Author Topic: Casual gamers are more picky than you  (Read 28078 times)

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Offline Ymeegod

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Re: Casual gamers are more picky than you
« Reply #25 on: March 27, 2010, 02:35:55 AM »
Sigh, we aren't talking about what he/she likes but what sells and what's killing the industry.  If you read the article it sounds like any other rantings from a fanboy.  How the hardcore gamers are killing the gaming because they are buying "halo clones" and how the casuals are the ones that are saving gaming because they are buying "fresh" titles.  That's his point number 1 which isn't the case because games like HL's Portal was a new concept and it was the hardcore games buying it up.  Or look more recent titles like Heavy Rain.  You don't need motion controls to make something fresh.

Reminds of me what reality shows did to TV.  Yeah there's a market for them but what about those of us that loved ole school shows? 

Offline GoldenPhoenix

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Re: Casual gamers are more picky than you
« Reply #26 on: March 27, 2010, 02:39:33 AM »
Sigh, we aren't talking about what he/she likes but what sells and what's killing the industry.  If you read the article it sounds like any other rantings from a fanboy.  How the hardcore gamers are killing the gaming because they are buying "halo clones" and how the casuals are the ones that are saving gaming because they are buying "fresh" titles.  That's his point number 1 which isn't the case because games like HL's Portal was a new concept and it was the hardcore games buying it up.  Or look more recent titles like Heavy Rain.  You don't need motion controls to make something fresh.

Reminds of me what reality shows did to TV.  Yeah there's a market for them but what about those of us that loved ole school shows? 

Wii Sports, and Wii Fit were new concepts too. There are always exceptions to the rule. Get over yourselves, hardcore gamers can be just as, if not more exclusive to the familiar then anyone else. Just look at the top 10 lists each month, and tell me how many "fresh concepts" are on there for the "hardcore" gamer. Let's look at the best selling "hardcore" game last year, was it a fresh concept? Oh wait it was CoD:WaW2.
« Last Edit: March 27, 2010, 02:59:02 AM by GoldenPhoenix »
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Offline Guitar Smasher

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Re: Casual gamers are more picky than you
« Reply #27 on: March 27, 2010, 02:47:08 AM »
broodwars:

Why should people be expected to learn to enjoy things?

The point isn't for the casuals to evolve into hardcore gamers, it's get them to keep buying video games.  If they weren't interested in Halo last gen, they aren't going to be interested in it now.  It's not a learning process where you have to go through baby steps to begin.  It's just a difference in values.

You mention that sales indicate that casuals only find a couple of games they like, which they stick with instead of continually stocking their library (and this is a stretch given the number of million sellers).  Well I say that this indicates that they're not being presented with games that they're interested in buying.  Imagine a new reader, who's just read his first book.  He's not thinking "well that book was good, but that's the only book I'm going to read".  He's going to hope that more books that interest him become available.  But if nobody writes these books, then of course he's going to stop reading.

So when you talk about the state of the Wii, don't blame the casuals.  There's plenty of room for games that interest them as well as games that interest the hardcores.  The responsibility rests with the industry, which has failed to identify what interests each segment.

Offline broodwars

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Re: Casual gamers are more picky than you
« Reply #28 on: March 27, 2010, 03:14:26 AM »
broodwars:

Why should people be expected to learn to enjoy things?

You know what?  You're right.  Why should people be expected to learn to broaden their horizons and enjoy new experiences, because it's not like that's the Wii's mission statement (or a common argument of Wii loyalists) or anything.  It's not like doing so inevitably makes gaming better overall through an integration of new perspectives and ideas.
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Offline KDR_11k

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Re: Casual gamers are more picky than you
« Reply #29 on: March 27, 2010, 03:16:04 AM »
I'm sorry, but if they didn't ignore the gaming industry in general we wouldn't hear all these stories of Wii owners who are satisfied with only Wii Sports/Fit

I don't think I've ever actually heard such a story that wasn't just pure conjecture by a hardcore gamer based on the term "casual".

Offline Guitar Smasher

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Re: Casual gamers are more picky than you
« Reply #30 on: March 27, 2010, 03:22:00 AM »
broodwars:

Why should people be expected to learn to enjoy things?

