Author Topic: Dragon Quest X - Megaton Non-Surprise!  (Read 42373 times)

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Offline Kairon

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Re: Dragon Quest X - Megaton Non-Surprise!
« Reply #100 on: December 12, 2008, 04:49:31 PM »
I think what fans react to in this situation is the insinuation that Nintendo made bad decisions. With the Wii's commercial success, it's pretty difficult to categorize Nintendo's moves as negative given the grand scheme of things. Rather, Nintendo made controversial decisions, with both good and bad effects, for which they must account for today, regardless of any resulting success.
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Offline Pale

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Re: Dragon Quest X - Megaton Non-Surprise!
« Reply #101 on: December 12, 2008, 05:04:09 PM »
But I think it's still possible that in their overall good decision... bad decisions were made.

For example, why can I buy a 4 gig SD card for 20 bucks, but they could only put 512 megs of internal memory in the system? :)
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Offline Kairon

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Re: Dragon Quest X - Megaton Non-Surprise!
« Reply #102 on: December 12, 2008, 05:06:42 PM »
Think how much more serious shortages might have been if they put more stress on the already explosive flash memory market &P.
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Offline IceCold

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Re: Dragon Quest X - Megaton Non-Surprise!
« Reply #103 on: December 12, 2008, 05:13:47 PM »
Are we honestly still having this argument again? *sigh*
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Offline Kairon

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Re: Dragon Quest X - Megaton Non-Surprise!
« Reply #104 on: December 12, 2008, 05:15:54 PM »
Are we honestly still having this argument again? *sigh*

Hehe, have we fallen into the familiar NWR habit of derailing conversations?
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Offline Adrock

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Re: Dragon Quest X - Megaton Non-Surprise!
« Reply #105 on: December 12, 2008, 05:24:05 PM »
Okay, let's try this.

With DQX coming to Wii, what are the chances that Square Enix will develop FFXIV for the Wii, or at least also on the Wii? I say better than ever but still slim... though I never thought FFXIII would come to 360 so anything could happen. Square Enix did spend millions upon millions on The Last Remant and that game sucks nutsack (multiple nutsacks, in fact). If they're smart (and that's a ginormous if) they'll realize that HD-ifying a game can't mask sh*tty gameplay.

Offline Kairon

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Re: Dragon Quest X - Megaton Non-Surprise!
« Reply #106 on: December 12, 2008, 05:29:07 PM »
I'm pretty willing to say it won't happen Adrock. SE already has a Nintendo specific FF franchise as Crystal Chronicles, and I'd actually be happy with CC if they just pushed that to be the best it could be.
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Offline NinGurl69 *huggles

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Re: Dragon Quest X - Megaton Non-Surprise!
« Reply #107 on: December 12, 2008, 05:31:09 PM »
lol you mean the FFCC they cancelled
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Offline NWR_Lindy

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Re: Dragon Quest X - Megaton Non-Surprise!
« Reply #108 on: December 12, 2008, 05:42:07 PM »
Insinuating that Bill is a drug user?  Nope.  It was a simple figure of speech.  And as far as Mario calling me a retard, well, he's the expert.

The PS2 wasn't as powerful as GC/Xbox, but it wasn't a full generation behind either.  When the Wii makes a game with graphics as beautiful as Gears of War 2, let me know (that's everybody's cue to start bashing GoW2...come on, I know you want to).  Hopefully somebody will make something like Team Fortress 2, since its art style would look great on the platform.





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Offline Kairon

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Re: Dragon Quest X - Megaton Non-Surprise!
« Reply #109 on: December 12, 2008, 06:09:30 PM »
The PS2 wasn't as powerful as GC/Xbox, but it wasn't a full generation behind either.  When the Wii makes a game with graphics as beautiful as Gears of War 2, let me know (that's everybody's cue to start bashing GoW2...come on, I know you want to).  Hopefully somebody will make something like Team Fortress 2, since its art style would look great on the platform.

It's an interesting coincidence that both GoW2 and Team Fortress 2 are games based around guns...

