Topic: Square Enix expects FF13 to revive Japanese console market

[BlackNMild2k1]

Actually it was done because it was taking far too long to create towns and other areas in the level of Detail that SE thought should be present in a FF game in HD.

Too many man hours going into making sure that every detail is perfect and unique.
Time was ticking and the game needed to be released or worked on for yet another year.

[Dirk Temporo]

If RPGs are to be overhauled it's to get rid of time consuming level grinding and focus on exploration and puzzle solving.

Or, you know, role-playing.

[noname2200]

Pale, word of advice, don't stick up for any FF game after VII and you'll be just fine.
 
Just don't do that around the hardcorez of Final Fantasy fan brats.

IX was awesome.

[broodwars]

Pale, word of advice, don't stick up for any FF game after VII and you'll be just fine.
 
Just don't do that around the hardcorez of Final Fantasy fan brats.

IX was awesome.

So was X.  In fact, aside from the minigames (which Square-Enix has never done well) it's my favorite Final Fantasy.

As for FF XIII, Ian, from what I hear from those who have actually played the game you don't really miss those things they took out when you play it.  I'm going to give it a fair shot when it comes out next month, as it looks like the first good JRPG of this console generation (that will actually see release in North America, anyway).

[Stogi]

I agree with Ian. My favorite RPG's are the ones with a **** ton of sidesquest. Even in FF X, I played the water soccer mini-game till I couldn't be beat....then I played it some more.

[Ymeegod]

"the first good JRPG of this console generation "
tales of vesperia and Eternal Sonata actually were my two fav's this generation. 

FFXIII looks great but the story and character interactions are said to be poor at best.  That's a big downer for me.

As for the combat, yeah I've played quite a few RPGs that were sole action ones---Diablo anyone?  But yeah, for a FF game I always expected to see more towns and whatnot because it makes a better Fantasy setting.  Anything to draw me in (people mention FFX blitz ball is a good example of that)--FFXIII doesn't seem to have that charm.

[broodwars]

"the first good JRPG of this console generation "
tales of vesperia and Eternal Sonata actually were my two fav's this generation.

I played Eternal Sonata on the PS3, and grew bored and quit a couple chapters in.  It's just so exceptionally...bland.  Strangely enough, I found the historical slideshows about Chopin's life to be more interesting than the actual story of the game.

As for Tales of Vesperia, I really want to play that game but Namco-Bandai are being morons and not bringing the PS3 version over here.  And I'm not buying a RRoD machine just to play Vesperia.

[Ymeegod]

Might not even bring over Tales of Graces neither (that's the lastest rumor).  Some said if they don't announce it after E3 then it's not coming .

That was the charm of ES though--adding real life events into account--like you I loved the fun facts about Chopin. 

[Peachylala]

Final Fantasy IX was good, but not great. I loved the characters (VIVI), and the entire setting, but the ATB battles without a full party were goddamn SLOW. Still, when you consider what the game has to contend with (VII/VIII) before it was released, this could be consider classic material.

Might not even bring over Tales of Graces neither (that's the lastest rumor).  Some said if they don't announce it after E3 then it's not coming .

Typical of Scamco-Bandai.

[mattjames2010]

Pale, word of advice, don't stick up for any FF game after VII and you'll be just fine.
 
Just don't do that around the hardcorez of Final Fantasy fan brats.

Yeah, I guess everyone should ignore the best FF of the series.....FFX.

[broodwars]

Pale, word of advice, don't stick up for any FF game after VII and you'll be just fine.
 
Just don't do that around the hardcorez of Final Fantasy fan brats.

Yeah, I guess everyone should ignore the best FF of the series.....FFX.

Finally...someone else who agrees with me on FF X.      Yuna's story easily made up for the game's shortcomings (first half Tidus and Blitzball), IMO.

[mattjames2010]

Pale, word of advice, don't stick up for any FF game after VII and you'll be just fine.
 
Just don't do that around the hardcorez of Final Fantasy fan brats.

Yeah, I guess everyone should ignore the best FF of the series.....FFX.

Finally...someone else who agrees with me on FF X.      Yuna's story easily made up for the game's shortcomings (first half Tidus and Blitzball), IMO.

Well, in my opinion there wasn't a flaw in the game. The battle system was fun, the story was the most unique in the series in my opinion, and the characters were the most memorable since Final Fantasy VII. I really don't know how any Final Fantasy fan could not put this in their top 5 Final Fantasy list.

[KDR_11k]

The battle system was sleep-inducingly boring. No proper fighting or making up tactics, just pure "use the matching attack against each enemy" because each of them had a weakness to one and only one attack which would then instantly defeat it.

