: Air

That doesn't say as much as it might seem. Book Two: Earth is far and away the best season for me and it isn't close. It's entirely escalation with the fewest issues. Book One: Air is seventh because there are only seven total and it has to go somewhere, but it really isn't that close to Book One: Water. Book Four: Balance gets the edge over Book One: Water because it has some of the best fight scenes and very little filler (besides the clips show though that was entirely Nickelodeon's fault for cutting the budget). In fact, Book Four: Balance could have used at least another episode because the ending was so rushed. Book Three: Fire and Book Three: Change are very close. I go back and forth between the two. Book Three: Fire finishes very strong but has an egregious amount of filler in the beginning. Book Three: Change has my favorite fight scene between the two series, edging out Aang vs. Ozai. Book Two: Balance is right in the middle mainly because the second half is very good. I felt like it had the intended ending of the show though Book Three: Change also does a very good job of acting as a finale.

Anyway, I forgot about healing. I'd consider that and bloodbending to be waterbending's advanced skills. I figured anyone could learn bloodbending with intense training and practice because between Avatar: The Last Airbender and The Legend of Korra, Katara has bloodbending outlawed (I presume not singlehandedly) so it must have eventually become widespread enough for this to happen. I didn't consider ice to be an advanced waterbending skill because I thought the entire point of waterbending was being able to control all forms of water. That was my point about airbending. I feel like it should be a part of waterbending. It's one of those inconsistencies I ignore like how lightning is an advanced skill of fire. It doesn't really make sense to me, but it isn't a big enough deal to wreck my enjoyment of the shows. I'm not sure what the creators' actual intentions for all these techniques and skills were, but this was how I interpreted them.

Offline ObbyDent

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Re: The Legend of Korra [Season 4 airs in Jan/Feb for Australia]
« Reply #344 on: January 04, 2015, 01:20:47 PM »
Lightning is an advanced skill of fire because it isn't so much "fire"bending as "chi"bending. When you firebender, you are bending the chi within you. As a lightning bender, once you have total control over your emotions, you can combine the positive and negative chi around your body to create lightning. To redirect, you must direct that chi (in the form of lightning) through your body and out again. The stuff with the lightning was supported by Iroh's dialogue in the episode of Atla "Bitter Work" and I inferred my thoughts about firebending from those ideas.

Offline Spak-Spang

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Re: The Legend of Korra [Season 4 airs in Jan/Feb for Australia]
« Reply #345 on: January 04, 2015, 11:27:17 PM »
Adrock:  Actually Blood Bending was thought to be a myth...but it was always wrong.  I would put it as a lost "dark art" that water benders knew about however, nobody could do except on full moons, and only the most powerful and talented of benders.  Blood Bending would probably rank up there with Lava bending extremely rare.

It was illegal probably because when people were creating laws Katara reminded people it was a very real power. 

As for Book 3.  I do not feel it has that much filler.  Instead I feel like that needed to spend the time showing that Zuko can be part of the team and that the team slowly began to trust him...it was a natural process and it worked great. 

My personal opinion is this order:

Book 2: Earth best season.
Book 3:  Fire and Book 1: Air
Book 3: Change
Book 2: Spirits
Book 4: Balance
Book 1: Water

I think book 1 is interesting but weak.  The fire nation seems overly powerful and all the other nations look and feel weak.  The battle on the Northern Water Tribe was pretty silly in its one-sided nature.  And honestly, Water should have the advantage over fire in almost every aspect of that battle. 

Other than book 1 I think the original series is head and shoulders better than Korra.  However, Korra did some really cool things.  Spirits may be one of my least favorite seasons, but at least it expanded the Avatar mythos and world with the origin of the first Avatar.  However, I think Korra had the 2 best villains of the entire show with  The Red Lotus/Zaheer and  Amon.  I personally don't see how Amon isn't interesting.  First you have a villain that can take away your bending which the show uses quite effectively as an analog for rape.  But, also his personal manipulation of a cause against bending (which actually had some good points and good fears) was fun. 

To me Korra showed the world getting more complicated, and that there was no clear cut villains just because they are "EVIL" anymore.  And that politics pull you towards decisions and actions you don't agree with.  I loved that aspect of the show.  Expectations vs. Realities.  Korra is a more mature and focused show in that regard.

Offline ObbyDent

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Re: The Legend of Korra [Season 4 airs in Jan/Feb for Australia]
« Reply #346 on: January 05, 2015, 12:12:15 AM »
Oh, and there's only one filler episode of Avatar: "The Great Divide". Every other episode introduces a character, a concept, furthers the character's development, or furthers the development of an idea. The episodes claimed to be "filler" in Season 3 of Avatar is actually one of the above in my list. Filler, by definition, does none of those things.

