Author Topic: Official Samus Discussion  (Read 43816 times)

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Offline Sir_Stabbalot

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RE:Official Samus Discussion
« Reply #75 on: August 12, 2007, 10:19:24 AM »
Quote

Originally posted by: Bill Aurion
Uh oh, I see universal opinions are determined by endless fanboy whining... =3


Or democracy. It's three against one. U LOZE!!!!1!11!
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Offline Bill Aurion

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RE: Official Samus Discussion
« Reply #76 on: August 12, 2007, 10:23:35 AM »
You fail at the term "universal"!

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Offline Sir_Stabbalot

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RE:Official Samus Discussion
« Reply #77 on: August 12, 2007, 10:26:38 AM »
Quote

Originally posted by: Bill Aurion
You fail at the term "universal"!

*giant novelty mallet over Stabby's head*


*BONK*

Uh, ow?

Well, he said universal except for Bill, so it still holds water. And even if not universal, it's the majority.

Also, you haven't refuted my rebuttals. Heh heh heh...
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Offline mantidor

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RE:Official Samus Discussion
« Reply #78 on: August 12, 2007, 10:31:50 AM »
Quote

Originally posted by: Bill Aurion
Uh oh, I see universal opinions are determined by endless fanboy whining... =3


We need to fill up this new smash forum! I don't know a better way than to whine

I'm not basing my opinion on a hunch though, every single comment on videos of youtube or gametrailers, every single metroid thread I've read here and elsewhere, hell even this article, everyone, everywhere seems to agree. MP1 samus > mp2/ZM samus.  
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Offline Bill Aurion

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RE: Official Samus Discussion
« Reply #79 on: August 12, 2007, 10:38:46 AM »
"I'm not basing my opinion on a hunch though, every single comment on videos of youtube or gametrailers, every single metroid thread I've read here and elsewhere, hell even this article, everyone, everywhere seems to agree. MP1 samus > mp2/ZM samus."

Because only whiners make threads on the internet...
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Offline NWR_pap64

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RE: Official Samus Discussion
« Reply #80 on: August 12, 2007, 10:42:30 AM »
Oh Samus, your little outfits are the cause of many a whining!

Will it ever end?

This thread proves that there is a clash between the fans' view on Samus and the creators' view on Samus.
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Offline Sir_Stabbalot

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RE:Official Samus Discussion
« Reply #81 on: August 12, 2007, 10:58:10 AM »
Quote

Originally posted by: pap64
Oh Samus, your little outfits are the cause of many a whining!

Will it ever end?

This thread proves that there is a clash between the fans' view on Samus and the creators' view on Samus.


Time to see if supply and demand works.
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Offline Ceric

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RE:Official Samus Discussion
« Reply #82 on: August 12, 2007, 11:46:39 AM »
 My Children. Stop fighting...

Anyways, from the pictures that I've seen in this thread I have to agree with everyone who says MP1 Samus is better than all the ones afterwards.  I still think she needs to be less human looking.
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Offline Sir_Stabbalot

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RE:Official Samus Discussion
« Reply #83 on: August 12, 2007, 12:04:33 PM »
Quote

Originally posted by: Ceric
My Children. Stop fighting...

Anyways, from the pictures that I've seen in this thread I have to agree with everyone who says MP1 Samus is better than all the ones afterwards.  I still think she needs to be less human looking.


That's the direction they need to be taking her. Sexualizing her makes her more human, when she should be going the other way. There's a lot they could do with that path.
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Offline anubis6789

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RE: Official Samus Discussion
« Reply #84 on: August 12, 2007, 12:35:20 PM »
I for one like the look of ZS Samus in SSB and ZM, but she looked horrible in MP2 (which I can say with a clear conscience seeing as how i am about the only one here who has beat it), not because she was too "sexy" but because the style used was too "anime" and did not fit within the context of the rest of MP2, or the Prime series as a whole, and in my opinion they should have used they style that Samus' face was done in for MP2.

I find it incredibly hard to believe that people are actually comparing ZSS to the girls from DOA. Even if they changed her character design for the sole purpose (which I am not saying was the reason for the ZS design) of injecting some sort of sexuality into the Metroid series they did not go anywhere near the level of games like DOA, and a lot may argue they went in the direct opposite direction.

