Topic: Nintendo's Online Network [Armchair CEO Time]

[BlackNMild2k1]

So it's pretty obvious that Nintendo has no idea what to do with Online or how they are getting it done...

Nintendo has no idea what it's doing for Online....
http://www.gametrailers.com/video/e3-2011-wii-u/716198

Online gaming is very important to us, and we've heard the demands of the veteran gamers that want that. So, we're going to be more flexible with online this time when it comes to online, we're going to work with our 3rd party partners. We're not going to have a centralized one type fits all approach, it is going to be more the publishers trying to figure out what they want to do and we'll try to bring that to life and make sure our platform can support that vision.

Just before that the Nintendo Rep said

We've always been about bringing gaming to the masses, but we've also tried to cater to the veteran gamers. We're disappointed that maybe not more of them didn't embrace the Wii as we had hoped. We're hoping that.. we listened to them and we're hoping that we really do make the console that they really do embrace and that they really want to play.

So why doesn't someone just go tell Nintendo that we want Valve to handle their online by bringing Steamworks to WiiU. There will not be a single person disappointed, neither 3rd party or gamer by that decision.


Can an NWR staff member PLEASE pass on the message. I know that E3 is already over and I hope that one of if not all of you had a chance to talk to someone important, but please reference this interview in an e-mail and pass our wishes along to them.

So maybe it's time us "Armchair CEO's" take a break from our busy schedules and pretend we know how to make it happen better.


So put on your thinking caps and gather your Board of Investors, Designers & Marketers and show us how Nintendo's Online Network should be run.

[Adrock]

This doesn't require an entire discussion, let alone a separate topic. You answered your own question.

So why doesn't someone just go tell Nintendo that we want Valve to handle their online by bringing Steamworks to WiiU. There will not be a single person disappointed, neither 3rd party or gamer by that decision.

This. This is it. Xbox Live is the gold standard for consoles. Steam is the gold standard for any online gaming platform and honestly, dominates Xbox Live and its mother in every way. End of discussion. Thank you for playing, sir. You've been great.

[BlackNMild2k1]

That's what I thought at first, but then there are people like Ian that may have a very different opinion of what Nintendo should do.

And maybe people want to discuss what Nintendo should do in the case that Nintendo doesn't take the easy out and have Valve win the online game for them.

[NWR_insanolord]

If Ian's against using Steam, that's even more reason why they should be doing it.

Nintendo is not capable of doing better than Steam. If Valve were willing to handle it, Nintendo would be crazy not to take them up on it.

[Oblivion]

What makes Steam so good?

[NWR_insanolord]

It has pretty much all the features of Xbox Live, plus some other stuff, and it's free.

[Adrock]

That's what I thought at first, but then there are people like Ian that may have a very different opinion of what Nintendo should do.

THEIR OPINIONS DON'T MATTER BECAUSE THEY ARE WRONG IN THIS VERY SPECIFIC CASE.

And maybe people want to discuss what Nintendo should do in the case that Nintendo doesn't take the easy out and have Valve win the online game for them.

There's only one answer to that: Completely copy Steam feature for feature. Any other suggestion is describing something that is inferior to what is widely accepted as the best in the business. There's no point in that.

The only thing I would add is that a Nintendo online platform powered by Steam be linked to Club Nintendo, unless of course, Club Nintendo was rendered obsolete by having its function integrated into the platform.

[Shaymin]

Yeah, I'm on board. Invite Gabe over to money vault #43 and tell him to help himself.

[bustin98]

As long as there is cross-game chat and invite, instant messaging, a friendlist count of at least 200, and your downloads aren't tied to a single system, then it'll be good.

[sigrah0x7ba]

So maybe it's time us "Armchair CEO's" take a break from our busy schedules and pretend we know how to make it happen better.


So put on your thinking caps and gather your Board of Investors, Designers & Marketers and show us how Nintendo's Online Network should be run.

The issue is that no one seems to be able to think beyond what MS has done, and that's a terrible thing, both in the lack of imagination and in what Microsoft's network actually is. Online for games and consoles right now is terrible. They spend all day and night trying to integrate so-called "social" elements when they are anything but. What's so social about leaving messages or posting pictures? Yes, there are games where gamers are actually interacting with one another but the interaction is usually so juvenial or pointless that, well, it's pointless. How have we not gotten past the point where online is almost exclusively used in games where we shoot one another and then scream into a headset about what a looser that guy I just wasted was? Online has simply been used as a replacement for local multi-player and LAN gaming. And I'm not ashamed to say that multi-player is a whole hell of a lot more fun with real people actually in the same room with you.

