Topic: Wii can do it too?

[NWR_DrewMG]

I think saying the "only reason he bought it" is more a figure of speech than anything else.  No one (who is a frequent or studied consumer in gaming) buys a game that excels in one area and fails in every other.  All of the Halos, Calls of Duty, Finals Fantasy, and Ratchets and Clank, they all have great graphics and also excel in other areas.  Halo is great at online play, CoD is great at online play, Final Fantasy presents a great narrative, R&C has great gameplay.

Then you have your Wiis Fit, Supers Mario Galaxy, and Legends of Zelda, which excel in art direction (a different thing than visuals) or game play or are just different enough to warrant a try.  It helps that the Nintendo brand is behind these experiments - it provides the confidence a customer needs to drop $80 on a game that is in a genre unto it's own.

And now I'm done playing fancy with incorrect plurals.

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

I remember when shooters were great.

[Peachylala]

I remember when shooters were great.

I remembered Metroid Prime 1/2/3 look better then the Condiut.

I also remembered that Super Mario Galaxy beats everything in the Highly Disappointing generation. Take that Brown Shading!

[NWR_DrewMG]

I still love a good solo adventure shooter like Half Life or Bioshock.  Competitive FPS gaming hasn't held any of my interest since it was named Doom II.  Also really don't like the military aesthetic that seems to be very prevalent in the genre.

[NWR_DrewMG]

I also remembered that Super Mario Galaxy beats everything in the Highly Disappointing generation. Take that Brown Shading!

Oh man, you really showed it who's boss.

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

Nah, what I need is an extra long sensor bar.  The sensitivity is a bit to picky for my taste, I have long arms so i should be able to set a much larger area instead I'm forced to point at the sensor.  I rather move my entire arm like an idiot (like if I wanted to fire at the upper left of the screen I should just be able to point in that direction.

I tired all types of options, like some of those 3rd party sensors, but can't find a solution that suits me.  The Conduit had some nice options but I still had alot more trouble getting headshots in MP than I should. 

Did you try adjusting the sensitivity in the Wii menu?

Don't stand so close to the TV. Move farther back and it should be fine.

I've been thinking about this, and that sounds to be the case.  If one prefers to hold out their arm/Remote to aim, then it's necessary to sit back far enough so the sensor bar never escapes the viewing angle of the Remote.  However, exceeding 10 feet from the sensor bar is too far, and will cause the twitchy cursor effect, creating innaccuracy (you're far enough that the Remote sees the sensor bar LEDs approach a "vanishing point," and doesn't see much variance in the distance between a pair of LEDs).

If you're always pointing at the sensor,
- about 2-3ft minimum distance is required for comfy and complete IR functionality.
- 10ft is the optimal distance for line-of-sight light-gun gaming (real light-gun gaming); works best if your gun's "swing angle" is minimal, like a submachine gun held close to your eye, rather than a pistol held forward and away from your center (your eye/body).
- beyond 10ft, you get the twitchy effect.

I learned about the Talismoon Retractable Sensor Bar earlier today,
http://www.talismoon.com/cgi-bin/multipage/engine.pl?function=viewid&id=RKS00085&cat=WII-CABLES%20AND%20ADAPTERS

and I'm expecting that separating the LEDs further than the standard bar's 8in will help mitigate the twitchy cursor, tho I haven't found a review that confirms how far the LED nodes will extend.  Adjusting the node distance and your seating distance may help solve Ymeegod's dilemma as well.

I intend to buy it and experiment with it.


http://www.wiinintendo.net/2008/01/03/the-talismoon-retractable-sensor-wiire/

One of the photos shows the nodes definitely have the potential (by separating the wires) to be spaced further than the length of the sensor bar.  But the cord to the Wii is only 2ft long, and I need like 10ft, so I'll have to get an extension cord as well.

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_ss_gw?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=talismoon+sensor

[Rize]

But "Only" implies the sole reason for purchasing the game. If he had said "one of the main/biggest reasons.." it'd be different. The sad truth is there are gamers out there who are blinded by pretty graphics and don't give two ****s about play control, sound or any other part of game design. Somehow the looks are SO good to these gamers that nothing else matters, and thats ridiculous to me, but hey i guess I just don't know how to get joygasm from my eyes and am weird for needing a whole experience before i climax Really though, if the ONLY reason you're buying a game is because it looks amazing, you'd probably be the type to go out and buy a nice fancy Ferrari with no engine under the hood.

Oh and innovation had nothing to do with it, because i agree if the game is solid at what its supposed to do, it can still be a very enjoyable game. We're talking about graphics here.

To be fair, I waited 4 months (thankfully since they didn't get around to patching the junk controls until May 28th) and what finally tipped the scales was a Eurogamer review praising the AI.  However, if it was an ugly shooter with supposedly good AI set in a boring environment I wouldn't have been interested.  So I guess you can say that graphics were the deciding factor, but not the only factor.

I guess the point I was trying to make is that even with solid level design and AI, I wouldn't have been interested in Killzone 2 if it weren't a PS3 flagship game.  I like seeing nice pictures on my shiny 50" plasma.

