Topic: Was anyone else disappointed by E3 this year?

[Mashiro]

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Everyday it's starting to seem like the answer to that is non-gamers. And what if that mentality spreads to our beloved franchises?

Oh man you're right. . .

could you just imagine what would happen if oh, just for argument sake, they made a Zelda game that appealed to non-gamers AND gamers!?

That would be so horrible! Our poor beloved franchises!!!!!

Oh wait that's right they did that already and so far people are saying it's one of the best Zeldas ever created.

People fear change WAY too much. Do you honestly think Nintendo is going to sh!t on their franchises? If LoZ:PH proves anything it's that games can appeal to both a new audience and still be a great game that us older more seasoned gamers can enjoy.

[GoldenPhoenix]

You know, I HATE gaming today, it should be hardcore and should be able to hit a square back and forth with my rectangles. How DARE Atari/Nintendo/Sony/MS/Sega change gaming, they are SOOOO casual focused.

[Nick DiMola]

I would have to say this is one of the dumbest arguments I have ever read. Not a single person in this forum has any idea what Nintendo is up to behind the scenes.

Pittboi, Ian, simply because nothing has been shown doesn't mean things aren't happening. Why don't we all just sit back and relax and see what happens. You can jump all over Nintendo if they lose their focus too much a year from now, but as of right now I see nothing worth getting worked up over. E3 was toned down greatly and NOONE announced anything huge. E3 is no longer an indicator of the future, it is just a small opportunity to showcase a subsection of your games that are going to be available in the near future.

[Mashiro]

and on that note thread over.

Mr. Jack Wins. Flawless victory =D

[Adrock]

Nintendo should change Zelda to keep it fresh, not to appeal to non-gamers. In their attempt to widen the audience of their existing franchises, Nintendo has made series like Zelda, for example, way too easy. I guess I just want Nintendo to create new franchises whether they be for gamers, non-gamers, or both. I know I'll probably get slack for this, but I don't think Nintendo should "compromise" (for lack of a better term) their old franchises by trying to attract non-gamers. Series like Zelda appeal to a certain audience and they should be made specifically with that audience in mind.

Anyway, as for E3, Super Mario Galaxy really wowed me. I'm looking forward to it much more after E3. So, no, I wasn't disappointed at all. In fact, I just reserved both Mario Kart Wii and Wii Fit yesterday. I'm happy with what was shown. Nintendo can't blow people away every year, but they can still have a very good showing.

[GoldenPhoenix]

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Originally posted by: Adrock
Nintendo should change Zelda to keep it fresh, not to appeal to non-gamers. In their attempt to widen the audience of their existing franchises, Nintendo has made series like Zelda, for example, way too easy. I guess I just want Nintendo to create new franchises whether they be for gamers, non-gamers, or both. I know I'll probably get slack for this, but I don't think Nintendo should "compromise" (for lack of a better term) their old franchises by trying to attract non-gamers. Series like Zelda appeal to a certain audience and they should be made specifically with that audience in mind.

Well I think Zelda being too easy is up for debate, because I found TP to be just as challenging as OOT. With that said you are right, they need to change Zelda (Like they have done with Mario) at least enough to where it will widen its appeal and get out of "Been there done that" territory.

[Bill Aurion]

"Series like Zelda appeal to a certain audience and they should be made specifically with that audience in mind."

I'm sorry, but after you play Phantom Hourglass you'll change your tune...  

[Mashiro]

But see Adrock, as Miyamoto put it during a post E3 pree conference interview, Nintendos goal is to make games that not only appeal to the new and old audience but to make games that are fun for BOTH.

And I think LoZ:PH is doing just that from the reports I've been hearing about the game. It was in their effort to change the series gameplay wise that they not only made it fun and challenging for veterans but accessible to a new group of gamers.

It's very smart.

I get this vibe from a lot of the nay-sayers "if THIS game appeals to THIS audience its THIS. and THIS is bad we should be having THAT not THIS."  Why can't there be a MIDDLE area (which is just what Miyamoto was talking about) where *Gasp* gamers of old and gamers of new can enjoy the same games?  

