Topic: Dragon Quest X - Megaton Non-Surprise!

[GoldenPhoenix]

Its entire existence isn't predicated on having cutting-edge graphics that blow everything else in the industry out of the water (e.g. FF 13).

You must tell me how FF13 plays since you know that is what the visuals will be like!

[NWR_Lindy]

Whatever GP, you know what I'm saying...Dragon Quest has never tried to keep pace with the Final Fantasy series from a visual standpoint.  They've always been more focused on having a manga look than trying to achieve the visuals of a CGI movie.

[GoldenPhoenix]

Whatever GP, you know what I'm saying...Dragon Quest has never tried to keep pace with the Final Fantasy series from a visual standpoint.  They've always been more focused on having a manga look than trying to achieve the visuals of a CGI movie.

The funny thing is that the FF series has far more mainstream appeal, ESPECIALLY in the US.

[Deguello]

Final Fantasy has never kept pace with Final Fantasy.  The notion you believe of Final Fantasy's "visual stewardship" is a complete myth.  FFXIII is the outlier for the whole series, a graphical showcase when EVERY SINGLE OTHER TITLE was on the weakest hardware and meant to be "mass market," which means it was to sell title to consumers to make profit.  Not to please 4 EGM subscribers and their editors.

[Kairon]

It's sort of a given that we're not getting FF13... but... umm... I'm confused about what we're arguing about, lol.

It almost sounds as if we're defining core as anything that's NOT mainstream, and Wii-worthy as anything that IS mainstream?

[GoldenPhoenix]

It's sort of a given that we're not getting FF13... but... umm... I'm confused about what we're arguing about, lol.

It almost sounds as if we're defining core as anything that's NOT mainstream, and Wii-worthy as anything that IS mainstream?

Blame Lindy for the confusing argument.

[Chozo Ghost]

Hell you could argue all the "the Wii is selling is so awesome so third party support has to improve" you want but the truth is it wasn't happening, despite how logically it SHOULD have been.  This was a complete surprise to me.  Now this makes tons of sense but I still wasn't expecting it.

I tried telling you third party support was on the way. They assumed the system would be a failure so they didn't support it early on, and when it became a success they finally did a 180 and started making games... but game development is VERY slow. It can take months or even years, so that's why there was the 3rd party drought from launch up to now.

But you can be sure this Dragon Quest sequel they just announced has been in the pipeline for months or maybe a year or more. If it is coming out in March of next year that means its very long into the development process and is almost near completion. They announced it just recently, but they've been at it for awhile.

That being the case, aren't you wondering what OTHER Wii projects third parties have up their sleeves but haven't revealed just yet? I'm sure there's many others that have been in development since 2007 that could be revealed at any time and then be released immediately. Trust me Ian, if you were surprised by this then you are going to be even more surprised when the curtain is lifted over whatever else is in the 3rd party ovens...

You just have to remember quality games take time. The crap party non-games take very little time to throw together, but good stuff like DQ takes much longer. And now that we're over 2 years into the Wii's life we're finally going to start seeing more quality work and less rush jobs and half-ass crap games for grandmas.

THIS is a GREAT time to be a Wii fan, and 2009 is going to be the year where the Wii reaps the fruits of its success. Just mark my words. All these studios which are silent are up to something...

[Arbok]

You have a game that will sell a shiz-ton no matter what console it's on.

And then these consumers throw away their Wiis? You seem to be ignoring the fact that with this "shiz-ton" of sales comes a "shiz-ton" of people who now fall into the "RPG userbase" willing and ready on the Wii.

Its entire existence isn't predicated on having cutting-edge graphics that blow everything else in the industry out of the water (e.g. FF 13).

And so if they do... what? Why throw tons of money at something to compete on the basis of "having to have cutting-edge graphics" when you could spend less and go for a system that, because of two games with larger built in userbases, will also appeal to your titles?

[Bill Aurion]

But you can be sure this Dragon Quest sequel they just announced has been in the pipeline for months or maybe a year or more. If it is coming out in March of next year that means its very long into the development process and is almost near completion. They announced it just recently, but they've been at it for awhile.

I do have to say this is very unlikely, unless Level 5 isn't developing it...

[Kairon]

You have a game that will sell a shiz-ton no matter what console it's on.

And then these consumers throw away their Wiis? You seem to be ignoring the fact that with this "shiz-ton" of sales comes a "shiz-ton" of people who now fall into the "RPG userbase" willing and ready on the Wii.

