Topic: Drought, drought...FLOOD!

[GoldenPhoenix]

Quote
Originally posted by: IceCold
First off, everything Infernal said is true.

Also, you guys are thinking way too much. Super Paper Mario comes out in 2 weeks. That's all you need to know.

That is true, can't wait to play it.

[Urkel]

The Adventures of LOLo!

All the angst here is hi-larious, including my own, as you'll see.

So, just out of curiosity, are Nintendo fans unable to discern quality in portable games too, or is it just when their system isn't yet in first place? I bought (and enjoyed!) Touch Detective even though it got some unimpressive reviews. UH OH MUST BE A DESPERATE FANBOY!

I mean, by Ian's standards I'm pretty sure it would qualify as a filler title since:

1. It wasn't made between 1992 and 1996.

2. It wasn't on the cover of EGM just like every Xbox 360 game ever made, ever, so we know it's not a highly anticipated game according to game journalists and therefore not worth caring about.

3. It was developed by a company nobody has ever heard of so their support doesn't count.

So the only logical conclusion is that I have no taste in games. At all.
It's not like the DS has other "big" titles to choose from. lol subtle sarcasm lol
It's not like the DS has a couple really amazing adventure games with which I could use as a standard to determine if a game like Touch Detective is any good. lol can you tell I'm still being sarcastic lolololololol
Nope, I bought it because I'm desperate and have no taste in games. Oddly enough... not sarcasm. Go figure.

And don't think that this only applies to third party games. If a Nintendo gamer claims to enjoy a first party game, then they're also exhibiting poor taste since real Nintendo fans know that Miyamoto is past his prime.

[Pittbboi]

I agree with adrock.

On one hand it's good that the Wii is getting a decent number of titles this month. It shows some third party support. Especially since third parties are now starting to modify and add more content to their Wii versions of game. It's showing growing faith in Nintendo's console, which is a good thing no matter how you look at it.

But, on the other hand, to say that the support is fantastic is still quite a stretch, by any imagination. Three of those games are getting panned by the review community at large (not just IGN), and sure reviews don't mean everything--there'll always be people who can find something fun in even the worst of games, but at the same time reviewers can't be completely ignored. If the majority of people reviewing a game says it's bad....chances are it just might be.

Not only that, but the most anticipated title of the bunch is just a somewhat modified version of port game. The Godfather is a FUN game, I'll give it that, but that still doesn't change that fact that, once again, the anticipated Wii game of the month is a port. That's not "Fantastic" support.

Though I will say it looks like good support is coming, something I wouldn't have said just last month.

   

[wandering]

Quote
Originally posted by: pap64

Quote
Originally posted by: wandering
You know, this discussion reminds me of a scene from the American President....

President Andrew Shepherd: Look, if the people want to play-...
Lewis Rothschild: They don't have a choice! Mediocre games are the only ones coming out! People want good games, Mr. President, and in the absence of genuine good games for the Wii, they'll buy anything that's put on store shelves. They want good games. They're so thirsty for them they'll crawl through the desert toward a mirage, and when they discover there's no water, they'll drink the sand.
President Andrew Shepherd: Lewis, we've had games that were beloved, that couldn't find a coherent control scheme with two hands and a flashlight. People don't drink the sand because they're thirsty. They drink the sand because they don't know the difference.

Sooo...was that a jab towards the fans that are pro third party or fans that are against the games?.

More the former than the latter. I was trying to say this "flood" was more like a mirage in the desert. I wasn't impressed by Smash Brother's list of games (though I haven't, I admit, played any of them.)

[Kairon]

No, the point of that exchange in The American President is to show the American President being cynical and derisive about the American people... a low point for the movie AND the character because its utterly DEMORALIZING in the president.

If you really believe that that exchange is made to attack the voters(gamers, in our case), then there's nothing you can do because people don't have the capacity of telling right from wrong, good from bad. Cynicism of that level has NO PLACE in a position of national leadership, and it has NO PLACE in the business of making great videogames.

The point of that exchange is that Michael Douglas' character, the President, was being looked to for LEADERSHIP, and at that point in the story refusing to lead. In our videogame world, we're looking at third parties, who are being called to provide good gaming. Are they leading the way to good experiences? Are we drinking water, or sand? I'd like to think we can tell the difference.

Quote
Originally posted by: Urkel

And don't think that this only applies to third party games. If a Nintendo gamer claims to enjoy a first party game, then they're also exhibiting poor taste since real Nintendo fans know that Miyamoto is past his prime.

You're right, but a slight correction. Enjoying a Nintendo game now is poor taste because we all know that Miyamoto isn't DIRECTING any of 'em anymore. Just fyi.

