Topic: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword

[EasyCure]

TP did have some things that I liked, i was really happy getting on my Boar
They didn't have the weapon pickup WW had, but they did have Boars!
Its been a while since I played TP though, and i don't remember TP grottos so much, aside from an ice cavern. A tunnel system would be really cool. If the world was round it would be an awesome way to get to china besides boating

the interconnected caves don't count?

[Kytim89]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jJEozi7cEms&feature=related
 
I know this video is for the early reveal of Twilight Princess, but it seems Nintendo left out a lot of this stuff for the gamecube and wii versions. I hope Zelda wii is atleast like what is portrayed in the video, on an aesthetical view point.

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

That was awful.

[Caterkiller]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jJEozi7cEms&feature=related
 
I know this video is for the early reveal of Twilight Princess, but it seems Nintendo left out a lot of this stuff for the gamecube and wii versions. I hope Zelda wii is atleast like what is portrayed in the video, on an aesthetical view point.

It's comments related to this that got us this Zelda in the first place. We don't need another one of these. And even if you think I don't speak for you, trust me brother I speak for you. You don't want that again. We wanted another Oot and boy did we get it.

I remember thinking how cool it was too see all those darker more "realistic" takes on the enemies and environments. Then during the game, I found out the whole blasted game was very dark(light wise) and shaded just like that footage. The sun didn't shine as bright and everything had huge shadow cast over it. Maybe its just me but I really appreciate a really bright sun shiny environment from time to time.

Now I'd like to see a cool blend of the realistic and abstract, with some dark and moody along with some bright and sun shiny.

[Ian Sane]

We wanted another Oot and boy did we get it.

No one wanted to visit the same areas as OoT again.  That's Nintendo's huge ****-up.  They interpretted "we don't like cartoon visuals, particularly when you showed us realistic ones first" as "make OoT over again".  And that sameness is the complaint about TP, not the graphics.  TP is gorgeous to look at, it just plays it too safe in terms of gameplay.
 
I think the biggest outrage regarding Wind Waker was that for years Nintendo had been called kiddy and the fans defended them.  Then they took Zelda, which was on the best examples when arguing that Nintendo doesn't just make kids games, and made it look like a damn kids game after showing a very non-kiddy video first.  You coudn't try harder to piss off your fanbase.  And ever since then this has been the big issue with Zelda and TP turning out too generic just makes it worse.  The thing is WW and TP both have major flaws in them that have nothing to do with graphics so the fanbase will remain divided.  If one style or the other just nailed it with an undisputed masterpiece the issue would be solved - people would want the style the masterpiece used because they would (stupidly) associate the style with the gameplay.
 
We need another OoT in that we need another Zelda that has "greatest game of all time" talk surrounding it.  The Zelda games released since the N64 are kind of like Super Mario Sunshine in that they're good but they're not "best ever" good.  Zelda needs a Super Mario Galaxy.

[BeautifulShy]

Sorry but everybody on the internet at the time of the windwaker reveal said that that Nintendo should go back to OOT.
As far as the split fanbase as far as graphics go. Both are acceptable styles.

As far as the Zelda series needing a Galaxy well I personally think that the 2 D games top it and I think that Zelda needs to go back to the roots of the franchise.

[ThePerm]

This TP was just an OOt remake talk always annoys me, sure there were similar themed zones, but one should expect similar zones. Sonic and Mario follow the same format. It reminds me of people who hate OOt because its too much like alttp. Oot didnt have a Sky World, an Alien World, and its ice section was really limited. You couldn't turn into a Wolf. I had a damn good time playing TP, and I liked the fan service. That being said the only way to please you guys is to expand out of Hyrule, which really does seem to have a set geography. I'd like it if they built a huge round world with oceans and continents, maybe Hyrule could shrink in size. The problem with having too big a world is as it expands it becomes sparser in game design. The New Wii Zeda i think is probably going to go the Final Fantasy XIII route and you're all going to hate it. I'll reserve my predictions until I see it at e3. Hehe Caterkiller, adjust the brightness and saturation on your TV!