[GoldenPhoenix]

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Originally posted by: Bill Aurion
"Series like Zelda appeal to a certain audience and they should be made specifically with that audience in mind."

I'm sorry, but you after you play Phantom Hourglass you'll change your tune...

Stop teasing me with Zelda: TP.

[Requiem]

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Originally posted by: Mr. Jack
I would have to say this is one of the dumbest arguments I have ever read. Not a single person in this forum has any idea what Nintendo is up to behind the scenes.

Pittboi, Ian, simply because nothing has been shown doesn't mean things aren't happening. Why don't we all just sit back and relax and see what happens. You can jump all over Nintendo if they lose their focus too much a year from now, but as of right now I see nothing worth getting worked up over. E3 was toned down greatly and NOONE announced anything huge. E3 is no longer an indicator of the future, it is just a small opportunity to showcase a subsection of your games that are going to be available in the near future.

You actually read it?

*Applauds*  

[Nick DiMola]

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Originally posted by: Mashiro
I get this vibe from a lot of the nay-sayers "if THIS game appeals to THIS audience its THIS. and THIS is bad we should be having THAT not THIS."  Why can't there be a MIDDLE area (which is just what Miyamoto was talking about) where *Gasp* gamers of old and gamers of new can enjoy the same games?

Miyamoto is an idiot. What has he done in gaming anyway? Seriously, we need to leave all the sequels the same that way we appease the self-proclaimed "hardcore" gamers who don't want so many sequels anyway.

Confused yet?
Good you should be.

/sarcasm

[BigJim]

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Ian a better way of putting your "argument" would be "I'm just not happy with Nintendo on a personal level. I don't enjoy their games anymore".

Everybody's comments here are opinion. There's no reason why people that disagree with yours should qualify it with such qualifiers as "me personally, IMO" etc.

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Nintendo isn't changing their audience and has done nothing to show you that they are.

WHERE have you been?

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I just don't see the problem.

And I repeat that the technical availability of those types of games doesn't mean they are going to be satisfied. Not every hardcore game is made for every hardcore gamer. Nintendo is not big enough to satisfy every audience in the face of questionable and unknown 3rd party support. Therefore, the issue continues like it or not, just as it existed for half of the GameCube's life.

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It's your own PERSONAL tastes that are the issue at hand, not the company. The company in the majority of the peoples eyes aren't doing wrong because we enjoy what has come and what is coming our way.

Of course, it's the fault of the people with dissenting opinions. Boy I'm glad that beacon of truth was uncovered.

Again with the desire to qualify what they say so you feel less threatened by counter opinion. You've expressed plenty of your personal taste here and nobody's expecting you qualify it. Expecting it of others is ridiculous.  

[Mashiro]

*A wild MR.JACK APPEARS!*
*Wild MR.JACK uses Confusion on poster MASHIRO!*

*MASHIRO is confused!
. . .
it hurt itself in its confusion.*

Well played Mr. Jack. Well played. . . btw I love that Icon and your title lol.

[Adrock]

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But see Adrock, as Miyamoto put it during a post E3 pree conference interview, Nintendos goal is to make games that not only appeal to the new and old audience but to make games that are fun for BOTH.

Yes, but do they have to use Zelda? I'm not saying that they can't make existing franchises that appeal to both new and old audiences. I never disputed that Phantom Hourglass did not do just that (though I never played it). Rather, I ask why they don't just create a completely original franchise to accomplish that goal. Doesn't everyone win?

[Mashiro]

Yeah but if LoZ:PH truly IS as great as everyone says it is (and I believe them it looks like great fun) then I am happy they used Zelda to accomplish this.

I don't want to be playing the same freaking game over and over again with no changes. It gets boring. Even the OoT formula has worn pretty thin. It doesn't make it bad but a change wouldn't be bad either if done right.