Another thing is a lot of you seem to equate being pretty or sexy to being weak, which simply is not true. For example, I once met a female Russian Olympic Gymnast who was built, in the since of muscle tone and fatty tissue (which includes the breast, which I have a feeling is at the heart of the issue, since if you have breast you are not athletic and you must be a whore, or at least that is how most people think in my observation), almost exactly how I would say that ZSS is, given a comparison to a stylized hand drawn character who is supposed to be six foot two and almost 200 lbs and a real life person who was probably a little over five foot and weighed probably 130 - 140 lbs. If you ask me a gymnast's body would be more conducive to Samus' way of life then say a body builders, considering all the jumping she does and the lack of real heavy lifting. Regardless of all that, maybe the Chozo blood effects her metabolism in such a way that  it causes her to look like that.  
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Offline stevey

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RE: Official Samus Discussion
« Reply #85 on: August 12, 2007, 12:37:14 PM »
Quote

The MP1 look is universally loved and the ZM look unversally hated (except for Bill of course). Its just absurd how Nintendo pretends to deny this.


I'm with bill (oh god I'm slowly becoming bill =O), MP1 Samus did look realistic (it looks just like a real person 360 eat your heart out) but it really bland with no personalty while the brawl model look more toony than realistic but she actually has an personalty to her instead.

Quote

Her face is totally changed, and she has a completely different hair style.


Her hair the same just a few inch longer all around

Quote

Frankly, it makes me glad I didn't get around to beating the last boss...


New law of the internet: if you haven't beaten Metroid Prime games or bitch about backtracking you are forbidden to talk about metroid or call yourself a metroid fanboy

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She looks terrible.


Her face is vomit MP2 I give you that, but brawl model is perfect.  
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Offline Ceric

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RE: Official Samus Discussion
« Reply #86 on: August 12, 2007, 01:32:04 PM »
Personally I don't mind the body but after actually seeing how they did her head in Prime 1, I much prefer that way.  I think she should look a little more realistic then the other Nintendo characters because her game is more serious and realistic then the other icons.
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Offline anubis6789

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RE:Official Samus Discussion
« Reply #87 on: August 12, 2007, 01:45:27 PM »
Quote

Originally posted by: Ceric
Personally I don't mind the body but after actually seeing how they did her head in Prime 1, I much prefer that way.  I think she should look a little more realistic then the other Nintendo characters because her game is more serious and realistic then the other icons.


I guess a game where someone can be infused with an alien species' blood and not have their body immediately reject it, or a game where one could fight a dragon that has the ability to fly in the vacuum of space, or a game where a powerful galactic civilization would send a single person on a mission that has already killed two groups of trained soldiers could be called realistic.
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Offline Shecky

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RE:Official Samus Discussion
« Reply #88 on: August 12, 2007, 02:09:09 PM »
Really, the "plastic" and uniform hair is the big "WHY?" for me.  I mean even Bowser has better hair (or Zelda, Link, Pit).

The other characters have "highlights" in the hair so that it doesn't look like one glob of solid color.  Why not ZSS?

Edit: I'll also note that those development room sketches look nothing like the final product in MP2.  I would have tolerated something that actually looked like that sketch.

Offline Dirk Temporo

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RE: Official Samus Discussion
« Reply #89 on: August 12, 2007, 02:14:34 PM »
This thread honestly makes me want to die. Could you people possibly find anything more inane to complain about "Oh noes, I don't like the way they're portraying a character who never had a uniform appearance to begin with."

Cry moar.
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Offline Kairon

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RE:Official Samus Discussion
« Reply #90 on: August 12, 2007, 02:25:11 PM »
Nintendo fans have finally joined the rest of popular culture in obsessing so much over a single woman's body.
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Offline nickmitch

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RE: Official Samus Discussion
« Reply #91 on: August 12, 2007, 02:38:05 PM »
This thread should be locked for being stupid.
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Offline Kairon

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RE:Official Samus Discussion
« Reply #92 on: August 12, 2007, 03:04:31 PM »
Quote

Originally posted by: Kairon
Nintendo fans have finally joined the rest of popular culture in obsessing so much over a single woman's body.


