Author Topic: Lulzsec has been taken down  (Read 34397 times)

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Offline ShyGuy

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« Last Edit: March 13, 2012, 11:55:17 AM by MegaByte »

Offline Chozo Ghost

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Re: Lulzsec has been taken down
« Reply #1 on: March 06, 2012, 11:43:30 AM »
Its fun to think that he turned on them for the "Lulz", but really he probably just did it for a reduced sentence to save his own skin.
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Offline ShyGuy

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Re: Lulzsec has been taken down
« Reply #2 on: March 06, 2012, 11:56:36 AM »
If Morari doesn't post today, we'll know what happened.

Offline ShyGuy

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Re: Lulzsec has been taken down
« Reply #3 on: March 07, 2012, 01:16:10 AM »
Seriously, Morari hasn't posted all day, I think he was a member of Lulzsec.

Offline broodwars

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Re: Lulzsec has been taken down
« Reply #4 on: March 07, 2012, 01:18:15 AM »
And there was much rejoicing, and the way this group was taken down makes it all the more so.  It's nice to see these kind of hackers publicly humiliated (which probably does far more to deter hackers than merely arresting one or two once in a while)...for once.
« Last Edit: March 07, 2012, 01:21:34 AM by broodwars »
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Offline S-U-P-E-R

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Re: Lulzsec has been taken down
« Reply #5 on: March 07, 2012, 02:28:29 AM »
And there was much rejoicing, and the way this group was taken down makes it all the more so.  It's nice to see these kind of hackers publicly humiliated (which probably does far more to deter hackers than merely arresting one or two once in a while)...for once.
booooooooooooo. All their targets had it coming and I hope other hackers are more careful in the future!

Offline broodwars

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Re: Lulzsec has been taken down
« Reply #6 on: March 07, 2012, 02:45:57 AM »
And there was much rejoicing, and the way this group was taken down makes it all the more so.  It's nice to see these kind of hackers publicly humiliated (which probably does far more to deter hackers than merely arresting one or two once in a while)...for once.
booooooooooooo. All their targets had it coming and I hope other hackers are more careful in the future!

We have a system of laws for a reason.  You can't just do whatever you want because you believe the people you're doing it to deserved it.  Why don't we just let all the murderers on death row go free?  How about all the rapists and child molesters as well while we're at it?  After all, most of them probably believed their "targets had it coming"?

You break the law, you go to jail.  If you don't like the law, you fight to have it changed.  That's how it should be.  It's not a perfect system and there's been and there probably still is corruption in it, but it's the best one we have and it's worth fighting for.

And by the way, considering how quickly the leader of this "principled" group "fighting against The Man" gave up his followers, apparently his cause wasn't so "Just" after all.  And before you bring up that he was doing it so his kids could still have their father, bear in mind that if he was a real father he wouldn't be putting his kids at risk by doing all that illegal activity to begin with.  Someone who's willing to do that has no sympathy from me.
« Last Edit: March 07, 2012, 02:54:19 AM by broodwars »
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Offline S-U-P-E-R

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Re: Lulzsec has been taken down
« Reply #7 on: March 07, 2012, 03:56:43 AM »
One has not only a legal but a moral responsibility to obey just laws. Conversely one has a moral responsibility to disobey unjust laws.

Do I think laws effectively written by large money interests are unjust? Yep.

Quote
Why don't we just let all the murderers on death row go free?  How about all the rapists and child molesters as well while we're at it?  After all, most of them probably believed their "targets had it coming"?
lol nice strawman

Offline broodwars

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Re: Lulzsec has been taken down
« Reply #8 on: March 07, 2012, 04:08:01 AM »
Quote
Why don't we just let all the murderers on death row go free?  How about all the rapists and child molesters as well while we're at it?  After all, most of them probably believed their "targets had it coming"?
lol nice strawman

It was crude but necessary to make my point.  The concept of "I think they have it coming so I can do whatever I want to them" is so spectacularly vague and morally suspect that it necessitated some extreme examples.

Everything in our government has a check and balance.  If those laws you despise so much really were so "unjust", they'd be shot down by the courts (which they continually do). If you feel our lawmakers or judges are corrupt, whose fault would that be....oh yes, that would be the fault of your typical idiot voter who put the scum into office, and then continually re-elects the scum because they're too lazy to research the issues and their candidates.  But I'm sure it all sounds much better blaming the system instead of the people whose job it is to watchdog their lawmakers: the voters.  It's the job of the Press as well, but sadly the vast majority of that industry has chosen to work along party lines so they can't be depended upon.

If you don't like the system, do your due diligence and elect people who aren't corrupt scum to represent you.  Otherwise, you deserve what you get.   And that goes for all political parties, by the way.  But of course, it's never your lawmakers that are the problem.  Your lawmakers, naturally, are decent and honorable people who only have your best interests at heart.  It's everyone else's lawmakers that are the problem, so it's ok for you to just send those people continually back to Washington and not perform your duty as a responsible citizen.