[Plugabugz]

But "Only" implies the sole reason for purchasing the game. If he had said "one of the main/biggest reasons.." it'd be different. The sad truth is there are gamers out there who are blinded by pretty graphics and don't give two ****s about play control, sound or any other part of game design. Somehow the looks are SO good to these gamers that nothing else matters, and thats ridiculous to me, but hey i guess I just don't know how to get joygasm from my eyes and am weird for needing a whole experience before i climax Really though, if the ONLY reason you're buying a game is because it looks amazing, you'd probably be the type to go out and buy a nice fancy Ferrari with no engine under the hood.

Oh and innovation had nothing to do with it, because i agree if the game is solid at what its supposed to do, it can still be a very enjoyable game. We're talking about graphics here.

To be fair, I waited 4 months (thankfully since they didn't get around to patching the junk controls until May 28th) and what finally tipped the scales was a Eurogamer review praising the AI.  However, if it was an ugly shooter with supposedly good AI set in a boring environment I wouldn't have been interested.  So I guess you can say that graphics were the deciding factor, but not the only factor.

I guess the point I was trying to make is that even with solid level design and AI, I wouldn't have been interested in Killzone 2 if it weren't a PS3 flagship game.  I like seeing nice pictures on my shiny 50" plasma.

So, dare i ask, do you watch any SDTV on your shiny plasma?

[Dirk Temporo]

I remembered Metroid Prime 1/2/3 look better then the Condiut.

Hahaha. Oh wow.

Anyway, you want a great FPS? Get a PC, because you're not going to find them on consoles, with the exception of inferior ports.

[broodwars]

I remembered Metroid Prime 1/2/3 look better then the Condiut.

Hahaha. Oh wow.

Anyway, you want a great FPS? Get a PC, because you're not going to find them on consoles, with the exception of inferior ports.

What's so odd about that?  They do look better than the Conduit.  Perhaps not in the absolute technical sense, but the artists at Retro are clearly superior than those at High Voltage and good art direction will always trump absolute technical ability.  Coincidentally, isn't that what the Wii is supposed to be all about but rarely is?

[Smash_Brother]

At least High Voltage is trying.

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

Yeah, unlike Japan.

[Peachylala]

Japan has: Hideo, Suda51's iggnorances spelling doom for No More Heroes, a **** load of JRPGS, and 2D anime brawlers.

America has: All around Wii-hatred, game reviews with no honesty, Brown Shading, Highly Disappointing sell-outs, NoA VC's management.

[Morari]

I remembered Metroid Prime 1/2/3 look better then the Condiut.

Hahaha. Oh wow.

Anyway, you want a great FPS? Get a PC, because you're not going to find them on consoles, with the exception of inferior ports.

Gosh, I didn't even have to say it this this time around...

[KDR_11k]

The Wii can do a lot more than people give it credit for. Keep in mind that good games existed before the release of the 360, there are TONS of awesome games on the last gen consoles and many of them look great as well. The Wii outperforms anything last gen offers. It seems like developers are using "the Wii is weaker" as an excuse to not even try. Yes, Wii games should be compared to last gen games because of that but so should everything else. Next gen isn't some magical cutoff where previous archievements stop mattering and we can go back to soiling ourselves after learning how to use the crapper last gen.

What's absolutely inexcusable is reviewers using The Conduit to claim the Wii is unsuitable for FPSes. This is bullet to the forehead material. Last gen was capable of FPSes. The Wii can at very least do EVERYTHING last gen did. It can do even more! If you have to you can use the classic controller and then you even have the button count (minus L3/R3 which are just a pain in the ass anyway) but you shouldn't. Pointer aim is clearly superior to dual analogs. If your aim is jittery that's because your hand is, it means your real life aim is jittery. Shooting a gun may just be point and click but it still requires holding still if you want to hit stuff at combat range. Granted, that's a bit easier with a rifle resting against your shoulder but you don't get magic crosshairs with that. There's a reason soldiers don't jump into a room and deliver three headshots in a second!

I also remembered that Super Mario Galaxy beats everything in the Highly Disappointing generation. Take that Brown Shading!

Eh, Banjo-Kazooie Nuts & Bolts is up there as well, kinda similar in style too. A ton of fun too. Some people were disappointed because they expected something like the N64 Banjo-Kazooie and it doesn't seem to be anything like that but it's a great game by its own merits.

I like seeing nice pictures on my shiny 50" plasma.

Wait, you game on a plasma? Doesn't that cause burn-in of HUD elements? AFAIK plasmas are unsuitable for gaming because of that.

[Ymeegod]

" it means your real life aim is jittery. "  Actually in real life I'm rated as expert class :0.  Or was, I'm going to need glasses now but that's mostly do to age my hand is quite stable. 

I'm around 6 feet from the sensor (2 feet is way to close btw: min distance is a meter--3 feet).  I tried 10 feet as well but found it really didn't help much so I went back to the couch.  The zapper kinda works but I can't find an atachment that has great button placements with diretion pad. 

