Topic: Wii can do it too?

[EasyCure]

No. Dev's still hate:

A. Nintendo
B. Hard earned money (they prefer moneyhats)
C. Swallowing their pride
D. Nintendo

[Dirk Temporo]

Your friend, like most reviewers, appears to be confusing "better" with "better looking."

[King of Twitch]

The OP isn't very clear..

"You accept when nintendo aims to broaden the market that you get games that appeal to all and a minimum of quality shooter titles, you can't turn around and complain when the hardware doesn't do it as well as the others - it's not a one-size-fits-all console, though you might like it to be"

I'm not supposed to complain about graphics and lack of good Financially Plausible Shooters since I accept the fact that the Wii isn't a one-size-fits-all console that is trying to broaden the market? This makes less sense than my last two posts combined

[broodwars]

The OP isn't very clear..

"You accept when nintendo aims to broaden the market that you get games that appeal to all and a minimum of quality shooter titles, you can't turn around and complain when the hardware doesn't do it as well as the others - it's not a one-size-fits-all console, though you might like it to be"

I'm not supposed to complain about graphics and lack of good Financially Plausible Shooters since I accept the fact that the Wii isn't a one-size-fits-all console that is trying to broaden the market? This makes less sense than my last two posts combined

I'm glad I'm not the only one who thought that contradicting quote made no logical sense, at least how it was (badly) written.  It's kind of hard to comment on a quote when I can't understand what it's saying.

[Peachylala]

No. Dev's still hate:

A. Nintendo
B. Hard earned money (they prefer moneyhats)
C. Swallowing their pride
D. Nintendo

A/D: 1st party loyalty is the only way to go this generation it seems. =/
B. It will be sad when sad publishers can't give out money hats.
C. It should be: "not acknowledging their ignorance" or "the Nintendo fanbase". The second one is iffy because this gen we've somehow become (not all of us) selfish S.O.Bs and Nintendo has to appeal to our every need.

[Stratos]

The second one is iffy because this gen we've somehow become (not all of us) selfish S.O.Bs and Nintendo has to appeal to our every need.

Haven't we always been SOBs? I know most of us were on the Gamecube and there was even an issue with it on the N64 if I recall.

[NWR_DrewMG]

If Nintendo didn't appeal to most of our needs in the past, we wouldn't be here on a Nintendo fan forum.  Obviously there's a change if so many of us are bitching about it.  Either that, or it's mass hallucination.

[Stratos]

I'm sure this route has been trodden upon before, but could it be a change in us and not Nintendo?

[NWR_DrewMG]

I think the most obvious change is that Nintendo used to make games for hardware that was fairly cutting edge, and now they don't.  They've told everyone that cutting edge hardware is completely unimportant, and there's a fair amount of fans who have had it so ingrained into us since the 80s that cutting edge hardware is crucial that this just won't fly.

I mean, they're called video games.  Video is in the title.  Visuals *are* important. 

I'm not making any kind of an argument one way or another here, I'm just trying to paraphrase the conflict.

[Plugabugz]

I will ask him to rephrase it, but i believe he's referring to that we can't complain that FPS's and other genre's won't be as good because it's trying to do everything equally rather than excel in one area or another?

Let me go ask him.

[EasyCure]

The second one is iffy because this gen we've somehow become (not all of us) selfish S.O.Bs and Nintendo has to appeal to our every need.

Haven't we always been SOBs? I know most of us were on the Gamecube and there was even an issue with it on the N64 if I recall.

I can't speak for you guys, but i know i've been an SOB since Gabbo said so himself..

[SixthAngel]

If Nintendo didn't appeal to most of our needs in the past, we wouldn't be here on a Nintendo fan forum.  Obviously there's a change if so many of us are bitching about it.  Either that, or it's mass hallucination.

I think one of the biggest differences is marketing.  Nintendo releases more of their usual games then ever but fans still complain.  They complain because they are pissed Nintendo isn't talking about them and talks about projects focused on others.  For years the way to sell games was to talk to the big fans first and then move from there.  Nintendo could have went with the power glove approach and said how the remote will make you part of the game and more immersed but instead marketed it as a devise that is easy to use.