And I think that's as much of a political rant as I'll dare to do.
« Last Edit: March 07, 2012, 04:28:26 AM by broodwars »
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Offline S-U-P-E-R

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Re: Lulzsec has been taken down
« Reply #9 on: March 07, 2012, 04:26:27 AM »
This thread is getting dangerously close to political posting but I think we can agree to keep this discussion nonpartisan at least :X
 
Quote
Everything in our government has a check and balance.  If those laws you despise so much really were so "unjust", they'd be shot down by the courts.  If you feel our lawmakers or judges are corrupt, whose fault would that be....oh yes, that would be the fault of your typical idiot voter who put the scum into office, and then continually re-elects the scum because they're too lazy to research the issues and their candidates.  But I'm sure it all sounds much better blaming the system instead of the people whose job it is to watchdog their lawmakers: the voters.  It's the job of the Press as well, but sadly the vast majority of that industry has chosen to work along party lines so they can't be depended upon.

The system works in theory, but in practice it does break down on occasion (see: the MLK Jr quote in my first post. Did you catch it?). To mount any kind of campaign at all in the U.S., at least at the state level, you have to be beholden to all sorts of special interests/campaign contributors. There's really no way around it and it's impossible to have a shot if you don't. I'm getting that we have a lot of common ground here in that we agree a great deal of U.S. voters and press are bad at their job. I think we have a tyranny-of-the-majority situation here, but I don't know if you'll agree with me on that. Especially since I think money is standing in for people a little too much.
 
Also a lot of judges in the U.S. are appointed and not elected depending on the state and level.

Offline broodwars

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Re: Lulzsec has been taken down
« Reply #10 on: March 07, 2012, 04:52:16 AM »
This thread is getting dangerously close to political posting but I think we can agree to keep this discussion nonpartisan at least :X

Oh, I don't think we're going to have a partisan argument here.  I can find plenty to dislike about all the political parties, including my own (officially registered) Libertarian party.  It doesn't sound like you're particularly fond of such things either, so I think we'll get along fine there.
 
Quote
The system works in theory, but in practice it does break down on occasion (see: the MLK Jr quote in my first post. Did you catch it?). To mount any kind of campaign at all in the U.S., at least at the state level, you have to be beholden to all sorts of special interests/campaign contributors. There's really no way around it and it's impossible to have a shot if you don't.

Actually, I did miss the MLK Jr. quote, and didn't see what I assume it is until I started looking for unquoted, unlinked sentences.

Well, while what you say is undoubtedly true to a great extent, there have been notable exceptions.  For example, look at the Tea Party.  They were a bunch of really angry citizens fed up with corruption within the political system who fought to produce change.  They organized, held rallies, and got their movement well-known on TV and radio.  Eventually, they became a strong enough political force that they managed to elect politicians that held their ideals.  Regardless of whether you agree with those ideals, they proved that it was possible.  To a much lesser extent, the Occupy folks accomplished a similar goal, though I have major issues with how they went about it.  Still, they also managed to get their issues circulated into the public consciousness, so that's a victory for "the little guy" in its own way.

When enough people give a damn and are willing to fight for their ideals, change can be produced without the money and the "entangling alliances" as it were.  But, once again, it requires that people care beyond the things that immediately affect their everyday lives.

Quote
I'm getting that we have a lot of common ground here in that we agree a great deal of U.S. voters and press are bad at their job. I think we have a tyranny-of-the-majority situation here, but I don't know if you'll agree with me on that. Especially since I think money is standing in for people a little too much.

I think we might disagree on what the "majority" is that is the tyranny, but I do agree that there is one.  For me, it's the tyranny of the uneducated, uncaring voter who either don't vote or vote only for what will immediately benefit them in the short-term.  Money takes hold in the political system because those giving it know the public cares so little that they can get away with it.  I suspect you believe otherwise.  You brought one quote, and I'll see you two more from Winston Churchill:

"The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter."

and

"Democracy is the worst form of government except for all those others that have been tried."
 
Quote
Also a lot of judges in the U.S. are appointed and not elected depending on the state and level.

Ah, but the people do elect the people who appoint the judges, so there is some indirect responsibility there on the voter.   ;)
« Last Edit: March 07, 2012, 05:06:51 AM by broodwars »
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Offline S-U-P-E-R

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Re: Lulzsec has been taken down
« Reply #11 on: March 07, 2012, 05:06:18 AM »
Okay. I like that post. We're getting along here. We're doing it!

But I've gotta pose this question: at what point would you approve of civil disobedience?

Offline broodwars

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Re: Lulzsec has been taken down
« Reply #12 on: March 07, 2012, 05:12:48 AM »
But I've gotta pose this question: at what point would you approve of civil disobedience?

Let me put it this way: I believe the US Declaration of Independence states that the people have a right to start a revolution against their government if it becomes corrupt and dictatorial.  I am a firm believer in the political values of the Founding Fathers.  When it comes to civil disobedience, the cause had better be worthy and the injustice clear. 

