Topic: Sega proves once again why they are the dumbest company in the universe.

[Luigi Dude]

Sega expects PS3 to win this Gen


I'm wondering if Sega's seen the recent NPD data

Wii - 338,278
360 - 154,932
PS3 - 81,604

Or how about last weeks Media Create Hardware sales

Wii - 64,529
PS3 -  8,776

You know what, I get the feeling that all there is inside Sega headquarters is a giant crater, and all the employees do each day is throw as much money as they can into it.  That's why Sega is literally, a giant money pit.

[Chozo Ghost]

I hope I don't offend any Sega fans who may read this, but I think this way of thinking perfectly illustrates why Sega is no longer in the console business and why their software business is deteriorating... Did their graphically superior Saturn ever pull ahead of the PS1? Did their graphically superior Gamegear ever pull ahead of the spinach screened Gameboy? Why does Sega still think graphics are king when that way of thinking cost them their hardware business?

Betting money on a dying horse is not the wisest thing for Sega to do in its current situation.

[Spak-Spang]

I think Sega is bring up a valid concern that Nintendo should have...however they are assuming an outcome which is not definite.

In 2008 the Xbox 360 and PS3 games will look light years better than Wii games.  There is definitely some growth to be had within the Wii's graphics, but starting next year it just won't be able to compete.

Sega is assuming that when this happens controller innovation will be worn out fad, and gamers will want to play games at are graphically superior.  It also assumes that the Wii control system is pretty weak and after awhile gamers will get bored of controls games basically doing the same thing for each game, AND that motion is imprecise.

I think what Sega is forgetting is that graphics in games last generation were almost never an eye sore.  So this generation (even with the Wii) people may see better graphics, but it won't mean they will flock to that system alone, because all games look pretty now.

So now we are literally at a time when actual games and the experience of the system are selling the hardware.  And so far Nintendo Wii's is an experience unlike any other system and as such is gaining support.  And motion controls although not as precise are still more FUN than traditional methods of control.

I predict the Wii getting first place in Japan and other markets around the world, but the Xbox 360 to become first place world wide this generation.  

[Chozo Ghost]

Yes, people will probably get tired of the Wii-remote after a while, but Nintendo has designed it so that add-ons can be easily plugged into it and make game play fresh and different. Right now you have nunchuck extension, and that makes it well suited traditional gaming, but why assume that Nintendo is going to rest on their laurels with that? They could come up with a guitar extension, or make it into a gun, or God only knows....

Plus, there are some rumors I've read concerning a microphone already hidden in the Wii-mote. If that is true then there is a lot of potential for future games already present that may one day be tapped. Oh, and the DS will someday interact with the console. Will it function like a controller? I can see it being great for multiplayer offline games where you want to have your own screen and not have your opponents cheat by looking at your section of the screen.

The problem with most gaming companies is they are limited to a "graphics are the only thing that matters" mentality, but I see a lot of things on the horizon which will keep the Wii fresh and interesting even if graphics don't improve that much. But speaking of graphics, look at the games which are being designed from the ground up for the Wii compared to the ports that have been rushed to completion. I don't think the graphics gap is going to be as huge as many people think....

[Spak-Spang]

Microphone?

No.  Voice Recognition chip.  Basically once a Microphone is added, there is a chip to help the system decipher words spoken.  (Supposedly)


Now, I am not agreeing with Sega, I am just saying there is major concern.  Which is why I believe Nintendo has one year to sell as many Wiis as possible, and why Nintendo should be playing hardball with pricing and releasing all their big guns.

Well, it looks like Nintendo is doing just that this year.

[Chozo Ghost]

Yeah, voice recognition was what I meant. And actual Microphone should be trivial to add whenever the time comes, and could probably be bundled with the first game to support it.