The ironic thing is that YOU STARTED IT!
Carmine Red, Associate Editor

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Offline Sir_Stabbalot

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RE:Official Samus Discussion
« Reply #93 on: August 12, 2007, 03:17:45 PM »
Quote

Originally posted by: anubis6789
I for one like the look of ZS Samus in SSB and ZM, but she looked horrible in MP2 (which I can say with a clear conscience seeing as how i am about the only one here who has beat it), not because she was too "sexy" but because the style used was too "anime" and did not fit within the context of the rest of MP2, or the Prime series as a whole, and in my opinion they should have used they style that Samus' face was done in for MP2.


That would explain the hair.

Quote

I find it incredibly hard to believe that people are actually comparing ZSS to the girls from DOA. Even if they changed her character design for the sole purpose (which I am not saying was the reason for the ZS design) of injecting some sort of sexuality into the Metroid series they did not go anywhere near the level of games like DOA, and a lot may argue they went in the direct opposite direction.


I do find that she's being led a bit in that direction. Now, the comparison isn't really warranted yet, but it's a possibility.

Quote

Another thing is a lot of you seem to equate being pretty or sexy to being weak, which simply is not true. For example, I once met a female Russian Olympic Gymnast who was built, in the since of muscle tone and fatty tissue (which includes the breast, which I have a feeling is at the heart of the issue, since if you have breast you are not athletic and you must be a whore, or at least that is how most people think in my observation), almost exactly how I would say that ZSS is, given a comparison to a stylized hand drawn character who is supposed to be six foot two and almost 200 lbs and a real life person who was probably a little over five foot and weighed probably 130 - 140 lbs. If you ask me a gymnast's body would be more conducive to Samus' way of life then say a body builders, considering all the jumping she does and the lack of real heavy lifting. Regardless of all that, maybe the Chozo blood effects her metabolism in such a way that  it causes her to look like that.


Apparently you took my "lol bewbs" comment out of context. The complaints I have about Samus' frame are mostly that she just seemed too skinny and her shoulders should be broader.  You do raise a good point about her being more gymnastic, but she's still labeled a warrior, and chances are she would do some wight training at least.

Your mentioning of her height though counters your entire argument, however. If she's meant to be 6'3''and 200 pounds, why doesn't she look it?

Quote

I'm with bill (oh god I'm slowly becoming bill =O), MP1 Samus did look realistic (it looks just like a real person 360 eat your heart out) but it really bland with no personalty while the brawl model look more toony than realistic but she actually has an personalty to her instead.


I don't know about you, but as far as personality goes, the MP2 model looked like they tried and failed to add personality to her. But that's just me.

Quote

Her hair the same just a few inch longer all around


And wider, and that horrible color.

Quote

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HEY! I LOVED the Prime games! I beat MP1 and the reason I didn't beat MP2 was because upon getting the Light Suit I got too distracted exploring places I had missed. I LOVE exploring.

Quote

Her face is vomit MP2 I give you that, but brawl model is perfect.


Yeah, I must admit the model is no longer painful to look at.

Quote

Originally posted by: Ceric
Personally I don't mind the body but after actually seeing how they did her head in Prime 1, I much prefer that way.  I think she should look a little more realistic then the other Nintendo characters because her game is more serious and realistic then the other icons.


Agreed.

Quote

I guess a game where someone can be infused with an alien species' blood and not have their body immediately reject it, or a game where one could fight a dragon that has the ability to fly in the vacuum of space, or a game where a powerful galactic civilization would send a single person on a mission that has already killed two groups of trained soldiers could be called realistic.


Compared to a game where you play as a fat Italian plumber fighting giant turtles and walking mushrooms to save a princess, yes it is realistic. :P

Quote

Originally posted by: Shecky
Really, the "plastic" and uniform hair is the big "WHY?" for me.  I mean even Bowser has better hair (or Zelda, Link, Pit).

The other characters have "highlights" in the hair so that it doesn't look like one glob of solid color.  Why not ZSS?


Exactly! I've NEVER seen anyone with hair that yellow.

Quote

Originally posted by: Dirk Temporo
Cry moar.


If you insist

Quote

Originally posted by: Kairon
Nintendo fans have finally joined the rest of popular culture in obsessing so much over a single woman's body.


Well, that's one way to look at it.

Quote

Originally posted by: TVman
This thread should be locked for being stupid.