Everybody was bitching during the Gamecube too, it certainly isn't new.  If I remember correctly the forum name was changed once because of all the whining.  Nintendo fans love to whine.

[Stogi]

This thread needs a big ass METROID M logo.

[Stratos]

This thread needs a big ass METROID M logo.

How's this?

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

Other Mess

[Ian Sane]

I think it's completely fair to compare the Wii to the PS3 and Xbox 360.  All consoles, all of the same generation.  They're the most recent console of all three console makers and they're all on the shelf competing for our dollars.

Is it fair for the Wii to get crapped on for not being able to match the performance of the other consoles?  Well that's kind of iffy but it is useful for consumers to be able tell what console has the best games.  I give a 9 to a Wii game that on the PS3 would be worthy of an 8 because it's a 9 "by Wii standards" then out-of-context my score suggests that that game is comparable to a 9 on the PS3 which can misinform.  This is why I'm not such a big fan of how IGN has seperate channels for different consoles as it doesn't quite put all the consoles in the same perspective.

I think with multiplatform games (the few there are) direct comparisions are fair since someone may have all three consoles and want to know which version to get.  The Cube suffered a lot in direct comparisons regarding games that had online modes.  Well the Cube isn't online so is it fair to be judged on a feature you can't match?  Yes it is because the Xbox version that had everything the Cube version had PLUS online play is clearly superior.  That should be reflected in the review so that if I own both consoles and I do some research I don't buy the inferior version with less features.

The thing with the Wii is that the absolute BEST games on the console still get a fair shake.  Super Mario Galaxy is the most praised game of this generation.  Nobody crapped on Metroid Prime 3.  But those games pushed the Wii hardware and were AAA games made by a AAA developer.  They weren't a small time inexperienced dev and they weren't throwaway spinoffs.  They were real efforts.  Nintendo is probably the only AAA dev that makes any sort of a real effort on the Wii.  And the reviewers didn't let their supposed bias get in the way there.

I don't think the Wii is unfairly judged by critics.  I think just the vast majority of its library is half-assed.  The lack of respect comes from the developers and that is obviously going to affect review scores since nearly every Wii third party game is either:

A. a spin-off
B. a port of a last-gen game with tacked on waggle
C. shovelware
D. a title clearly aimed at children which may or may not be good
E. a decent effort by a small dev that just lacks the talent to truly deliver the goods

Games that fall into these categories don't get nominated for GOTY.  Never have, never will.  These sort of things on other consoles get treated the same way (or would if waggle applied).  We saw the same thing on the Cube only we got Capcom busting out a AAA game once in a while and mulitplatform releases that if they didn't involve online components were equal to the other versions.  Take the Gamecube and remove the Resident Evil games and multiplatform titles like Prince of Persia and Soul Calibur II and what console does this start to resemble? Hmmmm.

[Ymeegod]

"I think it's completely fair to compare the Wii to the PS3 and Xbox 360"

Yeah, it works both ways.  Zelda and Mario are stardards by what other adventure & platformers are compared to so why shouldn't Half-life and Mass Effect are setting the bar in their genres so it should be a standard when talking about other games.

As for controls, I still pefer the mouse and keyboard for FPS, then dual sticks, and finally the WII.  Motion Plus might change this point (Red Steel 2 baby) but for now the remote isn't as accurate as I would like. 

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

Are you that terrible at pointing?  or you really need those training wheels?

[Rize]

Ian nailed it perfectly.