[Armak88]

Bravo theperm, I also loved TP. If it were a little more difficult (especially the bosses) it would have had a more sustainable impact on me. I get the criticism against it, but let's not fool ourselves, TP was a fantastic game. I enjoyed playing as a wolf, it felt different than being a person and different than riding a horse. I was wowed when I got the iron boots so early in the game and then got magnetized to the ceiling. I didn't see the ball and chain or the spinner coming in by a long shot. That doesn't mean that I think the game is perfect, but I had a damn good time playing it.

What I want more than anything is more opportunities to use the items you get. The 2D games are much better at this. I am tired of items becoming essentially useless once you defeat the boss of the dungeon they are in. It seems like only the usual zelda items (bow, bombs and hookshot) get to be used more than in their own dungeon and a few isolated instances in the overworld. By the end of the game you usually have more than 10 items you can use, I want to see bosses and puzzles in the later dungeons that make me use these items in interesting combinations.

I also think that part of the problem comes from the story. Nothing is ever going to be more fundamental to the zelda mythos as OoT. Wind Waker was probably the best that Nintendo could have done to follow it up from that standpoint.

I get where you guys come from when you say we don't want another OoT, but I think that you are misinformed about what old OoT fans want. I have a couple friends who are these people. Haven't played a zelda since OoT and have been waiting for zelda to be "cool like OoT was" again. MM was stupid because there was a time limit and you had to play as a stupid tree kid. WW was gay because it was a cartoon. TP was stupid because "I don't want to play as some gay wolf." These are the same people who buy one cloned FPS after another and the reason I don't care and don't want nintendo to care about what makes Zelda popular. Instead be more concerned with what makes a GOOD zelda game and let that find an audience (because it will). As far as I'm concerned, we can leave those type of fans behind.

[ThePerm]

speaking of item use, ill alert people on my game idea, because im not sure if ill be going into the game industry or not

anyways its my idea called Rival

its just like Zelda except there are redundant dungeons, meaning there are items that have essentially the same function(for getting into dungeons..maybe with more then one function to keep them different), but because your given no particular order on which dungeons to go to then it becomes even more non-linear. The deal is though there is another character, your Rival who is also going through the dungeons independently of you. Its possible that your rival may get items and block you from getting further in the game, at which point your going to have to get really clever and figure out a way to ambush him. Defeating him means he drops the weapon you need for the next level. Kinda like Ash and Gary, but revved up 10 notches.

[Kytim89]

Nintendo has a unique way of reinventing the wheel when it comes to their franchises. Although the games may seem like a rehash, they always bring something new and unique to the table. Something that Nintendo can capitalize on for the next game. I can certainly see the point that TP is a rehash of OoT, but both games have such a quality to them that seem like they have almost nothing in regards to rehashing. Play both games consecutive and they seem worlds apart, at least to me that is.
 
One I want above all else for what ever the new game had in store is bigger, more massive boss battles. I want the biggest and baddest enemies to ever grace a Nintendo console. I want the bosses to be as epic as possible. Basically nothing that we have seen from past iterations of the series.
 
I may get chased out of this forum for saying this but I am going to do it any way. I think Nintendo will borrow elements from such HD as God of War 3, Mass Effect 2, Assassin's Creed 2, Fable 2, Final Fantasy 13, and possibly Gears of War. I would like to hear from all of about what these elements actually are and then debate them.

[BeautifulShy]

Nintendo has a unique way of reinventing the wheel when it comes to their franchises. Although the games may seem like a rehash, they always bring something new and unique to the table. Something that Nintendo can capitalize on for the next game. I can certainly see the point that TP is a rehash of OoT, but both games have such a quality to them that seem like they have almost nothing in regards to rehashing. Play both games consecutive and they seem worlds apart, at least to me that is.
 
One I want above all else for what ever the new game had in store is bigger, more massive boss battles. I want the biggest and baddest enemies to ever grace a Nintendo console. I want the bosses to be as epic as possible. Basically nothing that we have seen from past iterations of the series.
 
I may get chased out of this forum for saying this but I am going to do it any way. I think Nintendo will borrow elements from such HD as God of War 3, Mass Effect 2, Assassin's Creed 2, Fable 2, Final Fantasy 13, and possibly Gears of War. I would like to hear from all of about what these elements actually are and then debate them.