~Carmine "Cai" M. Red
Kairon@aol.com

[wandering]

Quote
Originally posted by: Kairon
No, the point of that exchange in The American President is to show the American President being cynical and derisive about the American people... a low point for the movie AND the character because its utterly DEMORALIZING in the president.

If you really believe that that exchange is made to attack the voters(gamers, in our case), then there's nothing you can do because people don't have the capacity of telling right from wrong, good from bad. Cynicism of that level has NO PLACE in a position of national leadership, and it has NO PLACE in the business of making great videogames.

The point of that exchange is that Michael Douglas' character, the President, was being looked to for LEADERSHIP, and at that point in the story refusing to lead. In our videogame world, we're looking at third parties, who are being called to provide good gaming. Are they leading the way to good experiences? Are we drinking water, or sand? I'd like to think we can tell the difference.

Perhaps you're right. Perhaps gamers can tell the difference, and are only drinking the sand because they're so thirsty.

[Kairon]

Quote
Originally posted by: wandering

Perhaps you're right. Perhaps gamers can tell the difference, and are only drinking the sand because they're so thirsty.

I sense a faulty assumption...

~Carmine "Cai" M. Red
Kairon@aol.com

[GoldenPhoenix]

Quote
Originally posted by: Pittbboi

But, on the other hand, to say that the support is fantastic is still quite a stretch, by any imagination.

Kind of like, I dunno, Sony pimp slapping Nintendo at GDC?

[Pittbboi]

Quote

Kind of like, I dunno, Sony pimp slapping Nintendo at GDC?

For heaven's sake will you get over that??? Not only have I explained it countless times that I did NOT say Sony was specifically pimp slapping Nintendo and that it was JUST AN EXPRESSION I WAS USING but it was several weeks ago, and it has NOTHING to do with what we're talking about here.

Will you let it go already? Sony had a much better showing than Nintendo at the GDC--or at least I thought so. Now just let it die.

[Kairon]

Never! Past infidelities shall live forever in that hallowed realm called the internet to haunt you the rest of your lives!!!! MUAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

~Carmine "Cai" M. Red
Kairon@aol.com

[Smash_Brother]

Quote
Originally posted by: Pittbboi But, on the other hand, to say that the support is fantastic is still quite a stretch, by any imagination. Three of those games are getting panned by the review community at large (not just IGN), and sure reviews don't mean everything--there'll always be people who can find something fun in even the worst of games, but at the same time reviewers can't be completely ignored. If the majority of people reviewing a game says it's bad....chances are it just might be.

I should probably clarify something: the reason why I started this thread was to express the fact that I had nothing to play for the longest time, then seven games were suddenly released, all of which I planned on renting through gamefly because I genuinely wanted to try them.

However, on the subject of AAA titles, when I do Medacast, one of the things we cover every week is the release list for ALL consoles. First of all, the Wii is the only console to receive 7 titles on one day/week. Second, I get the feeling many people complain about the lack of AAA titles without understanding that there are NO consoles receiving AAA titles right now. It ain't just the Wii: gaming is, in general, in a slump.

In fact, it's accurate to say that, despite the weird control scheme, the Wii generally receives more titles than even the 360, forget the PS3.

I can understand wanting more, but it's the act of wanting more without realizing that NO ONE ELSE has "more" than you do.

[Ian Sane]

"Thus, your standards are ridiculously high, and that doesn't mean you're a more discerning gamer with better tastes. It means that you're a snob who brushes off games he's never played on a system he doesn't even own because he wants something from gaming that it can no longer offer."

Not every game has to be Zelda but this is not a flood of great titles.  If you're impressed by this lineup of games, you're settling.  This is just the typical spurt of mediocrity that happens after a launch.  I wouldn't be impressed by a lineup like this on the NES, SNES, N64 or Gamecube.  I think if the Xbox 360 had this lineup the very people going ga-ga over it now would be making fun of it.  In a couple months the really good stuff will come out.  There will be more first party games and third parties will be releasing more new stuff and everyone will have had more experience and put out better stuff.  If you weren't starved for games you wouldn't give this stuff a second look.  In fact third parties know that which is why they release titles like this now.  This is the only time where year-old ports or games that aren't quite polished yet are accepted and sell well.  It's like how Red Steel sold really well despite control issues.  Because it was launch people gave it more slack.  If it had been released a year later it would have bombed because by that point people will expect more.

Hell I remember some people going crazy over every game released during the first few months of the DS' life.  Now years later when we've seen better that period is not remembered fondly.  When anyone lists the best of the DS they don't focus on that early launch period because they realize that they were overrating everything because they were desperate for anything to play.  Don't wait for the lover of your dreams but don't marry the first person to come along either.

