Topic: Casual gamers are more picky than you

[KDR_11k]

http://www.gamasutra.com/blogs/TimTavernier/20100319/4727/Casual_Gamers_Are_Actually_More_Critical_Then_Hardcore_Gamers.php


Why are casual gamers harder sells than hardcore gamers? Because marketing trickery doesn't work on them!

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

Oh, no!  The secret's out!

[Mop it up]

I agree with a lot of that.
I would also add that "casual" gamers are more willing to try new things. Games like Wii Fit and Wii Sports are new concepts that were quickly embraced by "casuals," but "hardcore" gamers rarely deviate from established franchises.

I guess that's partly covered by number 1, but whatever.

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

Wii Fit Plus is amazing.

[noname2200]

Pshaw, that article is absurd. The casuals buy whatever simplistic shovelware they see advertised. Take Carnival Games. We HardCore folks are much more discriminating: we can smell an overrated game from miles away. Now I'm going back to play GTA IV.

[broodwars]

I wouldn't phrase this problem as the "casuals being more picky" so much as "the casuals don't need more than 1-3 games a year, and once they have their Wii Fit/Carnival Games/etc. they just ignore the rest".  "Being picky" indicates that they actually care enough to critically examine and contemplate the various games out there, and then make a choice.

[KDR_11k]

They buy a game if it makes a good case for why it would enrich their library. Just a minor improvement on a game they already have isn't going to make them shell out 50€ again.

[Guitar Smasher]

I wouldn't phrase this problem as the "casuals being more picky" so much as "the casuals don't need more than 1-3 games a year, and once they have their Wii Fit/Carnival Games/etc. they just ignore the rest".  "Being picky" indicates that they actually care enough to critically examine and contemplate the various games out there, and then make a choice.

Who needs games?  Maybe the hardcore do, which is why it's apparently so easy to sell to them.  But the casual crowd doesn't need games.  That doesn't mean they won't buy more than 3 games a year, though.  If they see something that they want, they'll buy it.  It's not like if I learn about a new movie I really want to see, I'm going to think "well I've already been to the theatre once this month..."  The point is you have to sell your game to them.  Maybe they don't critically examine every game that gets released, but why should they, they don't need to.  But don't accuse them of ignoring the rest, they'll respond positively if they hear/see positive things about a certain game.  That's how word of mouth operates, and is why we actually see a ton of million sellers.

[D_Average]

I wouldn't phrase this problem as the "casuals being more picky" so much as "the casuals don't need more than 1-3 games a year, and once they have their Wii Fit/Carnival Games/etc. they just ignore the rest".  "Being picky" indicates that they actually care enough to critically examine and contemplate the various games out there, and then make a choice.

Who needs games?  Maybe the hardcore do, which is why it's apparently so easy to sell to them.  But the casual crowd doesn't need games.  That doesn't mean they won't buy more than 3 games a year, though.  If they see something that they want, they'll buy it.  It's not like if I learn about a new movie I really want to see, I'm going to think "well I've already been to the theatre once this month..."  The point is you have to sell your game to them.  Maybe they don't critically examine every game that gets released, but why should they, they don't need to.  But don't accuse them of ignoring the rest, they'll respond positively if they hear/see positive things about a certain game.  That's how word of mouth operates, and is why we actually see a ton of million sellers.

Yeah thats true.  Its seems like they ignore them, when perhaps they have no idea of their existence.  However, if they saw as many game ads as movie ads, they'd probably respond and buy more than 1-3 games a year.

[broodwars]

I wouldn't phrase this problem as the "casuals being more picky" so much as "the casuals don't need more than 1-3 games a year, and once they have their Wii Fit/Carnival Games/etc. they just ignore the rest".  "Being picky" indicates that they actually care enough to critically examine and contemplate the various games out there, and then make a choice.

Who needs games?  Maybe the hardcore do, which is why it's apparently so easy to sell to them.  But the casual crowd doesn't need games.  That doesn't mean they won't buy more than 3 games a year, though.  If they see something that they want, they'll buy it.  It's not like if I learn about a new movie I really want to see, I'm going to think "well I've already been to the theatre once this month..."  The point is you have to sell your game to them.  Maybe they don't critically examine every game that gets released, but why should they, they don't need to.  But don't accuse them of ignoring the rest, they'll respond positively if they hear/see positive things about a certain game.  That's how word of mouth operates, and is why we actually see a ton of million sellers.

I'm sorry, but if they didn't ignore the gaming industry in general we wouldn't hear all these stories of Wii owners who are satisfied with only Wii Sports/Fit and Wii software sales would be much better than they are.  Maybe they're just satisfied with those, maybe they don't have the time to play more (something that lately I can be somewhat sympathetic towards as I work 12 or so hours a day these days), maybe they just don't care.  No one knows for sure, and I honestly don't really care.  All I care about is that they don't buy software outside a couple key titles, so I'm not altogether fond of them.

