Author Topic: Lulzsec has been taken down  (Read 34417 times)

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Offline ShyGuy

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Re: Lulzsec has been taken down
« Reply #25 on: March 13, 2012, 06:44:54 PM »
It's time to trash bag the fighting games thread...



Offline S-U-P-E-R

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Re: Lulzsec has been taken down
« Reply #26 on: March 13, 2012, 08:13:20 PM »

Offline Chozo Ghost

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Re: Lulzsec has been taken down
« Reply #27 on: March 14, 2012, 12:07:27 PM »
So Rosa Parks wasn't actually the first? Its amazing how you can learn stuff on this forum even when you don't expect it.
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Offline Morari

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Re: Lulzsec has been taken down
« Reply #28 on: March 14, 2012, 01:10:20 PM »
Oh, and by the way, Christoper Columbus didn't discover North America. Unless you count con-men mistakenly running ashore, then committing genocide as "discovery".
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Offline Chozo Ghost

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Re: Lulzsec has been taken down
« Reply #29 on: March 14, 2012, 07:07:18 PM »
Oh, and by the way, Christoper Columbus didn't discover North America. Unless you count con-men mistakenly running ashore, then committing genocide as "discovery".

Most discoveries are accidental, and that's what Colombus' discovery was. He believed until his death what he had reached was the Orient. It was a good thing the Americas just happened to be there, because Columbus had miscalculated the circumference of the Earth and without America being there him and his crew would have starved to death long before reaching the Orient as he had intended.

But he wasn't even the first white man to discover America. It has been proven the Vikings had him beat by about 500 years, and its also possible others had made it here also but those are as yet unproven. Nevertheless, Columbus' discovery was still significant because the discovery made by the vikings was unknown or forgotten.
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Offline NWR_insanolord

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Re: Lulzsec has been taken down
« Reply #30 on: March 14, 2012, 07:18:11 PM »
Call it whatever you want, Columbus' journey was hugely significant because it made Europe aware of the existence of the Americas. The oppression of the indigenous people, as horrible as it was, was pretty much inevitable, so it's not really fair to place the blame on Columbus.
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Offline S-U-P-E-R

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Re: Lulzsec has been taken down
« Reply #31 on: March 14, 2012, 08:29:36 PM »
christopher columbus was a monster that deliberately murdered every indian on the continent with his bare hands. 9/11 was an inside job. google ron paul. kill your parents

Offline BlackNMild2k1

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Re: Lulzsec has been taken down
« Reply #32 on: March 14, 2012, 09:08:21 PM »
christopher columbus was a monster that deliberately murdered every indian on the continent with his bare hands. 9/11 was an inside job. google ron paul. kill your parents

Offline Morari

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Re: Lulzsec has been taken down
« Reply #33 on: March 14, 2012, 10:43:05 PM »
The oppression of the indigenous people, as horrible as it was, was pretty much inevitable, so it's not really fair to place the blame on Columbus.

You mean "as horrible as it still is", I assume? The oppression of the Native American persists to this day. Though really... manifest destiny? I assume that black slavery was just another one of those inevitable and unavoidable periods in history, huh? :-\

Columbus was little more than a con artist, siphoning wealth from the Spanish crown. The world was known to be round at the time, and had been for untold ages. The idea that their was a large continent east of Europe was also not new. Columbus did nothing of significance, as you absolutely cannot discover a land that is already densely inhabited. Hell, he wasn't even the first European to hit North America's shores. The Vikings were all about it in the eleventh century, and even Italy's own Johnathan Cabot made the voyage prior to Columbus.

Columbus deserves plenty of blame, as the published journals of his crew will attest to. He was an absolutely vile man, even before he decimated entire islands' populations. European fielded censuses show that upward of 90% of the Taino people had been killed only 50 years after Columbus' landing. While the effects of European filth--such as small pox and syphilis--would have been unknown, the inhumane treatment of friendly natives was an altogether different subject. His second voyage to "India" was little more than an invasion, with the intent of appointing himself to power. This resulted in outright slavery and direct genocide. Of course, the Spanish was all about this, given the tributes of gold and cotton they were sure to receive from abroad.

The very notion that America has instituted and celebrated something as awful as "Columbus Day" should tell you everything you need to know about the country. This is a nation that is proud of its bloody heritage. It celebrates it every October, it carves it into mountains in the sacred Black Hills of South Dakota. A history of lies, theft, broken treaties, and outright genocide. It should be something that every American is ashamed of. Yet it continues this very moment through the corruption of the corrupt Bureau of Indian Affairs.

Columbus gets a national holiday because he was too stupid to find India. We push all of the negativity aside so that we can instead celebrate "European Accomplishment" instead. Well then, I propose that we institute a Hitler Day. Think about it... Hitler caused the Volkswagen to be created, after all, and the Autobahn. His leadership of Germany led to jet propulsion, significant advances in rocket telemetry, laid the foundation for genetic engineering. Why not celebrate his bona fide accomplishments on behalf of humanity rather than "dwelling" so persistently on the genocidal by-products of his policies?
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Offline NWR_insanolord

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Re: Lulzsec has been taken down
« Reply #34 on: March 14, 2012, 11:11:37 PM »
With how much land and how many resources were there in the Americas and how much more powerful the Europeans were than the natives, it was only a matter of time before they were overrun. I'm not defending it; it was horrible, and it didn't need to be as bloody and harsh as it was, but there's no way it wasn't going to happen. I wouldn't necessarily put slavery in the same category.