And I find it funny that in the past someone who looked at reviews was considered a smart shopper but once a Nintendo console hits a drought and games become more scarce suddenly every game is unjustly underrated by reviewers and we apparently have to try every game out or we're suckers.  The same thing happened once the Cube release dried up.  Reviews suddenly were bad because the reviews for the one Cube game to come out in a three month span weren't so hot, but dammit that was the only game we got so we decided it was worth our money before it came out.  God forbid we play nothing and find something else to do for a little while rather than overrate mediocre titles.  Note that the best Wii games actually do have good average ratings.  If Zelda was getting low scores then maybe you could say reviews don't mean anything but it got well deserved good scores across the board.  So it's not like some big anti-Wii bias because the Wii game that really deserved the big scores got the big scores.

Honestly if the title of this thread was "some of these games are pretty fun" I wouldn't say anything.  It's the "flood of games" hyperbole that drives me nuts like the "boy our third party support is super great" or when anyone says a system that has been out for a few months is the best system ever.

[NWR_pap64]

The only reason Sony "won" at GDC was because they made more announcements that Nintendo, and that was because of a TECHNICALITY that prevented them from doing so. I am sure that if they were free to announce whatever they wanted it would've overshadowed any announcement Sony made.

Seriously, Home is a neat concept and Little big planet looks cute, but NOTHING worth getting excited about. So if you thought Sony won over Nintendo because of that you should seriously consider your loyalty of companies...

[NWR_pap64]

Quote
Originally posted by: Ian Sane
"Thus, your standards are ridiculously high, and that doesn't mean you're a more discerning gamer with better tastes. It means that you're a snob who brushes off games he's never played on a system he doesn't even own because he wants something from gaming that it can no longer offer."

Not every game has to be Zelda but this is not a flood of great titles.  If you're impressed by this lineup of games, you're settling.  This is just the typical spurt of mediocrity that happens after a launch.  I wouldn't be impressed by a lineup like this on the NES, SNES, N64 or Gamecube.  I think if the Xbox 360 had this lineup the very people going ga-ga over it now would be making fun of it.  In a couple months the really good stuff will come out.  There will be more first party games and third parties will be releasing more new stuff and everyone will have had more experience and put out better stuff.  If you weren't starved for games you wouldn't give this stuff a second look.  In fact third parties know that which is why they release titles like this now.  This is the only time where year-old ports or games that aren't quite polished yet are accepted and sell well.  It's like how Red Steel sold really well despite control issues.  Because it was launch people gave it more slack.  If it had been released a year later it would have bombed because by that point people will expect more.

Hell I remember some people going crazy over every game released during the first few months of the DS' life.  Now years later when we've seen better that period is not remembered fondly.  When anyone lists the best of the DS they don't focus on that early launch period because they realize that they were overrating everything because they were desperate for anything to play.  Don't wait for the lover of your dreams but don't marry the first person to come along either.

And I find it funny that in the past someone who looked at reviews was considered a smart shopper but once a Nintendo console hits a drought and games become more scarce suddenly every game is unjustly underrated by reviewers and we apparently have to try every game out or we're suckers.  The same thing happened once the Cube release dried up.  Reviews suddenly were bad because the reviews for the one Cube game to come out in a three month span weren't so hot, but dammit that was the only game we got so we decided it was worth our money before it came out.  God forbid we play nothing and find something else to do for a little while rather than overrate mediocre titles.  Note that the best Wii games actually do have good average ratings.  If Zelda was getting low scores then maybe you could say reviews don't mean anything but it got well deserved good scores across the board.  So it's not like some big anti-Wii bias because the Wii game that really deserved the big scores got the big scores.

Honestly if the title of this thread was "some of these games are pretty fun" I wouldn't say anything.  It's the "flood of games" hyperbole that drives me nuts like the "boy our third party support is super great" or when anyone says a system that has been out for a few months is the best system ever.

Go buy a Wii, play the games mentioned and then maybe we'll take your argument more seriously...  

Leaving the angst aside, dude, all you are doing is whining and complaining about the games getting some attention simply because they don't meet YOUR standards. You have already confessed that you don't have a Wii and by the way you are acting you WON'T bother with these games.