No one is trying to push online forward. All we're doing is going around in circles and adding more and more garbage to distract from the fact that since it's inception, online gaming hasn't evolved one iota.

Where are the co-op games? And I don't mean just shooting but even there co-op seems to be ignored. Where are the puzzle and adventure games where you actually have to work together to get through the game? And where the hell are the online games that can't be done any other way? The only type I can think of are MMORPGs and even those suck because everyone is just doing the same damn things.

I want new. I want fresh. I want original. I want online in games and on consoles to live up to it's own promise and not just turn into a new version of Facebook and Twitter. *shivers*

I'm sorry but I'm just sick of gamers lapping up a 3rd rate online system just because they can't get their heads around the idea that there might actually be something better, far better, out there.

And I'm beyond sick and tired of developers refusing to try something new with it just because they're lazy and can't seem to think for themselves.

Now then, are there any Armchair CEO's out there willing to deal with those problems???

[Chozo Ghost]

The fact Nintendo is taking pointers from EA in setting up their online system is not very encouraging. Anyone who is familiar with EA's online scheming on the PS3/360 knows they like to use vouchers for online access, and then they force you to pay for every little piddly thing in games like Battlefield Bad Company 2. Finally, EA has a bad habit of completely severing online support for games that are 2-3 years old...

So yeah, I don't want EA's input to be used in the crafting of Nintendo's online system.

[bustin98]

I think there is a difference between an online network and the games that run on it.

The network provides the basis of communication, the bandwidth, the infrastructure.

Co-op possibilities is up to the developers to create seperate from the network. Its not like Facebook and Twitter is dependent on how the Internet is put together.

Portal 2 co-op is a puzzle game that you can't get through without a second player...

[Oblivion]

Steam doesn't seem that great, actually. It may be free, but jesus, it's games are fraking expensive.

[Chozo Ghost]

I think there is a difference between an online network and the games that run on it.

I understand that, but the problem I have with EA is in their ethics, and that's why I don't want them to have a hand in any aspect of Nintendo's online system, because if they can think of any way they can further milk people and rip them off, they will pressure Nintendo for that to implemented, and Nintendo being Nintendo they may actually go along with it themselves.

A home is a very different thing from a bank, but you wouldn't want to put a home burglar in charge of security at your bank, right? So why would we want to put a company (EA) who likes to rip people off in Online Games to have a hand in developing the infrastructure for said online gaming?

[SixthAngel]

I figure they are in talks with people and also seeing how some of the 3ds online stuff pans out.  It's still a year and half away so I'm not really worried.

People keep talking about Steam but I don't really know if it would work.  First of all wouldn't Valve want a cut from the games sold just as they do on steam currently?
Secondly does Valve even have the staff to set up an online network for somebody else?  It would involve taking people off their own network and would involve the legal troubles of favoring their own network much like a different company had with the Unreal engine.

[Kairon]

What SixthAngel said. It's one thing to say "get Valve to do it!" But it's another thing to actually try and figure out HOW to get Valve to do it. And then there's the thing that PC games, including steam, have a lot of PRIVATE servers that are paid for monthly by the PLAYERS. I think my younger bro always played TF2 on private servers that players were paying for out of their own pockets. It's a case of hardcore rich players supporting each other and some freeloaders with their own hardware, bandwidth, and/or money. I can't begin to fathom how that structure could be replicated on consoles.

I think one of the big things for Nintendo to nail is a DLC system. I think that third parties are continuing to look to DLC and "freemium" models in order to monetize against rising dev costs, and without the ability to support those business models Nintendo will lose games and features. Also, without a robust DLC system, gamers will feel that the Wii U version of the game will always end up lacking features other console will be getting in the future. The Wii U CANNOT claim full parity with the HD twins (if it wants to, that is) unless it cannot offer similarly robust DLC.

As for taking a permissive stance to EA or Activision providing their own separate networks, I think that's a plus. EA and Activision have both made major moves to establish their own online spaces for their families of games, and if indeed that's the way some 3rd parties are intending to go, Nintendo could gain some support or even exclusive features for Wii U games if they welcome it.

Of course, in addition to that, I think Nintendo needs its own one-friendcode good-quality online infrastructure that it uses for its own games, general Wii U network functionality, and for third parties who just want to piggyback on a "vanilla" solution.

Also, flash support on the browser (so people can play facebook games on the Tablet controller), and a wired ethernet port...

[Ceric]

...

Online gaming is very important to us, and we've heard the demands of the veteran gamers that want that. So, we're going to be more flexible with online this time when it comes to online, we're going to work with our 3rd party partners. We're not going to have a centralized one type fits all approach, it is going to be more the publishers trying to figure out what they want to do and we'll try to bring that to life and make sure our platform can support that vision.

