Author Topic: Official SSBB SmashDate Discussion (Read 588080 times)

vudu · « **Reply #2550 on:** December 03, 2007, 08:51:05 AM »

Smash Bros without items isn't Smash Bros. It's completely unreasonable to think that items would be axed from online play. A reasonable question would be whether bots are allowed for online play.

UltimatePartyBear · « **Reply #2551 on:** December 03, 2007, 09:17:42 AM »

I feel the same way, vudu. I brought it up because I remember arguing over it in one of the Megathreads.

Smash_Brother · « **Reply #2552 on:** December 03, 2007, 10:49:54 AM »

I'm not arguing that items are good for the game. I'm saying that they DO add network overhead because it's one more facet the world state manager needs to maintain and track on up to four separate Wiis.

Remember how Mario Kart DS only gives you half of the tracks for online play? They'll sacrifice gameplay elements for latency reasons if the addition to the overhead will make the game unplayable.

The additional latency from items falling about the stage could have been the straw on the camel's back for the game (though my money would have been on four player online).

The online in a 1v1 game like Street Fighter has even been lambasted for its poor performance, and that's just two players on a single dimension with zero other interferences. Frankly, I wouldn't be surprised if turning items off makes games less laggy and more manageable.

I agree that SSB just ain't the same without items, but I'd rather play without items than play with lag. SSB is even LESS the same with lag involved.

vudu · « **Reply #2553 on:** December 03, 2007, 11:24:07 AM »

Quote
Originally posted by: Smash_Brother
Remember how Mario Kart DS only gives you half of the tracks for online play? They'll sacrifice gameplay elements for latency reasons if the addition to the overhead will make the game unplayable.

I'm not arguing against the possibility that some levels might not be available for online play. But what you're suggesting is the equivalent of playing Mario Kart online without the Lightening Bolt or Halo 3 without grenades. It's not the same thing at all.

Smash_Brother · « **Reply #2554 on:** December 03, 2007, 01:24:51 PM »

Quote
Originally posted by: vudu I'm not arguing against the possibility that some levels might not be available for online play. But what you're suggesting is the equivalent of playing Mario Kart online without the Lightening Bolt or Halo 3 without grenades. It's not the same thing at all.

These are completely different situations.

Halo 3 and MK: DS can both tolerate some latency without the gameplay being absolutely destroyed. SSB, however, just doesn't have that luxury.

We all know how important reflex and timing are to success in the game. If the online play would see some speed loss for ANY reason, then the game basically goes out the window.

I'm quite certain that millions of players will grab SSBB on launch day in order to test their skills against their online friends, but if the game can't keep up with the overhead and starts to lag, then nothing has been resolved. You're no longer fighting to see who's the best at SSBB but to see who can compensate for lag the best.

But beyond that, items are great, sure, but they're not intrinsic to the game. You can still have a competition of skill against another player without them. As much as I dislike tourney rules, sometimes I would turn off items and just duel with a skilled player (on the rare occasion that one was around).

It's not just the items themselves that could cause issues, either. Keep in mind that items bring with them a plethora of graphical effects which could potentially lag the game.

A screen with multiple legendary Pokemans firing off their specials could very likely lag a game, as could some of the particularly flashy final smashes. Nintendo seems confident that items and online won't be an issue, but this doesn't mean that it wasn't reasonable speculative a concern.

Let me just say that, having dealt with networking code and the issues it raises myself, I'm DAMN impressed at what Nintendo is doing here.

Four player online alone is a bloody miracle, and with items running is just icing on that cake. It's not unreasonable to expect they might have been out of sugar before then.

anubis6789 · « **Reply #2555 on:** December 03, 2007, 02:15:12 PM »

Quote
Originally posted by: Smash_Brother
It's not just the items themselves that could cause issues, either. Keep in mind that items bring with them a plethora of graphical effects which could potentially lag the game.

A screen with multiple legendary Pokemans firing off their specials could very likely lag a game, as could some of the particularly flashy final smashes. Nintendo seems confident that items and online won't be an issue, but this doesn't mean that it wasn't reasonable speculative a concern.

Why would graphical effects be sent over the net? I was under the assumption that the only things that should be transmitted are positional and maybe vectorial information with each terminal rendering its own on screen display based on the received positional and, as stated, possible vectorial data.

Stogi · « **Reply #2556 on:** December 03, 2007, 04:15:51 PM »

Good point.

