Topic: Super Mario Bros 3 vs Super Mario Galaxy *(WARNING WORDS)*

[Darkheart]

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Every time I post in a thread I feel my posts are always short, goofy, or not all that meaningful and I never really give myself the time to make a well thought out post.  I have been having this whole Mario 3 vs Mario Galaxy thought going through my head lately and I realize this post is super wordy but I hope at least someone else reads this and feels the same as I do.
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In the wake of Super Mario Galaxy coming up I have been thinking a lot why I haven’t been excited for this game or any Mario game for that matter in the past 10 years.

My favorite Mario only game I have played would be Super Mario Bros 3.   Quick story on how I got the game.  Growing up even at age 5 I was a Nintendo freak, I had Mario and Zelda dĂ©cor all over my room and that is pretty much all I talked about.  My parents were not all that wealthy back then.  I remember at Christmas time writing my Santa list consisting of a 25 cent bag of chips and a bag of peppermint candies.  *yes my brain was not consumed with materialism at that age, it did in the later years tho :0*  Anyhow I woke up on Christmas morning expecting the 2 items but found an extra present underneath the tree being Super Mario Bros 3, I nearly cried my eyes out with happiness.  I really thought back then that Santa only gave you what you asked for.  Back then I had no clue on video game releases, I am not even sure if I knew the game existed at all.  Anyhow, I got super attached to the game and beat it countless times in the months following, finding every secret weapon, item, and world that I could find.  Since then I have tried every single Mario platformer released and none have come close of giving me that rush of happiness as that one time I played Mario 3.  

I know many people would say that I associated a happy day such as Christmas when I believed in Santa and associated the happy memory with the game therefore putting the game at an almost impossible standard no other could ever get however, that is wrong.  I have done a lot of thinking and comparing and I think I have reasons why the game still is superior.

Mario 3 standouts:
        -8 UNIQUE worlds
   -added items and an inventory to be used at free will prior to any level
       -inside each world were usually 10+ sub levels that ALL featured VARYING    environments and obstacles
       -Outstanding soundtrack one of Koji Kondo’s best
       -Varying paths, you rarely had to play every single sublevel you had a lot of branching paths to choose from
       -Varying power up suits immediately setting it apart from its predecessors
       -Warp whistles allowed anyone to quickly boot up the game and within a matter of minutes going to pretty much any world they                  wanted to start on
       -Great multiplayer options
       -The koopalings
       -etc

Now the games following Mario 3 were Super Mario World, Super Mario World 2 Yoshi’s Island, Super Mario 64, Super Mario Sunshine, and The New Super Mario Brothers.  

Super Mario World
I believe Super Mario World while not innovating too much proved to be an ok successor.  I think the reason why  the game didn’t feel quite in line with Mario 3 was because of the setting.  

Quick Pros:
   -Yoshi is introduced
   -New item the feather cape

Quick Cons:
   -Lots of powerups are axed from the previous game
   -Game feels much shorter
   -Inventory axed in favor for a one item slot
   
Yoshi’s Island I will not cover because in my eyes it is a separate franchise that has yet to be improved on from the original.  To me the game has the status of Mario 3 making it the best of its series that has had several tries to recapture the original mood but failed.

Mario 64
Mario 64 actually had me drooling with excitement and actually made me forget about Mario 3 for a long time.  I really did not have many problems with this game at all.  I felt like that Nintendo was on their way to having a 3-d Mario 3 game come next game.

Quick Pros:
   -A whole Mario game brought into the 3rd dimension
   -New powerups in the form of caps
   -Varying Worlds offering lots of platforming challenges
   -Memorable characters
   -New settings that would become trademark places such as Peach’s Castle

Quick Cons:
       -Some worlds to me felt like rehashed worlds just adding longevity to the game.

Super Mario Sunshine
Ah Super Mario Sunshine a.k.a. the only Mario game I never finished.  I think most of the people on the forum have spoken about why they don’t like the game and I am with them every step of the way.

Quick Pros:
   -Beautiful graphics and graphical effects
   -Bringing Yoshi back into 3-d and playable
   -A wider set of moves because of Fludd
   -I liked a lot of the music from the game

Quick Cons:
   -Fludd takes over all powerups
   -Yoshi is back but useless
   -Being forced on this island
   -Water themed levels force levels to have less variance
   -Locals forced onto us and into their world
   -Bowser Jr
       -Tropical setting had the same effect on the music making the songs catchy but in the end forcing it to not have a lot of variance.

