Topic: Dragon Quest X - Megaton Non-Surprise!

[Pale]

Ya know, I think I'm wrong too... it probably isn't as extreme as N64 to Cube, but I think it's significantly larger than PS2 to XBox.

Also, Lindy's original comment is really comparing the PS2 to say the 360... as he was saying that the PS2 still has the largest market share... at least that's how I read it.

Whenever this argument comes up, people need to realize which basis ther people are using for the argument.  So many people get so heated about this...

For example, one could just be arguing whether the low power decision was good for Nintendo as a company.  I don't see how anyone could argue agains that.

However, one could also be saying that the low power decision was bad for THEM as a player.  For example, every time I play my PS3 I wish the Wii could make my HD TV look just as pretty.  Every time I see screenshots of big PS3 titles like White Knight's Chronicles or FF 13, I imagine how great a Zelda that is that pretty would be.  I'm one of the gamers that would have paid 500 bucks for a super powerful Wii... so for me, I can't help but wish they did it. =P

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

"I'm one of the gamers that would have paid 500 bucks for a super powerful Wii."

Niche gamer.  Get with the times, kay.

Wii's low power consumption ruins its utility as a space heater.  Nintendo really doesn't understand families' needs during winter in the Northern Hemisphere.

[Ian Sane]

However, one could also be saying that the low power decision was bad for THEM as a player.

YES!  For some reason it seems so hard on this forum to get this concept across.  Nintendo can make all the fistfuls of money they want but if they do so in a way that alienates me from them and results in a console I'm lukewarm to well I'm not going to be pleased about that and I have every right to be.

I would have paid what the Xbox 360 costs for a Nintendo console with comparable graphics capabilities and a not-stupid controller easily.  I would likely be a little peeved that the price of gaming in general has gone up but it wouldn't be like Nintendo was the oddball, ripping everyone off.  Hell when one complains about the lack of core games a common suggestion is to buy another console as if being expected to suppliment the Wii with another console is perfectly acceptable.  If Nintendo hadn't skimped on the hardware and thus cost a little more those games that show up on every console BUT the Wii likely would be released on the Wii and thus we would only have to buy ONE console and drop about $400 instead of buying TWO and having to drop $600 for the same lineup.

The savings of the Wii are largely a myth.  You only save money if the Wii is your only console but because of the compromises that had to be made to get the lower price the Wii doesn't have many games it almost certainly would have had otherwise and thus it is ill-suited to being one's only console.

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

YEAH, NINTENDO IS REALLY ALIENATING... ME.

WII IS MY ONLY CONSOLE AND I HAVE NOT SEEN THESE "SAVINGS" YET, ESPECIALLY BUYING 30+ FULL PRICED GAMES.

WHAT ABOUT MY NEEDS, IAN?  I'M BUYING SO MANY AWESOME GAMES ITS BECOMING PROBLEMATIC.

[Kairon]

However, one could also be saying that the low power decision was bad for THEM as a player.

One could, but I definitely won't.

Graphics are all well and good, but I have NEVER been a Nintendo fan because of technical wizardry. I'd take Earthbound over FF7 anyday, and personally rank Zelda: LttP over Majora's Mask. I may count the graphically powerful N64 as a golden age, but it was because Nintendo was reinventing their franchises with every major release in those days. Now Nintendo is pursuing innovation as much as ever, games today are exploding in new and different forms (I can't wait for games to rediscover jigsaw puzzles, as I fondly remember a puzzle game on the SNES which was basically jigsaw puzzling with powerups), and I am excited for once about what surprises lie around the corner.

I know not everyone out there is like me, but I measure my relationship with Nintendo by whether they can continue to surprise me and make me believe in an ever-renewing gaming world with radical wonders around every corner. (Ironically, the GameCube was a major disappointment for me in this regard) Whether those surprises involve bald space marines is a really a trivial concern.

Oh, but for the record, I have nothing against bald space marines. It is simply coincidence that neither Turok, nor Joanna Dark, nor the great Duke Nukem himself, are bald.

[GoldenPhoenix]

not-stupid controller easily. 

Ian please shut up.

[Bill Aurion]

Nintendo can make all the fistfuls of money they want but if they do so in a way that alienates me from them...

Whoa, stop right there...I don't think even the mighty Iwata could unravel the paradox that is your gaming tastes...You complained about lack of online titles, which they fixed...You then ignored that and complained about a lack of original titles, which they fixed...You ignored THAT and complained about a lack of original HARDCORE titles, which they FIXED AGAIN, and you IGNORED IT...AGAIN!  Just admit it, you alienate YOURSELF from NINTENDO, not vice-versa...