I'd say pricing isn't something to worry about when the system has been perpetually sold out since launch. In some circular ads I don't see the system even advertised anymore, because what would be the point in advertising it when it sells out in 10 minutes anyway? Nintendo could actually increase the price by $50 and still sell like crazy. No, what they need to do is start pumping out more Wiis and getting it as many homes as quickly as possible. Games are also a concern, but I think the limited hardware supply is the biggest thing right now.

[Ian Sane]

"Did their graphically superior Saturn ever pull ahead of the PS1?"

The Saturn was the supreme 2D machine with 3D capabilities hastily shoehorned in.  I don't think anyone considered the Saturn to be graphically superior at the time.

Sega is dumb for picking the PS3.  But the PS3 isn't screwed because people don't like good graphics or that people are bored with the old way of playing games or that the remote is the future or any of that.  The PS3 is f*cked because it's just too damn expensive.  That's it.  They put a Blu-Ray player in there and that shot the price to hell.  The Playstation brand become popular because it appealed to the mainstream but Sony has stupidly priced it out of the mainstream market.  They're idiots and they f*cked themselves much like Nintendo did with the N64 and like it was back in 1996 I think the market leader screwing up is the biggest reason why the "ranking" is as it is.

If the Wii doesn't win the Xbox 360 will.  If Sony wins this gen then they're the most brilliant game console makers or all time and deserve to be the market leader forever.  I think the Wii will either be the eventually winner or all this non-gamer interest will turn out to be a fad and the Wii will just die almost overnight.  I don't see any middle ground.

[EasyCure]

Quote
Sega is assuming that when this happens controller innovation will be worn out fad, and gamers will want to play games at are graphically superior. It also assumes that the Wii control system is pretty weak and after awhile gamers will get bored of controls games basically doing the same thing for each game, AND that motion is imprecise

that line really bugs me. i hear it everytime there is something negitive to say about the wii.

is it supposed to mean that once gamers get tired of flicking our wrist we'll want to go back to button smashing? cuz im pretty tired of that after gaming since the 8bit days. you know what im sick of doing in every fighting game? down-to-forward [insert attack button here]. i hate it, it gets my thumb sore everytime because if my timing is only slightly off i have to do it over and over again to get a fireball or something to work. i'd rather flick my wrist and move my hand around and feel slightly more connected to the game then go back to mashing the same buttons over and over again. maybe in another 20 years i'll get tired of "waggle" just as i did button smashing but for right now its still pretty fresh to me.

i think sega is bitter for being driven out of the hardware race because of the ps1 and 2 and are going out and saying things like this so that Sony continues to screw up, then when they bow out and leave nintendo and microsoft, Sega will be right there to say "how does it feel?" or [insert something witty]

if thats not the case then they really are the dumbest company in the universe.

[BlackNMild2k1]

Quote
Originally posted by: Spak-Spang

I predict the Wii getting first place in Japan and other markets around the world, but the Xbox 360 to become first place world wide this generation.

Please explain to me how this line makes sense.

If the Wii is gonna get 1st place in Japan and other markets around the world, where does that leave room for the 360 to take 1st place WW?

[denjet78]

Quote
Originally posted by: EasyCure

Quote
Sega is assuming that when this happens controller innovation will be worn out fad, and gamers will want to play games at are graphically superior. It also assumes that the Wii control system is pretty weak and after awhile gamers will get bored of controls games basically doing the same thing for each game, AND that motion is imprecise

that line really bugs me. i hear it everytime there is something negitive to say about the wii.

is it supposed to mean that once gamers get tired of flicking our wrist we'll want to go back to button smashing? cuz im pretty tired of that after gaming since the 8bit days. you know what im sick of doing in every fighting game? down-to-forward [insert attack button here]. i hate it, it gets my thumb sore everytime because if my timing is only slightly off i have to do it over and over again to get a fireball or something to work. i'd rather flick my wrist and move my hand around and feel slightly more connected to the game then go back to mashing the same buttons over and over again. maybe in another 20 years i'll get tired of "waggle" just as i did button smashing but for right now its still pretty fresh to me.

i think sega is bitter for being driven out of the hardware race because of the ps1 and 2 and are going out and saying things like this so that Sony continues to screw up, then when they bow out and leave nintendo and microsoft, Sega will be right there to say "how does it feel?" or [insert something witty]

if thats not the case then they really are the dumbest company in the universe.