The New Super Mario Bros
I was extremely excited for this game and sadly hyped up myself probably too much.  Nintendo promised a very old school look and feel to the Mario Franchise taking it back to its 2-d glory days.  This time however they would bring modern Mario elements such as his 3-d moveset, enemies from newer games, and a new look for Mario.  What we ended up with in my opinion was a bland too much of the same take on Super Mario 1.

Quick Pros:
   -The game was gorgeous on the Ds
   -Nostalgia everywhere
   -Promises of new Powerups
   -8 worlds
   -Completely new music

Quick Cons:
-Two of the worlds had to be unlocked meaning you were only playing 75% of the game and to unlock the rest.
-The new powerups were completely lame and had limited to no use
-A lot of the levels in my opinion felt very samey and boring
-I found myself playing more of the mini games then investing time in the main quest because I wasn’t really all that immersed in it to begin with.
-You could find 3 secret coins in each level to use in the secret store to buy extra features but the extra features were pretty lame * I am looking at you item screen wallpapers. . . *

When I first saw Galaxy I was pumped up and ready for a new Mario title but when the excitement died down I was severely worried about being disappointed again.  Today however Nintendo showed off many videos of the game and this is why I am excited again.

   -Promise of many powerups equaling perhaps as many as
        Mario 3
   -Varied levels
   -Unique Mario charm we have yet seen in any previous titles
   -Totally new soundtrack that is completely varied and well thought out
   -New concepts blending in with classic Mario play

Mario 3 in my opinion reinvented the idea of what a Mario game SHOULD be like and I am starting to feel my heart flutter a little bit thinking that Galaxy might just do the same.

Thanks so much for reading guys just had to get that out of my system.
 

[The Sailerman]

I agree almost wholeheartedly with you on this subject.
I completed Super Mario Sunshine, but after a few worlds, playing it seemed to become a chore, and the final battle just didn't have any of that "final battle" feeling to it, IMO. I've never even considered going back to get all the Shines - I think I have maybe 1 or 2 more than what was required to beat the game.

However, I believe Super Mario World is the best in the Mario platforming series. Though SMW was my first Mario game, which I also got unexpectedly for Christmas, so it has a similar value to me as SMB3 does to you.

[Mashiro]

As much as I like SMB3, I remember enjoying SMW more. Just on a personal enjoyment level.

[IceCold]

First, I'd like to say that I'm a certifiable Mario platformer whore, and I have probably always been more excited about Galaxy than anyone on this forum. The series is one of the few reasons I still play games today. To me, it's nearly impossible to choose between most Mario games, because they're so good. It usually comes down to nostalgia and my sentimentalism when deciding which one is "best".

Having said that, the original Super Mario Bros is my favourite game of all time. The joy that you had playing SMB3, I had with SMB. It was the first videogame I ever played, and I was mesmerised by it. No other game given me that feeling since... Mario 64 came close, though, which is why it's my second favourite Mario game.

If you put emotions aside, though, and do a technical breakdown like you did, Super Mario Bros 3 won't be denied. It's probably the closest to technical perfection that a game has ever gotten, even after nearly 20 years. Super Mario World is very impressive too, but SMB3 is just incredible.

As for Galaxy, well we'll just have to see how it stacks up, won't we? I said at E3 2006, when it was first revealed, that I haven't felt such a longing for a game since the 64 era. And now we're only a month away.

EDIT: But I'll have to say that I disagree with you completely on Sunshine, and somewhat on NSMB. Sunshine was lightyears ahead of any platformer out there.. hell, it still is. The control was perfectly tight, FLOOD is awesome, the challenge was there, and I didn't feel the setting was forced at all. Plus the water and the draw distances. I spent hours playing around in the water or getting to the peak of every level just to gaze in the distance. Sunshine is severly over-criticised by fans.

About New Super Mario Bros, it's still one of my Top 3 DS games. The game didn't focus on powerups, which is why many people were turned off, but the pure platforming was just fine. Also, the fact that it was the first 2D Mario game in 10 years made it much fresher to me.

Of course, it couldn't stand up against the S/NES Mario games though.. but then again, which games can? I read that EAD didn't develop it; it was another internal Nintendo team. That's probably why it wasn't as innovative as some would have liked. But that still doesn't take away from the fact that it's a quality game.  

[Darkheart]

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Having said that, the original Super Mario Bros is my favourite game of all time. The joy that you had playing SMB3, I had with SMB. It was the first videogame I ever played, and I was mesmerised by it. No other game given me that feeling since... Mario 64 came close, though, which is why it's my second favourite Mario game.