And your point is...?  
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Offline nickmitch

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RE:Official Samus Discussion
« Reply #94 on: August 12, 2007, 04:36:52 PM »
Quote

Originally posted by: Sir_Stabbalot


Quote

Originally posted by: TVman
This thread should be locked for being stupid.


And your point is...?


Actually, that was my point.
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Offline Sir_Stabbalot

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RE:Official Samus Discussion
« Reply #95 on: August 12, 2007, 04:38:35 PM »
Quote

Originally posted by: TVman
Quote

Originally posted by: Sir_Stabbalot


Quote

Originally posted by: TVman
This thread should be locked for being stupid.


And your point is...?


Actually, that was my point.


I see. And why...?
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Offline anubis6789

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RE:Official Samus Discussion
« Reply #96 on: August 12, 2007, 05:31:09 PM »
Quote

Originally posted by: Sir_Stabbalot
Quote

Originally posted by: anubis6789
I for one like the look of ZS Samus in SSB and ZM, but she looked horrible in MP2 (which I can say with a clear conscience seeing as how i am about the only one here who has beat it), not because she was too "sexy" but because the style used was too "anime" and did not fit within the context of the rest of MP2, or the Prime series as a whole, and in my opinion they should have used they style that Samus' face was done in for MP2.


That would explain the hair.


I am sure that Nintendo forced Retro to use a model as close to the character design in Zero Mission as possible, to cross connect the two games as was done with MP1 and Fusion, resulting in a mess of styles that should probably be purged (preferably with fire) from any re-release of MP2 with a more fitting character model.

Quote

Originally posted by: Sir_Stabbalot
Quote

Originally posted by: anubis6789
I find it incredibly hard to believe that people are actually comparing ZSS to the girls from DOA. Even if they changed her character design for the sole purpose (which I am not saying was the reason for the ZS design) of injecting some sort of sexuality into the Metroid series they did not go anywhere near the level of games like DOA, and a lot may argue they went in the direct opposite direction.


I do find that she's being led a bit in that direction. Now, the comparison isn't really warranted yet, but it's a possibility.


I just do not think that Nintendo would ever lead any of their characters directly into that kind of over sexualized oblivion, and the odds are on the side that they will not, considering, to my knowledge, they never have done it before.

Quote

Originally posted by: Sir_Stabbalot
Quote

Originally posted by: anubis6789
Another thing is a lot of you seem to equate being pretty or sexy to being weak, which simply is not true. For example, I once met a female Russian Olympic Gymnast who was built, in the since of muscle tone and fatty tissue (which includes the breast, which I have a feeling is at the heart of the issue, since if you have breast you are not athletic and you must be a whore, or at least that is how most people think in my observation), almost exactly how I would say that ZSS is, given a comparison to a stylized hand drawn character who is supposed to be six foot two and almost 200 lbs and a real life person who was probably a little over five foot and weighed probably 130 - 140 lbs. If you ask me a gymnast's body would be more conducive to Samus' way of life then say a body builders, considering all the jumping she does and the lack of real heavy lifting. Regardless of all that, maybe the Chozo blood effects her metabolism in such a way that  it causes her to look like that.


Apparently you took my "lol bewbs" comment out of context. The complaints I have about Samus' frame are mostly that she just seemed too skinny and her shoulders should be broader.  You do raise a good point about her being more gymnastic, but she's still labeled a warrior, and chances are she would do some wight training at least.

Your mentioning of her height though counters your entire argument, however. If she's meant to be 6'3''and 200 pounds, why doesn't she look it?


I do not think that a warrior has to have any well defined muscle to be good at what they do, some have it, some do not, and I have been around enough people to know that well defined muscle does not equal strength. As for broad shoulders, those are determined by bone structure.

I meant the hight and weight measurements more as a proportional scale, I do not see how it counters my argument though, a tall person should weigh more than a shorter person of the same build. As to why she may seem short in SSB, I ask you why does Kirby seem so tall?

Quote

Originally posted by: Sir_Stabbalot
Quote

Originally posted by: anubis6789
I guess a game where someone can be infused with an alien species' blood and not have their body immediately reject it, or a game where one could fight a dragon that has the ability to fly in the vacuum of space, or a game where a powerful galactic civilization would send a single person on a mission that has already killed two groups of trained soldiers could be called realistic.