I'm not saying don't try it with new IPs but don't leave out the current franchises.

If the game formulas never changed the game world would be a boring place.  

[Pittbboi]

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I get this vibe from a lot of the nay-sayers "if THIS game appeals to THIS audience its THIS. and THIS is bad we should be having THAT not THIS." Why can't there be a MIDDLE area (which is just what Miyamoto was talking about) where *Gasp* gamers of old and gamers of new can enjoy the same games?

And what's the answer to this? Wii Fit?

DDR is a game that gamers and non-gamers can enjoy. Heck, even Wii Sports is a game non-gamers and gamers can both enjoy. I find it hard to even qualify Wii Fit as a game.

But, at the same time, it's not purely about qualifying a game as THIS or THAT, it's the general concern that Nintendo is going to abandon a more in-depth gaming experience for a more watered down experience in this effort to appeal to non-gamers. I'm sorry, but one thing Nintendo hasn't been able to do for a while is balance. You get something great from Nintendo but it's almost ALWAYS at the sacrifice of something else. And usually in the case of games making something non-gamer "Accessible" usually means shedding features that would make the game more appealing to a gamer crowd.

Non-gamers and gamers will never like all of the same games, and why should you even expect them to? I'd rather have "gamer games" that leave non-gamers uninterested and "non-gamers" that leave gamers uninterested. THAT'S the type of balance Nintendo needs to go for in the future--not some lukewarm "middle ground" where every game is geared to be playable by everyone, but ultimately leaves both group unsatisfied (Well, not so much non-gamers, most of which don't really know what they want).

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Pittboi, Ian, simply because nothing has been shown doesn't mean things aren't happening. Why don't we all just sit back and relax and see what happens. You can jump all over Nintendo if they lose their focus too much a year from now, but as of right now I see nothing worth getting worked up over. E3 was toned down greatly and NOONE announced anything huge. E3 is no longer an indicator of the future, it is just a small opportunity to showcase a subsection of your games that are going to be available in the near future.

Oh yes, the "wait and see" argument. I was waiting for this one. This is almost exactly what we were all expected to do after Christmas when nothing new was announced. Wait for the GDC. Then nothing new came at the GDC. Wait for E3. Then nothing comes at E3 and you expect us to wait another YEAR before we have the right to complain and express concern? Next thing you know it'll be just like the 'Cube where we'll be told to "wait and see" right up to the next console is announced, where the argument will be changed to "Geez! Wait for Wii2! GAWD!!!1 Everything will be different then!"

[Nick DiMola]

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Originally posted by: Pittbboi
Oh yes, the "wait and see" argument. I was waiting for this one. This is almost exactly what we were all expected to do after Christmas when nothing new was announced. Wait for the GDC. Then nothing new came at the GDC. Wait for E3. Then nothing comes at E3 and you expect us to wait another YEAR before we have the right to complain and express concern? Next thing you know it'll be just like the 'Cube where we'll be told to "wait and see" right up to the next console is announced, where the argument will be changed to "Geez! Wait for Wii2! GAWD!!!1 Everything will be different then!"

No offense but I enjoyed the Cube quite a bit. Look I can understand that you are frustrated, but you need to have patience. You are conjuring up arguments and you don't even know what's coming. I really don't know what you want people to say to you.

This just in:
THE WORLD IS DOOMED, NINTENDO IS GOING TO SUCK FOREVER, ALL OF PITTBOI'S FEARS ARE CONFIRMED WII = FAIL. NON-GAMERS ARE THE FUTURE AND THE COMPANY THAT ONCE LOVED YOU NOW HATES YOU.

Seriously, you need to have patience, speculate all you like, but don't act like it is fact that Nintendo is abandoning you, because you have no idea.

[Mashiro]

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Originally posted by: BigJim

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Ian a better way of putting your "argument" would be "I'm just not happy with Nintendo on a personal level. I don't enjoy their games anymore".

Everybody's comments here are opinion. There's no reason why people that disagree with yours should qualify it with such qualifiers as "me personally, IMO" etc.

