Topic: Battlefield Could Have Been Exclusive to GameCube

[BlackNMild2k1]

Their wireless is really slow too.

I'm not sure if better antennas fix that issue, but they really need to speed up the wireless connection. Waiting for a scene skip to reload in Netflix is sometimes like watching the clock before the bell rings in class.... it takes forever!!!

Online on the Wii is a very disjointed and broken system that is in desperate need of unification at an OS level. 3DS is a peek at whats to come (has that Nov. update happened yet? I wouldn't know since I haven't turned my 3DS on since I put Zelda II on hold 1-2 months ago) since they put an actual Universal OS at the core of the system, and I suspect that Wii U will address most concerns we have with the current state of affairs only to replace them with some other minor ones.


p.s. I'm sure there are plenty of people talking about how 360 is doing so well now because everyone is rebuying the system so that they have a version that won't RRoD on them 6 weeks after purchase(and then again 6 weeks after refurbuish... and then again and again...). Fortunately for MS, their library of games (& XBL) is just too good for most gamers to give up on once they've already invested the time and $$$

[NWR_insanolord]

You should turn on your 3DS and put Mario 3D Land in it. It's fantastic, and in the same league as EAD Tokyo's other two Mario games.

[TJ Spyke]

EAD Tokyo has actually made 3 Mario platforming games (meaning not counting stuff like Mario Kart Wii): Super Mario Galaxy, Super Mario Galaxy 2, New Super Mario Bros. Wii. I really want Super Mario Land 3D Land, but can't afford to spend money on video games right now.

[Chocobo_Rider]

EDIT: Nevermind, I think we've all made up our minds here.

I'm going to keep enjoying Nintendo's online functionality, and if some of you find it unacceptable, you certainly have that option of  buying a PS3 or 360 with an XBL subscription.

As long as people are ENJOYING gaming instead of just complaining about it... that's what's important.

[BlackNMild2k1]

PRE-EDIT: So what changes would you make?

I'll assume that was originally directed at me so I'll just link you to here
http://www.nintendoworldreport.com/forums/index.php?topic=34755.msg680114#msg680114

it's more or less wrapped up in the OP, but I'm sure there is plenty of room to get specific if you like.




edit: But I do have a question NinSage, have you played online through Steam, XBL or PSN? Anything other than a Nintendo system?

[NWR_insanolord]

EDIT: Nevermind, I think we've all made up our minds here.

I'm going to keep enjoying Nintendo's online functionality, and if some of you find it unacceptable, you certainly have that option of  buying a PS3 or 360 with an XBL subscription.

As long as people are ENJOYING gaming instead of just complaining about it... that's what's important.

I already own a PS3 and a 360 with an Xbox Live subscription. That's how I know how bad Nintendo's service is in comparison, and why I want them to improve it.

Enjoying and complaining aren't mutually exclusive. I am absolutely loving Super Mario 3D Land right now, but that doesn't mean I can't also complain about Nintendo's online strategy. There are choices besides blind fanboyism and total hatred.

EAD Tokyo has actually made 3 Mario platforming games (meaning not counting stuff like Mario Kart Wii): Super Mario Galaxy, Super Mario Galaxy 2, New Super Mario Bros. Wii. I really want Super Mario Land 3D Land, but can't afford to spend money on video games right now.

I'm fairly certain EAD Tokyo was not involved (at least in any significant way) in the making of New Super Mario Bros. Wii, and the always-reliable Wikipedia backs me up on that.

[TJ Spyke]

You are right, I was checking a list of games from EAD and they combined all EAD studios (including Tokyo).

[Chocobo_Rider]

BNM - It was intended for Insano, but, as I said, I think everyone made their mind up already.

I play on Steam, yes, and having a dear gamer friend who won't touch Nintendo has forced me to play a lot of online PS3.  Honestly, they all play exactly the same.  The ONE game that was unplayable online?

*drum roll please*...... Street Fighter 4 on PS3.  It was pathetic.  IF we got a match connected, AND the other person didn't opt out of the match due because he didn't like our "n00b" status, it was a slide-show of a battle.

Thankfully, MvC3 has remedied that situation.  In my experience anyway.