I know I got tired and bored of BUTTONS after playing with my NES for a couple months. I mean, geeze! How many times do I have to push that damn thing? All it does is go up and down. How boring is that?

Controllers haven't really evolved one iota since even before the NES. Look at the PS3 and 360 controllers. They're NES controllers with more buttons and analogue sticks which is basically a more precise digital pad, another button I might add.

The button interface needs to DIE! The sooner the better.

And Sega's retarded.

[Spak-Spang]

Possibly first in Japan, and maybe a few small areas in Europe but not all of Europe.

Then Xbox 360s dominate lead in America and pretty strong results in Japan and Europe will give it the lead world wide.

[denjet78]

Quote
Originally posted by: Spak-Spang
Possibly first in Japan, and maybe a few small areas in Europe but not all of Europe.

Then Xbox 360s dominate lead in America and pretty strong results in Japan and Europe will give it the lead world wide.

You mean the dominate lead that the Wii is eating up and will probably surpass long before the end of the year?

Dude... where do you get your numbers from?


EDIT: Oh wait a minute... were you being sarcastic? Strong results in Japan? Whew! That's a load off my mind! I thought you were serious there for a second. You sure pulled one over on me.

[vudu]

I'm pretty sure Other = Europe, Australia.  Spak's predicting the 360 will take first place in America.

EDIT:  This is what happens when it takes me fifteen minutes to read a thread.

[TrueNerd]

What's so wrong about that logic? Sony was on top last gen, they'll be on top this gen. That's how it works. You fanboys get too defensive over FACTS.

But seriously, I love how he asks, "How can they design products that aren't too derivative of what's already out there?"

Scott. My man. I have a biblical reference for you. Take the giant friggin plank of wood out of your own eye before complaining about the speck in your brother's eye. Peace.

[Chozo Ghost]

Can a company hold a vendetta? I'm not sure why Sega would prefer one of the console makers over another, but it couldn't be because of the past, right? I mean, companies are in it for money pure and simple, and fanboys may hate a company for life, but I imagine if any one of the three console makers pulled out of the console market they'd probably eventually produce games for their competitors systems, right? Well, except Microsoft, but that's because they would just focus on Vista games....

If Sega as a company is still angry over the past, then shouldn't they be hating Sony more than Nintendo? Nintendo and Sega's rivalry never got to the point where one had dominance over the other, however when Sony appeared on the scene it started to get bloody and eventually they drove Sega out. Plus, didn't Sega have some really great hits for the DS in Japan? I recall there being some game designed for girls that did really well...

I don't understand why third parties like Sega, Konami, Capcom, etc.  make so much money on Nintendo's hardware and then go on to badmouth them and give kudos to their competitors where their games don't sell as well. What is up with that?

[Luigi Dude]

Sega's Steinberg Clarifies Wii Comments

I'm guessing when he woke up this morning Reggie was already waiting outside.

[that Baby guy]

Chozo Ghost, I have to agree that Sega should only be angry at themselves and Sony over having to quit hardware.  With Nintendo, there was rivalry because Sega created it themselves, running an advertising campaign to try to tell customers to take one or the other, and that the Genesis was the right choice in the market.  For quite a long time, Nintendo did nothing in retaliation, and eventual had a similar campaign, but for the most part, the Sega/Nintendo rivalry was advertisement and fan-based only, IMO.  Sure the companies didn't like each other as competitors, but neither company used underhanded tactics against each other at all.

