Author Topic: Drought, drought...FLOOD!  (Read 22034 times)

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Offline Ian Sane

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RE: Drought, drought...FLOOD!
« Reply #25 on: March 26, 2007, 09:20:12 AM »
"All seven of those games that you have never played are overrated? Come on Ian, that's troll talk, you can do better..."

So no one noticed the in my post.  I was partially joking around.

Most of the Wii releases since the initial launch have been filler titles.  If you like 'em, that's fine but the games coming out right now are generally weak.  They're the typical filler you see between launch and when the "real" games come and the console starts having a consistent stream of titles.  Most of the games out now will be forgotten about in six months.  This isn't a Nintendo thing, it's been quite common since the PS2 launch (name a PS2 game from 2000 that anyone plays now, hell name one PERIOD).  I'm just irritated by this buncha nothing being hailed as great third party support and how there's so much to choose from.  Well if you have taste there isn't much.  Anyone who is struggling to afford all the great titles now is either really broke or has low standards.  And this isn't "Nintendo-only" this is merely recognizing the difference between must-rents and must-buys.

This is like back in 2002 when the Cube had a drought (which was admitingly much worse than this one) and people were all "OMG!  Cel Damage came out this week.! YES!"  And if you don't remember Cel Damage that's part of the point.

Godfather came out on other consoles a YEAR AGO so don't try to pass it off as some sort of big must play game.  It's just EA dumping whatever they can on the Wii to get a sale from people itching for a new game during a lull.  Maybe the game is actually pretty good but that doesn't not make it a cash-in port.  It's the equivalent of Crazy Taxi on the Cube which was a good game, though an old one ported for a quick buck during a release drought.  No one then said "hey the drought's over because this game is great."  

Offline Ceric

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RE: Drought, drought...FLOOD!
« Reply #26 on: March 26, 2007, 09:25:35 AM »
Fantavision and I played it just before my PS2 broke.
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Offline Ceric

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RE: Drought, drought...FLOOD!
« Reply #27 on: March 26, 2007, 09:25:52 AM »
I'm am the Ghost of Post Past.
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Offline NWR_pap64

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RE:Drought, drought...FLOOD!
« Reply #28 on: March 26, 2007, 09:26:46 AM »
Quote

Originally posted by: Ian Sane
Godfather came out on other consoles a YEAR AGO so don't try to pass it off as some sort of big must play game.  It's just EA dumping whatever they can on the Wii to get a sale from people itching for a new game during a lull.  Maybe the game is actually pretty good but that doesn't not make it a cash-in port.  It's the equivalent of Crazy Taxi on the Cube which was a good game, though an old one ported for a quick buck during a release drought.  No one then said "hey the drought's over because this game is great."


And there you go being a Nintendo snub again...

Yeah, we are aware that this is a port of a game released a year ago. But again, have YOU played it? You just used your Nintendo beliefs to come up with the conclusion that the Godfather is NOT worth it when you haven't even played it in order to back those claims!

SB, as much as he loved it, has said that if you have already played it to avoid it since it doesn't offer anything new. And as near as I can tell, despite its cash in port status, the game is GOOD and makes excellent use of the Wiimote controller.

So again, I think you are dealing this with far too much fanboy angst.
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Offline vudu

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RE:Drought, drought...FLOOD!
« Reply #29 on: March 26, 2007, 09:27:54 AM »
Quote

Originally posted by: Ian Sane
"(name a PS2 game from 2000 that anyone plays now, hell name one PERIOD)
Madden 2001
Why must all things be so bright? Why can things not appear only in hues of brown! I am so serious about this! Dull colors are the future! The next generation! I will never accept a world with such bright colors! It is far too childish! I will rage against your cheery palette with my last breath!

Offline GoldenPhoenix

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RE:Drought, drought...FLOOD!
« Reply #30 on: March 26, 2007, 09:49:49 AM »

Quote

2. It has been proven in the past that websites trash a game and the gaming community agree that its a far better game (Red Steel, Secret rings, SSX Blur and Excite Truck come to mind). Sometimes its best to try the game for YOURSELF and see what YOU think, not what some random editor says.