Also, I've wanted to play my PSP MH game online, but oh, Sony won't let me unless I do ad hoc through a PS3.  Yes, let us all cast stones at Nintendo! At least my DS doesn't REQUIRE another purchase to get online.

Insano -

Never said enjoying and complaining are mutually exclusive.  But if you're complaining substantially more than enjoying? Guess what? YOU'RE DOING IT WRONG!  Gaming is about fun, entertainment, the range of emotions it can inspire and the community of people involved.  Why do we let the media bring the headaches of the industry to us?

I've never tried try write any of you off as completely on thing or another.  My stance has always been that your enjoyment would BENEFIT from a ratio adjustment.  However, I know how easy it is to defend one's pride by writing that off as a "blind fandboyism" just because I really enjoy games a lot more than I complain about them (did you miss the part where I hate friend codes?).

Honestly, tell me how a "blind fanboy" can spend so much time, money, love and respect on Sony and Sega devices? And if I was so "blind" as to enjoy ALL companies, wouldn't that just mean I've found the right hobby?

I speak in defense of Nintendo because I see them get bashed CONSTANTLY (not really here, of course) and I just want things to be EQUAL.  Anyone attributing battle-lines to those philosophies or thinks I want people to find Nintendo SUPERIOR has strictly not-listened closely enough.  In this case, the only point I was illustrating was that if Sony/MS can make mistakes and people can be understanding of that reality of life, why is it so foreign a concept to ask the same for Nintendo?

[NWR_insanolord]

Here's a thought: why don't you move your crusade against this kind of constant Nintendo bashing to a place where it's actually happening. You keep saying that you're not talking about this site, but you still go on and on about it.

[Chocobo_Rider]

Because years ago I was doing just that.  Those places are all lost causes.  I'm sure you've been part of the discussions where I've detailed my bannings from Kotaku for asking why a story about a toddler wearing wiimote sleeves on her feet was "newsworthy" and for correcting Brian Ashcraft's twisting of facts regarding the (then unnamed) 3DS.

So, now I try to hang out with people who aren't caught up in the "hardcore" wars.  I hang out with the good people here, at my site, where me and several others have put our time and effort where our mouths are, at Negative World, and I glean news from all the other sites without involving myself in conversations from people who don't want to listen.

When a small fire like moaning about a completely functional, if imperfect, online service that is not nickel and dime-ing its uses pops up? I'll share my thoughts and if they are make enough sense to make people stop and question WHY they are dissatisfied? That's a mission accomplished.

Which gets back to my prior point, what good does it do to always focus on those imperfections? Game companies may be aware of the buzz online.  But none of them are letting us guide their decisions.  People talk as if constant complaints are for the good of the company they "love."  In that case, stop bringing everyone down and write the company a physical letter.  Write them once a week.  It will do a LOT more good than fueling a sub-culture that no game company wants to associate with.

So again, to clarify, anyone and everyone can voice their dissatisfaction.  But logic would dictate that A) we CHOOSE this hobby, if it gives you more pain than pleasure, you're doing something wrong and B) there's no practical benefit.  In fact, the more we let the industry and the media dictate our "feelings" the further we go down this rabbit whole of no more free map packs and games with padded play times for the sake of review numbers (it's a 1,000 game!... with 10 hours of content).  Call me crazy, but I think we can do better than that.

[ShyGuy]

Keep up the good fight NinSage.

[LittleIrves]

Nothing to add here...
But I just finished Ghost Trick. Wow that was an awesome ending.

[ejamer]

Nothing to add here...
But I just finished Ghost Trick. Wow that was an awesome ending.

A bunch of people complained about the ending of Ghost Trick, but I really liked it. More people should play that game!


Battlefield (and online gaming in general) isn't really my thing. Certainly would be nice if Nintendo could figure out how to improve their online infrastructure for the future though - lots of people care a lot more than I do about online options.

[Ceric]

Hey, I'll Bite.

...
question WHY they are dissatisfied?
...

Why I'm not fond of the online experience on Wii.
Can't speak about Live.  Though I'm going to start with the elephant in the room the Wii Shop.  It is horribly horribly slow for the amount of information it gives.  It is also very layered.  This is in comparison to the only good faith comparable I can make which is PSN.  Preview channel same problem except the layering.

