Author Topic: Why does Nintendo hate the Game Cube?  (Read 46270 times)

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Offline UncleBob

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Re: Why does Nintendo hate the Game Cube?
« Reply #100 on: June 05, 2008, 01:12:53 PM »
Didn't the 'Cube actually outsell the XBox worldwide?

Didn't MicroSoft lose quite a bit of money on the original XBox as a whole?

If the GameCube was a flop, the XBox has to be considered a bigger flop...

And it had the best online plan of all.
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Offline vudu

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Re: Why does Nintendo hate the Game Cube?
« Reply #101 on: June 05, 2008, 02:47:50 PM »
Don't try to bring facts into an argument with Ian.  It's futile.
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Offline Kairon

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Re: Why does Nintendo hate the Game Cube?
« Reply #102 on: June 05, 2008, 04:48:52 PM »
Didn't the 'Cube actually outsell the XBox worldwide?

Didn't MicroSoft lose quite a bit of money on the original XBox as a whole?

If the GameCube was a flop, the XBox has to be considered a bigger flop...

And it had the best online plan of all.

Well, technically the XBox outsold the GC worldwide by about 2 or 3 million units I believe.
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Offline UncleBob

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Re: Why does Nintendo hate the Game Cube?
« Reply #103 on: June 05, 2008, 07:54:56 PM »
It appears you're right.  Apparently, the 'Cube sold 21.7 million World-wide while the 'Box sold 24 Million World-wide.  I was thinking the XBox was slightly in the lead, but that the 'Cube overtook it in that last year (since they had stopped making the 'Box)... guess I was wrong.

So, let's see... Microsoft sold 2.3 Million more XBox units world-wide than Nintendo did GameCube units.  Yet Microsoft lost millions in their Games Division while Nintendo made millions.

In the now-time, the Wii is outselling the competition by leaps and bounds... despite still not having a real on-line plan (although slightly better than the GameCube's...) in comparison to the kick-ass on-line of the 360 and the somewhat better than Wii's on-line of the PS3.

Meanwhile, the heads of both Sony's and Microsoft's gaming divisions have "stepped down".  The two companies are reported to still be losing money.  And Nintendo has so much money, Reggie wipes with Franklins.

Yeah, the general population really, really wants online.

Anyone have any numbers as to what percentage of Americans don't even have High-Speed Internet access?
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Offline ATimson

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Re: Why does Nintendo hate the Game Cube?
« Reply #104 on: June 05, 2008, 10:39:00 PM »
Yeah, the general population really, really wants online.
I don't see anybody arguing that the general population wants online, just the general "gamer" population. Who are decidedly not who the Wii is courting, so it's not really worth Nintendo's while to put much effort into online for their sakes. If the DS hadn't already built the infrastructure, I'd wonder how much of the Wii's online capabilities would still be there...
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Offline Ian Sane

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Re: Why does Nintendo hate the Game Cube?
« Reply #105 on: June 06, 2008, 02:35:10 PM »
Quote
So, let's see... Microsoft sold 2.3 Million more XBox units world-wide than Nintendo did GameCube units.  Yet Microsoft lost millions in their Games Division while Nintendo made millions.

The old profit arguement doesn't mean sh!t unless you're a stockholder.  Nintendo making a profit didn't prevent third parties from bailing on the Cube.  It didn't stop video stores from not having Cube games to rent.  From the perspective of a console owner all that matters is what affects us and that's units sold.  Even now with Nintendo being cool and popular again if I mention I own a Gamecube people look at me like I'm the Elephant Man.  The Cube is incredibly unpopular.  It's Nintendo's lowest selling console and, despite being profitable, it didn't meet their expectations.  In other words: flop-a-roo.

But the Xbox lost money.  Yeah but it was popular and MS got their foot in the door which was their plan all along.  I agree that losing money is rather dumb but the Xbox 360 is ahead of the PS3.  Xbox is a household name in videogaming.  Years from now the Xbox will be remembered fondly but the Gamecube won't.

Quote
In the now-time, the Wii is outselling the competition by leaps and bounds... despite still not having a real on-line plan (although slightly better than the GameCube's...) in comparison to the kick-ass on-line of the 360 and the somewhat better than Wii's on-line of the PS3.