[jakeOSX]

so i am jumping in late and on ian's side, but here i go anyway.

yes, i am glad there are games coming out, and a bit of them too. I want the Wii section to be so big it drives the PS3 and 360 sections into one isle to make up for the Cube days where the GBA and Cube were stuffed in a back corner.

now. what we have here is perspective. the godfather could be the best game since the 2-bit version of sliced bread and i still wouldn't be interested in it right now. ian is right, most of the list of games out are movie tie-ins and ports from other systems. is that bad? no. but it doesn't make for MUST HAVE games.

that being said, do i enjoy the hell out of need for speed? you know it. call of duty? yup. but i am not going to get MoH or excite truck because i have a first person WW2 shooter and a race car game. i'm looking for something new, something i WANT. as ian said, that will happen in a few months. by christmas time there will be the first gen of really good games. we'll be getting the etneral darkness's and the smash brothers's, those games we'll be talking about in four years when the next gen game system is being talked about.

keep the games coming, yes. but don't expect me to jump in excitement at anything that is put out. not when i have zelda, specktrobes and phoenix wright to keep me occupied. (and pokemon on the way)

[NWR_pap64]

Quote
Originally posted by: jakeOSX
so i am jumping in late and on ian's side, but here i go anyway.

yes, i am glad there are games coming out, and a bit of them too. I want the Wii section to be so big it drives the PS3 and 360 sections into one isle to make up for the Cube days where the GBA and Cube were stuffed in a back corner.

now. what we have here is perspective. the godfather could be the best game since the 2-bit version of sliced bread and i still wouldn't be interested in it right now. ian is right, most of the list of games out are movie tie-ins and ports from other systems. is that bad? no. but it doesn't make for MUST HAVE games.

that being said, do i enjoy the hell out of need for speed? you know it. call of duty? yup. but i am not going to get MoH or excite truck because i have a first person WW2 shooter and a race car game. i'm looking for something new, something i WANT. as ian said, that will happen in a few months. by christmas time there will be the first gen of really good games. we'll be getting the etneral darkness's and the smash brothers's, those games we'll be talking about in four years when the next gen game system is being talked about.

keep the games coming, yes. but don't expect me to jump in excitement at anything that is put out. not when i have zelda, specktrobes and phoenix wright to keep me occupied. (and pokemon on the way)

We are NOT telling you that every game that comes out is WORTH buying or is the best game on the system at the moment. What we are saying is that these are some fun games that are worth TRYING.

I don't care if you buy the Godfather or not or if you give a rat's ass about any Ubi game ever release. What is annoying me about the Nintendo snob argument is that they are quick to shun the games without giving them a proper try AND shunning the fans that are supporting these games and trying them out and genuinely having fun with them. THAT'S what is making me angry about the argument.

So in case you didn't get it the first time...

WHAT WE ARE SAYING:
- That there are a lot of games coming out for the Wii
- The support is really good
- Some of these games are actually fun and worth a try
- In some cases the game are VERY good, better than expected
- You shouldn't buy them if you don't care much for them

WHAT WE ARE NOT SAYING:
- That all of these are uber fantastic games
- That all of them are worth trying
- That this is the most AMAZING support ever seen on the system

[jakeOSX]

sorry, i tried to write a serious response to that, but all i can imagine is the noid jumping up and down screaming your post at me.  

[Smash_Brother]

Quote
Originally posted by: Ian Sane Honestly if the title of this thread was "some of these games are pretty fun" I wouldn't say anything.  It's the "flood of games" hyperbole that drives me nuts like the "boy our third party support is super great" or when anyone says a system that has been out for a few months is the best system ever.

My reason for naming this thread as such was because I went from having nothing I wanted to try to suddenly having an immense backlog of games I wanted to try.

16th Tiger Woods: Always curious to see how motion-sensing sports turn out and this one turned out well.

19th TMNT: Using the PoP engine for a turtles game? Finally, they'll be doing more "ninja" activities instead of the straightforward beat 'em ups.

21st Blazing Angels: Combat flight sim using Wii controls. I definitely wanted to try one of these.

21st Godfather: The game that, ironically, WOULD allay all Ian's fears about the Wii destroying "gamer" games if he played it.

21st Kororinpa: Looks like a brief but fun marble madness-esque game.

21st Cooking Mama: I need to see what all of the fuss is about.

28th MoH: Vanguard: Wiimote + FPS aiming = better than teh sex

So yeah, these may not be AAA material, but that doesn't change the fact that I want to try all of them, hence why it's a "flood" for me.

But seriously, if you buy a Wii, humor me and rent Godfather. It's proof that gamer games benefit IMMENSELY from Wiimote control. I'm dead serious when I say that, after someone has used the Wii controls, they will not, CANNOT go back to either the 360 or PS3 versions. It just can't happen.

That, in my mind, says so much about why the Wii is kicking ass this gen and will continue to do so.

