Topic: Wii third party game debate heats up.

[Pittbboi]

Oh, this is another can of worms...

I don't see how anyone can say FFXII played itself. I've been through the game twice by now, and I can say that even with full gambits set I was still constantly overriding commands and changing gambits on the fly because what worked for one set of enemies didn't work for another. When you're just leveling up gambits do a wonderful job of taking care of the monotonous--the battles that, in other games, would have only required that we bowl the enemy over with rapid pressing of the X button. But the elite marks, the optional espers, and even the last few storyling bosses require more than just a well-set gambit. It needed some tweaking, I'll admit, but it was a good system.

Though I agree with your comment on Japan. But then, I'm finding that, with each passing year, Japan becomes less and less the absolute when it comes to gaming.

[Mario]

Videogames are for kids. I love kiddie games.

[Shift Key]

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Originally posted by: Pittbboi
When you're just leveling up gambits do a wonderful job of taking care of the monotonous--the battles that, in other games, would have only required that we bowl the enemy over with rapid pressing of the X button. But the elite marks, the optional espers, and even the last few storyling bosses require more than just a well-set gambit. It needed some tweaking, I'll admit, but it was a good system.

Because the concept of leveling up in FF-style RPGs is broken - what they did in the 80s has carried over today, and they still haven't addressed the issue. Just because gambits make leveling up easy, doesn't mean the problem is solved.

[GoldenPhoenix]

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Originally posted by: Pittbboi
GoldenPheonix:

Cut me some slack--that title was just announced today! I didn't know about until about 15 minutes ago. lol

Lol I know, I just thought it was funny that shortly after you said that it was announced.

[Mario]

What's worse

- A little kid being scared of a zombie tearing someones head open and eating it
- An adult scared of a drop of water named Dewey

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I'm still waiting for the traditional, bread-and-butter rpg. The Final Fantasies and Dragon Quests and Blue Dragons...

Buy a DS.

[Pittbboi]

Mario: that's the plan.

But the experiences will always be bigger on consoles. So wanting console rpgs of that nature isn't asking too much.

[Shift Key]

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Originally posted by: Pittbboi
Mario: that's the plan.

But the experiences will always be bigger on consoles. So wanting console rpgs of that nature isn't asking too much.

Bigger? Bigger screens? Bigger graphics? Bigger gameplay lawlcutsceneslawl? I donot understand.

You're asking for the same old stuff. The stuff that was done to death last generation, only with a different plot and same ending? That's the problem.

[UncleBob]

Are Nintendo Fans too hard on third parties?

Yeah.  But to be fair, Nintendo is the best.  And I'm just just saying that because I'm a blind fan-boy (which I am), but there is not a single company out there (third party or otherwise) that has the same track record of successes as games with that red, round Nintendo logo does.

Being a Nintendo fan is like having your own, personal chef - making you wonderful, delicious foods every day.  Third parties would be like anything else, ranging from a night out at a fancy resturant to McDonald's to a bag of Wal*Mart brand dry dog food.  You might be satisfied with what you had elsewhere, but you're always going to compare it to what your chef makes and, probably, wonder how your chef would have done it better.

[GoldenPhoenix]

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Originally posted by: UncleBob
Are Nintendo Fans too hard on third parties?

Yeah.  But to be fair, Nintendo is the best.  And I'm just just saying that because I'm a blind fan-boy (which I am), but there is not a single company out there (third party or otherwise) that has the same track record of successes as games with that red, round Nintendo logo does.

Being a Nintendo fan is like having your own, personal chef - making you wonderful, delicious foods every day.  Third parties would be like anything else, ranging from a night out at a fancy resturant to McDonald's to a bag of Wal*Mart brand dry dog food.  You might be satisfied with what you had elsewhere, but you're always going to compare it to what your chef makes and, probably, wonder how your chef would have done it better.

I think UncleBob speaks the truth, I don't think any company out there quite compares to Nintendo when it comes to quality, memorable titles. Don't get me wrong there are some great developers out there but Nintendo just seems to have the magic touch when it comes to game design, rarely do you see a Nintendo created title that is less than stellar.

[NWR_pap64]

While I love my first party games I believe that third party games are just as important in a console's life.

In fear of sounding like an old record, the more games a system has the more variety it will have. The more variety a system has more fans will be impressed. Fans that are impressed lead to sales.

