Topic: Official Samus Discussion

[UERD]

Sorry, I'm a bit dazed. I guess this is what happens when you reply to a topic having only read the last post.

[Sir_Stabbalot]

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Originally posted by: UERD
Sorry, I'm a bit dazed. I guess this is what happens when you reply to a topic having only read the last post.

I know how you feel, mate.

[Sir_Stabbalot]

WARNING! LONG RAMBLING POST!

I think the main issue I have with the Zero-Suit isn't the theory, it might be a neat twist on Samus' gameplay style. The problem I have is how sexualized she is. Now, that might be open to debate, but I think that the ultra skin-tight jumpsuit is sexualized. It also contrasts to her armor too much. The suit's got broad shoulders and appears built for someone who would be in good shape. By "good shape" I mean well-toned, not near anorexic like most video game heroines. But outside the suit the poor gal's skinny as a rail. Seriously, she looks more like a model then a soldier. Just like most cliché video game heroines.

Samus has, through most of the games, been presented as a stoic heroine, a world-weary warrior with seemingly no connections to any individual people. That's something that most games haven't touched on. Characters such as Link or Mario are mostly silent, but aren't stoic. Most heroes are either raging berserkers who are out to avenge something, military men fighting because it's their duty, or men struggling with an internal conflict or troubling past. Samus is none of these. Her actions against the Space Pirates are more because she's been hired to deal with them then out of revenge. She probably doesn't even remember her parents. After all, if she had wanted to strike at the pirates, she'd have done so long before the Federation hired her.

The gaming industry is pumped full of so-called "video game babes", female characters who really serve no purpose but to appease the fanbase. Bloodrayne, Lara Croft and any female Dead or Alive character come to mind. Totally one dimensional characters whose 3D image is meant only to be pleasing to a male audience. Now, maybe it's just because I've grown out of the "lol bewbs" age, but I prefer characters with, y'know, personality. Why would an experienced soldier wear some skimpy outfit instead of actual armor? There has been some that break the mold, like Alyx Vance (who, while not wearing armor, at least dresses normally), but the cliché is still going strong.

So that's it. I just don't want the so-called "First Lady of Gaming" to become another cliché.

[/rant]  

[Mashiro]

Quote
Originally posted by: Sir_Stabbalot
WARNING! LONG RAMBLING POST!

I think the main issue I have with the Zero-Suit isn't the theory, it might be a neat twist on Samus' gameplay style. The problem I have is how sexualized she is. Now, that might be open to debate, but I think that the ultra skin-tight jumpsuit is sexualized. It also contrasts to her armor too much. The suit's got broad shoulders and appears built for someone who would be in good shape. By "good shape" I mean well-toned, not near anorexic like most video game heroines. But outside the suit the poor gal's skinny as a rail. Seriously, she looks more like a model then a soldier. Just like most cliché video game heroines.

Samus has, through most of the games, been presented as a stoic heroine, a world-weary warrior with seemingly no connections to any individual people. That's something that most games haven't touched on. Characters such as Link or Mario are mostly silent, but aren't stoic. Most heroes are either raging berserkers who are out to avenge something, military men fighting because it's their duty, or men struggling with an internal conflict or troubling past. Samus is none of these. Her actions against the Space Pirates are more because she's been hired to deal with them then out of revenge. She probably doesn't even remember her parents. After all, if she had wanted to strike at the pirates, she'd have done so long before the Federation hired her.

The gaming industry is pumped full of so-called "video game babes", female characters who really serve no purpose but to appease the fanbase. Bloodrayne, Lara Croft and any female Dead or Alive character come to mind. Totally one dimensional characters whose 3D image is meant only to be pleasing to a male audience. Now, maybe it's just because I've grown out of the "lol bewbs" age, but I prefer characters with, y'know, personality. Why would an experienced soldier wear some skimpy outfit instead of actual armor? There has been some that break the mold, like Alyx Vance (who, while not wearing armor, at least dresses normally), but the cliché is still going strong.

So that's it. I just don't want the so-called "First Lady of Gaming" to become another cliché.

