Author Topic: Sega proves once again why they are the dumbest company in the universe.  (Read 20287 times)

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Offline GoldenPhoenix

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Originally posted by: Ian Sane
You know I never once heard anyone mention they were tired of pushing buttons until Nintendo told them they were.  You're not really bored of the controller but rather what companies are choosing to make with those controllers.  Content is what is stale or interesting.  The controller is merely a tool.


Ian get over your stupid "NIntendo is forcing the Wiimote" cry baby act, it is ridiculous.  In fact most innovations are things people didn't even know they wanted until they got a hold of it. Heck before the NES people weren't tired of the ATARI joystick (They were tired of gaming) but those mean old people at Nintendo went against the grain and released a game pad! Those same old individuals also implemented an analog stick when people were perfectly happy with the digital pad.
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Offline ThePerm

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where the fuck is shenmue 3?  only sega can make an incredible game and a sequel without an ending..and then turn the next game that everyone expects into vaporware
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Offline GoldenPhoenix

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Originally posted by: ThePerm
where the fuck is shenmue 3?  only sega can make an incredible game and a sequel without an ending..and then turn the next game that everyone expects into vaporware


The big question is "Do we want Sega to make Shenmue 3?".
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Offline Kairon

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Some third party developer with big dreams should just BUY the Shenmue license, make it themselves, and it'd probably turn out better. Maybe Totally games can work on it after Alien Syndrome.
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Offline GoldenPhoenix

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Originally posted by: Kairon
Some third party developer with big dreams should just BUY the Shenmue license, make it themselves, and it'd probably turn out better. Maybe Totally games can work on it after Alien Syndrome.


I would like to see Miyamoto give Shenmue a shot.
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Offline IceCold

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Oh man. Shenmue. Miyamoto. Wii. *drool* Panzer Dragoon too, please!
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In 2008 the Xbox 360 and PS3 games will look light years better than Wii games. There is definitely some growth to be had within the Wii's graphics, but starting next year it just won't be able to compete.
Spak, one of the few things I disagree with you on is sales and pricing. Didn't you say a few months ago that the Wii should be at $150 by Christmas 07?

This point just doesn't hold ground - the graphics between Wii ports and 2nd (3rd?) generation 360 games is already wide, yet the Wii is still going strong. Traditional thinking is gone! The new generation is in! Graphics actually don't matter anymore (for the Wii at least)! If they aren't affecting the situation now, I see no reason why two years down the road it'll be any different. I need couchmonkey here - his points are the best in these types of topics. Plus, his Canadian avatar is awesome.

Also, the 360 won't win worldwide. It may hit 35.. 40 million consoles at most, which is impressive in its own right, but it really is a niche console. Halo 3 will obviously help sell systems, but so many people already own the console who will buy Halo that it won't be as much as many tend to think.
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Offline NinGurl69 *huggles

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Talk of Sega's significance and Shenmoo3 automatically phails this thread.
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Offline Mario

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Sega just wants money, Nintendo can't offer them that.

Offline Chozo Ghost

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Originally posted by: Mario
Sega just wants money, Nintendo can't offer them that.


In other words, they'd rather make a living being a Salacious Crumb for Sony, instead of making money the old fashioned way by making great games on a system where they would actually sell.
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Offline KDR_11k

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It's sega, they're afraid of sales.

Offline Spak-Spang

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IceCold:  I may have said that months ago...I know I did recently say I hope Nintendo does a price cut by Christmas (If Xbox 360 has one.)

Traditional thinking is not quite out yet.  Wii is selling great with a new audience and the traditional gamer, but Nintendo hasn't proven yet to the traditional gamer that they can provide a great online experience, and that the new controller truly makes the "gamers games" better.  

The reason I say this is that the new audience is not proven to buy software by the numbers that gamers go buy games.  If it turns out they do, then Nintendo has won this hands down.  If it turns out they only buy 3-4 games a year then Nintendo's hardware lead will not be as important as the software sales the other systems can provide.

Also, gamers do appreciate better graphics, but not only that...the power that the Xbox 360 and PS3 can provide larger multi-player games online, better AI, and much more that gamers appreciate.  

Until we see the Xbox 360 and PS3 priced closer to the market sweet spot, like Nintendo is we can't just say Nintendo Wiis selling trend will continue for the unforeseeable future.  (Although I personally hope it does...because I enjoy my Wii, and can't afford another system.

The big question is in 08 if the Wii is around $150-199 and the Xbox 360 is $250-300 and the PS3 what $400.  Will the Wii's pricing and innovation continue to push sales or will people finally decide that the Xbox 360 is a great deal for a gaming device and media device...or will the PS3 finally reveal its supposed promise and begin pumping out games to win back the lead it had with the PS2?