Hate to break it to you but Secret Rings, ExciteTruck and even SSX Blur (Probably the most mixed because of controls) to an extent received decent to good reviews (from 70-80% average). Red Steel on the other hand has gotten average reviews accross the board, INCLUDING the gaming community besides a few here.
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Offline UltimatePartyBear

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RE:Drought, drought...FLOOD!
« Reply #31 on: March 26, 2007, 09:54:39 AM »
For comparison's sake:

GameCube's first February
  • Dark Summit --- Feb 4, 2002
  • ESPN International Winter Sports 2002 --- Feb 4, 2002
  • Sonic Adventure 2 Battle --- Feb 11, 2002
  • NBA Street    Basketball --- Feb 17, 2002
  • Smashing Drive --- Feb 18, 2002
  • 18 Wheeler: American Pro Trucker --- Feb 18, 2002
  • All-Star Baseball 2003 --- Feb 25, 2002
  • Jeremy McGrath Supercross World --- Feb 27, 2002

    GameCube's first March
  • Gauntlet Dark Legacy --- Mar 6, 2002
  • Spy Hunter --- Mar 11, 2002
  • James Bond 007 in Agent Under Fire --- Mar 13, 2002
  • Bloody Roar: Primal Fury --- Mar 18, 2002
  • Home Run KING --- Mar 18, 2002
  • NFL Blitz 20-02 --- Mar 18, 2002
  • Sega Soccer Slam --- Mar 18, 2002
  • Pac-Man World 2 --- Mar 19, 2002
  • NBA 2K2 --- Mar 20, 2002
  • ESPN MLS ExtraTime 2002 --- Mar 25, 2002
  • Donald Duck: Goin' Quackers --- Mar 25, 2002
  • Driven --- Mar 30, 2002

    GameCube's first April
  • Spider-Man: The Movie --- Apr 15, 2002
  • Burnout --- Apr 29, 2002
  • 2002 FIFA World Cup --- Apr 30, 2002
  • Resident Evil --- Apr 30, 2002

    Source: NWR and GameSpot.  

  • Offline NWR_pap64

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    RE:Drought, drought...FLOOD!
    « Reply #32 on: March 26, 2007, 09:56:52 AM »
    Quote

    Originally posted by: GoldenPhoenix
    Quote

    2. It has been proven in the past that websites trash a game and the gaming community agree that its a far better game (Red Steel, Secret rings, SSX Blur and Excite Truck come to mind). Sometimes its best to try the game for YOURSELF and see what YOU think, not what some random editor says.


    Hate to break it to you but Secret Rings, ExciteTruck and even SSX Blur (Probably the most mixed because of controls) to an extent received decent to good reviews (from 70-80% average). Red Steel on the other hand has gotten average reviews accross the board, INCLUDING the gaming community besides a few here.


    Bah, hate? You LOVE breaking it to me!

    As for the argument, I do realize that some of these games did get excellent reviews, but they still had a community of fans and editors that absolutely DESPISED them when they came out, and are still the subject of debate in many forums. I mean, before Excite Truck was released there were fans that despised it because they couldn't understand the controls (hence why SB claimed that the haters should rent it instead of trashing it). As for Red Steel, its an even better example since fans are quick to hate it but there ARE fans that enjoyed the game and pointed out its qualities.

    Another example would be Wii Play. It didn't have any control issues, but it was TRASHED severely by everyone. But fans claimed that the game wasn't THAT bad. Yeah, it was just a collection of tech demos, but it wasn't like the worst game of the year.
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    Offline GoldenPhoenix

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    RE:Drought, drought...FLOOD!
    « Reply #33 on: March 26, 2007, 10:05:16 AM »
    Quote

    Originally posted by: pap64
    Quote

    Originally posted by: GoldenPhoenix
    Quote

    2. It has been proven in the past that websites trash a game and the gaming community agree that its a far better game (Red Steel, Secret rings, SSX Blur and Excite Truck come to mind). Sometimes its best to try the game for YOURSELF and see what YOU think, not what some random editor says.