But the Wii IS online.  And considering online mulitplayer is quite common on the Wii and it offers downloadable games with the VC and Wii Ware I would say it's far more than "slighty better" than the Cube's two online games.  It isn't exceptional but it' s good enough.  It meets the expectations people have about a videogame console.  The Gamecube DIDN'T.  Plus it isn't specifically about online.  It's about not even attempting to match the competition.  It's about promising something and not delivering on it.  Nintendo is doing a better job now at giving people what they want, where with the Cube it was all about TELLING people what they wanted.

If online had nothing to do with then what did?  The Cube finished in last place.  That's a fact.  We know it happened.  Why?  I suggest this or that and I get responses about how this didn't matter and that didn't matter.  "The Xbox didn't make any money" isn't an explanation of why the Cube didn't even match the sales of the N64.  I'm curious to know what those of you who think online didn't/doesn't matter think contributed to the Cube having the lowest sales of last generation.  Don't say "it was profitable".  I want to know why it sold the least units.

Offline UncleBob

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Re: Why does Nintendo hate the Game Cube?
« Reply #106 on: June 06, 2008, 03:01:20 PM »
It's funny you say the 'cube won't be remembered fondly... Go look on eBay and see how much people are paying for GameCube titles. Pikmin 2, Mario Power Tennis, Mario Kart: Double Dash, heck... Even Melee still gets around $20 - which is pretty dang good, considering it's age and the number of copies in circulation.

How many top game lists include GameCube titles on them?

The GameCube is still fondly remembered.  Hell, if it wasn't for storage space, people would *love* to have GameCube games on the VC.

Does the number of units really matter overall? If the New Kids on the Block or Brittany Spears sold more albums than eveyone else in their time, but some other artist is still around and still selling out concerts while Brittany is gutter trash doing drugs or whatever, who "wins"?

There are more than a few reasons why the 'Cube didn't outsell the competiton... But the lack of on-line isn't even what I would consider the top 5.
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Offline Ian Sane

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Re: Why does Nintendo hate the Game Cube?
« Reply #107 on: June 06, 2008, 04:32:48 PM »
Quote
There are more than a few reasons why the 'Cube didn't outsell the competiton... But the lack of on-line isn't even what I would consider the top 5.

What are those reasons then?  I wouldn't consider online the only reason but I would consider it a significant one.

Offline UltimatePartyBear

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Re: Why does Nintendo hate the Game Cube?
« Reply #108 on: June 06, 2008, 05:14:02 PM »
It was mostly PR.  I still run into people who believe the PS2 was more powerful than the Gamecube, for example.  Nintendo didn't do anything to convince them otherwise.  The color choice didn't help much, either.  Even though it was available in black from day one, people still think of it as the purple lunchbox.  I'm not saying those are the reasons, but that they are indicative of the real reason: bad, bad, terribly bad, bordering on criminally incompetent marketing.

Offline animecyberrat

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Re: Why does Nintendo hate the Game Cube?
« Reply #109 on: June 06, 2008, 06:08:15 PM »
The GameCube was load more fun to play than the Xbox, it was smaller, easier to use, easier to set up, it had features Xbox didn't have, it had the bonus of having a pretty good line up of games out the door.


With Xbox you had  a lot of flash, a lot of talk and a lot of fucking money, and money talks and therefore people listened. I don't think anyone can honestly predict why the GC did not sell as well as it should have, aside form FPSes, the GC had a better 3rd party line up all around and some of the best damn 1st party games of the last two generations. Halo was it for the first what two years of the Xbox life, and in that time GameCube was still struggling to pick up sales.


We look back on it in hindsight and think, no DVD player support, no HDD, no online, purple color, tiny memory cards, etc are stupid reasons for not selling and we think that in the end those things didn't matter, but in the days when GameCube was a commodity and not a memory, those were the exact reasons people cited for not wanting a GameCube or choosing an Xbox over the GC. They may be irrational reasons but if someone said that was why they picked one system over another, well then that is it that is all we have to go by.

I think a lot of it was just Nintendo had a bad reputation and did not do much to fix it, they made some great games, they made some fantastic games even, but they did makea lot of stupid decisions. Overall the world will never know for sure why the GC was not was as scucessful as it should have been, but we do know that some people cited it as not playing DVD's, well in the first year of it's life I honestly think that maybe was a deciding factor for early adapters of the competition, but in the end it did not affect overall sales. Some people cite the childish look and label it as just for kids, well in the end that is not true but a GameCube was a lot more kid friendly than Xbox and once it got under 100 bucks I am sure being kid friendly played a role it it's longevity, but overall I do not think it was  deciding factor.



