Author Topic: Big question about Metroid Prime 3  (Read 6379 times)

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Offline Gamebasher

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Big question about Metroid Prime 3
« on: October 03, 2007, 07:40:29 AM »
I have for long been wondering if anybody in this forum could be so kind, and tell me if the latest Metroid game out for Wii is in any way as difficult as Metroid Prime 2 was? I had a huge problem playing to defeat the CHYKKA Boss in that game, and actually couldn´t do it, nomatter how many times I tried. I kept being knocked into the lava, and could simply not manage to find solid ground in time to save my energy meter simply because I couldn´t find them fast enough. I found it deplorable that Retro had not made the three little islands wider so they would be easier to see, find and jump over to during the quite tough fight against that monster. And that is why I gave up, after trying 30 times to do it. I kid you not. Since I had to give up defeating that boss, there was no more for me to do in that game. It was over. I couldn´t get any further into it. While I in no way lack any fighting spirit in games, I can only confess that I think that the videogame companies sometimes make things unnecessarily complicated thanks to level design issues. The original Metroid Prime game, which in my view was more manageable concerning Boss encounters, had much broader arenas to fight in, which I think is crucial with the legendary difficulty of the series taken into consideration. I completed that game, and now I am about to wonder if I should just give up playing the 3. game in the series in advance... or go for it?

Can any gamer in this forum tell me if Metroid Prime: Corruption is more like the original Metroid Prime, or more like the sequel (Echoes) in terms of difficulty? You can add the motion sensitive controls for good measure in your assesment if you like.

I will tell the great videogame God to bless any of you, who will kindly share your knowledge, and experience concerning that game with me. Thanks.

   
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Offline ShyGuy

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RE: Big question about Metroid Prime 3
« Reply #1 on: October 03, 2007, 07:43:46 AM »
Well, I didn't play Prime 2, but I find Prime 3 boss fights easier than Prime 1 just by virtue of the waggle shooting controls. Not to say they aren't hard (especially the first seed boss)

Offline Kairon

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RE:Big question about Metroid Prime 3 Boss difficulty
« Reply #2 on: October 03, 2007, 07:47:51 AM »
I'm sure others will give you better information than I, because I didn't play MP1 and 2 extensively, my younger brother did.

But what I CAN tell you is that even though I didn't get into the past MP games, I jumped into MP3's veteran mode for my first playthrough. I tend to suck at games, and I can't press the button fast enough to be a hardcore gamer like my roommate is. BUT... I can beat the bosses. Some fights take me a long time, but the only boss I've had trouble with so far is the second one... everyone else I find to be very satisfyingly challenging... but I can beat 'em. I've died maybe once or twice on those bosses... but for that darned second boss I died about 5 times before I finally downed him. But it felt great!
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Offline Gamebasher

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RE:Big question about Metroid Prime 3 Boss difficulty
« Reply #3 on: October 03, 2007, 07:55:35 AM »
Ok, ShyGuy. That is a good start for me. I did think that the motion sensitive controls would help! I always hated the fact that one had to move the darn analogue stick over to the target first before being able to fire away on it. That is not a natural way to do it. But now it is. Great. Will be cool to see if other gamers in this forum had similar experiences. I really loved the original Metroid Prime game. I am hoping that this one will be as good to explore in. That is, if I decide to buy it and play it.

And thanks to you too, Kairon for your generous feed-back. I think it seems now that the difficulty of the bosses has been lowered in Corruption. I really think that videogame companies should pay attention to how difficult a game is if they want to apppeal to a wider audience. I t isn´t all hardcore gamers who will defeat bosses that are hard already, and cry out for yet greater difficulty. If they were to call the shots, I think the videogame market would revert to the size it once had back a few decades!  
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Offline Stogi

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RE:Big question about Metroid Prime 3 Boss difficulty
« Reply #4 on: October 03, 2007, 09:06:21 AM »
Quote

Originally posted by: Kairon
I'm sure others will give you better information than I, because I didn't play MP1 and 2 extensively, my younger brother did.