Friend notifications.  They don't exists.  Granted I don't use the Toast on my PS3 very often but, it be nice to know when say Maxi is on playing Monster Hunter to jump in and see if he like to hunt together.

Sort of related Wiispeak is terrible.

3DS
eShop slow for what it does.  I have a 24mb pipe and it takes a while to connect to and open the shop.  Not to mention how long it takes to download anything.

Friend Notifications; Sort of exists but not really.  Though my real beef with that is for some reason or another I can't add friends without being connected to the internet.  Which means I literally have only added UncleBob and Apdude because I keep remembering when I can't get internet for my 3DS. (Like in the car on a trip. Internet on phone can't tether.)

I think you can send messages I'm not really sure.

Those are my biggest gripe.  I would speak to not having a good API for using the networking ability from the anecdotal evidence but, since I don't have access to that type of documentation I'm not going to really say anything about that.  I also don't think they used a very good wireless chip.

[NWR_Neal]

Nothing to add here...
But I just finished Ghost Trick. Wow that was an awesome ending.

Oh man, isn't it so awesome? I love that game.

Side note: I think arguing over who's complaining as opposed to gaming and having fun is kind of pointless. This thread devolved into everyone complaining, so when someone makes a complaint about someone complaining about games more than playing them, it's kind of moot, as they're complaining about people complaining.

You know what I'm looking forward to? Mario Kart 7. I loved the online in Mario Kart Wii. It was one of two or three Wii games I ever really played online.

[Chocobo_Rider]

Ceric -

That's all fair.  And I can understand being disappointed.  But Nintendo has made steps on the notifications and do the interface issues (layout and speed) really disrupt your hobby that much?  What's worse: unnecessarily long download times once or unnecessarily long load times between every segment of PS3/60 games?

All I'm trying to say is, everyone's got imperfections, what's the upside to focusing on one?


Neal -

That would make sense if we were complaining about complaining.  But a even the most casual analysis of any such discussion reveals a somewhat more complex situation.  =P

[broodwars]

do the interface issues (layout and speed) really disrupt your hobby that much?

Yes they do.  When it takes 3-5 minutes to navigate between three screens on the Wii Shop Channel at times, yes it really does disrupt my hobby that much.

What's worse: unnecessarily long download times once or unnecessarily long load times between every segment of PS3/60 games?

You are aware that you're comparing two entirely different things that have nothing to do with each other, right?  And even the best game on the Wii IMO, Xenoblade, has some 15-25 second load times when transitioning between areas.  It's not that big a deal.

How about a nice game of chess? 

[NWR_Neal]

But if you're complaining substantially more than enjoying? Guess what? YOU'RE DOING IT WRONG!

Heed your own advice, dude.

[Ceric]

...
do the interface issues (layout and speed) really disrupt your hobby that much?
...

Yes.

What's worse: unnecessarily long download times once or unnecessarily long load times between every segment of PS3/60 games?

Can't Speak about the 360 but, I can't think of a game that had load times any longer then the Wii that I've played on the PS3.  Definitely not unnecessarily long.  I mean Portal 2 for PS3 takes just as long as it does on the PC.  Actually less if you count starting Steam in that.  That's the best comparison I can make for speed.

All I'm trying to say is, everyone's got imperfections, what's the upside to focusing on one?

Conciseness and Focus of Discussion in a given area.  Losing focus, Loses points and Scatters Understanding.

[BlackNMild2k1]

Ceric -

That's all fair.  And I can understand being disappointed.  But Nintendo has made steps on the notifications and do the interface issues (layout and speed) really disrupt your hobby that much?  What's worse: unnecessarily long download times once or unnecessarily long load times between every segment of PS3/60 games?

All I'm trying to say is, everyone's got imperfections, what's the upside to focusing on one?

Is there really a problem with people wanting more for their time and money when they know there is better out there?

Nintendo has been taking baby steps forward when it comes to online (and many other things) while the competition is taking leaps. Standards have been set and at the very least we want some (if not all) of those things and more on our gaming console of choice.

Xbox set the standard for online console gaming back in 2001. that was 10 years ago. MS have been raising the bar for that standard ever since.
Fast forward to 2011. Nintendo hasn't even attempted to match the 2001 standard until very recently on 3DS. That is 10 years later.