With Sega and Sony, this doesn't hold true.  The Saturn completely lost its era from its own lack of virtue, but the same does not hold true for the Dreamcast.  From before day 1 of the DC, Sony was talking big and bad about the PS2, telling consumers in interviews and specs, telling consumers and publications that the PS2 could control smart missiles, could create a Toy Story level of in-game graphics, and that generally the DreamCast was a waste of time and money, which, in truth, was not true.  As a result, people just didn't pay much attention to the DS, especially in the states, and things fell apart for Sega because of distinct Sony lies in this generation.

I have to peg these statements and platform chances to the "Publishers are idiots" category.  It seems to gather more and more supporting evidence everyday.

[Terranigma Freak]

I've said it before and I'll say it again, Sega, will be Nintendo's enemy this generation. Once again, I point to Sega being the first to drop support for the GC even though their sales were actually better back in 2002 (or was it 2001). Sega has hated Nintendo since the 90s and I just can't see them warming up to their most hated rival for so long. I sure as hell don't like to bow down to my hated rival. enemies forever, and enemies to the bitter end!

[GoldenPhoenix]

Quote
Originally posted by: TrueNerd
What's so wrong about that logic? Sony was on top last gen, they'll be on top this gen. That's how it works. You fanboys get too defensive over FACTS.

But seriously, I love how he asks, "How can they design products that aren't too derivative of what's already out there?"

Scott. My man. I have a biblical reference for you. Take the giant friggin plank of wood out of your own eye before complaining about the speck in your brother's eye. Peace.

Maybe because Sony is getting its butt kicked everywhere? That is far more logical then it being in the lead last generation especially when you look at video game HISTORY, it has proven to not be true time and time again.

[Spak-Spang]

Ok.  Clearification again.

I think the Wii is doing great, and will continue to do so.  But I do feel that the Wii sales will eventually begin to slow, and the Xbox 360 sales will pick up.  Unlike the PS3 the Xbox 360 has some great games, and if a price cut ever happens that brings the price closer to a mass market friendly number, I believe the Xbox 360 will take off again.

Specially in the US...and it will again when Halo 3 comes out.  

In the end I see Xbox 360 and the Wii splitting the other territories and countries.  Maybe Xbox 360 will be more popular in Australia and Wii in most of Europe, but the numbers will be similar.  

However, in Japan Wii will dominate first place and Xbox 360 will eventually take a solid second place position after some aggressive marketing by Microsoft to cripple a weak PS3.  With that occuring and Xbox 360 maintaining its lead in the US, which will have gotten stronger over the years...the Xbox 360 will appear to be the World Wide Market Leader, with Nintendo being a very close second...and oddly enough maybe even have more numbers sold.  (Just not to gamers, which will make the market claim the Xbox 360 as victor.)

My prediction isn't about what is going on now, but what may be happening 1-2 years from now.  And I don't really view it negative towards Nintendo at all.  I am basically giving Nintendo a split victory.  

[that Baby guy]

Mario and Sonic at the Olympic Games.  Being developed and published by Sega, and Nintendo sending Miyamoto to help with the project, well, that's just icing on the cake for Sega.  Essentially, it looks like Sega will get most of the benefit of this deal.  Sega isn't Nintendo's enemy, and they really were barely enemies to begin with, except through marketing.  Sega's just stupid a lot of the time, really.

[Ian Sane]

You know I never once heard anyone mention they were tired of pushing buttons until Nintendo told them they were.  You're not really bored of the controller but rather what companies are choosing to make with those controllers.  Content is what is stale or interesting.  The controller is merely a tool.

I'm bored of overuse of franchises and companies like EA becoming too powerful and flooding the market with generic mainstream product.  I blame that on gaming being targeted to the mainstream who traditionally favour everything bland.  Ironically Nintendo's proposed solution is to target this demographic more aggressively which will probably be successful financially but will make things worse artistically.