BTW Lindy, where would you rate Mario Galaxy on that scale? Because I think it's generally accepted that Wii graphics won't get any better than that, so it would be generally pointless to wait, or demand, anything that Mario Galaxy couldn't reach.
Carmine Red, Associate Editor

A glooming peace this morning with it brings;
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Go hence, to have more talk of these sad things;
Some shall be pardon'd, and some punished:
For never was a story of more woe
Than this of Sega and her Mashiro.

Offline NWR_pap64

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Re: Dragon Quest X - Megaton Non-Surprise!
« Reply #110 on: December 12, 2008, 07:42:51 PM »
Okay, let's try this.

With DQX coming to Wii, what are the chances that Square Enix will develop FFXIV for the Wii, or at least also on the Wii? I say better than ever but still slim... though I never thought FFXIII would come to 360 so anything could happen. Square Enix did spend millions upon millions on The Last Remant and that game sucks nutsack (multiple nutsacks, in fact). If they're smart (and that's a ginormous if) they'll realize that HD-ifying a game can't mask sh*tty gameplay.

I see KH3 (or a KH Spin Off like Birth by Sleep) making it first. Final Fantasy XIV...it all depends on how XIII performs on the 360 and PS3. If the game fails to see the sales that the older FF games got then rest assure they will look for other options.

Pro: I think Kairon is talking about the new multiplayer CC game.
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Offline NinGurl69 *huggles

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Re: Dragon Quest X - Megaton Non-Surprise!
« Reply #111 on: December 12, 2008, 08:29:59 PM »
I know, just teasing, but FFCC is still a lol-worthy pathetic existance on Wii.

Echoes of Time is a simulatenous DS port, with DS graphics on a fraction of an HDTV screenspace, and is a simple "retry" of the under-amibitious GameCube disaster.  It's what the original GameCube-GBA combo should've been: a go-anywhere multiplayer RPG experience.  But i'm not falling for that trap again!

Crystal Bears, on the other hand, is sharing the same fate as FF13.
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Offline Deguello

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Re: Dragon Quest X - Megaton Non-Surprise!
« Reply #112 on: December 12, 2008, 09:02:03 PM »
Quote
Insinuating that Bill is a drug user?  Nope.  It was a simple figure of speech.

You'd be surprised what insulting and disrespectful things become common through usage.  You'd have to be an idiot not to know that.  (There's one.)  "Retarded" has become so common that the insult has been drained of meaning, but it still is rather offensive.  "I'd like some of what you're smoking..." insinuates that either the person is directed at is either a) stupid or b) on a drug that's influencing his mind.  Just because there are some layers that obfuscate doesn't mean that what it implies isn't being said.  And some people take great offense at being called druggies, either due to hatred of the insipid culture or having had drug problems with family or friends.  Just like "retarded."

Quote
The PS2 wasn't as powerful as GC/Xbox, but it wasn't a full generation behind either.  When the Wii makes a game with graphics as beautiful as Gears of War 2, let me know (that's everybody's cue to start bashing GoW2...come on, I know you want to).  Hopefully somebody will make something like Team Fortress 2, since its art style would look great on the platform.

What does Wii having to make games that look as good as Gears of War have to do with what "generation" it belongs to?  Ps2 never had a game to looked as good as Halo 2 or Resident Evil 4 or Metroid Prime or the Xbox versions of Splinter Cell.  Does that mean it wasn't in the same "generation?"  Was it then a "generation behind?" That doesn't seem to make sense.

Go look up some of the PS2's launch titles.  Seriously, some looked worse than the PS1's.  You can even see the difference in the PS2 versions of those games, particularly RE4 in which all the models were severely downgraded, the AI was turned off, the environment stripped, and the cutscenes that run in realtime on the GC were movies of the GC version running.

The only time the PS2 even approached GC and Xbox graphics were when the developer hunkered down and gave it a good effort.  Then it passed for a mediocre GC or Xbox game.  The PS2 did this a lot because it was the market leader, and similar things will and have happened for the Wii, particularly from Japanese devs now that it has been cemented as their console of choice.  You can be cynical about it but, historically and without fail, this has happened.