You know Kytim I agree with your point about Nintendo adding things to the series each instalment. They do that. I think possibly the question I would ask you is are they good additions?

Your second point I am going to say that Twilight Princess had epic boss battles.There was a urgentcy to them and they were grand.Windwaker had this as well.

As for your last point I haven't played any of those games so I need to know what exactly you would add to Zelda from those games?

[Caterkiller]

I'll say it again just in case I came across too negative, but I did enjoy TP, I really really did. I guess I just have child like tastes and 2 key things I love were not met. 1 - Its not so bad, but I thought there were too many dark and gritty environments compared to the sunshiny ones. Not a big deal I know, but something about the brightness of Zora's domain and the way the sun shined in OoT will stick with me forever.

2nd thing that I complained about since the game released was the tunes in the game. There were not enough happy go lucky themes, or awesome themes like the over world. I felt Nintendo tried to get too moody into it and no songs were allowed to have a full on melody. Actually I know nothing about how music is structured but what I mean to say is the music never ever takes off. Example 1: the goron city outside the volcano. It starts off really awesome but never takes off like first song did, it keeps repeating that same little beat over and over. 2: The last castle that played the Zelda 2 music. Again you can here the awesomeness of the classic song but then it never takes off, it stays at that same little opening beat the whole way through.

The best song in the game was the boat and shooting arrow bombs mini game music. A tune you can hum later on.

WW had music that I will never forget, each town that actually meant something had music that I love to listen to on a regular basis. Wish there was more like that in TP.

[Kytim89]

Nintendo has a unique way of reinventing the wheel when it comes to their franchises. Although the games may seem like a rehash, they always bring something new and unique to the table. Something that Nintendo can capitalize on for the next game. I can certainly see the point that TP is a rehash of OoT, but both games have such a quality to them that seem like they have almost nothing in regards to rehashing. Play both games consecutive and they seem worlds apart, at least to me that is.
 
One I want above all else for what ever the new game had in store is bigger, more massive boss battles. I want the biggest and baddest enemies to ever grace a Nintendo console. I want the bosses to be as epic as possible. Basically nothing that we have seen from past iterations of the series.
 
I may get chased out of this forum for saying this but I am going to do it any way. I think Nintendo will borrow elements from such HD as God of War 3, Mass Effect 2, Assassin's Creed 2, Fable 2, Final Fantasy 13, and possibly Gears of War. I would like to hear from all of about what these elements actually are and then debate them.

You know Kytim I agree with your point about Nintendo adding things to the series each instalment. They do that. I think possibly the question I would ask you is are they good additions?

Your second point I am going to say that Twilight Princess had epic boss battles.There was a urgentcy to them and they were grand.Windwaker had this as well.

As for your last point I haven't played any of those games so I need to know what exactly you would add to Zelda from those games?

The Twilight Princess bosses were with out a doubt massive, but they left me feeling as if they could have been more massive. The sky dragon towards the end was very good.
 
As for whether the additions to each installment are good or not is a double answer. It seems like Nintendo should have had the forsight to make the TP over world much grander. However, if there is a lot of wasted space in the next game, then they have not brought any thing new to the table. Basically Nintendo is allowed to rehash old stuff on the strict basis that they bring new stuff and a fresh perspective. This fresh perspective is the reason why the art style for each game is different from each other(ie WW vs TP).
 
I have never played those game either, but from what I have heared and seen from youtube they are very massive and epic. I want Nintendo to take the sheer style of those games and blend them with the new Zelda. Of course this may sound stupid because the wii is an inferior system with no hope of challenging these games on their own ground. However, I do not know of a proper way to get my point accross with out falling back to that problem. Give me a few days to think and I will return with some idea after I research these games.
 
Laslty, I have a very strong feeling in my bones that this game will symbolize the next evolutionary step in gaming in regards to how the palyer and the game interact much in the same way as 3D. Perhaps my expectations are too high, but I feel as though this game may be so massive that Nintendo will not be able to surpass it in quality for a very long time.