Well see Super Mario Bros was my first game and nothing could ever replace that feeling that I got from playing that game but its the game that hooked me on the series.  Mario 2 made me love the game even more and 3 just set this landmark.   It is hard to describe, Super Mario Bros 1 is the probably the most significant video game I have played but I still stand by that I probably had more fun playing 3 than 1.  I personally didnt include Mario 1 or 2 in my original post because I was comparing 3 and on.   There is no reason to argue older games than 3 because they made 3 what it was.   I think Mario 1 is in  a category of its own anyways because it can't be criticized since it was the first.

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About New Super Mario Bros, I have no doubt that it's one of my Top 3 DS games. The game didn't focus on powerups, which is why many people were turned off, but the pure platforming was just fine. Also, the fact that it was the first 2D Mario game in 10 years made it much fresher to me.

Of course, it couldn't stand up against the S/NES Mario games though.. but then again, which games can? I read that EAD didn't develop it; it was another internal Nintendo team. That's probably why it wasn't as innovative as some would have liked. But that still doesn't take away from the fact that it's a quality game.

The fact that it was the first 2d Mario game in 10 years made it in my opinion VERY IMPORTANT that it should be doing something that wasn't done before.  10 years is plenty of time to think of new ideas.  I know it was not like they were sitting at a desk brainstorming for 10 years but c'mon they had to have at least ideas like "If we did a brand new 2-d Mario game it would have to be like this.....or have this.....or do that.....or have this new feature".   I really felt left out as a fan when they announced that the newest Mario sidescroller in 10 years would be a redesign of the first game . . . .

[Michael8983]

Oh noes. SO many words, it hurts my brain.

No, seriously, I completely agree. I think you're being a little hard on Sunshine and NSMB but I do suspect they will pale in comparison to Galaxy.
You could tell Miyamoto was upset with the somewhat luke-warm reception to Sunshine so he's putting a lot more care into this game to make sure it doesn't dissapoint.

[KDR_11k]

I think axing 3's powerups and 64's moves was a good thing, both had way too many of them. Personally I prefer SMW's level design over 3's and IMO 64's levels were just a random mess of geometric shapes.

What I liked about NSMB is that it had no flight powerup.

Sunshine started out fun, with new stuff going on all the time. It quickly went downhill when no more events happened in the city though. The game ending criterium is total crap as well. Wasn't the point of the stars in 64 to let you choose which tasks to complete? Sunshine forced you into a certain list with everything else being optional. Finishing up the last few levels to get to Bowser made it feel like one big chore. The stars shouldn't have been forced into a certain order, while I understand that Nintendo wanted to let stars change the level they're in they shouldn't have locked later stars away. That completely defeated the point of having large levels to explore. OTOH I felt that M64 had too many stars per level, too and could have done with fewer instead of a forced number.

[optimisticlimbo]

I agree with darkheart's post.  My biggest problem with Sunshine wasn't the setting but with the shines themselves.  Why on earth could you BUY a shine for blue coins?  They're island is 'dying' and this guy is hording them away for profit.  So basically, the later shines that required endless coin searching are the ones I never bothered with.
As for NSMB, it's still one of my top DS games.  One of the few games on DS that I wanted to  play to 100% complete and felt good about it.  (This is of course disregarding that the reward of wallpapers was terrible, at least the game itself was fun.)

[Artisto16]

I'm a fan of all the Mario games. SMB3 was my favorite because it's drastic increase in quality from the previous Mario Bros game (truly, Super Mario Bros 1). Even though I enjoyed SMBW more than 3, 3 had that impact. SMBW was just a minor improvement on 3 in my opinion and not the giant leap in quality, which was fine.

As for Sunshine and Mario DS, I'm not as much a fan. I felt Sunshine was frustratingly difficult at times, and I don't have that kind of time to dedicate to gaming anymore. Also, given that there was a central theme involved (Delfino Plaza), the levels had a similar feel. This is cool but I'm not used to it in a Mario game. I also felt the DS game was just too short. SMB3 felt like a longer title (more levels, more pathways in levels, more items and bonuses, etc). I would have liked to see a return of the Koopa Kids instead of fighting the generic Koopa Kid every time. I did appreciate the different boss battles, and not Bowser after every level. Mario DS was more about the nostalgia.

I have the feeling that Mario Galaxies will be able to recapture that extra something that SMB3 and Mario 64 had that Sunshine and DS didn't.

[Hostile Creation]

"and I have probably always been more excited about Galaxy than anyone on this forum"

I contest this claim.