You may be satisfied with the absolute bare minimum of effort being put into your online gaming experience, but other people have come to expect more and Nintendo is more than slow to deliver.

Trying taking your current computer and putting your old 56k modem back in and then come back and surf this site. Chances are that you have gotten so used to your broadband modem loading things so damn quick, that you will rip that 56k modem out and smash it to pieces so you can get back to your cable modem. Nintendo has been holding onto that 56k modem for far too long now. It's time to get with the program and embrace the tech around us.
They don't have to wait till they can reinvent the wheel, just need to build a better car.

[Chocobo_Rider]

Keep in mind, I tried to say hours ago that everyone had made up their own mind on this issue and we should move on!

So...
To all those who find that Nintendo's online unacceptable.  I'm sorry your experience has not been better!

Brood -

If it really takes 3-5 minutes for you to navigate those menus, and you don't get at least 20x that much enjoyment from the game then yea, I guess your hobby isn't treating you so well.  I've yet to experience or even observe such a scenario.

I know load times and download times are not the same technological action.  But they are both waiting that people don't enjoy, right? If they can be patient for multiple mid-game loads, it stands to reason they could be patient for one-time downloads.  That's just what makes sense to me.  You don't have to see it that way.


Neal -

Still apples and oranges.


Ceric -

Care to elaborate? I mean, the download only takes a few minutes, and then you have a game you wanted.  Where does the experience get ruined?

Also, I need you to rephrase that bit on focus.  I don't think anyone could explain what you were trying to say there =P


BNM -

I'm glad you brought up economics.  We do get what we paid for.  The Wii/PS3 have (in my experience) very similar online reliabilities.  The PS3 has more bells and whistles, which is part of why its price tag is so much higher.  The 360 has the best online, but you have to pay extra to use it ... this all seems fair to me.  It's not about "settling" for a 56k modem or some extreme scenario.  It's about what's fair to get in return for what we give.  Nintendo products have online that works. Period.  Could they be better? Sure.  Could Nintendo charge us to make it better? Sure.