Response: There's a difference between facts and opinions. As it stands to say Nintendo is really just pushing away it's core gamer audience and we will be left out in the cold is an OPINION. Where AS OF NOW Nintendo has done nothing to validate this argument. The FACTS which GP, myself and others list are the current line up of games that we know are coming and are meant for gamers. No one knows what 2008 will hold for Wii outside of Wii Fit and Mario Kart but between Shigeru Miyamoto stating that he still enjoys making gamer games (not non-games) and Nintendo's philosophy that games don't have to be divided between non-games and gamer games (see: they can be games enjoyed by ALL such as LoZ:PH) it is safe to assume Nintendo isn't forgetting it's roots.

Nintendo hasn't come out and showcased 60 non-game titles and then just showed Mario Kart. Right now 2008 is tied for 2 in the US, we have Wii Fit and Mario Kart. So as it stands it's split 50-50. One gamer game and one non-game.

So factually speaking, there is NO HARD EVIDENCE that Nintendo is moving away from its core market. Is it expanding? Yes. Is it taking care of it's more seasoned gamers as well at the moment? Yes. So to say EVERYTHING here is based on opinion I would say that is false.

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Nintendo isn't changing their audience and has done nothing to show you that they are.

WHERE have you been?

Response: Nintendo is ADDING to their audience. They are BUILDING upon what they have. They are EXPANDING their market. Their audience has a wider range now yes but they didn't shift away from one to the other.

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I just don't see the problem.

And I repeat that the technical availability of those types of games doesn't mean they are going to be satisfied. Not every hardcore game is made for every hardcore gamer. Nintendo is not big enough to satisfy every audience in the face of questionable and unknown 3rd party support. Therefore, the issue continues like it or not, just as it existed for half of the GameCube's life.

Response: We'll have to wait and see what happens.

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It's your own PERSONAL tastes that are the issue at hand, not the company. The company in the majority of the peoples eyes aren't doing wrong because we enjoy what has come and what is coming our way.

Of course, it's the fault of the people with dissenting opinions. Boy I'm glad that beacon of truth was uncovered.

Again with the desire to qualify what they say so you feel less threatened by counter opinion. You've expressed plenty of your personal taste here and nobody's expecting you qualify it. Expecting it of others is ridiculous.

Response: I don't feel threatened by counter opinion, I just can't stand it when people make claims without ANY factual evidence to back it up. As it stands Nintendo is catering to both markets and with games like LoZ:PH bridging the gap between both and making games that are enjoyed by gamers and non-gamers alike while still having the game consider a game and not non-game. (God I hate all these freaking labels).

So as it stands, Nintendo "The sky is falling all of our old ways our doomed" scenario is OPINION and "Nintendo so far is showing us a good mix of games catering to both audiences" is FACT.

2008 is a blank slate and just because Nintendo didn't show much for 2008 at E3 it doesn't mean they don't the games that will make us all happy in 08 in the pipeline.

Hell so what if MS said "We're showing games that are playable in 2007", they still showed NOTHING for 2008 outside of RE5. Does that mean "Zomg MS isn't going to have games come to 360 anymore ZOMG!!!!". No of course it doesn't, but that's what the Nintendo worriers seem to be thinking when it comes to Nintendo not showing all there cards at the first of THREE gaming conventions in the upcoming months.

[Mashiro]

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Originally posted by: Mr. Jack

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Originally posted by: Pittbboi
Oh yes, the "wait and see" argument. I was waiting for this one. This is almost exactly what we were all expected to do after Christmas when nothing new was announced. Wait for the GDC. Then nothing new came at the GDC. Wait for E3. Then nothing comes at E3 and you expect us to wait another YEAR before we have the right to complain and express concern? Next thing you know it'll be just like the 'Cube where we'll be told to "wait and see" right up to the next console is announced, where the argument will be changed to "Geez! Wait for Wii2! GAWD!!!1 Everything will be different then!"