The questions can not be easily answered or predicted.  This is what makes Sega's comments so stupid.  You can't pick a winner yet, and if you are picking a winner why would you pick the current underdog?


Offline KDR_11k

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Nintendo hasn't proven yet to the traditional gamer that they can provide a great online experience

To be fair, most of the people you hear on the internet are Americans and they don't have Strikers yet.

Will the Wii's pricing and innovation continue to push sales

No, the games will. Nintendo is rapidly gaining third party support which should translate in a large number of games that will sell the system instead of any hardware gimmick.

Offline TrueNerd

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Originally posted by: GoldenPhoenix
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Originally posted by: TrueNerd
What's so wrong about that logic? Sony was on top last gen, they'll be on top this gen. That's how it works. You fanboys get too defensive over FACTS.

But seriously, I love how he asks, "How can they design products that aren't too derivative of what's already out there?"

Scott. My man. I have a biblical reference for you. Take the giant friggin plank of wood out of your own eye before complaining about the speck in your brother's eye. Peace.


Maybe because Sony is getting its butt kicked everywhere? That is far more logical then it being in the lead last generation especially when you look at video game HISTORY, it has proven to not be true time and time again.


Yeah. That was definitely sarcasm on my part.  

Offline ThePerm

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Nintendo should do a price cut, making the system cheaper, & sell it with metroid and wii play for regular price.
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Offline Kairon

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Originally posted by: Mario
Sega just wants money, Nintendo can't offer them that.


*Sigh*

Doesn't Sega know that Nintendo systems PRINT money?!?!?
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Offline Smash_Brother

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Originally posted by: Ian Sane
You know I never once heard anyone mention they were tired of pushing buttons until Nintendo told them they were.


I had no intention of buying another game system, ever again, until I saw what the Wii's controller would look like and how it would play, so yes, I WAS bored with pushing buttons.
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Offline EasyCure

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Originally posted by: denjet78
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Originally posted by: EasyCure
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Sega is assuming that when this happens controller innovation will be worn out fad, and gamers will want to play games at are graphically superior. It also assumes that the Wii control system is pretty weak and after awhile gamers will get bored of controls games basically doing the same thing for each game, AND that motion is imprecise


that line really bugs me. i hear it everytime there is something negitive to say about the wii.

is it supposed to mean that once gamers get tired of flicking our wrist we'll want to go back to button smashing? cuz im pretty tired of that after gaming since the 8bit days. you know what im sick of doing in every fighting game? down-to-forward [insert attack button here]. i hate it, it gets my thumb sore everytime because if my timing is only slightly off i have to do it over and over again to get a fireball or something to work. i'd rather flick my wrist and move my hand around and feel slightly more connected to the game then go back to mashing the same buttons over and over again. maybe in another 20 years i'll get tired of "waggle" just as i did button smashing but for right now its still pretty fresh to me.

i think sega is bitter for being driven out of the hardware race because of the ps1 and 2 and are going out and saying things like this so that Sony continues to screw up, then when they bow out and leave nintendo and microsoft, Sega will be right there to say "how does it feel?" or [insert something witty]

if thats not the case then they really are the dumbest company in the universe.


I know I got tired and bored of BUTTONS after playing with my NES for a couple months. I mean, geeze! How many times do I have to push that damn thing? All it does is go up and down. How boring is that?

Controllers haven't really evolved one iota since even before the NES. Look at the PS3 and 360 controllers. They're NES controllers with more buttons and analogue sticks which is basically a more precise digital pad, another button I might add.

The button interface needs to DIE! The sooner the better.

And Sega's retarded.


the heavy sarcasm makes me think you didnt understand my post so i'll reprase it to this:

im not against buttons, im against people saying "people wil get tired of doing the same motions for wii over and over again" because since SNES we've done the same motions in almost every fighter (except smash, god bless it) with a dpad and button press or hold. to relate to any youth that isnt familiar with those days think about how almost every FPS on a console has the same control scheme, so we're doing those motions repeatadly too.

honestly, who here would want to do marios fireball attack in smash by inputting something like: v,> B or this uppercut be:  v,>,^ Y.    how about links spin attack, wouldnt it be fun to have to input:  <, v, > A?

we've been doing the same motions in gaming for a long time now and thankfully wii is offering something different and new.

