Author Topic: Fire Emblem Shadow Dragon  (Read 30897 times)

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Offline decoyman

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Re: Fire Emblem Shadow Dragon
« Reply #25 on: February 08, 2009, 09:40:20 PM »
So is anyone else hoping that the other Japan-only Fire Emblems get remade/re-released now either on VC or as DS/DSiWare remakes?

VC would be WIN!
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Offline Stratos

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Re: Fire Emblem Shadow Dragon
« Reply #26 on: February 10, 2009, 09:18:46 PM »
So is anyone else hoping that the other Japan-only Fire Emblems get remade/re-released now either on VC or as DS/DSiWare remakes?

VC would be WIN!

The Japanese Wii VC has several FEs already. Those and the N64 Custom Robo are JP VC games I wish would come to the West.
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Re: Fire Emblem Shadow Dragon
« Reply #27 on: February 10, 2009, 09:22:27 PM »
So is anyone else hoping that the other Japan-only Fire Emblems get remade/re-released now either on VC or as DS/DSiWare remakes?

VC would be WIN!

The Japanese Wii VC has several FEs already. Those and the N64 Custom Robo are JP VC games I wish would come to the West.

Oh man, I'd absolutely love to see the N64 Custom Robo come here, the DS game is one of my favorite DS games.
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Offline Stratos

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Re: Fire Emblem Shadow Dragon
« Reply #28 on: February 10, 2009, 09:32:39 PM »
I've actually been meaning to get the DS one for a while but it always falls at the wayside at the hands of bigger games... someday. Last I saw it was only $15 on Amazon. Maybe when I order Tenchu, Deadly Creatures or Fire Emblem.
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Offline bosshogx

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Re: Fire Emblem Shadow Dragon
« Reply #29 on: February 13, 2009, 11:16:18 AM »
**Warning: Long post to follow**

Well, I finally finished the game a couple of days ago.  I'll go ahead and write up a review for anyone who is interested. 

As most of you are aware, Fire Emblem: Shadow Dragon is a remake of the original Fire Emblem for the NES.  The main character is Marth, who was recently made popular from the Smash Brothers series.  If you've never played a FE game before, then this is a good starting point.  If you've played a FE game before on the GBA, GC, or Wii, then you should be prepared for some big differences.  The differences are numerous, some good, some bad, some major, some minor.  These differences are only in comparison to the more current FE that have been released.

Good changes

-In game saves locations.  There are now spots on the map (usually two), that allow you to save your progress and reload it should a character die.  This helps players recover a lot of time for a minor mistake (say not checking that an enemy is carrying a horse slaying and kills your cavalier).  Because the player must choose to use them, save circles are a perfect way to make the game easier on a new comer while they can be completely ignored by a FE "purist".

-Direct attacking and weapon cycling.  Direct attacking is a feature that was first seen in Advance Wars: Days of Ruin.  Basically, when moving a unit, you can plot out your movement and end up on an enemy.  The game will then automatically take you to the attack information box instead of making the player choose the attack option.  This works the same for healing.  Once the attack information box is displayed, pressing the "X" button will cycle through all of the characters weapons to get different results.  This saves a lot of time and is one of my favorite editions.

-New animations.  Whether or not you like the rendered look of the units is a matter of personal preference, but the animations nicely done.  While I do prefer the older sprite based look of the GBA FE, the animations of the characters and the magic are quite easy on the eye.

-Online play.  Being an import copy of the game, I didn't have anyone to try this feature out with.  You create teams of five units and go at it against another player's five units.  I can't imagine that this feature would be as robust or balanced as Advance Wars, but at least the option is there.

-Online store.  Feel free to buy weapons, armor, items, and upgrades via a WiFi store.  Every day the inventory changes.  All purchases are made from gold earned in the single player game.  Certain rare items are only available on certain days (ie. days ending with a 5 like the 5th, 15th, 25th.)