Groups like Lulzsec and Anonymous do what they do because they're bored and they think they can get away with it, not because they truly have a great cause they believe in.  There's a difference between disagreeing with a law because it's unjust and disagreeing with it because you think it takes away your fun, and that's where I draw the line with a lot of hackers.  That's what differentiates someone like Rosa Parks with Anonymous in my eyes.
« Last Edit: March 07, 2012, 05:19:14 AM by broodwars »
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Offline S-U-P-E-R

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Re: Lulzsec has been taken down
« Reply #13 on: March 07, 2012, 06:47:19 AM »
I think a number of anons do what they do for legimate reasons. They certainly claim to care about things on their various twitters/blogs. We'll just have to agree to disagree I think!

Offline NWR_insanolord

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Re: Lulzsec has been taken down
« Reply #14 on: March 07, 2012, 06:51:20 AM »
SUPER, I've got to say I've lost a lot of respect for you after seeing you having a civil, reasonable, level-headed discussion in this thread.
Insanolord is a terrible moderator.

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Offline S-U-P-E-R

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Re: Lulzsec has been taken down
« Reply #15 on: March 07, 2012, 08:23:06 AM »
SUPER, I've got to say I've lost a lot of respect for you after seeing you having a civil, reasonable, level-headed discussion in this thread.
don't say that, I'm so close to starting an OWS vs tea party shitfest. SO CLOSE.

Offline Morari

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Re: Lulzsec has been taken down
« Reply #16 on: March 07, 2012, 10:21:24 AM »
Seriously, Morari hasn't posted all day, I think he was a member of Lulzsec.
I guess we'll never know now...

Why don't we just let all the murderers on death row go free?
We sure do seem to have a lot of U.S. soldiers walking around amongst us freely...



It's an Orwellian coup if ever there was one. Fund and run a counter-culture group with the goals of attracting young revolutionists? I just hope that next time, they actually call it The Brotherhood.

Anyone that's legitimately joyous over this is living in a bubble that their corporate masters have constructed around them. Stop fighting to defend the very system that keeps you enslaved. Open your eyes, wake up, and face the truth. You can't fight corruption within the confines of the law, as the laws themselves only exist to empower and embolden the corrupt.


« Last Edit: March 07, 2012, 10:27:27 AM by Morari »
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Offline Ian Sane

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Re: Lulzsec has been taken down
« Reply #17 on: March 07, 2012, 12:08:52 PM »
When Anonymous hacked Sony they stole the credit card numbers of innocent people.  That could have been my credit card number.  I only follow laws because I either morally agree with it or the oppression of the law is so minor that it is not worth my while to make trouble for myself over it.  But I don't side with anyone who brings innocent people into it.  That's terrorism.  Fight the people that are actually responsible.  I do not subscribe to the idea that anyone that isn't with you is against you.

Offline nickmitch

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Re: Lulzsec has been taken down
« Reply #18 on: March 07, 2012, 12:44:34 PM »
Weren't they stealing credit card info to spite Sony? I mean, the real inconvenience falls on to the people who need to get new cards, but that does put a lot of egg on Sony's face. They weren't stealing credit card info to buy ****, were they?

Not that I'm condoning it; I'm just saying the intent wasn't to harm the innocent. Though it did.
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Offline ShyGuy

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Re: Lulzsec has been taken down
« Reply #19 on: March 07, 2012, 01:30:49 PM »
Hey, they haven't captured Morari yet!

You dirty liberals have turned my Lulzsec thread into a political thread!

UNCLEBOB LOCK THIS THREAD BEFORE I DROP SOME KNOWLEDGE

Offline Chozo Ghost

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Re: ShyGuy's Official Politics Party Thread
« Reply #20 on: March 07, 2012, 02:23:44 PM »
When Anonymous hacked Sony they stole the credit card numbers of innocent people.  That could have been my credit card number.  I only follow laws because I either morally agree with it or the oppression of the law is so minor that it is not worth my while to make trouble for myself over it.  But I don't side with anyone who brings innocent people into it.  That's terrorism.  Fight the people that are actually responsible.  I do not subscribe to the idea that anyone that isn't with you is against you.

It is also Sony's fault for putting innocent people in harms way by having such a shitty level of security of customer personal information that allowed the whole thing to happen in the first place.
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Offline S-U-P-E-R

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Re: ShyGuy's Official Politics Party Thread
« Reply #21 on: March 13, 2012, 09:22:03 AM »
YAY THE THREAD IS BACK. Please move it to the funhouse post-haste!

Also anybody that doesn't agree 100% with my political views is a fascist


Offline oohhboy

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Re: Lulzsec has been taken down
« Reply #22 on: March 13, 2012, 05:09:12 PM »
I am staying out of this one, but I will leave this, that and this here. Asinine strawmen are unwelcome. Also Rosa Parkers was not remotely the first, she simply got the most attention. In fact she was a 100 years late or nine months late since the first person to take the stand on the same buses was "Inconvenient".

I will stay out of this thread seeing super doing a swell job. ^^^^I am with stupid.

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« Last Edit: March 13, 2012, 06:05:05 PM by oohhboy »
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Offline BranDonk Kong

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Re: Lulzsec has been taken down
« Reply #23 on: March 13, 2012, 05:59:14 PM »
Wow, her name was Rosa Parks. You're racist.
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Offline oohhboy

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Re: Lulzsec has been taken down
« Reply #24 on: March 13, 2012, 06:04:32 PM »
Oops, too many cat drugs.
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