And to end, arguing about generations is silly, because there probably won't be any more graphical generations left after this.  MS and Sony are going to have a lot of trouble passing the j.n.d. for this generation to the next (that's "just noticeable difference" for those of you who've never taken a marketing class), meaning, without new HD resolutions to climb to, they will have to invest heavily in a graphics card that only barely makes a noticeable difference.  Compare that to Nintendo, who only has to walk into a Fry's or a CompUSA today and grab an off the shelf graphics card that's 3 times better than the 360's for $200.  I'm not saying graphics will never get better, ever, but the prohibitive cost and time of doing so has been greatly magnified to the point of actually hurting the companies who try.  You think if Square Enix was going to make the decision today, do you think they'd choose to put FFXIII on the PS3, knowing it would take them an immense amount of money, 5 years to complete, and would launch on the loser last-place nobody-owns-it console?  I'd wager no, because their sales have fallen 75% just this year, because FFXIII has sucked up all their resources to the point that they don't have any product on shelves.  They'd choose Wii in a heartbeat and deal with a moderate boost in graphics over mega graphics and low userbase.  They'd choose products on shelves instead of floating aimlessly on a dev schedule.  That's why the smart side of Square Enix decided to put DQX on the Wii, and that's why a lot more things will be on the Wii in the future, and some will be in genres that have somehow been "banned" from the Wii.
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Offline NWR_Lindy

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Re: Dragon Quest X - Megaton Non-Surprise!
« Reply #113 on: December 12, 2008, 09:46:39 PM »
Doing drugs is retarded.  That's all I'm going to say.
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Offline GoldenPhoenix

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Re: Dragon Quest X - Megaton Non-Surprise!
« Reply #114 on: December 12, 2008, 10:29:11 PM »
The PS2 wasn't as powerful as GC/Xbox, but it wasn't a full generation behind either.  When the Wii makes a game with graphics as beautiful as Gears of War 2, let me know (that's everybody's cue to start bashing GoW2...come on, I know you want to).  Hopefully somebody will make something like Team Fortress 2, since its art style would look great on the platform.

It's an interesting coincidence that both GoW2 and Team Fortress 2 are games based around guns...

BTW Lindy, where would you rate Mario Galaxy on that scale? Because I think it's generally accepted that Wii graphics won't get any better than that, so it would be generally pointless to wait, or demand, anything that Mario Galaxy couldn't reach.

I am ashamed of you Kairon, to group the artistically creative and coloirful TF2 with the bland, generic, brown, desolate lands that are populated by testorone infused freaks of nature.

Also I'd take a visual style like Mario Galaxy over anything that looks like GoW
« Last Edit: December 12, 2008, 10:31:28 PM by GoldenPhoenix »
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Offline KDR_11k

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Re: Dragon Quest X - Megaton Non-Surprise!
« Reply #115 on: December 13, 2008, 03:39:35 AM »
Great, by the time I get here and want to tell Ian that if he wants a 360 he should buy a 360, not a Wii people have rerailed the thread already. Why did that guy even buy a Wii? Didn't he refuse to buy a DS because it's too "non-game"? Then why did he buy a Wii when not much was available for it and now complains that it's not a 360?

Offline NWR_pap64

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Re: Dragon Quest X - Megaton Non-Surprise!
« Reply #116 on: December 13, 2008, 03:46:25 AM »
Great, by the time I get here and want to tell Ian that if he wants a 360 he should buy a 360, not a Wii people have rerailed the thread already. Why did that guy even buy a Wii? Didn't he refuse to buy a DS because it's too "non-game"? Then why did he buy a Wii when not much was available for it and now complains that it's not a 360?

If he honestly refused to buy a DS because it had a few non-games then why are we even arguing with the guy?
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Offline Ian Sane

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Re: Dragon Quest X - Megaton Non-Surprise!
« Reply #117 on: December 15, 2008, 01:53:20 PM »
Quote
And to end, arguing about generations is silly, because there probably won't be any more graphical generations left after this.

I figure Nintendo needs one more for the simple reason that the Wii doesn't support HD and this will be a required feature in a few years.  Hell, I felt it was a required feature when the Wii launched.

But other than that I agree we at least don't need another one, even if we do get one.  To me the need for better console hardware was always obvious, based on the existence of games that the existing console couldn't handle.  In the past the arcades were the standard.  You couldn't get arcade perfect ports with the current consoles and you saw the clear need to step up.  By last generation we were at the point where with arcades there was no step up.  Arcade games like Soul Calibur are more-or-less considered console games now.  Hell the console versions are BETTER now.