-Online unit sharing.  Place a unit into an online store that friends can use.  It's basically a copy/paste scenario.  Say I choose to place my axe user Barst into the store.  An exact copy of the character is placed online for anyone else to download.  I continue to use my Barst and play like normal.  If anyone downloads my copy of Barst, they can use him in place of their version of Barst.  If either version of Barst is killed, both characters are removed from the roster.

-Class swapping.  You can take any character and change them from one class to another.  Need an extra Mage?  No problem, take one of those excessive Cavaliers and turn them into a Mage.  There are caps on the total number of any one type of unit so that you don't field thirty Mages.

-Merging.  During the setup phase before battle, the player can combine like weapons to restore weapon uses.  Say you have a pair of Iron Swords, one with twelve uses and the other with twentieth uses.  Merging them together will give you one Iron Sword with thirty five uses.  This saves the player from equipping a unit with two swords of the same type for when the first one breaks.

-Forging.  This is a carried over ability from the GC and Wii versions.  During the setup phase, a player my spend money to create a more powerful version of almost any weapon in their inventory.  You can even name the weapon.  This will help weaker characters hang with stronger enemies.


Bad changes

-No rescuing.  Units go no longer pick each other up to get them out of a difficult situation.  This was a very big strategic aspect of all prior FE games and doesn't seem to make sense in it's exclusion.  It was probably left out because it wasn't a feature in the original game.

-Mounted units get no second action.  In the GBA versions of FE, mounted units could move, perform any non-attack option, and finish their move.  In the GC and Wii versions, they could attack then move which made them IMHO far too powerful.  In the DS version, they have no options at all, simply making them units with a lot of movement range.

-Only Marth can enter villages.  You can no longer use any unit to enter a village and get an item.  Marth has to be the one that does it, unlike prior FE titles.  Any unit can still enter a house to gather information though.

-No more "R" button information.  In all prior versions of FE, the player could highlight an ally or enemy and press the "R" button to gain more detailed information.  In the DS version, moving the cursor over any unit causes it's stats and equipment to appear on the top screen.  This is usually fine, but there is no way to highlight an enemies weapons to check it's stats or abilities.  This is especially frustrating if they have a unique weapon that you cannot check special attack bonuses or weight.  I also used the "R" button to quickly cycle through enemies at the map set up screen to see what items they might be carrying that can be stolen or acquired through defeating them.  It was also extremely useful for seeing if any enemies had a portrait, which usually indicates a boss or a recruitable character.

-All maps are "Seize" only.  There are no variety of map objectives.  There will be no survival modes, kill all the enemies modes, or rescue modes.  This makes the gameplay a bit stale.

-Unlocking extra maps.  To unlike the side missions, you must kill off existing characters.  For some reason, you have to have less than fifteen characters to unlock the extra maps.  This typically means choosing a group of fifteen and killing off the rest.  This was never an issue in any other FE, so I don't understand why it was added to this one.


General observations

-Tons of characters quickly.  By the time you reach the fourth mission, you will probably have over twenty characters.  You also get way too many Cavaliers, like six or seven by mission five.

-Little to no character development.  In all prior FE titles, the characters usually had at least one thing that made them unique or interesting to the story.  Sometimes it tied into the story other times it was a neat personality quirk.  In the DS version, some characters are just added without saying a word.  One map had my party receiving help from another nation.  A Mercenary character spoke with Marth and then three axe wielders hoped in behind him.  No back story, just three extra guys with axes.  Weird.

-Recruiting is limited.  Almost every character in the game is recruited by either Marth or Shiida (the main love interest).  Their are a few other characters that can be recruited by other characters, but it's never apparent who that is supposed to be.  It usually boils down to trail and error to figure it out.

-No conversations before maps.  After a mission starts, you go right to base camp.  There is no conversation with the characters before hand.  It seems a bit out of place compared to prior titles.

-No fleshed out base camps.  All of the neat options from the GC and Wii versions were removed.  No more Bonus Experience, supports, or side conversations.  These were very small additions that really helped fleshed out the characters without drastically changing the gameplay.

-No support system.  No more building up "A", "B", and "C" supports with other characters.  This means no more slightly boosted stats, interesting back stories or conversations, and different endings depending on support levels. 