[Ian Sane]

This TP was just an OOt remake talk always annoys me, sure there were similar themed zones, but one should expect similar zones.

Did you play the Wii or the Cube version?  The Cube version has the unflipped map and the areas are in the exact same place as they are in OoT except that Zora's Domain and Laky Hylia are switched.  So once I figured the pattern I looked at my incomplete map and said "well Death Mountain will be here and the desert will be here" and I guessed the rest of the world aside from the water bodies switching.  That was really lame and really hurt the sense of exploration that Zelda typically has.  Hyrule is in LttP as well but Oot's map isn't the exact same thing.  It has a few similarities but that's it.  Hell, there were no Gorons or Gerudos in previous Zeldas.
 
The thing is Nintendo has never really gotten Hyrule "standarized".  It changes too much in each game.  But with TP it was by far the closest it ever had been to the Hyrule of a different game.  I just got used to them using the same name and few landmarks like Death Mountain and otherwise doing whatever, but they didn't do it that time.  Overall I thought TP was awesome and I think it's better than Wind Waker.  But that similar world map REALLY hurt the game for me.  And it appears I'm not alone in thinking that.
 
If you can guess the game before it happens then they need to stray a bit from the pattern.

[BeautifulShy]

I think that the reason that Hyrule changes so often is that each game is like 100s of years after the previous ones. Worlds change over time. Things move around.
As far as Gorons and Gurudos  not being in the 2D games I think it has to do with the technology at the time of the NES and SNES.

[Ian Sane]

As far as Gorons and Gurudos  not being in the 2D games I think it has to do with the technology at the time of the NES and SNES.

So Nintendo thought of these rock guys for the previous games but just couldn't do it until the N64?  I think it's more likely they didn't come up with the idea until OoT.  And the Gerudos aren't an idea that needs any extra horsepower anyway.
 
I think with any franchise there will be a period where new ideas are being introduced all the time as the series tries to establish an identity.  The problem comes once the identity is established so it becomes more about following a formula.  Zelda started to get stale once we could say "this is Zelda".  That's what TP is.  It's a Zelda game made after the formula was set and adheres to it.  I think it requires a conscious effort from a developer to not allow this to happen and to keep the flow of new ideas.
 
You run the risk of the new ideas not clicking with the fans of course but that's just the way it is.  To create a truly special Zelda game I think you have to strip Zelda back and determine what you need to keep and what can change.  You don't need a village named Karkariko or for Link to get a hookshot.  Those are details.  What you need is a hero named Link who goes an adventure and the place is one connected world and all combat and action is done in realtime.  That's what Zelda is, not Triforces and Zoras.  I'm not saying to rip all those details out, but never feel that they HAVE to be there.
 
Nintendo wasn't afraid to change things up with Wind Waker so I give them credit for that.  I just didn't like the specific changes they made with the graphic bait-and-switch and the big blue ocean of nothing.  That's the risk you take but don't be afraid to try to take that risk again.

[MoronSonOfBoron]

As far as the Zelda series needing a Galaxy well I personally think that the 2 D games top it and I think that Zelda needs to go back to the roots of the franchise.

Perhaps a synthesis of old and new

Perhaps Zelda: Other Z

[BeautifulShy]

As far as the Zelda series needing a Galaxy well I personally think that the 2 D games top it and I think that Zelda needs to go back to the roots of the franchise.

Perhaps a synthesis of old and new

Perhaps Zelda: Other Z

Like the idea but the excution has to be good.

[ThePerm]

n previous games gorons and zoras were enemies

I played TP on Wii, so the world didn't seem too much the same, it seemed more like it was referencing the games than rehashing

[Luigi Dude]

This TP was just an OOt remake talk always annoys me, sure there were similar themed zones, but one should expect similar zones.

Did you play the Wii or the Cube version?  The Cube version has the unflipped map and the areas are in the exact same place as they are in OoT except that Zora's Domain and Laky Hylia are switched.  So once I figured the pattern I looked at my incomplete map and said "well Death Mountain will be here and the desert will be here" and I guessed the rest of the world aside from the water bodies switching.  That was really lame and really hurt the sense of exploration that Zelda typically has.  Hyrule is in LttP as well but Oot's map isn't the exact same thing.  It has a few similarities but that's it.  Hell, there were no Gorons or Gerudos in previous Zeldas.
 