You know what?  You're right.  Why should people be expected to learn to broaden their horizons and enjoy new experiences, because it's not like that's the Wii's mission statement (or a common argument of Wii loyalists) or anything.  It's not like doing so inevitably makes gaming better overall through an integration of new perspectives and ideas.  Oh wait, YES IT ****ING DOES!
WiiSports, WiiFit, etc...  There's your broadened horizons.

You're just confusing your values with what you desire the casuals to evolve into.

And stop with the swearing, it's not persuasive, it's juvenile.

Offline Mop it up

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Re: Casual gamers are more picky than you
« Reply #31 on: March 27, 2010, 03:22:29 AM »
For one everyone on the forum is considered hardcore--we do research on our games.
I am not hardcore. Please do not lump me in with hardcore.

Offline broodwars

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Re: Casual gamers are more picky than you
« Reply #32 on: March 27, 2010, 03:27:36 AM »
broodwars:

Why should people be expected to learn to enjoy things?

You know what?  You're right.  Why should people be expected to learn to broaden their horizons and enjoy new experiences, because it's not like that's the Wii's mission statement (or a common argument of Wii loyalists) or anything.  It's not like doing so inevitably makes gaming better overall through an integration of new perspectives and ideas.  Oh wait, YES IT ****ING DOES!
WiiSports, WiiFit, etc...  There's your broadened horizons.

You're just confusing your values with what you desire the casuals to evolve into.

And stop with the swearing, it's not persuasive, it's juvenile.

Actually, I removed the swearing shortly after the original posting, in light of preferring a more consistent sarcastic tone.  Pity apparently my editing wasn't as fast as your replying. -_-'
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Offline Ymeegod

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Re: Casual gamers are more picky than you
« Reply #33 on: March 27, 2010, 03:53:06 AM »
"I am not hardcore. Please do not lump me in with hardcore."

You're on a Nintendo fansite talking about video games that you seem to know about yet that doesn't make you hardcore?  Hate to break it to you but there's only three types, there's hardcore, casuals, and lastly non-gamer.  You have to be one of the three.

You're hardcore, there no two ways about it.  Your login on this site would be enough proof of that.


Offline Mop it up

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Re: Casual gamers are more picky than you
« Reply #34 on: March 27, 2010, 04:17:44 AM »
So just because someone chats on a forum and can remember games they've played, that makes them hardcore?

There are more than just the two extremes of gamers, "hardcore" and "casual" (I honestly don't see a difference between "casual" and "non-gamer"). There's a nice big grey area of people who don't fit either descriptor, but it's just easier for people to separate them into two vaguely-defined groups.

Offline Ymeegod

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Re: Casual gamers are more picky than you
« Reply #35 on: March 27, 2010, 04:34:16 AM »
Being informed is one way to define a hardcore gamer vrs a casual gamer who simply buys on impluses.  Non-gamer are parents or anyone else who buys games they would never use.  Some people state that hardcore gamers also play complex games vrs simple games.  For example Metroid Prime series would be considered hardcore and I would state that Zelda would be as well.


Offline BeautifulShy

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Re: Casual gamers are more picky than you
« Reply #36 on: March 27, 2010, 04:38:43 AM »
I bet this is going to turn into a definition wars topic now.

I just have this to say. The Wii has been out going on its 4th year. Since the new gamers have had a Wii since it was launched that means that they have been gaming for 4 years. I want you Broodwars and Yemmgod to think about your first console and after playing and enjoying it for 4 years would you of labeled yourself casual?
Think about that before you label people things.
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Offline Mop it up

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Re: Casual gamers are more picky than you
« Reply #37 on: March 27, 2010, 04:42:33 AM »
I don't know mate, people seem to have different definitions of "hardcore" and "casual" so I don't really buy into any of that. If I fit your definition then there isn't anything I can do about that, but I don't consider myself hardcore or pretend to be hardcore.

Offline GoldenPhoenix

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Re: Casual gamers are more picky than you
« Reply #38 on: March 27, 2010, 04:47:52 AM »
For one everyone on the forum is considered hardcore--we do research on our games.
I am not hardcore. Please do not lump me in with hardcore.