[Mop it up]

The casuals buy whatever simplistic shovelware they see advertised. Take Carnival Games. We HardCore folks are much more discriminating: we can smell an overrated game from miles away. Now I'm going back to play GTA IV.

Considering that Carnival Games was built from the ground up for Wii, I don't see how it is shovelware. I also don't see how a 59% review average is overrated. The game delivers what it promises, and the controls work fine for the most part. I see that game as another case of people calling it a poor game just because it doesn't interest them. I'd rather play Carnival Games than GTA IV.

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

Birdette, his stealth satire flew under your radar.

[Mop it up]

That wouldn't surprise me if true, but with all the serious casual hate out there... I can't be sure.

[Ymeegod]

The point being Mop is it ISN'T a good game yet it continued to sell.  There's tons of BETTER party games on the WII that didn't even come close to hitting a million. 

See the author misses a key point while it's true hype only effects die-hard gamers but casual gamers still fall for brand names (move-tie-ins, ect) way more.  For example would be Mario and Sonic games (well at least the first one because the sequel was alright).  Should it sold as well as it did (hit something like 6 million)--for an 65ish game.  Nope, was it the hardcore gamers that bought it on hype?  Nope since the bulk of the sales happened well after the first few months. 

[Mop it up]

The point being Mop is it ISN'T a good game yet it continued to sell.  There's tons of BETTER party games on the WII that didn't even come close to hitting a million. 

Spoken like someone who's never played the game. Or other party games.

[Ymeegod]

Actually my sister bought 3/4 of those Mario and Sonic games so yeah I played them and no they shouldn't have sold more than any of the Rayman party games or even Boom Bloxs IMO. 

Mop you live in an reaility like no other. just because you LIKED the game doesn't mean everyone else is wrong. 

[Mop it up]

Actually my sister bought 3/4 of those Mario and Sonic games so yeah I played them and no they shouldn't have sold more than any of the Rayman party games or even Boom Bloxs IMO.

But have you played Carnival Games? And at least you said IMO this time.

Mop you live in an reaility like no other. just because you LIKED the game doesn't mean everyone else is wrong. 

It doesn't make them right, either. When it comes to games, there are no rights or wrongs.

[Ymeegod]

The point was what's selling it not about people's views.  The game isn't the top rated game in it's field yet it's selling 10 times the normal?  Why--it has a brandname--Mario.  Take Mario out of the title and the game wouldn't have sold more than 1 million.  Sega's learning that the hardway--in case you missed the last few weeks-- Sonic Racing was released and it's bombing the sales charts (don't even think it broke 50K on the WII).  So why doesn't SR game sell?  It was reviewed almost as high as MK WII 78 vrs 82 yet it's not going see 1/2 million mark in it's lifetime.

------------------------------
And yeah my sister bought Carnival Games, Game Party, and a couple of others but I think I only logged in a few hours with Game Party and like 30 mins of CG before poping it out.  Both of them were budgetting titles which sold mostly because of that point alone.  Parents usually bought those titles for either a birthday present for another kid or x-mas gift.  Again, the game was purchased by non-gamers = casual gamers. 
---------------------------------

And the point about DLC and only the hardcore gamers falling for it is somewhat true.  Casual gamers don't even have their systems enabled so yeah, that 100% true but as for gimmicks again WII FIT comes screaming to mind.  Yeah, some people might actually use it but the vast majority of the people that bought the product never inteneded to use it.  It sold like 30 million units but how many of those are actually being used?  Or was used more than 10 hours?  And it wasn't just FIT, Nintendo Dogs did the same damn thing or even a much older title, MYST--alot of people bought that game without the means to even play it :0.

Casual Gamers simply outnumber hardcore games and that's not going to change. 

[BeautifulShy]

I just want to add onto what Mop it up is saying.
If a game interests someone than it really shouldn't matter what everybody else thinks.
I'm sure there are some games that people on this board like but nobody else here likes.

Don't judge people because of their likes and dislikes. If we were all the same the gaming world would be pretty boring.

[broodwars]

I just want to add onto what Mop it up is saying.
If a game interests someone than it really shouldn't matter what everybody else thinks.
I'm sure there are some games that people on this board like but nobody else here likes.

Don't judge people because of their likes and dislikes. If we were all the same the gaming world would be pretty boring.