...

Hey this approach sounds familiar... Oh wait ITS THE GAMECUBE Answer.  PSO being the only truly Online game confirmed.

Seriously terrible approach. As a developer I rather have something Deep I could tap into and build off of.

[Adrock]

Of course Valve doesn't have the staff to build an online platform for another company. They would just hire more staff. That's part of what Nintendo would be paying for. Additionally, Nintendo is paying for access to Valve's patents and code. Nintendo COULD hire all the people to do this themselves for scratch but WHY? Similarly, Nintendo could have hired a Research and Development team to make their own optical disc format. It's not like any of these things are a secret. The way these things work is available to anyone who wants to learn how. However, Nintendo runs the risk of violating patents and then there are lawsuits and all that other crap that any company would love to avoid. That's why Nintendo deals with Panasonic. That's why Nintendo should deal with Valve.

Valve has their own software and runs their own servers. They clearly know what they're doing and have years of experience. Nintendo is already late to the race but they would effectively be able to jump in the middle of the track instead of beginning from the starting line.

[MorbidGod]

Nintendo shouldn't just copy Xbox Live, but improve upon it in every way. I dream of a day where a company like Nintendo creates a social network for it's platform (in this case, Wii U). This social network will let you do whatever you can on facebook -- share photo's and videos -- but put a gaming touch on it. Just did some amazing thing in the game? Wii U should allow u to "rewind" and then record the cool trick you just accomplished. Then share it with all your friends. It should also show on your status "Allen just defeated Ganon in Zelda HD!" Or anytime you accomplish something, it tells your friends.

Now this feature might be on Xbox Live all ready, however, I think it be cool if when your playing any game --whether it be multiplayer or not -- you should be able to see who is online playing that game, and talk to them. Even join in a group for that game -- where you can talk to multiple different ppl playing the same game.

I think that would be awesome, and should be something Nintendo can do easily. Hopefully they are listening to me right now!

[nickmitch]

...

Online gaming is very important to us, and we've heard the demands of the veteran gamers that want that. So, we're going to be more flexible with online this time when it comes to online, we're going to work with our 3rd party partners. We're not going to have a centralized one type fits all approach, it is going to be more the publishers trying to figure out what they want to do and we'll try to bring that to life and make sure our platform can support that vision.

...

Hey this approach sounds familiar... Oh wait ITS THE GAMECUBE Answer.  PSO being the only truly Online game confirmed.

Seriously terrible approach. As a developer I rather have something Deep I could tap into and build off of.

Agreed. That's pretty much like having nothing. The blanket approach lets me not have separate IDs for each 3rd party. The 3DS was a step in the right direction, that would be two steps back.

[Chozo Ghost]

I think one of the big things for Nintendo to nail is a DLC system. I think that third parties are continuing to look to DLC and "freemium" models in order to monetize against rising dev costs, and without the ability to support those business models Nintendo will lose games and features. Also, without a robust DLC system, gamers will feel that the Wii U version of the game will always end up lacking features other console will be getting in the future. The Wii U CANNOT claim full parity with the HD twins (if it wants to, that is) unless it cannot offer similarly robust DLC.

That will not happen if there is only 8gb of onboard storage. Unless players want to have to keep uninstalling their **** in order to have room for whatever game they happen to be playing at the moment. Being able to expand the storage to 64gb via SD cards is not an answer either, because 64gb is not enough.

[NWR_insanolord]

It supports USB hard drives. If you're crazy, you could plug a 4 terabyte drive into the thing.

[Chozo Ghost]

I guess that's an option, but it requires an additional $100 or more purchase (unless you already have one), and its something that will have to dangle around separately from the console which would look ugly and take up additional space. But the main problem here is that developers are going to develop their stuff with that 8GB in mind, because they develop based on what the standard hardware configuration of consumers is. Some may have USB hard drives, but not everyone will, so they aren't likely to develop based on what a small segment may have. This means the Wii-U may miss out on a lot of stuff. Corners may be cut to keep the size down, so we may end up missing content that the other consoles have.

[NWR_insanolord]

But how do you know they'll only design with the base in mind? All PS3s have hard drives, so there's nothing to take from that. There are, however, lots of Xbox 360s out there without hard drives, and yet developers for that platform tend to assume people have hard drives. Add to that the fact that Ghost Recon Online is coming to Wii U exclusively as a digital download, likely to be a couple gigabytes in size, despite that limitation.

[ShyGuy]

One thing that would be cool is if the Wii U could go into a power saving mode but then keep a feed going to the controller. On the controller would be your gaming friends list so you could be watching TV and look down at the controller and see that Kairon is online and he's playing We Cheer 3 and we have the option to join him.