But we still had PCs.  Last gen we were still noticing that Doom 3 has some framerate issues on the Xbox that it didn't have if you had the right PC hardware.  Now they develop the PC, PS3 and Xbox 360 versions at the same time and there's no obvious graphical advantage to the PC version.  If we were to have a standard videogame console format (like DVDs or CDs) hardware comparable to the PS3 or Xbox 360 would be a good choice.  There's no clear game we can point to and say "hey we need better hardware to do that!"  Could graphics be better?  Sure.  But the cost of doing so probably wouldn't be worth it.

Nintendo still needs a boost though because there are games I can point to and say "graphically the Wii can't handle this".  We couldn't make the Wii hardware the standard because there would be a lot of games that wouldn't be able to be ported to it, even if they used the classic controller.

Quote
Great, by the time I get here and want to tell Ian that if he wants a 360 he should buy a 360, not a Wii people have rerailed the thread already. Why did that guy even buy a Wii? Didn't he refuse to buy a DS because it's too "non-game"? Then why did he buy a Wii when not much was available for it and now complains that it's not a 360?

I have a DS.  I didn't initially buy one because the DS lineup absolutely SUCKED at first.  I could have bought one but there was nothing I wanted to buy for it so I waited about a year.  I did the same thing with the Wii because at first the one game that was out that I was interested in was Twilight Princess which I could and did buy on the Cube, with controls I would have preferred anyway.

I have a Wii because Nintendo makes the best damn games.  Same reason I bought the Cube.  I want good third party support as well but if made to pick between Nintendo's first party games and third party games I would still pick Nintendo.  The only problem is now Nintendo is not as consistent with their first party games as they used to be.  It's mostly sequels for core gamers, new stuff for non-gamers these days which is kind of dull.  I bought the Wii shortly before Metroid Prime 3 came out and with that and Super Mario Galaxy and SSB Brawl on the way it looked like at the very least there was some must-play first party games I would need a Wii for.  Since E3 I've been rethinking that purchase a fair bit.  While I'm interested in S&P2 (Punch-Out is iffy since screens suggest a possible remake and the dev is unproven) there isn't really any other exclusives that I'm anticipating.  I would like to know what EAD, IS and Retro are working on since they're kind of the "big three" Nintendo devs and their output is really more what I would buy a Nintendo console for.

I was iffy about Nintendo's commitment to core gamers when I bought a Wii and since then their actions have made that feeling worse.  Dragon Quest X however gives me a lot more hope.  I don't know if I would buy Dragon Quest X or not.  It is kind of an archaic RPG series and we haven't even had any details revealed yet.  But it could change things around a lot.  Let's put it this way: this announcement has convinced me to put off a potential PS3 purchase for the time being to see where things go. :)

Offline KDR_11k

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Re: Dragon Quest X - Megaton Non-Surprise!
« Reply #118 on: December 15, 2008, 03:17:26 PM »
There's no clear game we can point to and say "hey we need better hardware to do that!"

Crysis?

Quote
Could graphics be better?  Sure.  But the cost of doing so probably wouldn't be worth it.

Thing is, Nintendo figured this applies to the Wii's graphics and they turned out to be right. It may not be enough for you but it was enough for tons of people.

Offline Ian Sane

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Re: Dragon Quest X - Megaton Non-Surprise!
« Reply #119 on: December 15, 2008, 06:46:22 PM »
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Thing is, Nintendo figured this applies to the Wii's graphics and they turned out to be right. It may not be enough for you but it was enough for tons of people.

Tons of people... who never really played videogames before or hadn't in decades and are either ignorant of better graphics being available or are not interested enough to care.  It's the Wii strategy in a nutshell.  When presented with constructive criticism Nintendo's solution was to present their work to people who are less critical.

But again we're busting out the "Nintendo's sales means you're wrong" style argument which I really don't think should matter to, well, ANYONE on this site.  This isn't Forbes, this in NWR.  We should all be fans of Nintendo because of our perceived quality of their games and videogame systems.  It's not just our team that we're cheering to win.  This is liking being on a film lover's site and arguing that Transformers should have won Film of the Year at the Oscars because it made so much money.