But what I CAN tell you is that even though I didn't get into the past MP games, I jumped into MP3's veteran mode for my first playthrough. I tend to suck at games, and I can't press the button fast enough to be a hardcore gamer like my roommate is. BUT... I can beat the bosses. Some fights take me a long time, but the only boss I've had trouble with so far is the second one... everyone else I find to be very satisfyingly challenging... but I can beat 'em. I've died maybe once or twice on those bosses... but for that darned second boss I died about 5 times before I finally downed him. But it felt great!


Are you talking about Ice Man? Because I had trouble with him too. Though that is before I started raping hypermode. Once you do that, he's pretty easy.
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Offline Kairon

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RE:Big question about Metroid Prime 3 Boss difficulty
« Reply #5 on: October 03, 2007, 09:12:51 AM »
Yeah, but at that point I didn't have enough energy tanks and I started the battle not at full health since he interrupts a battle with some pirates.
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Offline Stogi

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RE: Big question about Metroid Prime 3 Boss difficulty
« Reply #6 on: October 03, 2007, 09:20:39 AM »
Ya...

I can see how you could be screwed. A good way to get health for hyper-mode is by shooting those balls of ice he shoots at you when he rides around.
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Offline Luigi Dude

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RE:Big question about Metroid Prime 3 Boss difficulty
« Reply #7 on: October 03, 2007, 09:36:42 AM »
As someone who's played through Prime 1 and 2 on Hard mode I'll tell you what the difficulty's are.

Normal Mode - The easiest Prime game, even easier then Prime 1's Normal Mode

Veteran Mode - Close to Prime 2's Hard Mode.  While not quite as hard as Prime 2 on Hard, it's pretty close and so if you had problems with Prime 2 on Normal, stay away from Veteran.

Hyper Mode - The hardest Prime game, makes Prime 2's Hard Mode look like Wind Waker.  Unless your an expert at the Prime games this mode will eat you alive.
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Offline stevey

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RE: Big question about Metroid Prime 3 Boss difficulty
« Reply #8 on: October 03, 2007, 10:32:13 AM »
Normal=press A, you win!

Veteran Mode: I didn't play a lot of it, but it's in between prime 1~2

Don't worry about it difficulty in Prime 3, everyone can beating it on normal (without dieing too. Expect for that stupid acid rain instant kill, SO #### CHEAP!!!1)
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Offline NinGurl69 *huggles

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RE: Big question about Metroid Prime 3 Boss difficulty
« Reply #9 on: October 03, 2007, 03:58:56 PM »
"I had a huge problem playing to defeat the CHYKKA Boss in that game, and actually couldn´t do it, nomatter how many times I tried. I kept being knocked into the lava, and could simply not manage to find solid ground in time to save my energy meter simply because I couldn´t find them fast enough."

Your jumping/dodging skills, and your awareness of your footwork is poor.  Simple as that.  Retro wanted you to jump, and Retro wanted you to realize you had to jump with a certain amount of technique to safely dodge the barrage(s).  Once you achieve that, you can RELIABLY stand your ground on the same platform until Chykka Adult switches phases.

There's more to these games than scanning and aiming at gigantic zits.  Give me a break.
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Offline NinGurl69 *huggles

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Offline BranDonk Kong

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RE: Big question about Metroid Prime 3 Boss difficulty
« Reply #11 on: October 03, 2007, 05:08:02 PM »
I don't like HAVING to use the Phazon beam on bosses, because it kills you, and it can really f you up if you miss a few shots here and there, and also because if you drop below 101 health, you can't use it.
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Offline Kairon

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RE: Big question about Metroid Prime 3 Boss difficulty
« Reply #12 on: October 03, 2007, 05:18:31 PM »
Neither do I Brandogg, but Retro WANTS you to. The developer is basically trying to get you to learn how to get the most out of the technique, like in Hyper Mode you'll need to actually learn how to stay in hyper-mode for as long as possible to maximize damage, maximize time spent invulnerable, and minimize life spent.
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Offline Stogi

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RE: Big question about Metroid Prime 3 Boss difficulty
« Reply #13 on: October 03, 2007, 05:41:55 PM »
I actually think that's pretty cool because it's challenging. I have yet to play Hyper-mode, but in Veteran mode even though I hated not being able to use Hyper-mode sometimes (not enough health), it gave an almost RPG-like element to the game. Having a little amount of anything is already kinda nerve-racking, but having to use it all the time and sometimes in large doses made the game more exciting and crazy.
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Offline King of Twitch