[Spak-Spang]

Interesting discussion.  

I must say I am going to have a very different opinion than probably most of the people in this thread.

My favorite Mario game is Super Mario World 2: Yoshi's Island.

I believe this game had some of the deepest platforming elements and Level Design of any 2D platforming game ever created to this day.  It is also one of the games that I feel really felt within the game that world is bigger than you.  There was elements that were streamlined like made it feel more like a game.  (The level select not being part of the world, but a wierd map interface.  But the game is amazing is the game the innovated and created Yoshi into the character we know today.

My second favorite Mario game is Super Mario World.

Many may say that World is a step backwards from Super Mario 3 because of the lack of powerups, and possibly even a lack of levels.  But, I always thought that World was much more refined and balanced than Mario 3 ever could be.  Instead of focusing on creating several powerups you may or may not see in the game.  Super Mario World limited the powerups, but then designed the levels to play well with all the powerups in mind.  Every level is beatable without needing a powerup...and that is simply not as true with Super Mario 3.  Finally, my favorite aspect of World was the interconnectedness of the world.  You saw how Mario progressed throughout his journey.  There were secret paths that gave you shortcuts through the world, or even completely new paths, of all the Mario games World created a better well world for you to exist and play in.

From here on out...my opinion pretty much lines up with everybody else.  Mario 3, Super Mario Bros, New Super Mario Bros, Super Maro 2 for the 2D games.

As for the 3D Marios I would rank Mario 64 top for the variety and diversity of the levels.  Super Mario 64 is truly an amazing experience for all those that got to play it during the Nintendo 64 era and the emergance of 3D platforming.

But, I believe Super Mario Sunshine literally does everything better than Super Mario 64.  The control in Sunshine is the best controlling platformer to date.  It is smooth and easy to control Mario, bring the challenge to the game from actual level design instead of annoying camera and control deaths.  The world presented in Sunshine is a wonderful island that feels connected to each other and feels real.  If Sunshine would of had the variety of typical Mario games it would have been a breathtaking game of unparalleled design...just like Super Mario 64 was in its day.

With that in Mind I would probably rank My Favorite Mario games as:
Yoshi's Island, Super Mario World, Super Mario 64, Super Mario Sunshine, Super Mario 3, Super Mario Bros, New Super Mario Bros, Super Mario 2

[Hostile Creation]

Spak-spang, while not voicing my opinions word for word, gives a pretty good rendition of what I would have said in this conversation if I had the will to do so.
So thanks for making my job easier

[IceCold]

Quote
Originally posted by: Hostile Creation
"and I have probably always been more excited about Galaxy than anyone on this forum"

I contest this claim.

It's uncontestable

[Spak-Spang]

Quote
Originally posted by: Hostile Creation
Spak-spang, while not voicing my opinions word for word, gives a pretty good rendition of what I would have said in this conversation if I had the will to do so.
So thanks for making my job easier

Thanks, but if you were to write it then it would have far fewer grammar, punctuation, and spelling mistakes...just like this post.

[Nephilim]

Super Mario World felt shorter? if anything game felt more epic then 3 as u could to move around...
when I got stuck in world 8 in 3, I just gave up alot of the times... while in world I had so much freedom to go back and find secret routes

[Spak-Spang]

DeadlyD:  Very True.  Level 8 on Super Mario 3 was/is one of the most ridiculously challenging sets of levels in any Mario game.  It is so frustrating, that people save up their P Wings just to avoid 1/2 the level.  

Also, Super Mario World's levels are all longer than Super Mario 3.  There are quite a few levels in 3 that are just way to short, to the point I don't even feel I am playing level at all.  I think in a way the level designers just kinda went crazy throwing every idea at the game possible.  Many of it worked amazingly well, but many ideas were not as successful.  

[NWR_insanolord]

I must be really great at SMB3 then, because I don't find World 8 all that challenging, except maybe the one with all the little airships, and the final castle is way too easy.

In my opinion Super Mario Bros. 3 is the greatest game of all time, and Super Mario 64 is 3rd. Super Mario World is great but not on the same level as those 2. And I don't consider Yoshi's Island a Mario game, it's its own thing, but it's one of the finest platformers ever, and in my mind the best platformer on the SNES. I enjoyed NSMB, but it's last in this group as far as I'm concerned.