In conclusion

All in all, the game is still good, but a big let down for long time FE fans.  The game just seems very basic when compared to the others in the series.  I can understand not having certain gameplay features such as rescuing and mounted unit movement, but not having storyline aspects is just bizarre.  Adding rescuing and other abilities would require maps to be rebalanced, but adding conversations wouldn't hinder gameplay at all.

I guess my biggest overall complaint is that Intelligent Systems appeared to want to update the gameplay to more current FE fair, but seemed to stop short somewhere in the middle.  Why not recreate the original game with graphical overhauls and then include a "remixed" mode with all of the innovations from the rest of the series added?  It's really the best of both worlds.  Maybe it was too much extra work, for not enough return.  Who knows?

In the end, I would say this was my least favorite FE I ever played.  Had there been a remixed mode with more character interactions and personality I would probably rank it higher.  Of course, everything above is just my opinion and you know what they say about opinions.

Hope you enjoyed the read and feel free to ask any questions about the game.
« Last Edit: February 13, 2009, 11:18:02 AM by bosshogx »
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Offline vudu

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Re: Fire Emblem Shadow Dragon
« Reply #30 on: February 13, 2009, 03:06:23 PM »
What difficulty levels are available from the start?  I've heard that Normal is a little easy for veterans, so I'll probably jump in at a harder difficulty.  Than again, past FE games have completely changed the difficulty settings during localization, so it might completely change for the American version.

I hadn't heard about a lot of your gripes with the game.  It kind of sucks that only Marth can enter villages.  I generally send out an over-powered character to out-of-the-way villages so the rest of my party can stick together.  Sine the main character generally isn't that unit this will present a problem to my current play style.  It especially sucks since Marth is the character that does the most recruiting.  How am I supposed to visit a village on the south-west side of the map while simultaneously recruit a character on the north-east end of the map?  I hate when recruit-able characters die from a counterattack because they foolishly decide to attack my strongest character before I can get to them.  Are there any timed events such as I need to visit such-and-such village within the first 10 turns or it is burned to the ground or I need to recruit someone before they leave the map?

No R button information sucks.  I do the same thing you do (especially to find steal-able treasures and recruit-able characters).  I think I'm going to have to resort to using a FAQ a lot more than I usually do just so I don't miss things like this.

Is it possible to dismiss characters from your party without killing them?  If I have to waste a character slot on my map just to get rid of someone it's going to be annoying.
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Offline bosshogx

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Re: Fire Emblem Shadow Dragon
« Reply #31 on: February 14, 2009, 12:57:16 AM »
What difficulty levels are available from the start?  I've heard that Normal is a little easy for veterans, so I'll probably jump in at a harder difficulty.  Than again, past FE games have completely changed the difficulty settings during localization, so it might completely change for the American version.

IIRC, the difficulties were "Normal" and "Hard".  I chose Normal figuring that I would play through it again on hard.  Oops.

I hadn't heard about a lot of your gripes with the game.  It kind of sucks that only Marth can enter villages.  I generally send out an over-powered character to out-of-the-way villages so the rest of my party can stick together.  Sine the main character generally isn't that unit this will present a problem to my current play style.  It especially sucks since Marth is the character that does the most recruiting.  How am I supposed to visit a village on the south-west side of the map while simultaneously recruit a character on the north-east end of the map?  I hate when recruit-able characters die from a counterattack because they foolishly decide to attack my strongest character before I can get to them.  Are there any timed events such as I need to visit such-and-such village within the first 10 turns or it is burned to the ground or I need to recruit someone before they leave the map?

Only enemy thieves are the only ones that can destroy villages.  Unlike most FE's, thieves usually don't appear as reinforcements in this game.  Most maps have the thieves already located somewhere and that's all you have to deal with.  There was one map I can think of that had multiple thief reinforcements, but by the time they appeared, you were already finished grabbing the chests.  One nice thing is that when you kill a thief, you get all of the items he stole.  Very nice.