Also, Nintendo does take baby steps and the others do take leaps.  Guess what? Leaps require risk and money!! As I just showed, we pay more for those leaps.  It's not like the other companies merely opt to give us more out of the goodness of their hearts.  Also, taking leaps involves risk.  Sony's leap meant a $600 price tag and a console you could fry an egg on.  MS's leap meant RROD's and an online subscription.  Both companies "leaped" at the shiny new concept of DLC and now we pay for that.

~~~

Nintendo simply isn't the lazy, slow-pokes people make them out to be.  Some things they do the bare minimum, but it's always there, it doesn't rip us off and it works (ie: online).  Many other times, they pioneer...

Kinnect, Move, touch-based handhelds, Avatars, PS Home, the analog stick ... when you look at who is usually playing catch-up with who, I just don't see the justification for being dissatisfied with Nintendo's "progress."

Now, if no one has anything new to add, I don't think this conversation needs to go any further.

[BlackNMild2k1]

Neither of MS or Sony's leaps in online have anything to do with their console pricing.

Sony's $600 price tag had nothing to do with PSN and MS's RRoD had nothing to do with Live.

And if you rewind back in the conversation you would remember that Nintendo had been experimenting with online long before Sony or MS even thought about getting into the console business. There is no reason that the competition should decidedly have them out matched in features and consistency when they were the pioneer in the area at one point. There is nothing that Nintendo has done with their online system that even approaches Live nor Steam and they have had a decade to come up with something.

Nintendo may have done good with a game or 2 on the Wii and things are looking up for the 3DS, but they are nowhere near competitive in the online network field (when it comes to consoles) and even Nintendo is aware of this (points back at link provided in a previous post), so I'm not quite sure why you pretend like the problem doesn't exist when Nintendo is actively seeking to rectify this issue and they are not shy about letting us know it.

[Ceric]

...
Ceric -
Care to elaborate? I mean, the download only takes a few minutes, and then you have a game you wanted.  Where does the experience get ruined?
...

As long as I see progress I may be bummed about a game taking a while to load but, that I can understand.  Its the speed of the experience especially since I know what it would take and how long this type of program normally take.  When I start the shop it shouldn't take so long that I start to worry the shop has froze or had an error, which it has on me.  When I go through I shouldn't be able to to go and get a drink when selecting a menu.  Considering how much back and forth I need to do it makes simple task excruciatingly long.  Let me give an analog example:

Your living room and Kitchen are opposite sides of the house.  You have to go through 2 doors to get there, one into the living room one into the kitchen.  Every door in your house takes 30 seconds to open and close automatically.  It takes about 2 minute to walk the length of your house.  In total it take about 3 minutes to go from inside the living room to inside the Kitchen.  You would like a drink of water and some chips while watching Mario Vs My Little Ponies: Friendship to Destruction.  You go to the kitchen get a drink of water and your child like some help so, you go into their room after leaving the kitchen.  You get back into the Living Room but you forgot Chips.  You make the Trek back into the Kitchen to get your chips.  Once inside the living room you've noticed that now you don't have the time to finish MvMLP:FtD.

Realistically speaking it may take 2 minutes to get across a house but, there is normally no reason that it takes 30 seconds to open a regular door in a house.  I know that.  You know that.  It starts to become an annoying environment when actions take vastly disproportionate amount of time to what they normally would.  Its just not an enjoyable environment to inhabit.

...
Also, I need you to rephrase that bit on focus.  I don't think anyone could explain what you were trying to say there =P
...

To have in-depth discussion on any given topic you need to focus on different aspects of the topic in turn.  A very broad focus gives you a very broad discussion. 

That's not exactly what I want to get across but I doubt you want me to keep trying to get what I really want out again or we'll end up with something like the above.
On the Past Nintendo Online Issue compared to what Nintendo had in the past Online wise they have regressed.

[Chocobo_Rider]

BNM-

Sorry, I thought you were speaking about general company philosophies there.  My mistake.

Strictly regarding online services, it doesn't cost Sony any money to provide those bells and whistles? They don't require any additional processing power? The 360 can be used online without a subscription fee?

mmm...

As for the long history, online simply hasn't been a focus for Nintendo.  Their focus has been on game quality, and local multiplayer.  I know it would be awesome if every company was great at everything.  But do you think Nintendo's focus was a mistake?

As time has moved on and the popularity of online is increasing, yes, Nintendo is starting to focus on it more.  So, what's the problem?  For most people when a Wii/DS game has online functionality they are interested in, they've enjoyed it.  That's why Brawl and Kart and Tri and Animal Crossing and CoD have been as popular as they are on the platform.  And in the future, it looks like it will only get better.  So, yea, I'm happy with that.

Ceric -

Yes, I'm granting you that your experience with the INTERFACE has been terrible.  But how does that spill over in to ruining the game/overall experience? Which, I presume, is why you're accessing the interface in the first place.

Also, no one is making an argument against focused discussions.  This is why I think you were confused.

[Ceric]

...
Yes, I'm granting you that your experience with the INTERFACE has been terrible.  But how does that spill over in to ruining the game/overall experience? Which, I presume, is why you're accessing the interface in the first place.

Simply put I have to find a game to have an experience with.  Which a terrible interface hinders me in doing so.  The interface is a large portion of the overall experience.  At the moment it is a barrier that I need to overcome to get access to games that I want to play.  It shouldn't be like that.  How would you feel about getting Groceries if you had to climb a 20ft wall to get into the Grocery store?  Navigate an obstacle course to get the peas. Present your Social Security Card, Driver License, and Proof of Address when you checked out.  It feels that limiting.

Now look at Netflix on the other hand.  It looks at what you have done.  Starts to suggest what it thinks you will like.  If that's not what you want it has a convenient search.  Most things on Netflix only takes drilling down 3-4 levels deep.  Even that takes less time then just opening the eShop.  It can be satisfying just to browse and read about the movies.

Same with Amazon.  An inviting shopping experience can really enhance the purchasing process plus your mentality going into a game.  I will be more forgiving and probably enjoy a game more if I have a good experience obtaining it.  There is less of a bar to entry.  I know there has been several games that were ruined for me because they couldn't meet the high expectation that were placed on them due to the difficulty in obtaining them.

Also, no one is making an argument against focused discussions.  This is why I think you were confused.

I never said anyone was.  I was just simply answering the question you posed to me that was:

All I'm trying to say is, everyone's got imperfections, what's the upside to focusing on one?

The Answer is simply Focused Discussion.