[vudu]

The Dragon Quest series isn't about setting graphics benchmarks.  It never has and it never will be.

I don't know about you, but Dragon Quest IV and V for DS look pretty fucking fantastic to me.  They're arguably two of the best looking games available for the DS.

[Kairon]

The Dragon Quest series isn't about setting graphics benchmarks.  It never has and it never will be.

I don't know about you, but Dragon Quest IV and V for DS look pretty ****ing fantastic to me.  They're arguably two of the best looking games available for the DS.

Hmm... this is a concerning thought. Is SE changing the way they approach the DQ games? Is SE going to start injecting eye-candy-desire into the DQ series?

[NWR_pap64]

For those saying that they would have paid over 400 bucks for a hi-end Wii...are we quick to forget that the reason the PS3 got a bad start was because it was priced at 600 bucks and offered nothing the 360 or hell, even the Wii couldn't pull off? It was deemed too expensive, even for the hardcore gamer who would literally spend thousands trying to create the ultimate gaming rig.

And if Nintendo did create an HD Wii priced at 400 or 500 bucks you guys would have complained about it being too expensive and criticized Nintendo for pulling such a stupid move.

Its amazing how gaming has become so incredibly shallow that the first thing people consider in a console is graphics. And these same people have the nerve to call the NES "the best system ever" when the Master System had MUCH better graphics and sound.

As Kairon said very well Nintendo has never been about graphics or sound. Its been about gameplay and execution. Take Ocarina of Time. It uses a MIDI soundtrack, yet its incredibly moving and more powerful than the games that use an orchestra nowadays.

Animal Crossing has very simple graphics that has NOT changed since the N64 days. Yet, it adds a lot of charm and we simply can't imagine AC looking otherwise.

Yes, there have been beautiful Nintendo games, like Yoshi's Island,  Donkey Kong Country and even Mario 64 when it debuted. But they all became masterpieces because the gameplay was so solid any visual representation gets sent back.

Did we already forget that Twilight Princess, a "mature" looking Zelda title that looked amazing, was poorly received by the core because it was "more of the same"? Yoshi's Story was a beautiful game, yet it was criticized for being too easy and too short. Finally, didn't we criticize the GC for releasing pretty versions of old N64 games?

Zelda II featured better graphics than Zelda I, but the gameplay wasn't as memorable and for some, it was incredibly broken. Yet "Link to the Past" had some basic Mode-7 effects and small sprites, but its considered the best Zelda game ever.

Mario 3 is by far the best Mario game ever. True, it was a significant graphical step up from Super Mario Bros., but the reason its such a great game was because of the thought, heart and imagination that went into creating this game. Hell, Mario World looked 10 times better but many still see 3 as the best.

So its mind boggling to see would be "Nintendo fans" saying that the Wii should be like the 360 and PS3 in terms of power and would gladly go broke buying one when they have been growing up on the belief that graphics are worth jack sh*t if there isn't significant gameplay behind it.

Guys...there will never be a Wii HD. The current Wii is far too successful with gamers and non gamers for Nintendo to take it back and update it in order to meet the absolutely ridiculous standards of a few bitter gamers. Rather than wishing every day the Wii would be like the 360 ENJOY it for what it is; a GAME system. A system for everyone to enjoy. And before you say "but there aren't any games" shut up. Last I heard, games were still being released on the Wii, and many of them are worth playing at least ONCE, so stop trying to begrudgingly prove a stupid point and PLAY WITH YOUR TOY (yes, because every game system, including the 360 and PS3, is a toy meant to be played with).

[NWR_insanolord]

How come when pap makes an extremely long post I like it and when everyone else does it I hate it? I agree with everything he just said except the part about LttP being the best Zelda.

[Pale]

See Pap, you just confused the two types again in your first paragraph...

You are saying that those willing to pay the high price shouldn't because the Wii would be less successful overall.  My point is that many of the people that wish the Wii had the higher horsepower could care less whether or not it became the dominant console.

Nintendo has proven in the past that the success of their console matters VERY little to what most hardcore fans care about... first party games.

For example, in my high res beautiful Zelda world, I would still get to play that even if the Wii only sold 10% of what it has.

I'm also offended that you take my statements to mean "the first thing I worry about is graphics."  That's the farthest thing from the truth.  I still play and love my Wii.  I'm still allowed to admit that I think it would be EVEN BETTER if it was in HD.