I only recall needing to have Marth at two places at a time maybe once or twice.  It's not really that big of an issue.  What really sucks is having to move Marth to a village to get an item, then trudge him all the way back across the map to capture the castle that the boss was standing on.

Is it possible to dismiss characters from your party without killing them?  If I have to waste a character slot on my map just to get rid of someone it's going to be annoying.

Nope, you can't dismiss anyone.  You only need to slaughter your characters if you are trying for the side chapters.  Apparently, once you recruit a certain number of characters, the game will stop giving you characters to recruit until you lose someone.  How stupid is that?

Even weirder than that is if you start killing off people left and right, the game will provide you with filler units to get you back to 15.  They are supposedly units without a picture, kinda like enemy units.  Bizarre.
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Offline vudu

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Re: Fire Emblem Shadow Dragon
« Reply #32 on: February 14, 2009, 10:29:36 AM »
In past FE games the units you get early on tend to be far superior to the ones you get later in the game.

For example, in Path of Radiance, Gatrie (ch. 3)  has higher average stats than Brom (ch. 10) or Tauroneo (ch. 21).  These weaker characters only serve a real purpose if you were foolish and let your Gatrie die and thus need to replace him.

As long as it's the same setup I suppose I won't really mind missing out on characters later in the game.  But if there are fantastic characters that appear late in the game it's going to be annoying killing off units in order to get them.
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Offline Luigi Dude

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Re: Fire Emblem Shadow Dragon
« Reply #33 on: February 15, 2009, 04:10:17 AM »
For anyone that's interested, here's the Ask Iwata interview of the game.  As always, lots of great comments.

http://fire-emblem.com/shadowdragon/interview/interview1.html

Of course the big surprise is Sakurai is doing the interview instead of Iwata.  Looks like Sakurai is still willing to do whatever Iwata asks him.  Hey, maybe if we're lucky, Iwata will have Sakurai go back to HAL to help them finally finish that Kirby game they've spent the last 40 years on. :P
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Re: Fire Emblem Shadow Dragon
« Reply #34 on: March 03, 2009, 02:06:28 PM »
Nice review bosshogx, I agree with everything you say.  I just finished myself and found it a bit disappointing.  The remake didn't add the gameplay improvements from the lastest FF games so it was 100% ole-school with a fresh coat of paint. 

I love plots and this one was quite disappointing.  The characters really don't have more than a "few sentences" worth of dialog if that at all.  You don't unlock their pasts or have much interaction with other characters like in the GBA FF game.   Sure when a new character joins you might be able to talk with them though another character but that will be the end of it. 


Offline vudu

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Re: Fire Emblem Shadow Dragon
« Reply #35 on: March 09, 2009, 04:02:18 PM »
I'm five missions into the game and feeling a bit overwhelmed by a few of the new options.

Is this the first Fire Emblem game that's allowed you to change your character class at any time?  It's a bit daunting.  The feature wasn't explained at all and I'm not sure if this is an integral feature or if I only need to worry about it if I start losing characters and need to replace them.  Do I get any benefit by changing the character's default class?  I would think that they're best suited for their original class, but since there's zero mention of this in the tutorial I don't really know for sure.  Any advice?

I've never used the forge ability in past games, but I'm considering it this game.  I'd like to give Caeda a stronger lance while keeping the weight down so she can still attack twice per turn.  However, I'm cheap and I like to horde, so even though I have like 25,000 gold pieces I don't want to spend the cash.  Anyone else use this feature?
« Last Edit: March 09, 2009, 04:05:20 PM by vudu »
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Re: Fire Emblem Shadow Dragon
« Reply #36 on: March 09, 2009, 11:24:43 PM »
I'm five missions into the game and feeling a bit overwhelmed by a few of the new options.

Is this the first Fire Emblem game that's allowed you to change your character class at any time?  It's a bit daunting.  The feature wasn't explained at all and I'm not sure if this is an integral feature or if I only need to worry about it if I start losing characters and need to replace them.  Do I get any benefit by changing the character's default class?  I would think that they're best suited for their original class, but since there's zero mention of this in the tutorial I don't really know for sure.  Any advice?