Actually, that's what lots of Japanese RPG fans have been doing to the XBox 360. They buy the console when an RPG comes out, beat the RPG in a couple days, then sell both items back almost immediately. In this case, you can't count on the hardcore to be faithful, ironically. Hopefully DQX will "cement" the Wii as the console to OWN and KEEP, and it won't experience this sad pattern.

Its entire existence isn't predicated on having cutting-edge graphics that blow everything else in the industry out of the water (e.g. FF 13).

And so if they do... what? Why throw tons of money at something to compete on the basis of "having to have cutting-edge graphics" when you could spend less and go for a system that, because of two games with larger built in userbases, will also appeal to your titles?

It isn't always about sales. I think they see FFXIII as a game that needs to be epic, needs to be visually cinematic, and needs to push those boundaries. Until you can change that internal psychology about the FF series (just as the internal psychology for the DQ series poo-poos realistic graphics), there would be difficulties in moving the mainline FF series to the Wii. That's why SE invented Crystal Chronicles: to help them re-imagine what sort of fantasy world and corresponding strictures and values they could place on Nintendo consoles.

But you can be sure this Dragon Quest sequel they just announced has been in the pipeline for months or maybe a year or more. If it is coming out in March of next year that means its very long into the development process and is almost near completion. They announced it just recently, but they've been at it for awhile.

Have you got DX IX and DQX confused? DQX is like, waaaay in the future. DQ IX is finally coming out... what, 1.5 years after it was announced?

[Arbok]

Actually, that's what lots of Japanese RPG fans have been doing to the XBox 360. They buy the console when an RPG comes out, beat the RPG in a couple days, then sell both items back almost immediately. In this case, you can't count on the hardcore to be faithful, ironically. Hopefully DQX will "cement" the Wii as the console to OWN and KEEP, and it won't experience this sad pattern.

Yes, the Gamecube experienced a similar fate. However, I would say neither the Gamecube or the 360 were able to get a title of the same caliber as Dragon Quest or... really even the third Monster Hunter (after how big that series has become on the PSP) in regards to RPGs.

It isn't always about sales. I think they see FFXIII as a game that needs to be epic, needs to be visually cinematic, and needs to push those boundaries.

That's FFXIII though. What system that is slated for is already a foregone conclusion. I assumed we were talking about the RPG genre as a whole? I agree that Square probably feels that way about FFXIII... but not that other developers will see their titles in the same light and will somehow shy away from the Wii because they can't make "cutting edge" RPG titles.

[Kairon]

I assumed we were talking about the RPG genre as a whole? I agree that Square probably feels that way about FFXIII... but not that other developers will see their titles in the same light and will somehow shy away from the Wii because they can't make "cutting edge" RPG titles.

Ah! I get you now. Yeah, I agree.... which is why it's more imperative than ever that Nintendo secure the Persona series.

[Ian Sane]

That being the case, aren't you wondering what OTHER Wii projects third parties have up their sleeves but haven't revealed just yet? I'm sure there's many others that have been in development since 2007 that could be revealed at any time and then be released immediately. Trust me Ian, if you were surprised by this then you are going to be even more surprised when the curtain is lifted over whatever else is in the 3rd party ovens...

I would love to be surprised.  The only thing is Dragon Quest IX hasn't even come out yet so when is Dragon Quest X due?  I don't think this announcement is any indication that the game has been worked on for years.  DQIX didn't just pop out on the DS a few months after it was announced.  It's more likely Nintendo just wants this info out ASAP to get some extra sales out of it.

And Dragon Quest is such an obvious core game.  Though the funny thing is in Japan it's like the big mass-market mainstream RPG and here it's the more niche hardcore RPG that only diehards play.

[KDR_11k]

You have a game that will sell a shiz-ton no matter what console it's on.
Its entire existence isn't predicated on having cutting-edge graphics that blow everything else in the industry out of the water (e.g. FF 13).
The Wii is selling by the truckload.
The Wii isn't as powerful graphically as everything else out there, but it can spit out some tasty-looking visuals if pushed correctly.

Sounds like a no-brainer to me.  It doesn't have anything to do with casual or not casual.  It has everything to do with putting the most popular game on the planet on the popular console on the planet.