Finally, in me saying that the next system would be HD, I'm not claiming they are just going to make an HD version of the Wii.  I'm saying that the next BRAND NEW system will (and should) be HD capable.

Everyone on these boards needs to stop confusing the concept of Nintendo as a company making money, and the concept of what makes an individual gamer happy.  They really shouldn't be the same thing, and if they are, that is the definition of a fanboy.

[NWR_pap64]

How come when pap makes an extremely long post I like it and when everyone else does it I hate it? I agree with everything he just said except the part about LttP being the best Zelda.

That's what the Zelda community is saying, though, not me. Ask many Zelda die hard fan and many would quote LttP as the best Zelda game ever, while some will say that the simplicity of the original Zelda makes it the best. Hell, for me its a tie between OoT and Majora's Mask.

The way I see it, the Zelda games are so unique, so masterful and so well done that there can never be a greatest Zelda. Each experience is molded to the heart and emotion of the player. OoT was the first Zelda game I truly played and completed and it holds a very special place in my heart, so to me THAT'S the best Zelda. However, those who played LttP first see that as the best Zelda. Hell, I am sure a very young gamer played Twilight Princess as his first Zelda and see it as the best Zelda ever.

Its the same thing with the Mario games.

So, don't take it personally if I say that LttP is the best game ever. I am just using it as an example of how a graphically simple game is considered the best because of how well it executes everything.

[NWR_pap64]

See Pap, you just confused the two types again in your first paragraph...

You are saying that those willing to pay the high price shouldn't because the Wii would be less successful overall.  My point is that many of the people that wish the Wii had the higher horsepower could care less whether or not it became the dominant console.

Nintendo has proven in the past that the success of their console matters VERY little to what most hardcore fans care about... first party games.

For example, in my high res beautiful Zelda world, I would still get to play that even if the Wii only sold 10% of what it has.

I'm also offended that you take my statements to mean "the first thing I worry about is graphics."  That's the farthest thing from the truth.  I still play and love my Wii.  I'm still allowed to admit that I think it would be EVEN BETTER if it was in HD.

Finally, in me saying that the next system would be HD, I'm not claiming they are just going to make an HD version of the Wii.  I'm saying that the next BRAND NEW system will (and should) be HD capable.

Everyone on these boards needs to stop confusing the concept of Nintendo as a company making money, and the concept of what makes an individual gamer happy.  They really shouldn't be the same thing, and if they are, that is the definition of a fanboy.

To be honest, I was aiming my post at those fans who believe the Wii should be a graphical powerhouse when their gamer past has proven that this is mainly a secondary part of the game.

So what you are basically saying is that you wouldn't care if a Nintendo system is successful or not as long as they kept making the gamers you wanted to play?

Try to enlighten me on this as I am confused. In all honesty, it does sound as if you don't care if the Wii is successful because they haven't made the games you wanted to make, a blanket statement many fans use in order to try a bitter point.

I too believe that the next console will likely be HD, not because they want to make their games pretty but because by then the HD adoption rate will have been raised (and with the FFC demanding people to go HD before February of 2009 it will likely happen), and hopefully, they can add it while still keeping the system at a reasonable price.

[Pale]

Try to enlighten me on this as I am confused. In all honesty, it does sound as if you don't care if the Wii is successful because they haven't made the games you wanted to make, a blanket statement many fans use in order to try a bitter point.

That is not what I am saying at all.  My point is that I LOVED the GameCube generation.  Even though it was the weakest selling console, I still played and loved a ton of great first party games, and even some third party ones.

Therefore, I don't think the insane success of the Wii is a reason for me to like it more than I actually do.  Therefore, I often find myself wishing they made a more expensive console with even fancier features.

At no point in any of my posts on these forums have I ever said there are no games on Wii I love.  I love the new Mario Kart.  I love Smash (other than online).  I loved Zack and Wiki. I Loved Galaxy.  I love the virtual console. I loved Twilight Princess.  I could keep going.

[Kairon]

Nintendo has proven in the past that the success of their console matters VERY little to what most hardcore fans care about... first party games.

For example, in my high res beautiful Zelda world, I would still get to play that even if the Wii only sold 10% of what it has.

Ironically, this suggests that what most hardcore fans wanted was a GameCube 2.

I'm still allowed to admit that I think it would be EVEN BETTER if it was in HD.

Yeah, but that's a safe statement. ANYTHING would be better in HD. That's not exactly going out on a limb.