The thing is Nintendo has never really gotten Hyrule "standarized".  It changes too much in each game.  But with TP it was by far the closest it ever had been to the Hyrule of a different game.  I just got used to them using the same name and few landmarks like Death Mountain and otherwise doing whatever, but they didn't do it that time.  Overall I thought TP was awesome and I think it's better than Wind Waker.  But that similar world map REALLY hurt the game for me.  And it appears I'm not alone in thinking that.
 
If you can guess the game before it happens then they need to stray a bit from the pattern.

Just because the area's are located in the same spots on the map doesn't make it the same when the said area's are 100% different from their Ocarina of Time counterparts.  The point of exploration in Zelda games is to explore what's in the actual area's themselves, not to freak out over where they are on a map.

Had Nintendo actually reused the designs of each area as well as what is in each one, then you'd have a good point.  But they didn't and each area is vastly different from what they were in OOT.  To call TP a rehash of OOT just because of what's on the maps is just plain nitpicking for something to complain about.

[Ian Sane]

Just because the area's are located in the same spots on the map doesn't make it the same when the said area's are 100% different from their Ocarina of Time counterparts.  The point of exploration in Zelda games is to explore what's in the actual area's themselves, not to freak out over where they are on a map.

They're not 100% different.  They're like 50% different.  I go to where a village is in OoT and there's a village there in TP.  I go to where a mountain with Gorons living in it are in OoT and there's a mountain with Gorons living there in TP.  That took a huge amount of the thrill of exploration away from me.  To me it's like Punch-Out.  Yeah the guys with the same appearance and name of the NES guys use a different pattern in the Wii version.  But it's still only ONE new character and that just comes across as really lazy.
 
The thing is Nintendo could have made completely different areas in the game.  They did that with Majora's Mask, they did that with Wind Waker and even Ocarina of Time's Hyrule was quite different from A Link to the Past's.  TP's world reaked of lazy design, like Nintendo figured they could reuse the same locales and chop some time off of the design phase.  I'm not going to tolerate cutting corners like that.  Even cookie-cutter sequels can say they technically have different levels but I don't consider that good enough.  This is ZELDA and that name brings with it the highest standards.

[Halbred]

Honestly, Nintendo's been remaking Zelda since Link to the Past. Wind Waker was the biggest change-up, but the backlash was so severe (at the time) that I think they backpeddled way too far. They are EXTREMELY conservative about the series, especially game flow, even in Wind Waker. Moreso than Mario. I'd also offer up Metroid as the one Nintendo series you could point to against Nintendo's "kiddie" image.

As for content in Zelda Wii, I'm still going with my hope that you are a non-Link character in the game, and you see that hero from afar. Your quests are on parallel paths, and only towards the end of the game do your goals become unified. That kind of a story--if you do it right--could carry real emotional and mythological WEIGHT.

[Kytim89]

For some reason when I watch the first five minutes of Mad Max 3 I get this stron feeling of Legend of Zelda for reason. I just like the idea of an adult Link wandering a desert draped in a black cloak covering his tunic with his sword handle sticking out of the back wandering into a town or city looking for Navie or some one else.

[Guitar Smasher]

For some reason when I watch the first five minutes of Mad Max 3 I get this stron feeling of Legend of Zelda for reason. I just like the idea of an adult Link wandering a desert draped in a black cloak covering his tunic with his sword handle sticking out of the back wandering into a town or city looking for Navie or some one else.

I'm sorry but this reeks of style over substance.

And regards to your earlier post about having a feeling about this game being so evolutionary, I have a feeling that you're going to be terribly disappointed.  Let's face it, it's pretty much the same team making it, that made the last game.  Where's the innovation going to come from.  At best, I think they can achieve a TP that isn't as formulaic.  But they aren't going to make the game of the decade.

[ThePerm]

mad max revival is a big fad of collective knowledge

for some reason i get into mad max...everyone does!