At least hardcore how the industry likes to define it. The so called "well informed" gamer who thinks their opinion is more sound then a casual gamer is what I consider a hardcore gamer. The ones who buy 50 bazillion copies of GTAIV because the series is the roxors, and it is hyped to the moon. Get over yourselves, seriously, you are no better then a casual gamer in regards to what you buy or don't buy as a whole. Just look at the best selling "hardcore" games each year, you seldom see anything that isn't a sequel or a knock off of a popular "hardcore" genre.

The mainstream so, called, hardcore gamer tends to revolt me with their attitude (Usually in regards to casual gamers) so I would much appreciate not to be included with them especially since I have little time to devote to gaming. So I limit my purchases to games I truly want, and guess what was the last game I bought? Endless Ocean 2! I know, blasphemy.
« Last Edit: March 27, 2010, 04:54:08 AM by GoldenPhoenix »
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Offline Ymeegod

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Re: Casual gamers are more picky than you
« Reply #39 on: March 27, 2010, 05:25:14 AM »
Maxi? It still doesn't change what I stated about hardcore gamers?   At one point of time we were all casual gamers but yeah if he/she has been playing for 4 years and begins to read reviews/previews then that wouldn't make them a casual gamer anymore.  I really wouldn't consider my nephew a hardcore gamer simply because he plays alot and been gaming for three years.  He's still green but at least he knows a few good games vrs the crap that everyone else buys him--Mom bought him Dora Dora for crying out loud.

Again, nobody on a game forum can call themselves an casual gamer. 

Offline KDR_11k

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Re: Casual gamers are more picky than you
« Reply #40 on: March 27, 2010, 06:09:04 AM »
You know, I have to wonder why people always ask who still plays Wii Fit. What's the answer if I ask who still plays Batman Arkham Asylum? That got rated as the game of the year by many publications.

Also what's with all the attributes that people tack onto "casual" gamers? Almost none of them are properly sourced, most just conjecture. Do we know if these people are uninformed? If we take that as a part of the definition for "casual" can we really assume that any statistics on "casual" gamers use those same definitions? There's way too much equivocation here.

Offline broodwars

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Re: Casual gamers are more picky than you
« Reply #41 on: March 27, 2010, 06:22:37 AM »
You know, I have to wonder why people always ask who still plays Wii Fit. What's the answer if I ask who still plays Batman Arkham Asylum? That got rated as the game of the year by many publications.

The difference is that Wii Fit is a utility, not a game.  I may not like it, but it has a practical purpose in being used often as part of a personal fitness program.  Batman Arkham Asylum is my favorite game from last year by far, and if it wasn't for all the awesome games I'm playing right now (seriously, the last two months have been paradise for an RPG fan like myself.  Star Ocean 4, Final Fantasy XIII, and Resonance of Fate alone will probably be enough to satisfy me till probably late May or June) I'd probably be playing it again.  Hardcore games don't get played so much after completion because hardcore gamers have other games to play.
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Offline Mop it up

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Re: Casual gamers are more picky than you
« Reply #42 on: March 27, 2010, 01:26:38 PM »
This is what I gather from this topic:
Casual gamer: uninformed idiot
Hardcore gamer: elitist know-it-all
There is no in between, everyone must be one or the other.
Okay thanks for clearing that up.

Offline Guitar Smasher

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Re: Casual gamers are more picky than you
« Reply #43 on: March 27, 2010, 03:00:30 PM »
This is what I gather from this topic:
Casual gamer: uninformed idiot
Hardcore gamer: elitist know-it-all
There is no in between, everyone must be one or the other.
Okay thanks for clearing that up.
Actually it's only about 2 users who have that attitude, at least in this topic.  I guess they're just louder?

I also agree with you, I don't want to be labeled as a hardcore gamer.  Gaming is only a minor interest of mine, and while I do try to stay informed, I don't dedicate much of my time to it.  I'm on the path to becoming a lapsed gamer, but thankfully Wii has given me something to keep me interested.

Offline broodwars

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Re: Casual gamers are more picky than you
« Reply #44 on: March 27, 2010, 03:06:25 PM »
I bet this is going to turn into a definition wars topic now.

I just have this to say. The Wii has been out going on its 4th year. Since the new gamers have had a Wii since it was launched that means that they have been gaming for 4 years. I want you Broodwars and Yemmgod to think about your first console and after playing and enjoying it for 4 years would you of labeled yourself casual?
Think about that before you label people things.