Offline Adrock

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Re: The Legend of Korra [Season 4 airs in Jan/Feb for Australia]
« Reply #347 on: January 05, 2015, 07:16:03 AM »
Ehh, I consider filler to be anything that is largely unnecessary to a story. You mentioned The Great Divide, but even then, Team Avatar had to cross that canyon, all the stuff with the feuding tribes surrounding that is extra. Filler doesn't have to be entire episodes. Looking at the episode list of Book Three: Fire, only The Awkening, Sokka's Master, and The Avatar and the Fire Lord strike me as imperative before The Day of the Black Sun Part One: The Invasion. The rest have bits of importance that could have been condensed. Besides Nightmares and Daydreams (which, looking back now, may be my least favorite episode in Avatar: The Last Airbender) and most of both The Headband and The Beach, I enjoyed those early third season episodes. They're fun filler but filler nonetheless. The Runaway is mostly pointless in the grand scheme of show's arc, but it's one of my favorite episodes if only because Toph is just A+ throughout.

I know it seems like I'm being hard on The Puppetmaster, but I actually consider it to be a really good episode. However, it still doesn't add much to the overall story. Slightly change one or two scenes in The Southern Raiders (namely when Katara bloodbends Yon Rha) and The Puppetmaster is rendered entirely extraneous. Good episode, just unnecessary.

Don't take the filler comment to be a serious condemnation of the show. Every show has filler. I ask that you take the comment in context. Book Three: Fire and Book Three: Change are on pretty even ground as far as I'm concerned. If I absolutely had to pick something in order to give one an edge over the other, it's the filler portions. Still, these things aren't set in stone. Ask me what my favorite food is at the beginning and end of the week and I may give you a different answer. The same applies here. The filler content is what I used to ultimately separate Book Three: Fire and Book Three: Change, but like I said in the previous post, I go back and forth between them.

Offline ObbyDent

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Re: The Legend of Korra [Season 4 airs in Jan/Feb for Australia]
« Reply #348 on: January 05, 2015, 04:44:07 PM »
I actually largely agree with the top of your list. Mind you, I enjoy them all, so its like forcing me to choose between my children.

1. Book Two: Earth
2. Book Three: Change
3. Book Three: Fire
4. Book One: Air
5. Book One: Water
6. Book Four: Balance
7. Book Two: Spirits

Offline azeke

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Re: The Legend of Korra [Season 4 airs in Jan/Feb for Australia]
« Reply #349 on: January 06, 2015, 02:12:10 AM »
Good discussion here, guys.

On re-watchings, i think, Book Water becomes much better (despite rather bad first six episodes). A string of episodes in the middle starting from Storm, Blue Spirit, Bato of the Water Tribe is easily one of the best either of the shows has been, all of them featuring ATLA's trademark balance between character study and kung fu action.

The season 1 finale was no slouch either. I remember sitting in the kitchen, watching the end of the first part of the finale where Zuko carries Aang's body into the blizzard and realizing -- this is the big one.

Book Earth is just perfect. The writing, pacing and arc building was as tight as a diamond -- can't add anything, can't retract anything. Having said that, "waaah i lost Appa bohoo" arc felt a bit too touchy feely for me. In the finale, i literally fell off my stool when Zuko made his choice. It was an amazing moment.

Fire was a major letdown. Rather weak first episodes coupled with bad schedule slips after massive cliffhanger of a season 2 finale (year and a half wait between two seasons). Then was "Day of the Black Sun" and yet another hiatus -- a whole year.

It was ridiculous when some episodes of the second half premiered on DVD before they hit TV. And then they showed the remainder within one week leading to the finale. And then there was a novelization of the finale that also was published before official premiere...

At least finale itself was amazing: fight scenes, music, Zuko and Azula's Agni Kai. Seeing "The End" hit me really hard...

Announcement of Korra a few years later was pure hype, from the very first pic of Korra looking at the city to all details that came from Comic-Con and then the trailer.

The actual series was pretty good and lead up to the finale was great. Actual ending was somewhat disappointing and was still decent enough i felt.

I do agree that resolution to Book Air was weak -- they were trying to make debending feel like a death almost to raise the stakes, and in the finale Korra magically fixes it all by giving everyone bending back, just like that. This cheapened their own scene of Lin's sacrifice.

Season 2 was pretty awful. Teen romance got downright insufferable and the plot was all over the place. Origins two-parter with Wan though was amazing and was the first time Korra got to ATLA level. Actual season 2 finale was stupid. I tend to separate Origins from the rest of the season.

Season 3 was probably the only solid all around season of Korra. Great villain, amazing finale easily on par with ATLA finales. Villain motivation could have been expanded more upon, but it's no biggie.

Season 4 as ObbyDent said was overshadowed by season 3. Most of it Korra spent trying to deal with consequences of s3. It's a shame too, because last season's own storylines and villain could have been good by itself. But alas we got rather underdeveloped villain and a quick resolution to tie up everything left. A tad too fast.

My final rankings would be:

  • ATLA s2 Earth
  • Korra s2 Origins
  • Korra s3 Change
  • ATLA s1 Water (Blue Spirit is my favourite episode ever)
  • ATLA s3 Fire
  • Korra s4 Balance
  • Korra s1 Air
  • Korra s2 Spirits (without Origins two-parter)


This series has been a huge part of my life and i am grateful for it. Sure, neither shows are "perfect" perfect but overall it has been an amazing ride and ATLA is probably my favorite anything in any media or genre.
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