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RE: Big question about Metroid Prime 3 Boss difficulty
« Reply #14 on: October 03, 2007, 08:59:09 PM »
If you played the ice boss or the dragon boss of MP1, you have played every boss in MP3
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Offline IceCold

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RE:Big question about Metroid Prime 3 Boss difficulty
« Reply #15 on: October 03, 2007, 09:10:10 PM »
Thardus was amazing.
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Offline Gamebasher

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RE:Big question about Metroid Prime 3 Boss difficulty
« Reply #16 on: October 04, 2007, 02:17:18 AM »
Yes, he was. The greatest Boss I ever played against in any game ever! The way the missiles looked when equipping the infrared visor (sorry, I forgot the names of the visors in that game) was like something straight out of the gulfwar US bombing run footages on CNN years back.

Professional666 wrote:

"I had a huge problem playing to defeat the CHYKKA Boss in that game, and actually couldn´t do it, nomatter how many times I tried. I kept being knocked into the lava, and could simply not manage to find solid ground in time to save my energy meter simply because I couldn´t find them fast enough."

Your jumping/dodging skills, and your awareness of your footwork is poor. Simple as that. Retro wanted you to jump, and Retro wanted you to realize you had to jump with a certain amount of technique to safely dodge the barrage(s). Once you achieve that, you can RELIABLY stand your ground on the same platform until Chykka Adult switches phases.

There's more to these games than scanning and aiming at gigantic zits. Give me a break."

My answer:

I don´t think that is fair, Professional666! I clearly did describe that my problem was not being able to see the platforms in time, as they were too narrow to find quickly after being knocked off them by CHYKKA´s blasts. I knew how to dodge the shots and the attacks. My sole problem was the poor width, distance inbetween each platform and the way the camera showed the action on the screen.

That Boss was hugely aggressive, and when you have to concentrate on endless blasts coming in from something that comes at you from ever changing angles, steer Samus around while firing back with a control interface that is inferior as hell in comparison to how you could do it with Wii controls, and at the same time have to keep track of some not easily seen platforms shown from a very low horisontal view, and not a more usefull isometric/top-down view, or, better, a SM64 style switchable camera view during the fight - you can wind up in an awefull mess where you nolonger have the control your otherwise normally functioning jumping-dodging and footwork skills would give you. As I have already pointed out in my initial post, I have a problem with the level design in some games. And, I might add, the camera of same.

I frankly believe that many people in the world who play games, get annoyed, and stressed out over above described unnecessarily problematic level design- and camera issues. If you don´t, that is the way it is for you. I know many people who wouldn´t care to play a game which gives you multiple things to keep track of during a heated boss fight, cramped fingers from a joypad layout which is constricting as h... while adding to your situation by throwing poor visibility in your face TOO and tell you that you´re a c#nt if you can´t complete it! During most of MP2 poor outlook and -visibility was my major problem. Not ever jumping-dodging or aweness of footwork. Retro should listen to feedback such as mine, and not only to that of gamers who will play through a game such as MP2 like it was a holliday in the Seychelles!

We all have out strengths and weaknesses. But the games should be playable to fair degree. Difficulty in games has never in my view been effectively and fairly implemented through annoying camera angles or poorly measured out fighting ground, but through fighting technique and skill through experience alone. And who said that any person who plays Retro´s Metroid games for the first time will know by themselves what the game maker wants them to do? There´s nothing in the instruction book about how to play. Only what buttons trigger what in-game, and how they work. It would help if they would have included an in-game text file wich would give the gamer a lecture in how to play the Metroid games.  

And, Professional 666, who said that I think "There's more to these games than scanning and aiming at gigantic zits. Give me a break" ?

I didn´t ! We´re not in the Eye Toy department here, you know. This is serious combat.

Thanks for the video demo. That was awesome! I guess I will just go for MP3 even after all that trouble in MP2. It looks easier to go through.
   
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Offline JonLeung

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RE:Big question about Metroid Prime 3 Boss difficulty
« Reply #17 on: October 04, 2007, 05:09:01 PM »
I totally blew away Rundas in Hyper difficulty so quickly it almost wasn't even funny.  Just go into Hypermode and make the best of it.

The bosses are easy because you'd have already finished the game at least once so you don't have to "learn" how to beat them, and you're probably super-comfortable with the controls at this point too.