Compared to a game where you play as a fat Italian plumber fighting giant turtles and walking mushrooms to save a princess, yes it is realistic. :P


Well, that comment was meant as a joke, but I could counter by saying that the term realistic is subjective and that how you and I would define the term would be different. I would consider Metroid within the same realm as I  put Star Wars, i.e. Fantasy Sci-Fi, and as such it does not have to confirm to certain rules that govern reality, how else can you explain her being able to turn into a morph ball?  
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Offline nickmitch

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RE:Official Samus Discussion
« Reply #97 on: August 12, 2007, 05:45:19 PM »
Quote

Originally posted by: Sir_Stabbalot
Quote

Originally posted by: TVman
Quote

Originally posted by: Sir_Stabbalot


Quote

Originally posted by: TVman
This thread should be locked for being stupid.


And your point is...?


Actually, that was my point.


I see. And why...?


Why what? (I apologize for answering your question with another question.)
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Offline Sir_Stabbalot

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RE:Official Samus Discussion
« Reply #98 on: August 12, 2007, 05:49:13 PM »
Quote

Originally posted by: anubis6789
I am sure that Nintendo forced Retro to use a model as close to the character design in Zero Mission as possible, to cross connect the two games as was done with MP1 and Fusion, resulting in a mess of styles that should probably be purged (preferably with fire) from any re-release of MP2 with a more fitting character model.


That's a good explanation. And I agree, fire is the universal handyman.

Quote

Originally posted by: Sir_Stabbalot
I just do not think that Nintendo would ever lead any of their characters directly into that kind of over sexualized oblivion, and the odds are on the side that they will not, considering, to my knowledge, they never have done it before.


Good rebuttal. Eased my fears a good bit, but I still don't like the Zero Suit...

Quote

Originally posted by: anubis6789
I do not think that a warrior has to have any well defined muscle to be good at what they do, some have it, some do not, and I have been around enough people to know that well defined muscle does not equal strength. As for broad shoulders, those are determined by bone structure.


Well, someone shoulder's do look broader if they have been working out.

Quote

I meant the hight and weight measurements more as a proportional scale, I do not see how it counters my argument though, a tall person should weigh more than a shorter person of the same build. As to why she may seem short in SSB, I ask you why does Kirby seem so tall?


Alright, bear with me here. I did some "maths" (the formulas of which are probably broken) to come to my conclusion. I took Samus' weight (200) divided by her height (did some bad fraction-rounding, decided on 6.2) and got ~32 as an answer. I did the same with your estimations of the gymnast (140/5=~28), so I figured Samus must have more muscle mass.

Feel free to shoot my poor reasoning down. I'll be the first to admit it won't hold water.

Quote

Originally posted by: anubis6789
Well, that comment was meant as a joke, but I could counter by saying that the term realistic is subjective and that how you and I would define the term would be different. I would consider Metroid within the same realm as I  put Star Wars, i.e. Fantasy Sci-Fi, and as such it does not have to confirm to certain rules that govern reality, how else can you explain her being able to turn into a morph ball?


Actually, my response was also a joke, but the smilie didn't come through. Metroid is pretty far from hard sci-fi.

EDIT:

Quote

Originally posted by: TVman
Quote

Originally posted by: Sir_Stabbalot
Quote

Originally posted by: TVman
Quote

Originally posted by: Sir_Stabbalot


Quote

Originally posted by: TVman
This thread should be locked for being stupid.


And your point is...?


Actually, that was my point.


I see. And why...?


Why what? (I apologize for answering your question with another question.)


Why not?
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Offline nickmitch

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RE:Official Samus Discussion
« Reply #99 on: August 12, 2007, 05:56:36 PM »
Quote

Originally posted by: Sir_Stabbalot

Quote

Originally posted by: TVman
Quote

Originally posted by: Sir_Stabbalot
Quote

Originally posted by: TVman
Quote

Originally posted by: Sir_Stabbalot


Quote

Originally posted by: TVman
This thread should be locked for being stupid.


And your point is...?


Actually, that was my point.


I see. And why...?


Why what? (I apologize for answering your question with another question.)


Why not?


Because that's just silly.
TVman is dead. I killed him and took his posts.