The discs were small, in the beggining coming from DC and PS1 people were getting tired of the long load times, Cube supporters touted the small discs and the answer because it reduced load times, in the end that did not have a big impact on sales, missing key features or having a gimped ported due to size constraints could have been an issue, if it was the case but I can not think of any specific examples of what GC games were gimped due to size limits. Even so it waqs something a fanboy would say and not really a deciding factor for the non-fanboys so not a very relevent excuse.



I think it came down to mostly Ps2 was so popular already because of Ps1 that a lot of people honestly thought owning a Ps2 was the "in thing" and owning a Cube was the "geek" thing that it maybe stupid but I honestly think for a lot of irrational fanboys and hormonal teenagers with low to no self esteem it sure as hell could have been an honest to god excuse to not buy a GC.


In conclusion, there is not one single reason why the GameCube did not do as well as it should have, but just a ton of irrational and stupid reasons that just made no sense but to those who were thinking them up. In the end GameCube was a fantastic system that will be remembered by some as one of the best damn gaming experiences of their lives, while others will remember it as the purple lunch box (purple is my favorite color so not a sales point for me but a plus anyways)



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Offline UncleBob

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Re: Why does Nintendo hate the Game Cube?
« Reply #110 on: June 06, 2008, 08:57:57 PM »
What are those reasons then?  I wouldn't consider online the only reason but I would consider it a significant one.

Pretty much as was said - the majority of the GameCube's issues could be summed up under PR.

Beyond that, it was their inability to reach out to third parties.  Face it - the difference between the XBox sales and the GameCube sales was pretty minimal... yet third parties dropped support for the Cube pretty quickly, but stuck with the XBox...

Why did games like Soul Caliber II outsell the XBox and PS2 versions, yet Soul Caliber 3 was a PlayStation 2 exclusive?

Why did Capcom screw over Nintendo with their five "exclusive" games?  What did Nintendo do (or not do) that failed to keep them?
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Offline ATimson

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Re: Why does Nintendo hate the Game Cube?
« Reply #111 on: June 06, 2008, 09:35:25 PM »
Beyond that, it was their inability to reach out to third parties.  Face it - the difference between the XBox sales and the GameCube sales was pretty minimal... yet third parties dropped support for the Cube pretty quickly, but stuck with the XBox...
If I was going to develop a game for only one platform of the two (or possibly even of all three, PS2's install base asides), it would be the Xbox (or Xbox 360--especially since the PS3 doesn't have the install base advantage). The install bases may not be all that different between the Xbox/360 and GameCube/Wii, but the Xboxes have more power and features and are significantly easier to develop for than their Nintendo brethren.
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Offline UncleBob

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Re: Why does Nintendo hate the Game Cube?
« Reply #112 on: June 06, 2008, 09:42:06 PM »
That's the first time I've heard the XBox was easier to develop for than the GameCube.  I thought that was one of the 'Cubes strong points, was that it was so easy to develop for...
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Offline Chozo Ghost

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Re: Why does Nintendo hate the Game Cube?
« Reply #113 on: June 07, 2008, 02:33:31 AM »
Crappy online is better than no online at all.  The time to go online was last gen.  The PS2 might not have had as much of an online presence as the Xbox but it at least looked like a token effort and that makes a huge difference.  Sony looked like a company willing to try to match their competitor.  They also promised online and delivered.  At the very least online multiplatform games typically kept their online features on the PS2.  The PS2 had quite a lot of online games.  Easily over ten times what the Cube had.  Hell there are more online PS2 Madden games than online Cube games period.

In comparison Nintendo made no effort at all.  That looks horrible.  To make no effort gives the impression you don't care about pleasing your customers and with the Gamecube Nintendo should have been doing the opposite.  Hell, they actually LIED to us.  They said the Cube would be online.  They kept talking about vague plans that would be revealed at a later date and when it finally came time to reveal those plans it turned out there was no plan at all.  The plan was "we're not doing it".  They even sabotaged things so third parties couldn't go online.  They offered no assistance to any developers wanting to make online Cube games.  No documentation, no development kit, nothing.  Not going online when you told people you would is bad enough but preventing others from going online?  Come on!  What the hell?

It was never about online.  It was about a company not giving a f*ck.  That's why the Cube was a flop.