No offense but I enjoyed the Cube quite a bit. Look I can understand that you are frustrated, but you need to have patience. You are conjuring up arguments and you don't even know what's coming. I really don't know what you want people to say to you.

This just in:
THE WORLD IS DOOMED, NINTENDO IS GOING TO SUCK FOREVER, ALL OF PITTBOI'S FEARS ARE CONFIRMED WII = FAIL. NON-GAMERS ARE THE FUTURE AND THE COMPANY THAT ONCE LOVED YOU NOW HATES YOU.

Seriously, you need to have patience, speculate all you like, but don't act like it is fact that Nintendo is abandoning you, because you have no idea.

QUOTED FOR TRUTH.

[Pittbboi]

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Seriously, you need to have patience, speculate all you like, but don't act like it is fact that Nintendo is abandoning you, because you have no idea.

And I haven't done that all. All I have given is my opinion, which for the purposes of THIS thread are focused on Nintendo's E3 presentation and whether or not I was disappointed, which I was and I gave reasons why. Nintendo may very well have a lot of stuff under wraps planned for gamers for the next year. But again, this E3 (and everything leading up this E3 actually) gave NO indication of that. Can you prove, using THIS E3, that fears that Nintendo MAY abandon the core gamer are completely unjustified? Go on.

A lot of this backlash is coming purely because some people don't like to hear ANYTHING bad about Nintendo.  

[Mashiro]

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Nintendo may very well have a lot of stuff under wraps planned for gamers for the next year. But again, this E3 (and everything leading up this E3 actually) gave NO indication of that. Can you prove, using THIS E3, that fears that Nintendo MAY abandon the core gamer are completely unjustified? Go on.

Did Microsoft prove to it's gamers that they had ANY games to look forward to post 2007?

Go on.

See just because the companies didn't show much at E3 that we DIDN'T already know about doesn't mean that games AREN'T in the works.

Nintendo has only shown 2 games for Wii post 2008 for NA. Mario Kart and Wii Fit. So it's 50-50.

[couchmonkey]

This just in: Gran Turismo, Final Fantasy XIII and MGS IV prove htat Sony is the only company that cares about the future of gaming!

[GoldenPhoenix]

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Originally posted by: Pittbboi

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Seriously, you need to have patience, speculate all you like, but don't act like it is fact that Nintendo is abandoning you, because you have no idea.

And I haven't done that all. All I have given is my opinion, which for the purposes of THIS thread are focused on Nintendo's E3 presentation and whether or not I was disappointed, which I was and I gave reasons why. Nintendo may very well have a lot of stuff under wraps planned for gamers for the next year. But again, this E3 (and everything leading up this E3 actually) gave NO indication of that. Can you prove, using THIS E3, that fears that Nintendo MAY abandon the core gamer are completely unjustified? Go on.

A lot of this backlash is coming purely because some people don't like to hear ANYTHING bad about Nintendo.

Proof: Mario Galaxy, Metroid Prime 3, Batallion Wars II, Smash Brother Brawl, all out this year.  Oh yeah, there is also this little handheld, you may have heard of it, Nintendo DS, that has a similar "Blue ocean" strategy as the Wii.

[Kairon]

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Originally posted by: couchmonkey
This just in: Gran Turismo, Final Fantasy XIII and MGS IV prove htat Sony is the only company that cares about the future of gaming!

Yeah, but we already KNEW about those games before the conference, so OBVIOUSLY they don't count!

*reads*

OMG, this thread has really blown up!

[Nick DiMola]

I'm stealing GP's response as my proof. Plus, in no way am I saying that Nintendo COULDN'T abandon regular gamers and focus on the new gaming crowd, I'm just saying that as of right now I HAVE NO IDEA. Trust me Nintendo has made plenty of decisions I'm not happy about, but life is too short to always have the negative outlook on things. I'll give Nintendo the benefit of the doubt as you should to, being a Nintendo fan and all (Just assuming since you are posting on these forums).