I've never used the forge ability in past games, but I'm considering it this game.  I'd like to give Caeda a stronger lance while keeping the weight down so she can still attack twice per turn.  However, I'm cheap and I like to horde, so even though I have like 25,000 gold pieces I don't want to spend the cash.  Anyone else use this feature?

I won't use the class change system yet. Maybe on my second run through.

Don't bother with a special spear for Caeda. The Wing Spear she has is great against calvary and some other unit I forgot about. If you already used that up then hold on for mission seven (I think it's seven...or eight) where you can buy another one for a nice price. You can also buy another rapier for Marth.

On a completely different thought. Does anyone else hope the next FE game has a different type of lead than the sword-only wielding lord? The only hero with a different weapon type was Ephraim from Sacred Stones. I loved having a lord with a spear. By lord I also mean the lead character. Marth, Roy, Eliwood, Erika and Ike all used swords, typically of the rapier variety.
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Offline decoyman

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Re: Fire Emblem Shadow Dragon
« Reply #37 on: March 10, 2009, 12:02:08 PM »
How about Sothe? He's a thief, who used daggers! (so... little swords... never mind)

Reading through this thread made me remember that I'd never finished Radiant Dawn. So, I'm getting my Fire Emblem fix that way instead (though it's a bit daunting starting fresh when you were already about 30-some hours in the first time).
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Offline vudu

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Re: Fire Emblem Shadow Dragon
« Reply #38 on: March 10, 2009, 02:22:40 PM »
On a completely different thought. Does anyone else hope the next FE game has a different type of lead than the sword-only wielding lord? The only hero with a different weapon type was Ephraim from Sacred Stones. I loved having a lord with a spear. By lord I also mean the lead character. Marth, Roy, Eliwood, Erika and Ike all used swords, typically of the rapier variety.

Hector uses axes.  He's the best lord ever.  ;D
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Re: Fire Emblem Shadow Dragon
« Reply #39 on: March 10, 2009, 07:35:45 PM »
On a completely different thought. Does anyone else hope the next FE game has a different type of lead than the sword-only wielding lord? The only hero with a different weapon type was Ephraim from Sacred Stones. I loved having a lord with a spear. By lord I also mean the lead character. Marth, Roy, Eliwood, Erika and Ike all used swords, typically of the rapier variety.

Hector uses axes.  He's the best lord ever.  ;D

But he's not the lead. Well, I guess he counts since it's game over if he dies. So I guess there are a number of alternate weapon lords. I just wish there were more where the story revolved around them more.
Sothe can count as well. I finished PoR after RD released so my Sothe was maxed out. He is killer in RD. I just wish they didn't gimp the veteran units when they gain exp.
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Offline decoyman

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Re: Fire Emblem Shadow Dragon
« Reply #40 on: March 11, 2009, 11:35:23 AM »
Has there ever been an archer lord? It seems like a royal-ish weapon to take up...
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Offline vudu

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Re: Fire Emblem Shadow Dragon
« Reply #41 on: March 11, 2009, 02:03:43 PM »
Hector uses axes.  He's the best lord ever.

But he's not the lead. Well, I guess he counts since it's game over if he dies. So I guess there are a number of alternate weapon lords. I just wish there were more where the story revolved around them more.

Did you beat the first GBA Fire Emblem?  You can play it again and get a slightly different story (and some new chapters) where Hector is the main lord.  You haven't really played Fire Emblem until you've played Hector Hard Mode.  ;D
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Re: Fire Emblem Shadow Dragon
« Reply #42 on: March 11, 2009, 06:35:28 PM »
Hector uses axes.  He's the best lord ever.

But he's not the lead. Well, I guess he counts since it's game over if he dies. So I guess there are a number of alternate weapon lords. I just wish there were more where the story revolved around them more.