What IS totally tough (for me at least) are rooms with a bunch of Space Pirates.  While you can focus on a boss pretty easily with no other distractions, it's pretty easy to get wasted by even a few Space Pirates if you're distracted for a moment.  I'm stuck at the first turret part, grrr.  That's why I'm taking a break this week with a rented MySims.  :P

Offline NinGurl69 *huggles

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RE: Big question about Metroid Prime 3 Boss difficulty
« Reply #18 on: October 04, 2007, 06:47:28 PM »
"I knew how to dodge the shots and the attacks"

I can see your frustration with the camera view, but when you make a statement like the one above, the remaining problems you mention carry much less weight.  If you did dodge properly, you wouldn't get knocked off the platform, and you'd always return near the center of the platform if you were performing your circular dodge patterns like you were supposed to.  And you'd know your relative position on the platform by judging the spacing of the Light Bubble around you; floor not necessary.  And if the floor is to narrow to see after getting knocked off, why not focus your sights on the nearest Light Bubble?  Do some double-jumps to get enough elevation to see the floors?

Don't start complaining about camera issues when the primary issue is you getting hit.  If you get hit, you fall out, and it's gonna hurt a lot -- there's a lesson to learn.  Bongo Bongo in Ocarina of Time could easily get the upper hand on the player if he/she wasn't able to return Link to the platform properly; the real issue lies with avoiding/preventing the attacks that would knock Link off in the first place.

And the controller isn't a serious issue in the Chykka fight since most of the work involves tapping A-button really fast or timing charged shots, plus fancy footwork.  Aim?  No, cuz most of the time is spent auto-aiming via lock-on.  Aiming Seeker Missiles is a non-issue since Chykka isn't even fighting back when you use them.

And it's a shame the Seeker Missles are under-utilized in Prime3.
And it's a shame the Morph Ball challenges in Prime3 are steps below those in Prime2, which take place after Chykka is defeated.
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Offline Gamebasher

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RE:Big question about Metroid Prime 3 Boss difficulty
« Reply #19 on: October 04, 2007, 11:30:48 PM »
Like I already stated in my other replies to my post here, I am not the best at fighting when things get too heated up. even though I did know how to dodge the attacks, IF I didn´t avoid some of them, the punishment were too big. That´s kind of where I lost my timing, and momentum in there.

If I am to manage such a fight, where multiple factors come into play to determine if you win of lose the fight, I need bigger arenas where I wont have frustrating lack of space to worry about too. I sort of lose my overview of the fight. It is funny to see that in the video you included, showing Samus fight against the Bezerker thing, the arena is nice and wide for my taste to fight in. So that is kind of what I mean when talking about bigger arenas. Understand me now? I don´t need places to fall into by accident, when having to take on an aggressive boss. In the purple drenchhed nightmare that was MP2, many of the arenas that I fought in were constricted and narrow. That adds an unnecessary element of further difficulty in my view. I think it was already hard enough on the boss difficulty alone. But that is up to each gamer to decide what they feel they think is fun. For you it may have been fun, for me the opposite. Some people like the challenge to increase all of the time. In MP2 it seems that that is the kind of gamers which Retro had aimed the game for. Judging from what I now hear about MP3, it seems they have dropped some of that difficulty by including two different gaming modes.

The lightbubles in the fight against CHYKKA that you mention, I hardly noticed. I got so confused by being brutally knocked into that purple mass, and losing energy f-a-s-t, that I took too long to regain my overview of where they were and winded up at the end of the energy meter multiple times. So in the end, I started to realize that this wasn´t my kind of gaming fun at all. The later bosses were an even bigger problem I understand, so I thought I´d just forget it completely. The thing that most attracted me about MP games anyways was always the cool environments, and the cool exploration aspect of it all. So I think that is also the only reason why I ever cared to go up against the for me at the time never before seen difficulty of the boss fights in there. I mean, just to get to see the next areas of the gaming world. It was beautifull in MP1, and I hope it is so in MP3 again.

But thanks for the advices you´ve so far given me. I will probably not get to play MP2 again, because I don´t have the game anylonger, and if it ever comes to the VC I don´t think I will want to revert to classic controls once I try the Wii ones.  
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