[/rant]

That was the best post on the whole Zero Suit debate thus far.

/clap

/agree

And I'll say it again, while they may be TRYING to sexualize here I think they fail horribly so it's not even like they succeeded in doing what they were trying to do. /shameonnintendo

[Sir_Stabbalot]

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Originally posted by: Mashiro
That was the best post on the whole Zero Suit debate thus far.

/clap

/agree

And I'll say it again, while they may be TRYING to sexualize here I think they fail horribly so it's not even like they succeeded in doing what they were trying to do. /shameonnintendo

Thanks. Posts like these are what you get when I've got too much time on my hands.

And I agree, she doesn't even look good. The hair, face and body don't resemble her at all.  

[Dirk Temporo]

Because you know better than Nintendo what Samus looks like.

[Ceric]

I don't know.  Personally I think that Samus should be more toned and the like much like a ballerina, professional there realy realy buff all over when you see them in person.  Though I don't think here model is aneroxic either.  I mean Samus has some back to her.  She doesn't seem to be as thins as rails.

Now on the whole Zero Suit thing.  Samus has been leaving her suit since the first game.  Its as much of her character as the Red and Yellow Power Armor is.  I wish they would have kept the Purple hair because its a nod too that she isn't fully human even if it was done because of a limitted palette.  By the end of this though it will be hard to say what she is.

I mean you have the Chozo who meddled with here, then Phazon corrupting here, and finally her suit fusing with with her allowing her to absorb X energy.  Lets face it, Samus ain't having kids and insurance probably doesn't cover her.  Yes, Samus is stoic and a little brooding.  She embodies isolation itself most of the time.  Their is only really one Metroid that I've played were Samus touches on her past and you get to hear some of her inner thoughts.  Which I thought was done well.  I think its a good thing to have something that does that sort of perpective every once in a while.  Though  I wouldn't make it an integrated part of the experience.

Throughout the other games, especially Prime, you learn about Samus from her Myth not from her.  All those logs of the Space pirates who were terrified and held her in awe at the same time.  In MP3 people are suppose to start talking about the legends of her deeds as you come near.  Its an interesting way to tell a story.  Its like have a narrator but being their in a way.

[Sir_Stabbalot]

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Originally posted by: Dirk Temporo
Because you know better than Nintendo what Samus looks like.

I know not to change a character for no reason.

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Originally posted by: Ceric
I don't know.  Personally I think that Samus should be more toned and the like much like a ballerina, professional there realy realy buff all over when you see them in person.  Though I don't think here model is aneroxic either.  I mean Samus has some back to her.  She doesn't seem to be as thins as rails.

I still say she's too skinny.

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Now on the whole Zero Suit thing.  Samus has been leaving her suit since the first game.  Its as much of her character as the Red and Yellow Power Armor is.  I wish they would have kept the Purple hair because its a nod too that she isn't fully human even if it was done because of a limitted palette.  By the end of this though it will be hard to say what she is.

Hmmph, you raise a good point there. I always thought the out-of-suit thing seemed odd for her character. Taking the helmet off was fine, though. It's just this goes beyond just one moment at the end of a mission, but brings her closer to the cliché of near-naked warriors.

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I mean you have the Chozo who meddled with here, then Phazon corrupting here, and finally her suit fusing with with her allowing her to absorb X energy.  Lets face it, Samus ain't having kids and insurance probably doesn't cover her.  Yes, Samus is stoic and a little brooding.  She embodies isolation itself most of the time.  Their is only really one Metroid that I've played were Samus touches on her past and you get to hear some of her inner thoughts.  Which I thought was done well.  I think its a good thing to have something that does that sort of perpective every once in a while.  Though  I wouldn't make it an integrated part of the experience.

Exactly. She's not fully human anymore, and that's something that add a lot to the story. There's a lot of depth to her, but it's not stated loudly.

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Throughout the other games, especially Prime, you learn about Samus from her Myth not from her.  All those logs of the Space pirates who were terrified and held her in awe at the same time.  In MP3 people are suppose to start talking about the legends of her deeds as you come near.  Its an interesting way to tell a story.  Its like have a narrator but being their in a way.