Er, can you tell me how that makes anything else not a no-brainer for a Wii release? Yet there's tons of "HD"-exclusive games on the market that the Wii isn't seeing even though it's a no-brainer to release stuff on the most popular console. There's no reason for the DQ series to exhibit more sanity than the rest of the market.

[NWR_Lindy]

The Dragon Quest series isn't about setting graphics benchmarks.  It never has and it never will be.  That makes it a perfect fit for the Wii, a console that is at its best when it's pumping out stylized visuals like, oh, say, the cel-shaded graphics of Dragon Quest VIII.

If you're looking to make a game that has a massive world with the most realistic/detailed graphics out there, you aren't going to make it on Wii.  That's not me bashing the Wii, that's just a simple fact.

[Bill Aurion]

If you're looking to make a game that has a massive world with the most realistic/detailed graphics out there, you aren't going to make it on PS2

Man, I need a time machine so I can go back in time and tell XBox the good news!

[NWR_Lindy]

If you're trying to say that the difference between the PS2 and Xbox is comparable to the difference between the Wii and PS3/360, I want some of what you're smoking, Bill.

[Bill Aurion]

It's called logic...I've got plenty to spare, but you might be resistant to the effects...

And yes, PS2 was inferior to XBox and Gamecube...Enough that if game developers were so insistent on creating "a massive world with the most realistic graphics out there," they would have developed for them instead (take comparing the pitiful PS2 version of RE4, for example)...But the fact of the matter is, they didn't...They have always developed for the market leader, which always has happened to be the weakest system...But now graphics suddenly matter this gen?  The consumer has spoken, and if third party developers don't want to take advantage of that marketshare, then well, so be it...

[Mario]

Silks, you're a retard. Sorry but it's the facts, you can't argue with such a burden on your nuts. Nobody is going to take it seriously. If a wild Emu came up to you and asked you if you wanted a coffee, would you tell it Dragon Quest 8 was OK? No.

[RABicle]

If you're trying to say that the difference between the PS2 and Xbox is comparable to the difference between the Wii and PS3/360, I want some of what you're smoking, Bill.

YOu played that third Splinter Cell game didn't you?

[Deguello]

While I don't necessarily agree with Mario making a direct personal insult, I think the tone was set by the insinuation of Bill as a drug user for disagreeing about whether PS2's worst looking games looked generations apart from the Xbox and GC's best looking games.  It's easy to miss such personal attacks in the heat of the argument.

And Mario, don't use "retard."  It's fraught with meaning and the sufferers can't help it.

[Pale]

I have to agree with silks on the differences.  In my opinion, the power difference between say, the Wii and the PS3, is closer to the power difference between the N64 and the GameCube.

It's just, the rate of improvement isn't as noticable due to the fact that the Wii can show enough polys and what not to make models look smooth... if you get what I'm saying.  But, yeah, if we are talking raw horsepower, I think Lindy is close to the mark.

If anything, this just proves that there is a lot to be said for what Nintendo's main point is.  Power isn't as important anymore BECAUSE the GameCube could make stuff so pretty.

I mean, look at the two most obvious places the Wii comes up short to the PS3 and 360 in my opinion.

1. Being able to run at HD resolutions.
2. Potential Number of characters on the screen.

Notice how neither of these are poly count, which was all we cared about going from n64 to GameCube.


So yeah, regardless, I think Nintendo obviously made the right decision by, what is in essence, skipping a generation as far as raw computing power goes.

That said, I don't think this strategy will continue to work in future gens, and by that I mean, I don't think they can afford to fall more than one generation behind.  So the next system better be more powerful and run in HD... but I'm sure it will.

[KDR_11k]

Final Fantasy on the PS2 relied on a lot of trickery like baked textures and FMVs to create a great looking game, the system's power wasn't much of a factor. The series doesn't have to be on a powerful console to do its job.

[Deguello]

I disagree Pale.  The gap between the PS2 and the GC/Xbox was just as if not larger than the gap between Wii and 360/Ps3.  Launch Ps2 games like Kessen and Micro Machines look Generations apart from launch GC games and Xbox games, even more so than their final 2005 projects.

And if you don't mean graphics, then there really isn't a "performance gap" as perceivable by regular and even hardcore gamers, because computational performance is intangible to the naked eye.  There isn't a difference between paintings if everyone in the room is blind.

[RABicle]

Half Life 1 came out on the PS2. Half Life 2 came out on Xbox.