    Hate to break it to you but Secret Rings, ExciteTruck and even SSX Blur (Probably the most mixed because of controls) to an extent received decent to good reviews (from 70-80% average). Red Steel on the other hand has gotten average reviews accross the board, INCLUDING the gaming community besides a few here.


    Bah, hate? You LOVE breaking it to me!

    As for the argument, I do realize that some of these games did get excellent reviews, but they still had a community of fans and editors that absolutely DESPISED them when they came out, and are still the subject of debate in many forums. I mean, before Excite Truck was released there were fans that despised it because they couldn't understand the controls (hence why SB claimed that the haters should rent it instead of trashing it). As for Red Steel, its an even better example since fans are quick to hate it but there ARE fans that enjoyed the game and pointed out its qualities.

    Another example would be Wii Play. It didn't have any control issues, but it was TRASHED severely by everyone. But fans claimed that the game wasn't THAT bad. Yeah, it was just a collection of tech demos, but it wasn't like the worst game of the year.


    I think many of the reviews were fair with Wii Play (not all I might add), it was polished for what it was but it still didn't have much depth (though for 10$ basically it was a steal). Not going to argue about Red Steel, except for the fact that its fan base that supposedly fines alot of quality in it is quite small. Then again I may be too harsh because I personally dont' care much for any FPS on consoles since they all pale in comparison to PC FPSs!
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    Offline ShyGuy

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    RE: Drought, drought...FLOOD!
    « Reply #34 on: March 26, 2007, 10:06:47 AM »
    Gauntlet Dark Legacy - Man that was a great game. I think I played through it about 3 times.

    Offline Crave

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    RE:Drought, drought...FLOOD!
    « Reply #35 on: March 26, 2007, 10:29:44 AM »
    Please then Pap... pick the site of your choice for review. Post a better rating. High standards? Yes, of course they are. That's because Nintendo, and third parties set that standard in the past and it's what I come to expect.  Your telling me that if you have an employee that exceeds your expectations in every aspect, then the following year his work quality drops 90% that your not going to expect and or question this decline...I bet you would.  

    Offline NWR_pap64

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    RE:Drought, drought...FLOOD!
    « Reply #36 on: March 26, 2007, 10:42:18 AM »
    Quote

    Originally posted by: Crave
    Please then ... pick the site of your choice for review. Post a better rating. I have been too more then one site. Usually people are less likely to discredit IGN.   P.S. Your avatar is about as up to date as your info.


    I won't, because even when a website has a solid review streak there WILL be a time where I will disagree with what they think of the game. Reviews ARE used as reference when buying ANYTHING, but they shouldn't dictate the final decision since many aspects play out. For example, I LOVED Chibi-Robo, but many reviews trashed it badly. Game informer even went as far as to say that the game was just a chore simulator and that it was the perfect punishment for children.

    If your point was to post the average scores a game has gotten you should use sites like Gamerankings. They take ALL the reviews the game has gotten and will post the average score. Your point will be more valid that if you just post one gaming source.

    Again, IGN is just ONE of MANY reviews site so they shouldn't be used as the end all when talking about game reviews.

    As for the icon, check the general forums, under "Obscure 8-bit character icon".
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    Offline GoldenPhoenix

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    RE:Drought, drought...FLOOD!
    « Reply #37 on: March 26, 2007, 10:48:30 AM »
    I know IGN is hated, but usually my opinion on games usually falls in line with what they think (especially Matt and Mark). There are times when I disagree, but usually when I make a gaming descision I use them as a guide of sorts (In addition to other sources).
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    Offline NWR_pap64

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    RE:Drought, drought...FLOOD!
    « Reply #38 on: March 26, 2007, 10:56:39 AM »
    Quote

    Originally posted by: Crave
    Please then Pap... pick the site of your choice for review. Post a better rating. High standards? Yes, of course they are. That's because Nintendo, and third parties set that standard in the past and it's what I come to expect.  Your telling me that if you have an employee that exceeds your expectations in every aspect, then the following year his work quality drops 90% that your not going to expect and or question this decline...I bet you would.