As for Super Mario Galaxy, from what I've seen it has a chance to be better than SM64. I didn't think Sunshine had that chance prior to its release, and I didn't give either WW or TP a chance to be better than OoT prior to their releases. Galaxy is special, I really can't wait to play it, and whether it surpasses 64 or not, I think this is going to be one of the best gaming experiences in recent memory, and I think it'll be Game of the Year, even over Brawl.

[KDR_11k]

I agree with Spak that SMW's levels are longer than SMB3's. When I played SMB3 again some years ago I was constantly surprised how short the levels were. The absense of mid-level checkpoints may have made it hard to make them longer though. Also SMW's branching pathes allow playing through without seeing many levels, in SMB3 you at least saw that they were there.

Personally I didn't like YI as much as SMW. Comes down to personal preference I guess but YI is one of my least favourite Mario games.

[Spak-Spang]

KDR:  That is a fair assessment.  Yoshi's Island is a very different platformer and its gameplay mechanics focused on different things.  

Yoshi Island for me was incredible because of the art direction (very unique for the time) and just how much stuff was going on per level and how much animation was on screen.  There were so many different kind of enemies and each seemed to have its own personality.  It was all very whimsical and fun to play.  

[Hostile Creation]

I haven't played SMB3 in forever (at least, not from start to finish), but I remember when I was eight it was always the timed level in the eighth world that kicked my ass.

[GoldenPhoenix]

Hmmm. Here are my brief impressions of the Mario games, ranked from my favorite to least favorite:

1. Super Mario Bros. 3-Perhaps it is nostalgia but I have never fell in love with a game like I did with Mario 3. It had flawless level design for the most part, a good challenge, tons of secrets which was pretty rare for a platformer then, not to mention some of the most diverse worlds in gaming. The game oozed charm, and I don't think any game will ever knock this out of its place.

2. Super Mario World-Perhaps this isn't the most innovative Mario game, but boy it was fun! It has some of the best level designs around and wide assortment of fun enemies. Even the boss fights were varied, and alot of fun

3. Super Mario Sunshine- Perhaps the best 3D platformer yet, it combined everything that made Mario 64 and then some. It had some of the coolest boss battles in a Mario game, some of which used the whole world. Not only that but the missions were varied, and perhaps some of the most diverse in a platformer. Each world had something that made it unique, whether it be the hotel, the amusement park or even the beach. It was also a blast to interact with the inhabitants and see the world change as your got the shine sprites.

4. Mario 64- A wonderful game that revolutionized 3D platforming, who would have thought in this gaming world that we once controlled 3D games with the control pad! The game is almost flawlessly designed, and while it is pretty basic compared to newer platformers, it still holds up quite well. One of the few games that motivated me to collect all the items, such as the 120 stars, and all 150 stars in the DS version.

5. Yoshi's Island-Not much to say except that the gameplay has yet to be matched. It was beautiful and fun, with some great boss battles.

6. Yoshi's Island DS- I know this isn't a fan favorite, but I found it to be a solid successor to Yoshi's Island. It loses points for being too much of the same, but still it was a fun experience

7. SMB2 (American)-Not my favorite Mario by any means but it still is a solid game, and light years beyond the disappointing "fan made" like SMB2.

8. NSMB- It took 10 years to get this? Talk about barebones, this felt like a dummied down (yet fun) remake of SMB1. I was extremely dissapointed in the boss fights, especially with the reuse of the enemy characters as bosses. It felt lazy all around with a lame final boss fight.

9. SMB-I don't think this game has stood the test of time, but I can still get enjoyment from this.

10. SMB2 (Japan)-Perhaps the laziest sequel Nintendo has created, I really don't have much good to say about this game.    

[ShyGuy]

Yoshi's Island DS greater than, greater than, greater than Super Mario Bros....

[IceCold]

Yoshi's Island DS is abhorrent. The whole mystique of the original game was how.. well.. original it was. Artoon killed all of that by doing such a generic sequel. Plus it wasn't even fun.

[D_Average]

Just bought Sunshine a couple weeks ago and MAN.....the controls make me want to quit video games.  After spending so much time w/ Galaxy and 64 recently, controlling Mario here feels like a chore.  In the words of Miyamoto, it almost feels like a "Sega" game, particularly when using the FLUDD.

Anyone else have this frustration?  Most of the reviews I've read don't really mention it.  I almost wonder if they were messing around with IR during this iteration and contemplated selling a new controller w/ the game. 

That said, I still dig the Sunshine idea as a offbeat Mario game, I wouldn't mind a Wii sequel at alll.

[GoldenPhoenix]

I had some trouble with Sunshine at first but it soon became second nature. Glad you are enjoying the game regardless.