And you definitely can discover land that's already inhabited, in at least some sense of the word. If we found a planet with intelligent life somewhere in the galaxy would you say that we didn't discover it because those lifeforms already knew they were there?
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Offline Caliban

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Re: Lulzsec has been taken down
« Reply #35 on: March 14, 2012, 11:13:42 PM »
But he wasn't even the first white man to discover America. It has been proven the Vikings had him beat by about 500 years, and its also possible others had made it here also but those are as yet unproven. Nevertheless, Columbus' discovery was still significant because the discovery made by the vikings was unknown or forgotten.

I've seen coast maps made by Portuguese Templars dated to the 1300s. Then again the Templars were a secret organization, and so the public did not know of their "discoveries".

And besides, Columbus was nothing compared to what others had done in the era of discoveries.

Offline S-U-P-E-R

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Re: Lulzsec has been taken down
« Reply #36 on: March 14, 2012, 11:30:11 PM »
I heard it's still technically legal to shoot indians from a covered wagon in my state

Offline Chozo Ghost

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Re: Lulzsec has been taken down
« Reply #37 on: March 15, 2012, 12:05:09 AM »
Columbus was an asshole in his own right. I know he isn't to blame for everything Europeans did in the New World, but he himself enslaved and murdered the natives directly, both during his voyages and later when he was the governor of Hispaniola. He established the precedent that was to follow.

Quote
but there's no way it wasn't going to happen.

The Spanish were the worst of all in the treatment of natives, and the rest weren't exactly saints either, but the French more or less just traded with the natives for furs and stuff. They even allied with the natives to fight the British during the French and Indian war, which you can see in the movie the last of the Mohicans. So I disagree that it "had to happen". If England and Spain had been as benevolent to the natives as France was then there would probably be 10 times as many natives around today as there are.

Another good example would have been Japan, which was on a medieval pre-industrial level when European traders arrived. Did Europeans conquer Japan and enslave the Japanese and force them to convert to European religions? No. Actually what happened was Admiral Perry helped them figure out how to build railroads and things like that of their own, so Japan became the industrialized nation it is today.

There is no reason Europeans couldn't have just traded with the Aztecs and Maya and so forth and showed them how to make firearms and build factories and things like that. That was what happened with Japan, after all.
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Offline NWR_insanolord

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Re: Lulzsec has been taken down
« Reply #38 on: March 15, 2012, 12:11:09 AM »
Japan is small and resource-poor. It's an entirely different situation. And what I meant was inevitable was European nations stealing the land and the resources. The bloodshed could have been a lot less, and may very well have been if someone besides the Spanish had been the first to go in.
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Offline ShyGuy

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Re: Lulzsec has been taken down
« Reply #39 on: March 15, 2012, 12:47:13 AM »
Does Hitler Day fall on a weekend this year? I can't take anymore time off work, but y'know, HITLER DAY. You gotta do what you gotta do.

Offline NWR_insanolord

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Re: Lulzsec has been taken down
« Reply #40 on: March 15, 2012, 01:15:19 AM »
Well if it's anything like Columbus day, regardless of when it falls it's celebrated on a Monday.
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Offline Chozo Ghost

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Re: Lulzsec has been taken down
« Reply #41 on: March 15, 2012, 01:24:26 AM »
Hitler Day should be celebrated on April 30th, because that was the day he committed suicide. That deserves celebrating, right? The holiday could be kinda like Guy Fawkes day where we burn Hitler effigies.
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Offline Sarail

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Re: Lulzsec has been taken down
« Reply #42 on: March 15, 2012, 01:24:50 AM »
Well, that's that then. Columbus Day is no more to me. I shall be celebrating Hitler Day on that Monday. G'day, everyone. G'day, indeed.
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Offline UncleBob

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Re: Lulzsec has been taken down
« Reply #43 on: March 15, 2012, 01:26:10 AM »
Hitler Day should be celebrated on April 30th

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Offline ShyGuy

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Re: Lulzsec has been taken down
« Reply #44 on: March 15, 2012, 01:33:11 AM »
Aww UncleBob, sometimes we think of you as NWR's own little Hitler.



Offline UncleBob

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Re: Lulzsec has been taken down
« Reply #45 on: March 15, 2012, 01:35:39 AM »
Just some random guy on the internet who has a different opinion of games than you.



Offline BlackNMild2k1

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Re: Lulzsec has been taken down
« Reply #46 on: March 15, 2012, 02:11:26 AM »
Aww UncleBob, sometimes we think of you as NWR's own little Hitler.



Offline BranDonk Kong

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Re: Lulzsec has been taken down
« Reply #47 on: March 15, 2012, 10:48:31 PM »
But...black slavery started...in Africa...way before anyone ever even thought of trying to find a new route to India...
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Offline Chozo Ghost

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Re: Lulzsec has been taken down
« Reply #48 on: March 16, 2012, 12:25:33 AM »
But...black slavery started...in Africa...way before anyone ever even thought of trying to find a new route to India...

Slavery existed all over the world since before recorded history. The ancient Romans, Greeks,and Egyptians all practiced it as well. The last country in the world to abolish slavery was Saudi Arabia in the 1960s. That's not to say it doesn't still exist, but at least now its illegal everywhere.
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Offline TJ Spyke

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Re: Lulzsec has been taken down
« Reply #49 on: March 16, 2012, 12:34:29 AM »
That's not to say it doesn't still exist, but at least now its illegal everywhere.

Ironically, there are estimates that there are more slaves now than at any point in history even though it is technically illegal in every country.
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