Also, the WII remote is LIGHT--maybe if I could add extra weight to it might help me because alot of it bounces when I'm hammering on the buttons.

[KDR_11k]

Also, the WII remote is LIGHT--maybe if I could add extra weight to it might help me because alot of it bounces when I'm hammering on the buttons.

Yeah, the problem is that The Conduit uses way too many buttons to use any gun shells for the Wiimote. Water Warfare can be played with a gun shell though I never noticed the button reaction as much in WW as in TC.

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

2 feet works fine at my PC monitor, cuz my aiming hand is typically resting, not held out.

10ft with a decent gun shell achieves line-of-sight accuracy with Ghost Squad/HotD calibration, but you have to be standing/sitting in the same spot and height the whole time...

* For Conduit, I don't think the "calibration option" should be used at all, unless the interface is being tweaked to turn it into a light-of-sight light-gun game.  I believe it affects the behavior decided by all other sensitivity options; so it should be left alone to default.

IR pointing is most accurate (ie. the cursor placement is most predictable to the user) when the Remote is stationary and moved via tilting, not being waved and moved through space.

[MegaByte]

Also, the WII remote is LIGHT--maybe if I could add extra weight to it might help me because alot of it bounces when I'm hammering on the buttons.

I actually assigned all of the attack commands to the Nunchuk to combat this.  Of course, if you had real weapons, you'd have to compensate for recoil.  It would be interesting if a future version of the Remote included moving weights to simulate this (and other things like steering and sword hit force-feedback).

[KDR_11k]

It would be interesting if a future version of the Remote included moving weights to simulate this.

It already does, how do you think Rumble works?

Realistically it's not physically possible to give directed force feedback due to actio = reactio. Force feedback joysticks did it by enacting the force against the base, the Wiimote has no base to apply the force to. In order to get directed force on an unattached object you'd need to add thrusters or something. You can delay the onset of the counterforce by applying it to a moving object and only having it reapplied to the controller when the object reaches its goal but you'd still feel both the force and counterforce, for recoil that would mean your controller would first recoil backwards and shortly afterwards recoil forward.

[Stratos]

Speaking of force feedback, has anyone else noticed it being used less or not at all in a number of Wii games? Am I just missing it or are devs overlooking it? I don't recall any in Conduit.

[Peachylala]

Speaking of force feedback, has anyone else noticed it being used less or not at all in a number of Wii games? Am I just missing it or are devs overlooking it? I don't recall any in Conduit.

Very stupid question: What is force feedback? Owning a Wii for two years, and I'm still iggnorant of alot of terms. Bah. 

Eh, Banjo-Kazooie Nuts & Bolts is up there as well, kinda similar in style too. A ton of fun too. Some people were disappointed because they expected something like the N64 Banjo-Kazooie and it doesn't seem to be anything like that but it's a great game by its own merits.

My SMG post was sarcasm and nothing else. B&K looks amazing, but their designs... WHAT. THE. FRACK.

[BeautifulShy]

Force feedback is a fancy way of saying rumble. The N64 was the first system with rumble when it launched Star Fox 64.

Stratos maybe you turned off the rumble in the Home Menu.I know I do that when on the Internet Channel.

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

Force feedback is when the controller device actually applies forces to the player to provide MEANINGFUL information.  Not just any rumble thump.

My Logitech Wheel for GameCube will resist turning to simulate fighting friction between the road and the tires in Burnout 2.  That's an example of force feedback.

Light guns that REALLY rumble to simulate aim-debilitating recoil is another.  Not piss-weak console rumble.

[Rize]

So, dare i ask, do you watch any SDTV on your shiny plasma?

Almost never.  The last thing was Punch Out!!  Which looked fine since it was focused on giant cartoonish characters rather than gaming environments with minute detail.  Some DVDs still look good on it as well, although visual extravaganza's are noticeably blurry.

Wait, you game on a plasma? Doesn't that cause burn-in of HUD elements? AFAIK plasmas are unsuitable for gaming because of that.

It's not ideal, but it can be done.  The trick is to just not play the same game forever.  If you switch it up, each game's HUD is in a different spot from previous games and things end up evening out.  Most of the time after beating a game there are no problems except where the game has really bright HUD elements.  That said, I try to avoid games with large garish HUDs unless the game is exceptional.  Then I'll go ahead and play it but run a break-in program at night which wears all the other pixels in.  Pixel wear gets slower and slower as the pixels gets older, so the less worn pixels always catch up with the worn pixels in time.  Eventually it will get both harder to damage the screen and harder to fix it.  I intend to eventually retire this screen to a TV and movies only screen and get an LCD for gaming.  I'm just waiting for LCD tech to get a bit better (or for the best LCD tech to get a bit cheaper).

I also minimize the image retention whenever possible by eliminating HUD elements or cranking up the transparency if the game lets me.  I love a game like Dead Space that allows me to not worry about the HUD at all because there is none.  It kinda sucks to have your choice of games and attitude towards them determined partially by the HUD design, but man they look beautiful on a plasma