    Oh please...You are acting as if all of a sudden Nintendo lost ALL quality titles.

    First of all, the crap will ALWAYS be there mixed with the good, the decent and the absolutely amazing. And of course, said games will be criticized, ignored, made fun of and everything that comes with being an awful game. What I am saying is that is unfair and ignorant to brush off certain games simply because they don't meet YOUR standards and look down upon those that don't.

    No one is forcing you to buy the games. If you only care about the high quality, killer apps, that's YOUR decision and your problem to deal with. I simply ask to not rush into a conclusion and belittle those that don't care, ESPECIALLY if you are not going to bother and play the games, even if its just to solidify your argument in a discussion.

    And GP, that's how YOU base your games. I don't hate IGN, I am simply stating that when evaluating the quality of a game you should use several sources (friends included) when making a game buy decision.
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    Offline GoldenPhoenix

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    RE:Drought, drought...FLOOD!
    « Reply #39 on: March 26, 2007, 11:08:05 AM »
    Quote

    Originally posted by: pap64


    And GP, that's how YOU base your games. I don't hate IGN, I am simply stating that when evaluating the quality of a game you should use several sources (friends included) when making a game buy decision.


    Isn't that what I said?
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    Offline ShyGuy

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    RE: Drought, drought...FLOOD!
    « Reply #40 on: March 26, 2007, 11:16:13 AM »
    Can we at least all agree that six titles on the same day in March is a larger than normal selection of games in a short period of time?

    March 19th:

       *  Blazing Angels: Squadrons of WWII
       * Cooking Mama: Cook Off
       * The Godfather: Blackhand Edition
       * Kororinpa: Marble Mania
       * Wing Island
       * Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles


     

    Offline Ian Sane

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    RE: Drought, drought...FLOOD!
    « Reply #41 on: March 26, 2007, 11:30:38 AM »
    "Can we at least all agree that six titles on the same day in March is a larger than normal selection of games in a short period of time?"

    I'll agree to that.

    Offline Infernal Monkey

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    RE: Drought, drought...FLOOD!
    « Reply #42 on: March 26, 2007, 12:34:11 PM »
    Quote

    (name a PS2 game from 2000 that anyone plays now, hell name one PERIOD)


    I could tell you about the first time I got my period if you want but it might be a bit messy. Also, Sky Odyssey.

    Quote

    Perhaps the title of this thread should be drought, drought, drizzle. What happened to Nintendo's saying "Quality not quantity" So far I see the quantity, with less then average attempts at quality.

    Reviews for most of these games are less then impressive: (Ratings from IGN)

    TMNT = 5.5
    Wing Island = 5.0
    Blazing Angels = 5.7
    Kororinpa = 6.2
    Cooking Mama = 5.8

    with the exception

    Godfather 8.0
    SSX Blur 8.4

    What amazes me is how we are content with crappy ports, a "list" of games, and Nintendo's attempt to capture a demographic. Show me a Nintendo that is focused on capturing it's original market of the NES, SNES days and I will show you a fanboy that is happy once again. -Crave Vent complete.


    Wow, it must be pretty sad to let reviews make up your opinion, and IGN reviews at that. I started ignoring reviews years ago, which is probably why PlayStation 2 quickly became one of my favorite consoles ever. Disaster Report got a 6 or something from them, that '6' game is my favorite game on the system, and the best thing Irem's ever developed.