I've been avoiding previews of MP3 so I don't spoil the plot, but that sounds like a brilliant move to me.  

[Bill Aurion]

"Hmmph, you raise a good point there. I always thought the out-of-suit thing seemed odd for her character."

I dunno, I know that if I had just busted my butt to save/destroy a planet, I'd want that power suit OFF...It's essentially a weapon, not a second skin... =3

[Sir_Stabbalot]

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Originally posted by: Bill Aurion
"Hmmph, you raise a good point there. I always thought the out-of-suit thing seemed odd for her character."

I dunno, I know that if I had just busted my butt to save/destroy a planet, I'd want that power suit OFF...It's essentially a weapon, not a second skin... =3

Actually, that is a good rebuttal.  

[UERD]

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Now, maybe it's just because I've grown out of the "lol bewbs" age, but I prefer characters with, y'know, personality.

The voice of reason shines down upon us tonight.

Although, to be fair, it could have been worse. There were Soul Caliber 2 promo images where you could see the nipples protruding through the cloth.

[Dasmos]

This is the worst thread in the history of anything.

[that Baby guy]

It's getting far too popular.  Samus demands her own sub-forum, exclusively for talking about her in Smash Bros.  And with no clothessuit.

[Ceric]

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Originally posted by: thatguy
It's getting far too popular.  Samus demands her own sub-forum, exclusively for talking about her in Smash Bros.  And with no clothessuit.

We have yet to start talking about O-Suit Samus.

[Sir_Stabbalot]

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Originally posted by: Dasmos
This is the worst thread in the history of anything.

I'm afraid these fine fellows have me beat in that aspect.

[Dirk Temporo]

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Originally posted by: Sir_Stabbalot

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Originally posted by: Dirk Temporo
Because you know better than Nintendo what Samus looks like.

I know not to change a character for no reason.

Changing her? Show me more detailed in-game models of Samus without her power suit.

[Sir_Stabbalot]

Quote
Originally posted by: Dirk Temporo
Changing her? Show me more detailed in-game models of Samus without her power suit.

I meant changing her character, but I do remember there being a difference in her appearance in Metroid Prime 1 and Echoes. Now, Google Image search isn't being very helpful, so here's the best I can do:


There's Samus' face in Prime. Note the hair. It's not the horribly artificial yellow color that they try to call blond, nor is it in some funky 3 1/2 foot pony tail with huge bangs.

I don't have any other evidence, but I think in Echoes Retro went back to the Zero Suit. Why I don't know...

[stevey]

No, MP1 had same the pony tail....

and MP2 isn't much different


Sure her hair longer and she redied it a different blond, but 2 takes place 8 month~ after MP1 so it would be weird if she didn't have a different haircut.

[Mashiro]

I really enjoyed how Samus looked in MP1.

Screw the Zero Suit. Down with the Zero Suit!

[Bill Aurion]

More like crappy, generic realistic direction the series never was about in the first place...

[mantidor]

The MP1 look is universally loved and the ZM look unversally hated (except for Bill of course). Its just absurd how Nintendo pretends to deny this.

Again, Super Metroid did it great, a girl with defined muscles, because its only logical with the whole training and giant armor wearing, still, long hair and cute underwear are unrealistic which is why I really don't mind the skin tight suit, it also makes sense.

If you think about it its illogical she's going to wear a bikini, she should be naked! is an incredibly advanced armor made by an alien race, what is the point of wearing underwear? of course there would be riots with a female shown naked sadly*, so the skinsuit is a perfect compromise, I always saw it as a perfect interface with the big suit, it even has some weird connections in the back.

The real bad thing about that model is the ridiculous haircut, super model body and, most importantly, how now magically comes off, we all know theres only one reason this happened in ZM and will happen in Brawl.

Quote
Originally posted by: Ceric

Throughout the other games, especially Prime, you learn about Samus from her Myth not from her.  All those logs of the Space pirates who were terrified and held her in awe at the same time.  In MP3 people are suppose to start talking about the legends of her deeds as you come near.  Its an interesting way to tell a story.  Its like have a narrator but being their in a way.