Also, an advice for Nintendo, third party developers and game companies everywhere (even Sony and MS): Don't always listen to your fans.

While fan feedback is always good, keep in mind that most of the time they don't even know what they want (case in point, fans wanted more third party games, now they could care less for them). Just follow your gut instinct and do it, no matter what the fans may think.

Hell, sometimes some of the best things in gaming came from decisions the fans didn't want or approved at first (I am looking at you, Wii Sports!).

[GoldenPhoenix]

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Originally posted by: pap64
While I love my first party games I believe that third party games are just as important in a console's life.

In fear of sounding like an old record, the more games a system has the more variety it will have. The more variety a system has more fans will be impressed. Fans that are impressed lead to sales.

Also, an advice for Nintendo, third party developers and game companies everywhere (even Sony and MS): Don't always listen to your fans.

While fan feedback is always good, keep in mind that most of the time they don't even know what they want (case in point, fans wanted more third party games, now they could care less for them). Just follow your gut instinct and do it, no matter what the fans may think.

Hell, sometimes some of the best things in gaming came from decisions the fans didn't want or approved at first (I am looking at you, Wii Sports!).

Pap is right too, it may sound cliche but many times a company has to tell the customer what they want. Heck if companies only did what the customer wanted we'd probably still be playing roll the stone tire down the hillside into neighboring village.  

[UncleBob]

I've never complained about wanting third party titles (Except, maybe, Dead Rising before it came out...)  If anything, I complain about the third party title after I've bought it... but more often than not, I don't complain and just don't buy any more of those games.

And, again, Nintendo has pretty much supported two generations of systems with their own games - and they made crap-tons of money doing it.  Remember, the video game market started out without the intentions of "third party" developers.  If you bought an Atari, Intellivision or Colecovision, then you bought their games (with a few exceptions).  Could a company seriously get by with this "First Party Only" format today?  I dunno.  But if there was to be a company that could get by with it, it'd be Nintendo.

[Djunknown]

Let's see cool exclusive 3rd party games that I know of:

A)No more Heroes
B)Unannounced project by Suda 51
C)Another unannounced project by Suda 51
D)Sadness
E)SSX Blur *as of this writing*
F)Sonic and the secret Rings
G)Resident Evil Umbrella Chronicles

Other spiffy 3rd party games that everyone else has that we finally get:
A)Guitar Hero*plus guitar*
B)DDR Hottest Party *w/dance pad*
C)Manhunt 2

That's just ten titles of the top of my head. That's $500 *plus peripherals* (more for our overseas fans...) right there. How many posters here are made of money? If you are, you're excused. If not, that's just a mere sampling of almost guaranteed fun, your mileage may vary of course...

The editorial itself makes some good points, save for the last gen ports bit. Ubisoft's anxious support is appreciated, but the games have to be more than just average to make it count.

Lets do this: Name any original/exclusive 3rd party games you can think of, whether they're out or in development and see what happens.

[Pittbboi]

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Bigger? Bigger screens? Bigger graphics? Bigger gameplay lawlcutsceneslawl? I donot understand.

Bigger everything. I'm just saying there's more wiggle room on a console.
Geez, all I said was it's not so much to ask for more console RPGs of the traditional variety. Calm yourself.

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You're asking for the same old stuff. The stuff that was done to death last generation, only with a different plot and same ending? That's the problem.

And no, I'm not asking for the same old stuff. I'll welcome new gaming ideas with open arms if they appeal to me, but that's no reason to do away with the tried and true. Nintendo fans especially can't complain of what was done to death last gen, because they weren't done to death of a Nintendo console. I mean, if you want to get technical, Fire Emblem's been done to death, the series right down to character art and theme has remained relatively unchanged for a while now--but it's still a great series.

There are RPGs that are doing lots of new things while still being considered traditional. Blue Dragon's getting great reviews. And like the game or hate it, there's no denying that FFXII is a lot of firsts for the series. There's still plenty of ground-breaking room in tried and true genres. So don't even pretend to think you know what I want.

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Let's see cool exclusive 3rd party games that I know of:

A)No more Heroes
B)Unannounced project by Suda 51
C)Another unannounced project by Suda 51
D)Sadness
E)SSX Blur *as of this writing*
F)Sonic and the secret Rings
G)Resident Evil Umbrella Chronicles

No offense, but B, C, and D...how can you list those as being "cool" when there's next to nothing known about them?