Indeed.  Just to clarify, if you like ****ty casual trash like so many on this site seem to given how vehemently they defend it, more power to you.  I have a fondness for poorly-paced; melodramatic; often grind-heavy JRPGs (*eyes the copy of Resonance of Fate he's currently playing, which has had him forcibly grinding for about 10 game hours now just to get enough materials to use the game's various systems.*), which I certainly don't expect the rest of you to like.  All I ask is that whatever you like, support it.  That's my problem with the casuals: they've completely changed the direction of the industry and the types of games that are coming out, yet when it comes time to man up and support those games that they are partly responsible for creating, they're nowhere in sight.  And the stuff they do support tends to be so creatively bankrupt (Mario Kart Wii, New Super Mario Bros. Wii, etc.), that I often think we'll never see more interesting projects from certain developers.  As a result, everyone loses.

[Mop it up]

Personally I don't believe a game sells over a million copies if it isn't meeting the satisfaction of consumers. Somewhere along the way, the word would get out that it is no good.

That's my problem with the casuals: they've completely changed the direction of the industry and the types of games that are coming out, yet when it comes time to man up and support those games that they are partly responsible for creating, they're nowhere in sight.  As a result, everyone loses.

If people supported every "casual" game released on the Wii, they'd be buying five games a week. Game companies are at least partially responsible for low sales, if not almost completely.

[Guitar Smasher]

I just want to add onto what Mop it up is saying.
If a game interests someone than it really shouldn't matter what everybody else thinks.
I'm sure there are some games that people on this board like but nobody else here likes.

Don't judge people because of their likes and dislikes. If we were all the same the gaming world would be pretty boring.

Indeed.  Just to clarify, if you like ****ty casual trash like so many on this site seem to given how vehemently they defend it, more power to you.  I have a fondness for poorly-paced; melodramatic; often grind-heavy JRPGs (*eyes the copy of Resonance of Fate he's currently playing, which has had him forcibly grinding for about 10 game hours now just to get enough materials to use the game's various systems.*), which I certainly don't expect the rest of you to like.  All I ask is that whatever you like, support it.  That's my problem with the casuals: they've completely changed the direction of the industry and the types of games that are coming out, yet when it comes time to man up and support those games that they are partly responsible for creating, they're nowhere in sight.  And the stuff they do support tends to be so creatively bankrupt (Mario Kart Wii, New Super Mario Bros. Wii, etc.), that I often think we'll never see more interesting projects from certain developers.  As a result, everyone loses.

I thought you said casuals weren't picky, just ignorant.  Well if they're responsible for the "****ty casual trash " coming out, but aren't actually buying the titles, then aren't they in fact being picky?

Or is it maybe because the industry is treating them like second-rate customers, while in reality they treat their funds as first-rate dollars.

Oh, and could you please lose the elite attitude.  It's preventing me from even considering the validity of your arguments.

[GoldenPhoenix]

News flash the so called "Hardcore" gamer tends to hover around the familiar too and "creatively" bankrupt games as well.

[broodwars]

I thought you said casuals weren't picky, just ignorant.  Well if they're responsible for the "****ty casual trash " coming out, but aren't actually buying the titles, then aren't they in fact being picky?

Or is it maybe because the industry is treating them like second-rate customers, while in reality they treat their funds as first-rate dollars.

They are ignorant, but ignorant by choice.  Sales seem to indicate they find a couple games over a long period of time that they like, and they pretty much stick to them and don't bother looking into anything else.  They're responsible for the casual craze by means of buying the Wii in mass droves, and buying particular casual or (at best) middle-of-the-road software in large numbers.

If the industry is treating them like "second-rate customers", it is because this casual audience has shown no initiative for developing their interests beyond their narrow niche of family/party games.  Of course, it doesn't help when even Nintendo, in its continuing quest to make games for "everyone", fails to ratchet up the level of complexity in their games so the casuals become increasingly familiar with more complicated gaming conventions and systems.  We get great core or middle-of-the-road titles that (IMO) the casuals ignore simply because the industry's done a piss-poor job of making them ready for them (not to mention letting them know the games exist).  Combine an audience that is too skittish to evolve and a market that's too skittish to help them evolve, and you have the State of the Wii right now: underachieving in every possible way except for hardware sales.  Just my opinion, of course.

[broodwars]

News flash the so called "Hardcore" gamer tends to hover around the familiar too and "creatively" bankrupt games as well.

Here's the thing, though: for all the Gears of Wars; Call of Duties; and God of Wars we see in the core market, we also see Heavy Rains; Last Guardians; and Bioshocks.  There's an audience that will support both the familiar and the new, something I see no hope for in this new generation of gamers.  If I should be expected to learn to enjoy stuff like Boom Blox or whatnot (which I have to some extent), they should be expected to learn to enjoy stuff like Bioshock or Final Fantasy.  It's a melting pot of interests the gaming industry's benefited from for decades now that I just haven't seen the casuals wanting to be part of.