I loved that except for the bit when everyone knew she was a female human. Yes I know the gimmick "surprise Samus is a girl!" is old and tired, but the Metroid universe from the first title was based in how "his true form was shrouded in mystery", no one should know she's a woman, the shouldn't even now she's human!






*actually Homeworld pull it off incredibly well with Karen S'jet, a character who is indeed naked and connected to a giant mothership, and she never felt sexualized at all, I'm sad to say this but she's now a better female character than what Nintendo turned Samus into.

[Bill Aurion]

"The MP1 look is universally loved and the ZM look unversally hated (except for Bill of course). Its just absurd how Nintendo pretends to deny this."

Amazing how Mashiro + mantidor = universal!  Could I see the steps you took to come up with that formula? =O

[Sir_Stabbalot]

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Originally posted by: stevey
No, MP1 had same the pony tail....
<Image clipped to save space>
and MP2 isn't much different
<Image clipped to save space>
<Image clipped to save space>
Sure her hair longer and she redied it a different blond, but 2 takes place 8 month~ after MP1 so it would be weird if she didn't have a different haircut.

Alright, finally found a pic from Echoes:

Her face is totally changed, and she has a completely different hair style. Frankly, it makes me glad I didn't get around to beating the last boss... She looks terrible.

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Originally posted by: Bill Aurion
More like crappy, generic realistic direction the series never was about in the first place...

So the series direction is generic cliché Dead or Alive chick wannabe?

Quote
Originally posted by: mantidor
The MP1 look is universally loved and the ZM look unversally hated (except for Bill of course). Its just absurd how Nintendo pretends to deny this.

Again, Super Metroid did it great, a girl with defined muscles, because its only logical with the whole training and giant armor wearing, still, long hair and cute underwear are unrealistic which is why I really don't mind the skin tight suit, it also makes sense.

Agreed.

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If you think about it its illogical she's going to wear a bikini, she should be naked! is an incredibly advanced armor made by an alien race, what is the point of wearing underwear? of course there would be riots with a female shown naked sadly*, so the skinsuit is a perfect compromise, I always saw it as a perfect interface with the big suit, it even has some weird connections in the back.

Wait, oh, you're right. It does have some connection spots. I still wish it had more technical bits. I'd expect some padding at least so she isn't bruised to hell when the mission is finally over.

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The real bad thing about that model is the ridiculous haircut, super model body and, most importantly, how now magically comes off, we all know theres only one reason this happened in ZM and will happen in Brawl.

Quote
Originally posted by: Ceric<Snip>

I loved that except for the bit when everyone knew she was a female human. Yes I know the gimmick "surprise Samus is a girl!" is old and tired, but the Metroid universe from the first title was based in how "his true form was shrouded in mystery", no one should know she's a woman, the shouldn't even now she's human!

You do bring up a good point. The "SHE'S A GIRL?!?" shock isn't there anymore, and she's going to need a new direction. Unfortunately, it seems both of us don't like the direction Nintendo's taking her.

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*actually Homeworld pull it off incredibly well with Karen S'jet, a character who is indeed naked and connected to a giant mothership, and she never felt sexualized at all, I'm sad to say this but she's now a better female character than what Nintendo turned Samus into.

Well, that makes prefect sense. She's inside a giant ship and doesn't need to be move, or worry about getting shot as she's inside it's hull. And yeah, it saddens me too.

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Originally posted by: Bill Aurion
"The MP1 look is universally loved and the ZM look unversally hated (except for Bill of course). Its just absurd how Nintendo pretends to deny this."

Amazing how Mashiro + mantidor = universal!  Could I see the steps you took to come up with that formula? =O

You forgot me in that list. Sadly Bill, you're outvoted. >=).    

[Mashiro]

As we all know Bill, I am the one who sets forth what is universally liked and disliked. It's just how it is.

[Bill Aurion]

Uh oh, I see universal opinions are determined by endless fanboy whining... =3