[Shift Key]

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Originally posted by: Pittbboi
wiggle room

Hahahahahaha what a stupid term. Handwaving for the sake of handwaving doesn't make your point valid.

Quote
Originally posted by: Pittbboi
There are RPGs that are doing lots of new things while still being considered traditional. Blue Dragon's getting great reviews. And like the game or hate it, there's no denying that FFXII is a lot of firsts for the series. There's still plenty of ground-breaking room in tried and true genres.

Yeah, there sure is plenty of room when you only name two games currently on the market. Maybe I haven't been keeping up with the movings and shakings in the RPG genre, but it seems like the mechanisms haven't changed much since the days of FFVII and earlier.

Sure, throw some new features in there, shiny things and bigger cutscenes, ooooh innovation. And the RPG fans eat it up without a complaint or a thought that things could be better. That's my problem.

Its hard to even get enthusiastic about RPGs when the only one I really want to see a sequel to isn't even planned sup golden sun, come back soon k?

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Originally posted by: Pittbboi
So don't even pretend to think you know what I want.

When you stop the constant hyperbole maybe I'll care about what you want.

 

[Bill Aurion]

Where's the:

H) Dewey
I) Treasure Island Z
J) Dragon Quest Swords

[18 Days]

I believe the critera was "cool" not "lame" Bill.

[Bill Aurion]

Sorry, I don't believe you have a game...

[18 Days]

Oh man what comeback, why don't you jsut call me homosexual next time.

[Bill Aurion]

Sorry, I don't believe you're a homosexu...Wait...

[Pittbboi]

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Hahahahahaha what a stupid term. Handwaving for the sake of handwaving doesn't make your point valid.

What, that currently more can be done on consoles than on handhelds? That's not so much my point as it is a fact.

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Yeah, there sure is plenty of room when you only name two games currently on the market. Maybe I haven't been keeping up with the movings and shakings in the RPG genre, but it seems like the mechanisms haven't changed much since the days of FFVII and earlier.

I don't have to list every RPG on the market to make my point. RPGs continue to be made, they continue to get good reviews, they continue to introduce new concepts, and they continue to sell. The genre may be stale for you, but isn't for a lot of people. And I'll greet new ideas and concepts as they come along, but the RPG genre as it stands now, still attracts a lot of people.

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Sure, throw some new features in there, shiny things and bigger cutscenes, ooooh innovation. And the RPG fans eat it up without a complaint or a thought that things could be better. That's my problem.

How about new battle systems, innovations to the world map, and interesting storylines? You don't have to freaking reinvent the wheel to make a good RPG. And of course things could be better; things can ALWAYS be better. There are very few games out there that you can't say that about.  

[NWR_pap64]

Quote
Originally posted by: GoldenPhoenix

Quote
Originally posted by: pap64
While I love my first party games I believe that third party games are just as important in a console's life.

In fear of sounding like an old record, the more games a system has the more variety it will have. The more variety a system has more fans will be impressed. Fans that are impressed lead to sales.

Also, an advice for Nintendo, third party developers and game companies everywhere (even Sony and MS): Don't always listen to your fans.

While fan feedback is always good, keep in mind that most of the time they don't even know what they want (case in point, fans wanted more third party games, now they could care less for them). Just follow your gut instinct and do it, no matter what the fans may think.

Hell, sometimes some of the best things in gaming came from decisions the fans didn't want or approved at first (I am looking at you, Wii Sports!).

Pap is right too, it may sound cliche but many times a company has to tell the customer what they want. Heck if companies only did what the customer wanted we'd probably still be playing roll the stone tire down the hillside into neighboring village.

There's a reason why the phrase "the customer is always right" is so full of it.

I mean, had the Wii been a HUGE success had Nintendo listened to their fans and taken Wii Sports out of the bundle and lower it to 200 dollars? Consoles would've been sold, yes, but people would've ignored Wii Sports because it was seen as a tech demo.

[18 Days]

listen up Pittboi. Me and Bill had derailed this thread and here you are trying to save the day. NO I WONT STAND FOR THIS! Go away!

[Bill Aurion]

WE WILL SUCCESS 18 DAYS! WE WILL SUCCESS

[IceCold]

I dunno about you guys, but I'm salivating at the prospect of Elf Bowling Wii..