The Wii is so feature poor (especially since I decidedly prefer analog sticks to motion control) that for me a Wii game has almost no chance of drawing my interest.  From my perspective, a Wii game is a last gen game.  The only way I'm going to be interested in playing a last-gen game is if it is either utterly great/unique (Galaxy, Punch Out, Metroid Prime, Metroid Other M, Zelda) or if I really have nothing better to do.   In which case those games have to compete with the best of last gen that I didn't play yet (off the top of my head): Okami Wii, God of War 1 and 2, Final Fantasy 12, Psychonauts, Beyond Good and Evil, Prince of Persia 2 and 3, Jade Empire, Ratchet and Clank 1, 2 and 3, Sly 1, 2 and 3, Jak 3).  I'd be more inclined to buy the Metroid Prime Trilogy and replay Prime than play any of those games any time soon.

As far as Conduit in particular, do we really need any more shooters?  The only reason I buy things like Killzone 2 is because they look so drop-dead gorgeous.  I could imagine playing Conduit to be a profoundly boring experience.

[Ymeegod]

Nah, what I need is an extra long sensor bar.  The sensitivity is a bit to picky for my taste, I have long arms so i should be able to set a much larger area instead I'm forced to point at the sensor.  I rather move my entire arm like an idiot (like if I wanted to fire at the upper left of the screen I should just be able to point in that direction.

I tired all types of options, like some of those 3rd party sensors, but can't find a solution that suits me.  The Conduit had some nice options but I still had alot more trouble getting headshots in MP than I should. 

Haven't tried anything with MC+ yet.

[Mop it up]

Nah, what I need is an extra long sensor bar.  The sensitivity is a bit to picky for my taste, I have long arms so i should be able to set a much larger area instead I'm forced to point at the sensor.  I rather move my entire arm like an idiot (like if I wanted to fire at the upper left of the screen I should just be able to point in that direction.

I tired all types of options, like some of those 3rd party sensors, but can't find a solution that suits me.  The Conduit had some nice options but I still had alot more trouble getting headshots in MP than I should. 

Did you try adjusting the sensitivity in the Wii menu?

[Stratos]

Nah, what I need is an extra long sensor bar.  The sensitivity is a bit to picky for my taste, I have long arms so i should be able to set a much larger area instead I'm forced to point at the sensor.  I rather move my entire arm like an idiot (like if I wanted to fire at the upper left of the screen I should just be able to point in that direction.

I tired all types of options, like some of those 3rd party sensors, but can't find a solution that suits me.  The Conduit had some nice options but I still had alot more trouble getting headshots in MP than I should. 

Did you try adjusting the sensitivity in the Wii menu?

Don't stand so close to the TV. Move farther back and it should be fine.

[EasyCure]

.
As far as Conduit in particular, do we really need any more shooters?  The only reason I buy things like Killzone 2 is because they look so drop-dead gorgeous.  I could imagine playing Conduit to be a profoundly boring experience.

That is by far the SADDEST thing i ever read on these forums... (not counting Jim's thread in the general chat section)

[NWR_DrewMG]

Clearly he wouldn't buy it if it controlled like garbage, so I don't think that graphics are all that enter into it.  But a game like KillZone 2 is clearly not trying to be revolutionary, it's trying to be evolutionary.  Why is the latter such a bad thing?  If a game has good level design, great graphics and sound, and is fun to play, why does it have to be unique?  I've been playing NCAA Football for years, ever since the day I got my PS2 in 2001.  I've put in probably over 2000 hours total, and I'm still not tired of it.  Is it the same game every year?  Yes.  I still love it.

[EasyCure]

But "Only" implies the sole reason for purchasing the game. If he had said "one of the main/biggest reasons.." it'd be different. The sad truth is there are gamers out there who are blinded by pretty graphics and don't give two shits about play control, sound or any other part of game design. Somehow the looks are SO good to these gamers that nothing else matters, and thats ridiculous to me, but hey i guess I just don't know how to get joygasm from my eyes and am weird for needing a whole experience before i climax Really though, if the ONLY reason you're buying a game is because it looks amazing, you'd probably be the type to go out and buy a nice fancy Ferrari with no engine under the hood.

Oh and innovation had nothing to do with it, because i agree if the game is solid at what its supposed to do, it can still be a very enjoyable game. We're talking about graphics here.