If you don't like any shows on TV or any music on the radio so do you say "I'm so bored of watching stuff or listening to stuff"?  No of course not.  You say you're tired of what TV and radio are offering you.  It's the content that has bored you.  It's only because Nintendo fed us this "the old controller is boring" PR junk that this idea took off.  "Bored with buttons" is a marketing strategy that for some reason is being proclaimed as a revolutionary idealogy.  Which is was Nintendo's best-case-scenario all along, I'm sure.  Maybe they're not so bad at marketing anyway.

Sega making dumb business decisions based on a petty personal rivalry from ten years ago may seem to go against the whole point of business but that doesn't mean they won't do it.  Hell any wrestling fan saw the WWF buy WCW and ECW and have the perfect opportunity to have the ultimate cross-promotional rivalry that could have kept fan interest for YEARS.  Instead they blew it.  The invasion angle was a joke and died a few months later.  The reason: to have an effective storyline WCW had to be portrayed as a threat which wasn't allowed because the WWF did not want to suggest to the fans that a former competitor was actually worthwhile in some fashion.  A great business opportunity was squandered because of personal egos.  It happens every day.  People hire yes-men over employees who will make the company more money.  People squash good ideas just because it wasn't there own.  Hell Nintendo has done some goofy things in the past where you KNOW they only reason they did it goofy was because a competitor did it first and using the same good solution would admit that the competitor was right.  So if Sega is jeopardizing their future because they don't want to seem too supportive of a company they used to be rivals with, well, that's just life.

Though I don't think they are.  They're just being Sega.  32X, releasing the Saturn early, Sonic Team sucking, supporting the PS3 - it all fits.

[that Baby guy]

You might not have heard of people frustrated with buttons before the Wii-mote was announced and ideas were revealed, but I grew up with all but a few people around me detesting buttons.  Is your entire family extremely tech-savvy, Ian?  Mine isn't, neither are the kids back from my high school that wouldn't touch a game controller, but loved DDR when they saw it.  People have always hated buttons, which is why the arcade was able to make one final hurrah with guns, steering wheels, and snow-skis, while fighters got harder and harder to find.

[King of Twitch]

"The Wii will start to look really dated in a couple years when developers get more value from the 360 and learn more and more about the PlayStation 3," Steinberg said.

That's what they said about the PS2, only in reverse: "The PS2 looks dated now, but once developers learn to harness the dual processors, there will be no stopping it!" and "The PS2 is challenging to program for -- but we enjoy the challenge!"

All playstation brand disadvantages are actually advantages through the magic of bribery.

[Kairon]

Quote
Originally posted by: Ian Sane
If you don't like any shows on TV or any music on the radio so do you say "I'm so bored of watching stuff or listening to stuff"?  No of course not.  You say you're tired of what TV and radio are offering you.  It's the content that has bored you.  It's only because Nintendo fed us this "the old controller is boring" PR junk that this idea took off.  "Bored with buttons" is a marketing strategy that for some reason is being proclaimed as a revolutionary idealogy.  Which is was Nintendo's best-case-scenario all along, I'm sure.  Maybe they're not so bad at marketing anyway.

Ummm... no. I AM tired of TV. I AM tired of radio. I love the content, but the good stuff is few and far between, plus it's presented in a way that makes me want to turn the darn things off (commercials (and I actually PAY ATTENTION and sometimes ENJOY commercials!), "wait till next week", changing volume levels, interruptions, etc.).

Now I do all my tv watching through DVD box sets via Netflix. Sorry TV, but you've got too many things going on when all I want to do is watch the darn program (at my leisure too). I used to watch Gilmore Girls religiously... now I just stick the dvd box set in my netflix. I do all my radio listening wthrough NPR... no commercials, and a great variety of news and prairie home companion content!

Call my a non-watcher. Call me a lapsed listener. But I had to find different avenues to receive my entertainment because the traditional things have stagnated. Also, reality tv shows were TV's bald space marines.