Did you beat the first GBA Fire Emblem?  You can play it again and get a slightly different story (and some new chapters) where Hector is the main lord.  You haven't really played Fire Emblem until you've played Hector Hard Mode.  ;D

I actually haven't ever beaten any FE's until last Fall when I beat PoR finally because I wanted to move on to RD.
I am a perfectionist in the game and usually start over if I feel I could have raised my characters better. I have even gotten to the last level multiple times in the first GBA one. I've restarted it at least a good 12 times when I was over 3/4ths of the way to the end. I also won't let anyone die ever.

Maybe I should go back and actually finish it? I love the games, I apparently just hate to finish them.  ;D
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Offline decoyman

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Re: Fire Emblem Shadow Dragon
« Reply #43 on: March 12, 2009, 12:58:53 AM »
I let that little punk Edward die in Radiant Dawn.

Kid was such a jerk, always getting himself into trouble. >:(

*grumblegrumble*
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Re: Fire Emblem Shadow Dragon
« Reply #44 on: March 17, 2009, 04:46:20 AM »
This may be a bit of a spoiler if answered but I am curious, does Marth ever class up like Ike, Ephraim and other lords? Which battle does this occur on? I'm pretty far in the game and haven't given him as much experience as I usually give lords and am wondering if I should push him on my current mission to max. I'm prepping for mission 17.
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Re: Fire Emblem Shadow Dragon
« Reply #45 on: March 19, 2009, 06:25:39 PM »
This may be a bit of a spoiler if answered but I am curious, does Marth ever class up like Ike, Ephraim and other lords? Which battle does this occur on? I'm pretty far in the game and haven't given him as much experience as I usually give lords and am wondering if I should push him on my current mission to max. I'm prepping for mission 17.

Spoilered just in case:
Lords, thieves, and dragons do not level up, but they do get a higher level cap of 30.

Personally, I only used the class change option on one character, because I didn't want her to be a healer.  Outside of that, I don't think it's necessary unless you lose units like crazy.
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Re: Fire Emblem Shadow Dragon
« Reply #46 on: March 19, 2009, 06:47:37 PM »
Thanks for the response bosshogx, I just passed level 20 last night and was wondering if he auto classed like in the Gamecube/Wii games of if it was a higher level cap. Is it worth much to level up thieves, I gave up leveling mine up since I am trying to have five falco/draco knights on my final team. That's a lot of leveling.
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Offline vudu

  • You'd probably all be better off if I really were dead.
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Re: Fire Emblem Shadow Dragon
« Reply #47 on: March 19, 2009, 09:47:15 PM »
I always level up my thieves, but that's just because I love the class.  However, I also love Myrmidons, which just proves I'm an idiot.  ;)
Why must all things be so bright? Why can things not appear only in hues of brown! I am so serious about this! Dull colors are the future! The next generation! I will never accept a world with such bright colors! It is far too childish! I will rage against your cheery palette with my last breath!

Offline Stratos

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Re: Fire Emblem Shadow Dragon
« Reply #48 on: March 20, 2009, 01:47:51 AM »
I always level up my thieves, but that's just because I love the class.  However, I also love Myrmidons, which just proves I'm an idiot.  ;)

How is that being an idiot?

I powered up the thief from Sacred Stones and turned him into an assassin and Sothe in PoR, but Sothe I did mostly because I knew he was a key started character in RD and that I could carry stats over.
My Game Collection
NNID: Chronocast
Switch: SW-6786-5514-9978
3DS Friend Code: 0447-5723-6467
XBL Gamertag: Chronocast

Offline vudu

  • You'd probably all be better off if I really were dead.
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Re: Fire Emblem Shadow Dragon
« Reply #49 on: March 20, 2009, 02:09:43 PM »
Myrmidons generally suck because they're weak and have low health.  They generally have good luck which helps with avoiding hits and landing criticals.  They're uneven, which makes them hard to play with and are usually more trouble than they're worth.  But they're so awesome I can't resist using at least one or two of them every time I play.
Why must all things be so bright? Why can things not appear only in hues of brown! I am so serious about this! Dull colors are the future! The next generation! I will never accept a world with such bright colors! It is far too childish! I will rage against your cheery palette with my last breath!