    My Wii collection is made up of games that got average scores all over the joint, but it'd be a damn shame if I avoided them because someone else on a website said they didn't have enough tri-egg gigaflops and bi-sexualtexturemapping on the grass or whatever so it's not worth getting. Excite Truck's the greatest arcade racer since Rush, yet the big name sites wet their pants in frustration because it didn't have an RPG mode in it and no FMV's of Cloud flicking his hair. The Wii line-up now is fantastic considering it's living on third party titles for the most part. Kororinpa is one of the cutest and most addictive games in ages, Wii Play is extremely entertaining thanks to its retro take on gameplay, focusing on high scores instead of drama storylines. Wing Island is going to be awesome because I'm a huge fan of Pilotwings. I don't need reviews to argue my own opinion.

    Offline Smash_Brother

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    RE:Drought, drought...FLOOD!
    « Reply #43 on: March 26, 2007, 02:23:18 PM »
    Quote

    Originally posted by: Ian Sane I'm just irritated by this buncha nothing being hailed as great third party support and how there's so much to choose from.  Well if you have taste there isn't much.  Anyone who is struggling to afford all the great titles now is either really broke or has low standards.  And this isn't "Nintendo-only" this is merely recognizing the difference between must-rents and must-buys.


    First of all, nice job belittling the opinions of people by saying "if you have taste", and by people, I mean every NWR forumer who has tried Godfather and loves it (which is, coincidentally, all of them).

    Second, "must-rent/buy" is too highly subjective of a term to truly define. In my case, buying a game where my friends and I have already put 32 hours into it having only owned it for four days means that it was smart to buy it, especially considering I haven't even come CLOSE to finishing it.

    In your case, a "must-buy" would be a game which somehow inspires the same feelings of nostalgia you had while enjoying games as a child, something which will very likely never happen.

    Ian, you're very much like the woman who reads too many romance novels and expects to one day meet that handsome prince who will sweep her off her feet and take care of her for the rest of her life, except in your case, you're waiting for that game which magically transports you back to the "golden" age of gaming because you don't realize that the fond memories you have of these games largely stem from the fact that you played them as a child. Everything seems better when you're a kid, and even the best games from the golden age which I remember are still fun, but they don't have that same magic because that magic was something I was personally injecting into the experience.

    Thus, your standards are ridiculously high, and that doesn't mean you're a more discerning gamer with better tastes. It means that you're a snob who brushes off games he's never played on a system he doesn't even own because he wants something from gaming that it can no longer offer.

    Quote

    This is like back in 2002 when the Cube had a drought (which was admitingly much worse than this one) and people were all "OMG!  Cel Damage came out this week.! YES!"  And if you don't remember Cel Damage that's part of the point.


    I remember Cel Damage because I rented it and it sucked, but I'm going to remember Godfather as the first game that truly made the Wii remote translate directly into violent action and one that my friends and I enjoyed playing together.

    Quote

    Godfather came out on other consoles a YEAR AGO so don't try to pass it off as some sort of big must play game.  It's just EA dumping whatever they can on the Wii to get a sale from people itching for a new game during a lull.  Maybe the game is actually pretty good but that doesn't not make it a cash-in port.  It's the equivalent of Crazy Taxi on the Cube which was a good game, though an old one ported for a quick buck during a release drought.  No one then said "hey the drought's over because this game is great."


    See, this is where your lack of a Wii really shines through: you don't understand what Wii control can actually DO for a game.

    Go read any of the Blackhand reviews. You'll notice ONE thing in common with all of them: everyone LOVES the controls, and I mean LOOOOOVES them. EA could have made a half-assed port with the Wii controls badly shoehorned in for a quick and dirty buck, but instead, they went the extra mile and made these controls so good they rival Wii Sports in responsiveness. Seriously, these controls are so good, I didn't expect them to be this responsive outside of a Nintendo-made game.

    The reason why the Godfather is so fun is because of the controls, and again, because you don't own a Wii (and made no effort to acquire one, from what I remember) you don't understand just how much of a difference it can make.

    I call this a flood because I WANT to try all of these games. From cooking games to more FPSes, I find the promise of these enticing enough that I wish to rent them all.