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Offline EasyCure

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You know I never once heard anyone mention they were tired of pushing buttons until Nintendo told them they were. You're not really bored of the controller but rather what companies are choosing to make with those controllers. Content is what is stale or interesting. The controller is merely a tool.


i dont want to sound like im taking things personal since i wrote it my post being tired of buttons, but i want to say this in reply to the quote above:

i was tired of buttons before nintendo starting pimping wii on us. you're right in what you say though its not so much the buttons but the content. to an extent though the buttons are part of the problem when the content all becomes stale and every game feels exactly the same because you're doing the same exact butten presses in each.

last generation was actually the first time i went multiplatform since i became a gamer. then midway thru i became bored with most games and stopped wasting my money. i started buying cheap used games and renting just because i didnt think the games were worth the investment anymore. i stopped playing for about a year but i kept up with the news to see if anything intersting was coming out. i became a lapsed gamer at 19 when i've been playing since i was 3. i didnt need nintendos pr to come out and say gaming was getting stale, i felt it so i gave it up almost completely (i god a ds when mario kart came out and bought a few other games that had sparked my interest).

when i heard about the wii i actually became excited, a sort of excitement i hadnt felt since i was in elementary school hyped up about a new megaman game or something. it was like becoming a fanboy all over again because i was being promised something new. i've made my investment in a Wii and im not about to purchase just minigames, i still like my "hardcore gamer" games, and the controller does add something fresh to the mix that i wouldnt of been able to get into if nintendo didnt bring the wiimote to us.

now i know theres a majority of people out there that blindly follow whatever nintendo says and are/were pretty much brainwashed into thinking the way they want them to think, but im not one of them. i am aware im probably in a very veeery small minority here, especially on these forums.  
February 07, 2003, 02:35:52 PM
EASYCURE: I remember thinking(don't ask me why) this was a blond haired, blue eyed, chiseled athlete. Like he looked like Seigfried before he became Nightmare.

Offline GoldenPhoenix

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Originally posted by: EasyCure
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You know I never once heard anyone mention they were tired of pushing buttons until Nintendo told them they were. You're not really bored of the controller but rather what companies are choosing to make with those controllers. Content is what is stale or interesting. The controller is merely a tool.


i dont want to sound like im taking things personal since i wrote it my post being tired of buttons, but i want to say this in reply to the quote above:

i was tired of buttons before nintendo starting pimping wii on us. you're right in what you say though its not so much the buttons but the content. to an extent though the buttons are part of the problem when the content all becomes stale and every game feels exactly the same because you're doing the same exact butten presses in each.

last generation was actually the first time i went multiplatform since i became a gamer. then midway thru i became bored with most games and stopped wasting my money. i started buying cheap used games and renting just because i didnt think the games were worth the investment anymore. i stopped playing for about a year but i kept up with the news to see if anything intersting was coming out. i became a lapsed gamer at 19 when i've been playing since i was 3. i didnt need nintendos pr to come out and say gaming was getting stale, i felt it so i gave it up almost completely (i god a ds when mario kart came out and bought a few other games that had sparked my interest).

when i heard about the wii i actually became excited, a sort of excitement i hadnt felt since i was in elementary school hyped up about a new megaman game or something. it was like becoming a fanboy all over again because i was being promised something new. i've made my investment in a Wii and im not about to purchase just minigames, i still like my "hardcore gamer" games, and the controller does add something fresh to the mix that i wouldnt of been able to get into if nintendo didnt bring the wiimote to us.

now i know theres a majority of people out there that blindly follow whatever nintendo says and are/were pretty much brainwashed into thinking the way they want them to think, but im not one of them. i am aware im probably in a very veeery small minority here, especially on these forums.


You know you are definately right, the industry was heading into a rut with buttons, they made games more difficult play and never even came close to the keyboard/mouse combo of PCs. People talk about Wii not being conducive to some types of games, well button controllers have NEVER been conducive to the FPS genre or RTS. Games were getting to the point where they had to be watered down to fit the game pads button setup (Unlike a keyboard not all the buttons are easily accessible), not to mention you felt confined. Even with the mouse you FEEL like you are aiming with the mouse, you don't get that same feeling when you are fighting with an analog stick. The Wiimote seems to bring the best of both worlds with the nunchuck/wiimote combo which has made games that were once not easily accessible (FPS for one) much more accessible. Yeah the Wiimote has trade offs, but it also has many MANY positives a pad does not have.  
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Offline BigJim

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Graphics and "old" controllers and "traditional thinking" are not being rejected by the masses.

PRICE is being rejected.