1.  I haven't labeled anyone here anything, so leave me out of that little definition spat.

2.  Well, when I was 9 I definitely considered myself the hardest of the hardcore, and would be as such by any definition you please.  I would play my NES games at least 5-6 hours a day, and when I wasn't playing I'd be reading gaming books/magazines (Nintendo Power, EGM); hanging out at my local gaming store; or creating my own pencil & paper games.  Actually, getting rid of my NES for my SNES was one of the hardest things I ever had to do as a kid.  :'(
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Offline NinGurl69 *huggles

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Re: Casual gamers are more picky than you
« Reply #45 on: March 27, 2010, 04:28:42 PM »
To KDR,

Great thread.
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Offline NinGurl69 *huggles

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Re: Casual gamers are more picky than you
« Reply #46 on: March 27, 2010, 06:00:20 PM »
http://spoonyexperiment.com/2010/03/18/tse-riff-theater-gamecrazy-training-video/

Good to know there are retailers that got their "casual" definitions straight, long before Nintendo DS even showed up.
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Offline D_Average

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Re: Casual gamers are more picky than you
« Reply #47 on: March 27, 2010, 06:58:48 PM »
http://spoonyexperiment.com/2010/03/18/tse-riff-theater-gamecrazy-training-video/

Good to know there are retailers that got their "casual" definitions straight, long before Nintendo DS even showed up.

Nice find.  That video really picks up at 1:17 with a bit of Gsizzle.
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Offline ThePerm

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Re: Casual gamers are more picky than you
« Reply #48 on: March 28, 2010, 08:15:49 PM »
should be changed to broke gamers are pickier than you
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Offline Ian Sane

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Re: Casual gamers are more picky than you
« Reply #49 on: March 29, 2010, 01:31:41 PM »
The idea that hardcore gamers just buy the same stuff is laughable coming from any Nintendo fan.  Nintendo releases the same stuff again and again and everyone eats it up.  NSMB Wii is the biggest Wii game to come out in a while.  Almost everyone on this forum loves it, including me.  But it is such a play-it-safe conservative cookie cutter title.  Next on the horizon is Super Mario Galaxy 2 which sounds like a glorified expansion pack.  Nintendo also recycles content like the NPC games.  Wii Fit is all innovative but its follow-up is Wii Fit Plus which is such a minor update.

You can crap on GTA and Halo and God of War and all this but it's no fucking different at all.  The only reason those games are crapped on is because they're NOT ON THE WII.  Aside from the Wii___ series Nintendo has stuck almost entirely to really old franchises.  Meanwhile Sony, who gets crapped on, has Uncharted, Resistance and Infamous which are all brand new IP for this generation.  And even stuff like God of War, Killzone or Ratchet & Clank debuted only last gen.

Do core gamers just buy the same stuff?  Well on the Wii the same stuff is all you can buy!  Yeah I've got Mario and Zelda and Metroid but that's what Nintendo provides.  That's ALL they provide that isn't aimed at non-gamers.  The new IPs aimed at core gamers are actually on the other consoles.  Sequels are going to sell and that's no different then the film industry.  But that doesn't mean when new stuff is available it is always ignored or is destined to be ignored.  More sequels are made because there's less risk and less effort involved.

The reason I don't own any of the Wii series besides Wii Sports isn't because I don't like original games.  It's because I've tried these games and they don't interest me because they're too dumbed down.  They rely on a novelty that wears off for me in a few hours.  They lack substance.  They're not worth the money to me.  And that's all it is.  It isn't even because it's aimed at a different audience.  It's because the design used to appeal to that different audience results in games that I find BORING.

And even though there is no right and wrong in regards to liking games, if certain games are popular then that's what types of games will be made.  The gaming industry is very much about trends.  Something catches on and everyone copies it.  So if I don't like the trend, genres I like get ignored and genres I don't like are made in abundance.  If the novelty-over-substance of Wii Sports didn't catch on the Wii wouldn't be full of casual-focused trash.  Maybe you like that stuff, but understand that if someone doesn't this really sucks.  If Nintendo was making games you didn't like on a regular basis would you not be somewhat hostile about that as well?

As for casual gamers being more picky, hey, everyone is susceptible to some form of marketing.  Cores, casuals, everybody.  Sometimes it can be as simple as making a game that the person knows they'll like.