They should send the player's maniplutions over the character over the net and not the charachter..............hell, is that even possible?

nickmitch · « **Reply #2557 on:** December 03, 2007, 05:31:53 PM »

I wouldn't be at all surprised if some items/stages weren't available for online play. It's just one of things that you have to give up for cost of certain luxuries. It's like owning a nice boat and spending time with your kids. You give up one for the other.

stevey · « **Reply #2558 on:** December 03, 2007, 06:06:23 PM »

Returning pokemon, also Nintendo supports stealing music from pokemon

Bill Aurion · « **Reply #2559 on:** December 03, 2007, 06:10:07 PM »

Mew is always late to the party so he needs to pay up!

nickmitch · « **Reply #2560 on:** December 03, 2007, 06:20:35 PM »

So, what? No love for Raiku?

Bill Aurion · « **Reply #2561 on:** December 03, 2007, 06:23:23 PM »

Apparently no love from you either since the name is Raikou... >_>

Smash_Brother · « **Reply #2562 on:** December 03, 2007, 06:26:34 PM »

Quote
Originally posted by: anubis6789 Why would graphical effects be sent over the net? I was under the assumption that the only things that should be transmitted are positional and maybe vectorial information with each terminal rendering its own on screen display based on the received positional and, as stated, possible vectorial data.

They aren't, but world state interactions on a local Wii are sharing CPU power with the network interactions.

It's the same reason you can't play some MK DS levels online: some of them are too much for the DS to handle while maintaining an online connection.

NinGurl69 *huggles · « **Reply #2563 on:** December 03, 2007, 06:55:46 PM »

This latest update is further proof they're wasting their time with web updates, as these POKERMAN 3D models are no different from what showed up in Melee, despite updated style in the recent Pokemon Wii title.

What's next? Will CAPTAIN FALCON be a direct port of his Melee version? Cuz he's so awesome to begin with? NO, HE'S BEING PORTED CUZ NINTENDO & FRIENDS ARE LAZY

FEBRUARY MY ASS

ShyGuy · « **Reply #2564 on:** December 03, 2007, 07:07:50 PM »

Low Poly Pokemans DOES NOT equal next gen.

GoldenPhoenix · « **Reply #2565 on:** December 03, 2007, 08:06:27 PM »

Yeah those Pokemon look like crap, I hope they put a bit more work into them.

nickmitch · « **Reply #2566 on:** December 04, 2007, 03:14:10 AM »

Looks like they spent all their time making Charizard look awesome.

nickmitch · « **Reply #2567 on:** December 04, 2007, 03:14:12 AM »

Quote
Originally posted by: Bill Aurion
Apparently no love from you either since the name is Raikou... >_>

Spelling does not equate to love. Unless you're spelling handjobs.

MysticGohan · « **Reply #2568 on:** December 04, 2007, 05:20:03 AM »

Quote
Originally posted by: TVman
Quote
Originally posted by: Bill Aurion
Apparently no love from you either since the name is Raikou... >_>

Spelling does not equate to love. Unless you're spelling handjobs.

Burned! lol, I feel Bill's gonna Retailerate...

NWR_pap64 · « **Reply #2569 on:** December 04, 2007, 07:07:08 AM »

Maybe its just me but even if the update itself is crap-tastic it was very clever. Instead of making an update about a Pokemon we knew was going to be in the game they made an update about the old Pokemon. They killed many birds with one stone.

...Did I mention the update itself was crappy?

Smash_Brother · « **Reply #2570 on:** December 04, 2007, 08:28:45 AM »

Sure was.

I got 2 popcorn balls off of it!

nickmitch · « **Reply #2571 on:** December 04, 2007, 03:51:58 PM »

Quote
Originally posted by: MysticGohan
Quote
Originally posted by: TVman
Quote
Originally posted by: Bill Aurion
Apparently no love from you either since the name is Raikou... >_>

Spelling does not equate to love. Unless you're spelling handjobs.

Burned! lol, I feel Bill's gonna Retailerate...

Yikes, I hope not. *cowers*

nickmitch · « **Reply #2572 on:** December 04, 2007, 06:29:34 PM »

So, there's more stuff we already know coupled with slightly new information. At least the song is pretty nice.

Mikintosh · « **Reply #2573 on:** December 04, 2007, 09:29:29 PM »

i thought the X song was pretty sweet. i'd be thinking of possible music candidates, but i've always been a franchise man myself.

Stogi · « **Reply #2574 on:** December 05, 2007, 03:11:35 AM »

OOOOOOOHHHHH I like the strategy behind the final smash! It gives more of a worthy presence in the Smash series.

Also, the music is pretty tight though I don't know about "rad*."

*who uses the word rad anymore?! hehe

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Author Topic: Official SSBB SmashDate Discussion (Read 588080 times)