When the price drops finally come and release schedules have matured, things will normalize in some fashion and sales will not be this lop-sided.  It's a matter of how much sustainable momentum Nintendo will have to maintain a lead in the long term once the competition finally reaches a level of price tolerance. And nobody can predict that particularly well.

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Offline Chozo Ghost

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I'm thinking the Wii controls shouldn't really replace traditional controls but exist alongside it just like mice and keyboards co-exist, you know what I mean? When the analog stick was introduced it didn't really replace the D-pad, but instead coexisted alongside it. The same should be true with the wiimote. It has the analog on the nunchuck and of course the D-pad on the remote itself, so neither of those things have really been replaced, right?

So it should be up to developers to simply leave motion control OUT of their games if it doesn't fit, instead of shoe-horning it in and making a game that plays horribly. When you use a computer to browse the web you use the keyboard to enter text and you use the mouse to navigate (well, some use the keyboard to navigate too), but why can't that be the way it is with Wii games? Use whatever makes sense for the task, but don't lock gamers into one or the other.
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Offline Adrock

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I think both control options can co-exist, just not so much on Wii because it costs $80 for the Wii remote, nunchuck, and classic controller. If Nintendo really wants them to coexist, they need to create one setup that can do both equally as well. That shouldn't be too hard for them.

Offline Kairon

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Originally posted by: BigJim
Graphics and "old" controllers and "traditional thinking" are not being rejected by the masses.

PRICE is being rejected.


Yeah, that's why the gaming market has NOT increased since the NES percentage wise, and why the market in Japan was SHRINKING before the DS came out.
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A glooming peace this morning with it brings;
The sun, for sorrow, will not show his head:
Go hence, to have more talk of these sad things;
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For never was a story of more woe
Than this of Sega and her Mashiro.

Offline denjet78

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Originally posted by: EasyCure


the heavy sarcasm makes me think you didnt understand my post so i'll reprase it to this:

im not against buttons, im against people saying "people wil get tired of doing the same motions for wii over and over again" because since SNES we've done the same motions in almost every fighter (except smash, god bless it) with a dpad and button press or hold. to relate to any youth that isnt familiar with those days think about how almost every FPS on a console has the same control scheme, so we're doing those motions repeatadly too.

honestly, who here would want to do marios fireball attack in smash by inputting something like: v,> B or this uppercut be:  v,>,^ Y.    how about links spin attack, wouldnt it be fun to have to input:  <, v, > A?

we've been doing the same motions in gaming for a long time now and thankfully wii is offering something different and new.


Ooops. I'm sorry. I was actually completely agreeing with you. I didn't mean to make you think I was directing that at you. I was actually directing that at the post you were replying to and using your post as support. I suppose I should have been more explicit in that.

I've always thought that motion control was going to be the next leap. I remember playing SMB back on the NES and wondering why when I jumped and raised the controller a little bit that I didn't jump that little bit higher. It took me a while to realize that the button was the only real interface. The controller itself didn't do anything. Ever since then though I've been waiting for the Wii.

Motion control is the future. We're not going to be putting on VR helmets and then using button based controllers to interact with the world. We're going to expect to be able to actually reach out with our own two hands and interact with everything. The Wii is the first step in that direction. Sure it isn't as if we're able to reach into a virtual world and interact with things with our own hands yet. It's more like using a stick or a baseball bat. A sword or a magic wand. You can't do everything with it but at least it's a step in the right direction. And it's light years ahead of a simple button press.

I've said it over and over and over again but no one seems to understand it.

People are afraid of what they don't know. Gamers are afraid of motion control because it's new. They don't know the real promise it brings. And they won't understand it until they give it a try. Sadly a good number of gamers are so afraid of it, and the idea that it will bring massive changes to games, that they won't even do that. They'd rather sit back and press a button because it's comfortable and familiar. They're like an infant with a baby blanket. It's these same people who retard advancement at every step. If they don't understand it, it must be bad. Eventually though the world moves on with or without them.

Button based controllers are like the dinosaurs and the Wii comet has just struck the earth.

Where will you be when the dust settles?

Offline BigJim

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Originally posted by: Kairon
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Originally posted by: BigJim
Graphics and "old" controllers and "traditional thinking" are not being rejected by the masses.

PRICE is being rejected.


Yeah, that's why the gaming market has NOT increased since the NES percentage wise, and why the market in Japan was SHRINKING before the DS came out.


Praise Reggie for his charts. Can I get an Amen? But let me know when they produce a chart that proves it was graphics and controllers being rejected.  The DS also has this objectionable interface, in fact it has even more buttons and screens than its predecessor, yet manages to squeak by with these antiquated and intimidating handicaps.
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