[Ceric]

To be honest about it renting games is not as easy as it was back in the NES game unless your with a subscription service.  I always check the game rental area in Blockbuster or Hollywood when I'm in and it takes them forever to get new games in if they get them at all.

[jakeOSX]

ok, now for the serious reply.

you are particularly animated about this subject. perhaps i should have just let it go, but i'll bite.

you said that the nintendo snobs have high standards in gaming and that is their problem. forgive me if i don't think this makes sense. at $50 a game i can't afford to buy something i'll get bored of in a few days. do i have high standards? depends on what you mean. i require a game to be fun, for me. my version of fun may be different from yours.

example, i was probably one of three people on the planet who loved starfox adventures.

as games get better, will my standards go up as well? probably. tales of symphonia was one of the best RPG's i've ever played. it will be hard to follow that, in my mind. does that mean i won't like other RPG's? no, but it does mean that my bar is higher now.

the question is, i suppose, will i run out and try/buy the first RPG for the wii... well, i'll promise you this, i won't buy it if it sucks. and i don't care who makes it. third party, first party, birthday party, doesn't matter. only thing that matters is the game.

i am not ragging on you for enjoying these games. in fact, i am glad that you enjoy them. i wish i did. i wish there were games i was as excited about as you are about godfather. but there will be. and maybe you won't be excited about them. so we have different tastes, that's fine.

my opinion is that these games are filler. when the 'eternal darkness' of this gen shows up, we'll know. and that is just my opinion.

i am not shunning anyone for liking the games that are out. we are discussing the games, my opinions were about the games, not about the players. you brought the players into the thread with the 'nintendo snob' label. please do not put words into my mouth (figuratively, of course).

[Smash_Brother]

Yeah, I'm trying hard not to push GF, but they're the reason I'll be trying all of these.

[Ceric]

You know what I thought Tales of Symphonia was good but could have been better fleshed out.  Also I couldn't get past the first area of eternal darkness.  Not because of some difficulty just because it wouldn't let me go on.  I seem to find the defective copies of games.

[jakeOSX]

admittedly i never got far in ED (just rented it once) and my opinion of it is based on those few moments and the overall reviews i've read (mainly on this forum). it was mainly an example.

my first game was spy hunter. which i still love. so i know my taste in games is askew. =)

[Adrock]

Quote
Smash_Brother wrote:
Second, I get the feeling many people complain about the lack of AAA titles without understanding that there are NO consoles receiving AAA titles right now. It ain't just the Wii: gaming is, in general, in a slump.

True, but I get the impression that you're lauding the Wii based on the release of these 7 games and none of them are really that big a deal. It's not so much that people are complaining about the lack of AAA titles. Rather, excitement over these titles seems unwarranted. I want to try Cooking Mama, but I wouldn't start a thread about it. I'm glad Wii is getting some releases. It's better than not getting them. However, that's as far as my prasie goes.

Quote
Ceric wrote:
I always check the game rental area in Blockbuster or Hollywood when I'm in and it takes them forever to get new games in if they get them at all.

Hollywood Video's new game rentals generally arrive Friday afternoon and are recieved into the system and put out as soon as possible (at least in my district). So if a game is released on Tuesday or Wednesday and Hollywood gets them, they'll be there that Friday. It's a secret to everybody.

[NWR_pap64]

Quote
Originally posted by: Adrock

Quote
Smash_Brother wrote:
Second, I get the feeling many people complain about the lack of AAA titles without understanding that there are NO consoles receiving AAA titles right now. It ain't just the Wii: gaming is, in general, in a slump.

True, but I get the impression that you're lauding the Wii based on the release of these 7 games and none of them are really that big a deal. It's not so much that people are complaining about the lack of AAA titles. Rather, excitement over these titles seems unwarranted. I want to try Cooking Mama, but I wouldn't start a thread about it. I'm glad Wii is getting some releases. It's better than not getting them. However, that's as far as my prasie goes.

Once again, SB's point was NOT to say "These games are great, you should buy them!". He has more than once stated that the reason he posted this was because he went from having NOTHING to play to looking forward to playing a lot of games on the Wii and that he is excited because TO HIM the Wii controls will add a lot to the experience.

I don't know how to make this anymore clearer. SB cleared it up, I explained it a couple of times already yet you guys keep INSISTING that these aren't great games because of YOUR values when it comes to gaming.

Once again...SB's point is that he is looking forward to a lot of games and was caught by surprise by how many releases are coming his way. Whether you agree with him or not that your problem to deal with.

And forgive my redundancy, but what I am trying to state in this thread is that you shouldn't be hard on some of these games as you never know if one of them will be quite good (kinda like what happened with SB and the Godfather).