[Luigi Dude]

http://www.computerandvideogames.com/article.php?id=235030?cid=OTC-RSS&attr=CVG-General-RSS

The game's director Motomu Toriyamaadded: "We think many reviewers are looking at Final Fantasy XIII froma western point of view. When you look at most Western RPGs, they just dump you in a big open world, and let you do whatever you like... [It] becomes very difficult to tell a compelling story when you're given that much freedom."

The problem with this way of thinking is if the story isn't any good, then no one is going to want to keep playing.  From most impressions I've heard, FFXIII is said to have a pretty poor storyline in which case, Square failed at what they were trying to do then.

[Adrock]

I've heard good things about the storyline even though my initial thoughts were "Ehh, I just don't care. This looks like Star Wars with a pink hair female Cloud."

The last FF I was able to finish was FFIX and that's only because it was a throwback to the good old-school FF games. My hope is that Nintendo/MIstwalker's The Last Story recaptures that feeling.

[iDraTion]

If RPGs are to be overhauled it's to get rid of time consuming level grinding and focus on exploration and puzzle solving.

Or, you know, role-playing.

Haha, great point.  I don't think any of the FF games really let you role-play anything because you don't get to create any significant part of your character and the characters they make are rarely very relateable.  That's why I think RPG is fundamentally a misnomer, except in the case of a game like mass effect where role-playing is the point.  I'll still play FFXIII, but mostly because I didn't have a PS2 and haven't played one since FFVII.  The trailers make it look like it's supposed to have interesting character interactions between characters that will actually drive the story, but I'm still expecting Lightning to not remember her past and use friendship to overcome evil (which looks like it's going to be racism this go around instead of recreating a new world by destroying the current one).  Wait, you mean that's every JRPG ever?  No wonder no one in Japan cares about their games anymore.

[Ymeegod]

Bleh, finally ended up renting FFXIII and have to say what is square thinking this generation?  God awful, not sure what I hate most?  The story and their stories is told is such way that it makes me beg for the good ole days.  The plot really doesn't make as sense at all and I felt "stoopider" for just trying to follow.  And then's the combat system/level up--what a POS that is, you basically only control one leader at a time (which is picked for you for the--I don't know--first 25 hours of the game) and you have an class system, think there's six types from physical, mage, healer, ect).  The class system upgrade kinda sucks because you really can't focus your points the way you want to. Want to level up your healer, along the way there's plenty of nods for "strength" that you really don't need.  Certain other bonuses require you level up other worthless classes just to get the "accessory slot".  Then there's the Eidons or whatever those summons are called, you really can't use them all that much because only your lead character can call his/her summon and that requires alot of TP which takes multiple battles just to save up.  Did I mention how your leader is picked for you 90% of the game .

Am I disappointed?  Nope, well beyond that, felt like Squaresoft took a shot right at my manhood.  First FF number game that isn't going in my collection.

[ThePerm]

lust should be the name of the genre

Leveling Up Strategy & Tactics

[broodwars]

Bleh, finally ended up renting FFXIII and have to say what is square thinking this generation?  God awful, not sure what I hate most?  The story and their stories is told is such way that it makes me beg for the good ole days.  The plot really doesn't make as sense at all and I felt "stoopider" for just trying to follow.  And then's the combat system/level up--what a POS that is, you basically only control one leader at a time (which is picked for you for the--I don't know--first 25 hours of the game) and you have an class system, think there's six types from physical, mage, healer, ect).  The class system upgrade kinda sucks because you really can't focus your points the way you want to. Want to level up your healer, along the way there's plenty of nods for "strength" that you really don't need.  Certain other bonuses require you level up other worthless classes just to get the "accessory slot".  Then there's the Eidons or whatever those summons are called, you really can't use them all that much because only your lead character can call his/her summon and that requires alot of TP which takes multiple battles just to save up.  Did I mention how your leader is picked for you 90% of the game .

Am I disappointed?  Nope, well beyond that, felt like Squaresoft took a shot right at my manhood.  First FF number game that isn't going in my collection.

I'd spend a great deal of time addressing a lot of the problems you have with this game (and how there are very specific design reasons why Square made the game that way), but you know what?  To hell with it, I don't care.  I may have grown up on the older Final Fantasies, but I play them now and they just don't entertain me anymore.  To some people (which may or may not include you), RPGs should never evolve past the mechanics and settings the genre has used for over 20 years, and the two camps will never agree on the issue so to each their own.

[Pale]

I know the cool thing is for Nintendo fans to hate 13, but I just wanted to pop in here and say. I've been playing it almost exclusively since it came out and it is one of my top 5 games of all time.

[Ymeegod]

" RPGs should never evolve past the mechanics "

But an RPG should have RPG gameplay.  This game is just about an rail-version of what used to be an RPG.  You really don't get much choice at all in the game other than do you engage a few foes or simply go around them.  They place limits on you, meaning you can't level up anyway you feel like until chapter 11 which is nearly at the end of the game.  In fact the only challenge so far came out of the pluse plains (chapter 11 where you get your FIRST side quest in the game). 