Ian, you apparently forget that Nintendo did include Online support for the GC in the form of optional adapters for broadband or dialup. They provided an option for third parties to offer online support to their games if they so choose, so you can't say Nintendo didn't provide the support because they most certainly did... it's just no one chose to take advantage of it. Well, there was that one Sega game which did. So the GC did have 1 online game, and it had all the tools necessary for there to have been more, but 3rd parties have that nasty habit of screwing over Nintendo's consoles, so they just refused to take advantage of that capability. That wasn't Nintendo's fault, though.

And the fact that there was 1 online GC game does mean that the GC did in fact go online. 1 isn't alot I'll grant you that, but any number higher than zero means that Nintendo kept their promise of the GC going online.
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Offline Flames_of_chaos

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Re: Why does Nintendo hate the Game Cube?
« Reply #114 on: June 07, 2008, 02:55:21 AM »
Correction there are 2 online enabled gamecube games, PSO 1 and 2, PSO 3 C.A.R.D
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Offline Plugabugz

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Re: Why does Nintendo hate the Game Cube?
« Reply #115 on: June 07, 2008, 05:27:35 AM »
Isn't there a Japan-only one too?

Offline Morari

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Re: Why does Nintendo hate the Game Cube?
« Reply #116 on: June 07, 2008, 09:02:40 AM »
That's the first time I've heard the XBox was easier to develop for than the GameCube.  I thought that was one of the 'Cubes strong points, was that it was so easy to develop for...

I thought that the Xbox was based around DirectX (duh) and Visual Studio? With the Xbox, you are essentially just coding for a PC with specific hardware. A lot of coders already have vast knowledge in working with that kind of platform, so while it may or may not be easier, it is probably more accessible.
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Offline UncleBob

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Re: Why does Nintendo hate the Game Cube?
« Reply #117 on: June 07, 2008, 12:28:41 PM »
Online GameCube Games;
Phantasy Star 1&2
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Offline Flames_of_chaos

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Re: Why does Nintendo hate the Game Cube?
« Reply #118 on: June 07, 2008, 12:42:05 PM »
That's the first time I've heard the XBox was easier to develop for than the GameCube.  I thought that was one of the 'Cubes strong points, was that it was so easy to develop for...


I thought that the Xbox was based around DirectX (duh) and Visual Studio? With the Xbox, you are essentially just coding for a PC with specific hardware. A lot of coders already have vast knowledge in working with that kind of platform, so while it may or may not be easier, it is probably more accessible.

Well while the xbox is pretty much like a PC in the ways of a Windows 2000 Kernel, Direct X 8.1.
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Offline animecyberrat

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Re: Why does Nintendo hate the Game Cube?
« Reply #119 on: June 07, 2008, 01:15:11 PM »
And GameCube was a Macintosh, no wonder it flopped.
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Offline ATimson

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Re: Why does Nintendo hate the Game Cube?
« Reply #120 on: June 07, 2008, 02:01:18 PM »
With the Xbox, you are essentially just coding for a PC with specific hardware. A lot of coders already have vast knowledge in working with that kind of platform, so while it may or may not be easier, it is probably more accessible.
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Offline DAaaMan64

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Re: Why does Nintendo hate the Game Cube?
« Reply #121 on: June 07, 2008, 02:05:23 PM »
And GameCube was a Macintosh, no wonder it flopped.

The killed the Macintosh name years ago.
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Offline Flames_of_chaos

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Re: Why does Nintendo hate the Game Cube?
« Reply #122 on: June 07, 2008, 02:43:36 PM »
And GameCube was a Macintosh, no wonder it flopped.

PowerPC based processor does not equal Mac a lot of Windows alternative computers used PPC architecture but the architecture got really popular with Mac until Apple went to intel for their chips. Hell Wii 360 and PS3 use modifications of the power pc architecture processor chipsets , Nintendo and MS use ATi and Sony uses Nvidia for graphics chips.   

Did you remember how early 360 dev kits were G5 Macs (the tower macs before apple made the intel switch).
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Offline animecyberrat

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Re: Why does Nintendo hate the Game Cube?
« Reply #123 on: June 07, 2008, 05:38:51 PM »
it was a joke.
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Offline Chozo Ghost

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Re: Why does Nintendo hate the Game Cube?
« Reply #124 on: June 07, 2008, 09:26:25 PM »
There's probably a significant advantage in Nintendo using PPC processors, as I would guess that makes it more difficult for pirates to create emulators for it, versus if it were a standard Intel processor. I could be wrong though, but I'm guessing that's something Nintendo probably considered. They've always been very tough on piracy of their games, and that's probably a large part of the reason why the GC uses tiny discs rather than standard DVDs.
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