    I don't expect anyone to share that opinion, but I'm completely serious when I say that the new control scheme of the Wii has breathed a second life into my desire to try games which I wouldn't have otherwise bothered with.
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    Offline Adrock

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    RE:Drought, drought...FLOOD!
    « Reply #44 on: March 26, 2007, 02:36:52 PM »
    Quote

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    Quote

    The Wii line-up now is fantastic considering it's living on third party titles for the most part.

    I don't think the quality of 3rd party offerings is that much better than it was on Gamecube during the same time period. There just happens to be more games released on Wii. I have to give Nintendo and the Wii credit though for consistently selling out almost everywhere (or is it actually everywhere on a global level?) despite a general lack of AAA titles. Still, that right there is nothing short of amazing.

    Also, reviews are subjective. They're designed to give people an idea of what a game is like, but you really won't know until you try a game itself. I remember when EGM gave Castlevania on N64 7 and 8's.  

    Offline NWR_pap64

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    RE:Drought, drought...FLOOD!
    « Reply #45 on: March 26, 2007, 02:57:25 PM »
    Quote

    Originally posted by: Smash_Brother
    I remember Cel Damage because I rented it and it sucked, but I'm going to remember Godfather as the first game that truly made the Wii remote translate directly into violent action and one that my friends and I enjoyed playing together.


    And I'm not there to experience it with you guys...

    ...

     
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    Offline wandering

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    RE: Drought, drought...FLOOD!
    « Reply #46 on: March 26, 2007, 03:03:57 PM »
    You know, this discussion reminds me of a scene from the American President....

    President Andrew Shepherd: Look, if the people want to play-...
    Lewis Rothschild: They don't have a choice! Mediocre games are the only ones coming out! People want good games, Mr. President, and in the absence of genuine good games for the Wii, they'll buy anything that's put on store shelves. They want good games. They're so thirsty for them they'll crawl through the desert toward a mirage, and when they discover there's no water, they'll drink the sand.
    President Andrew Shepherd: Lewis, we've had games that were beloved, that couldn't find a coherent control scheme with two hands and a flashlight. People don't drink the sand because they're thirsty. They drink the sand because they don't know the difference.  
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    Offline NWR_pap64

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    RE:Drought, drought...FLOOD!
    « Reply #47 on: March 26, 2007, 03:18:03 PM »
    Quote

    Originally posted by: wandering
    You know, this discussion reminds me of a scene from the American President....

    President Andrew Shepherd: Look, if the people want to play-...
    Lewis Rothschild: They don't have a choice! Mediocre games are the only ones coming out! People want good games, Mr. President, and in the absence of genuine good games for the Wii, they'll buy anything that's put on store shelves. They want good games. They're so thirsty for them they'll crawl through the desert toward a mirage, and when they discover there's no water, they'll drink the sand.
    President Andrew Shepherd: Lewis, we've had games that were beloved, that couldn't find a coherent control scheme with two hands and a flashlight. People don't drink the sand because they're thirsty. They drink the sand because they don't know the difference.


    Sooo...was that a jab towards the fans that are pro third party or fans that are against the games?

    From what I understand, its a jab at both.

    Also, caught the Alice in Wonderland quote in your sig, which is funny because I saw the movie last Friday :p .
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    Offline Caliban

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    RE:Drought, drought...FLOOD!
    « Reply #48 on: March 26, 2007, 03:46:28 PM »
    Quote

    Originally posted by: Smash_Brother
    April is pretty quiet (yes, that is sarcasm), except for PoP on the 5th, Super Paper Mario on the 11th and Bust-A-Move on the 19th.


    What about Radio Allergy, I think it comes on the 27th.

    Offline IceCold

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    RE: Drought, drought...FLOOD!
    « Reply #49 on: March 26, 2007, 04:12:13 PM »
    First off, everything Infernal said is true.

    Also, you guys are thinking way too much. Super Paper Mario comes out in 2 weeks. That's all you need to know.
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