Hell up to that point I had the same equipment I was using at the begining of the game.  Some of these monsters require you to grind a bit because their attacks can kill you with a single blow.

And I'm not talking about 20 year ole ideas neither, FFXII has a great gambit system compared to this POS AI helper.  80% of the time the autofight works ok but then there's times your allies cast either spells that are blocked or the enemy is immune (they do have the spelll for the enemy weakness no less).  Also they don't use the higher level spells like they should, for example curaja or whatever.  Frienldy AI will continue to cast the weaker cure spell (three times in a row) even though if you cast one curaja spell you'll heal more HP and the entire party to boot.  You can't script them or even cast it manual which you COULD do in FFXII.  Not to mention the whole "enusa" use too, yup about to DIE so my friendly AI decides to heal my pioson (which does so little damage it really doesn't matter) instead of my HP which is less than a quarter.

Then there's formations to complain about as well, you can't even move you one guy that you supposed to have control over during the battle, meaing you get bunched up together and there's ZERO you can do about it.  Why does that bother me?  In the plains (where I'm at now) there's plenty of bosses that attack in area blasts and having your team in one spot makes it impossible to win.  All you can do is reload.  There's zero formations .

There's plenty of good examples of realtime RPGs that dont have these issues, Dragon's Age comes to mind, and Squaresoft really isn't listening at all to the fans.  Instead they releases this POS game for the masses instead of giving it time to flush out the gameplay/levels/ ect.

Damn, I know I'm ranting a bit but FF is my favorite series or at least was. 

[broodwars]

Ok, fine...I'll reply to all that properly (there are several core issues there you don't seem to understand) when I get home tonight, but suffice it to say you seem to be confusing Final Fantasy (which usually focuses on story with the illusion of choice) with Western-style RPGs (which usually focus on choice, IMO usually to the detriment of the story).  Whatever Square may have teased with the 100 hour POS that was Final Fantasy XII and its Final Fantasy MMOs, Final Fantasy is probably never going to be like Dragon Age so if that's your kind of game I suggest you refrain from JRPGs.

[Ymeegod]

"Final Fantasy is probably never going to be like Dragon Age so if that's your kind of game I suggest you refrain from JRPGs."

LOL, I was talking about one point of DA and it's formation, if you want I can even use JRPG too like any of the Tales series or hell I'll even fling back one of square's own--Parasite Eve.  In those games you'll allowed to move your character during combat.  In FFXIII it's done for you and like I stated, I wouldn't complain but there's issues like I stated about your characters bunching up while the enemy rains down area attacks.

Losing because you suck is one thing but losing because you have no control is another.  In FF past games, there's formations (front/back) but in this one you'll sole means of defending from massive attacks is by using an sentinel class person.  Alot of good that does when he (Snow in my case) ends up standing right next to my main character (Light).  Basically had to redo alot of these harder missions (I'm doing the side quests on Pulse) simply because of that fact.

The only real saving grace about FFXIII to me is the autoheal and save/retry features.  Namely every battle the character is fully healed and even if you fail you'll allow to retry the mission.  Without this feature I doubt I would have stuck with the game until the end.
 

[broodwars]

Losing because you suck is one thing but losing because you have no control is another.  In FF past games, there's formations (front/back) but in this one you'll sole means of defending from massive attacks is by using an sentinel class person.  Alot of good that does when he (Snow in my case) ends up standing right next to my main character (Light).  Basically had to redo alot of these harder missions (I'm doing the side quests on Pulse) simply because of that fact.

If you're so concerned about AoE attacks (and if you're fighting what I suspect you're fighting you should be), just create a Paradigm with 3 Sentinels and switch to it when you see the enemy prepping a big attack.  Wow, just like that your problems are solved, as it's pretty much just like using the "Defend" command in previous Final Fantasies.  In fact, a great deal of the FF XIII combat system are commands and decisions from previous games under a macro-management level of abstraction.

[Ymeegod]

"create a Paradigm with 3 Sentinels and switch to it when you see the enemy prepping a big attack.  Wow, just like that your problems are solved, as it's pretty much just like using the "Defend" command in previous Final Fantasies. "

It's not charged attacks though, those Giants monsters on 11 (doesn't matter if it's dogs, elephants, or birdy) attack normally with area effects (the dog for example does a swipe with his paws that attacks everyone in front of him), namely my sole Sentinel has to draw their fire while attacking with the other two.  Sometimes it works alright but that's up to the AI and where's he's standing.

Speaking of Paradigm, while I like the concept, I hate it when they force your party members on you because they always delete your assigned Paradigms which doesn't take to long to fix but I had to do that freaking FIVE times during one hour of gameplay (between chapters 10-11).  Leave my party alone damnit.