The Playstation 2 was better than the Gamecube because it sold more.  More people bought it so it must have been better.  Do you agree with this statement?

Offline Chozo Ghost

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Re: Dragon Quest X - Megaton Non-Surprise!
« Reply #120 on: December 16, 2008, 01:26:27 AM »
I figure Nintendo needs one more for the simple reason that the Wii doesn't support HD and this will be a required feature in a few years.  Hell, I felt it was a required feature when the Wii launched.

I don't. We recently got an HD TV and HD channels here recently, and it is marginally better than the regular channels, but frankly I don't see what the big deal is with it. You just pay a great deal more for a barely noticeable improvement in quality, and for me it just isn't worth it. Sure its a little bit nice having a slightly sharper picture, but if getting that better quality means having to pay $59.99 per game instead of the traditional $49.99 then I'd rather do without.
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Offline Kairon

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Re: Dragon Quest X - Megaton Non-Surprise!
« Reply #121 on: December 16, 2008, 01:58:15 AM »
But again we're busting out the "Nintendo's sales means you're wrong" style argument which I really don't think should matter to, well, ANYONE on this site.  This isn't Forbes, this in NWR.  We should all be fans of Nintendo because of our perceived quality of their games and videogame systems.  It's not just our team that we're cheering to win.  This is liking being on a film lover's site and arguing that Transformers should have won Film of the Year at the Oscars because it made so much money.

I don't know. I think there's a subtle difference between being a fan of Nintendo games and Nintendo. I propose that there are indeed those gamers who feel that Nintendo's output is exploring a direction away from what they perceived Nintendo to represent in the past. However, I also believe that it's possible to be a gamer who isn't attached to a single predefinition of what a Nintendo game is, or what a videogame should be, and instead a fan of the exploration that Nintendo is enacting in gaming, which can come in a package like Mario Galaxy, or in something like Wii Fit.

The Playstation 2 was better than the Gamecube because it sold more.  More people bought it so it must have been better.  Do you agree with this statement?

Look, I loved the GameCube. But did it expand the market and bring in new people to play DDR, GTA, or Guitar Hero? On that metric I HAVE to give the PlayStation 2 precedence even though I didn't own it, simply because it was a system for which my criticisms are outweighed by its strengths. Would I PERSONALLY have been happy with a PS2 but not a GameCube? Hmm.... probably not, even for all my platform envy.

The two conclusions are separate and independent of each other. The PS2 was an overall better system, but it wouldn't have suited me as well as the GameCube. My criticisms with the GameCube, though, are another matter.
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Offline KDR_11k

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Re: Dragon Quest X - Megaton Non-Surprise!
« Reply #122 on: December 16, 2008, 05:08:22 AM »
You know, the PS2 simply WAS better than the Gamecube due to its gigantic software library.

I'm thinking your cut-off line for graphics that "the HD gen is good enough" is arbitrary and if the Wii/HD split happened next gen you'd still hold that gen's more powerful systems as the cut-off line. You just drew the line because you haven't seen any better and therefore cannot imagine any better.

Offline Chozo Ghost

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Re: Dragon Quest X - Megaton Non-Surprise!
« Reply #123 on: December 16, 2008, 09:00:24 AM »
There's gotta be at least one more major advance in gaming graphics before we can say they've reached a cut-off point. I'm talking about 3D holographic stuff. HD is fine and dandy, but its still 2-dimensional. Gaming systems will have to make that next leap before they will be able to deliver content that is indistinguishable from real life.

Only when we can run holographic simulations ala Star Trek TNG+ will we have reached the final advances in gaming.
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Offline Ian Sane

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Re: Dragon Quest X - Megaton Non-Surprise!
« Reply #124 on: December 16, 2008, 01:00:35 PM »
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I'm thinking your cut-off line for graphics that "the HD gen is good enough" is arbitrary and if the Wii/HD split happened next gen you'd still hold that gen's more powerful systems as the cut-off line. You just drew the line because you haven't seen any better and therefore cannot imagine any better.

I think the fact I haven't seen better and cannot imagine better is notable because this is the first time in videogame history that has happened.  As I mentioned there was always something very tangible you could see that required better hardware than the current consoles whether it be arcade games or PC games.  All throughout videogame history it was easy to imagine what the next console would be capable of... until now.