It's also a little naive: nothing is free. If something is to take on HD, then someone, somewhere, something has to pay the price. I'm not saying that the price paid is quality, in many cases it clearly isn't, but there is a trade-off nonetheless. It might instead be an increase in end-user purchase price, a narrowing of game genres, the exclusion of my friends from gaming, or an industry that is consolidated more and more into less and less companies. When evaluating whether one would personally desire HD gaming, that tradeoff, whatever it may be, needs to recognized and weighed.

So yes, this is indeed a personal decision from which can emerge on either side. For me, though, it's easy.

[NWR_pap64]

Try to enlighten me on this as I am confused. In all honesty, it does sound as if you don't care if the Wii is successful because they haven't made the games you wanted to make, a blanket statement many fans use in order to try a bitter point.

That is not what I am saying at all.  My point is that I LOVED the GameCube generation.  Even though it was the weakest selling console, I still played and loved a ton of great first party games, and even some third party ones.

Therefore, I don't think the insane success of the Wii is a reason for me to like it more than I actually do.  Therefore, I often find myself wishing they made a more expensive console with even fancier features.

At no point in any of my posts on these forums have I ever said there are no games on Wii I love.  I love the new Mario Kart.  I love Smash (other than online).  I loved Zack and Wiki. I Loved Galaxy.  I love the virtual console. I loved Twilight Princess.  I could keep going.

Hmm...I am still confused.

The way I read it, you are saying that one reason you love the Wii is NOT because it is so successful but because its a Nintendo console with many great first party titles. But the wishing for an updated model comment still confuses me.

So if I try to sum it up, what you are saying is that you love the Wii so much and its controls that you wish it was even better than it already is and get the ultimate experience, or the best of both worlds (Nintendo innovation with the ultimate experience).

Sorry if I offended you, but you did confuse me with that statement, since it DOES sound similar to the fanboy claims of "I wish the Wii was HD and I would be happy).

[Pale]

This post is to Kai.  Reading Pap's now.

Thank you though.  That's all my point was.  I'm saying that I would be willing to pay the increased price in the end, and I bet a lot of other people would be too.  People shouldn't attack people as if they are wrong for having that opinion.

Honestly, because I've always been a multi-console guy, I wouldn't even mind a decrease in the number of games, because, as I said before, Nintendo will still make their first party games.

I realize this isn't the same mindset as everyone... but I'm still entitled to selfishly wish for it.

[Pale]

To Pap:

Yeah pretty much.  I love the Wii a lot but I often wish they would have made the unit more expensive so that the games would look nicer on my HD TV as well as fix other things, like the storage issue.

[GoldenPhoenix]

Pap saying LTTP is not the best Zelda makes me sad.

[Kairon]

Pap saying LTTP is not the best Zelda makes me sad.

But civilized discourse on NWR makes me happy!

[NWR_pap64]

To Pap:

Yeah pretty much.  I love the Wii a lot but I often wish they would have made the unit more expensive so that the games would look nicer on my HD TV as well as fix other things, like the storage issue.

Fair enough. I would have taken a bigger storage drive if I knew Nintendo was going to be download happy this generation.

But the point I am getting at is that the Wii has proven that bigger, better hardware doesn't add value to a system, its the games. The great Sean Malstrom always say that companies don't add value to the product, its the consumer that does.

In hindsight, the 360 and PS3 ARE better systems than the Wii. What confuses everyone from analysts to fan so much is how success went to the console that never even wanted to be an HD clone. Its what makes the Wii such a hot topic discussion. Its the turtle and the hare all over.

You are right in that you have the right to value the Wii since you purchased it. I am merely stating that its best to enjoy what you have now and do wish for some slight improvement, but not to lower its value simply because its not what you wanted it to be.

[Pale]

So now the magical question is, when I make a blog post in the near future about how the storage issue is the crux of many of the Wiis problems, will all the forum responses still be... "You are wrong, the Wii has sold millions of units world wide which proves it."

[NWR_insanolord]

Pap saying LTTP is not the best Zelda makes me sad.

Pap saying LTTP is not the worst Zelda makes me sad.

So now the magical question is, when I make a blog post in the near future about how the storage issue is the crux of many of the Wiis problems, will all the forum responses still be... "You are wrong, the Wii has sold millions of units world wide which proves it."

You have my full support to bash Nintendo relentlessly for the storage situation. I couldn't care less about HD but I really wish I had even twice the storage space.

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

Wii's problems stem from Nintendo farting around delivering downloadable junk.

All the money youz people spend on downloadable filth is hurting the disc-based 3rd-party Wii game market.  No wonder 3rd parties are so hesitant to bring games over.  Nintendo and its customers are horrible.