Author Topic: Thinking about it, New Super Mario Bros. wasn't that great...  (Read 27479 times)

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Offline NWR_pap64

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Thinking about it, New Super Mario Bros. wasn't that great...
« on: January 22, 2007, 10:22:56 PM »
Before anyone says anything, I've played nearly all of the 2D, platforming Mario games. I grew up with Mario. Super Mario Bros.  on the NES was one of my first games ever, greatly enjoyed Super Mario Bros. 2 and 3, played the HELL out of Super Mario World on the SNES, ate up the remade classics in Mario All Stars and loved Yoshi's island to death.

I've noticed that people have been going crazy over the game, to the point where many gaming publications and websites have gave it Game of the year nods and awards.

While I thought the game was really fun, I don't see it as being GOTY material nor I think its the best 2D Mario game to date.

First of all, the one thing that made the Mario games really addicting, frustrating and fun were the levels themselves. Simply put, they are some of the best, challenging and most inventive stages ever seen in any videogame, with Mario 3 and Mario World showcasing the best of them all. Compared to them, the levels in New Super Mario Bros. feel more like they were made by fans rather than experienced level designers.

Seriously, they feel as if they used a fan made level editor and put the whole thing together. That's another thing, people might say that some of the classic Mario elements, like collecting the red coins and such are tributes to the older games, but IMHO, they feel as if Nintendo relied too much on the past rather than creating new elements for the game. Its a brand new game, Nintendo! Couldn't you have been more creative?

Going back to the level design, simply put, they are too easy and too straightforward. First of all, I KNOW that the game was made to channel the classic gameplay of the original Mario Bros., but even then the game offered a lot of challenge and edge of your seat gameplay. The classic Mario games featured levels that tested your reflexes, your patience and skills. They featured jumps that needed a lot of reflexes to jump over, conveniently placed enemies plagued your way and challenges that either pleased you or frustrated the hell out of you. Again, Mario Bros. 3 and Mario world showcase this the best. So compared to that the levels in NSMB are too easy and too straightforward. They lack the imagination, cleverness and challenge the older games provided.

The game is also very easy and extremely forgiving. It is willing to give you extra lives as if they were running out of style, while in the older games getting an extra life was a blessing, and getting more than that actually required a lot of timing to pull off. It is also too short. You are more than likely to beat all of the levels on your first run. Again, the older games actually required you to look deep into it and discover the hidden levels in clever ways.

As for the extra challenges, getting all 3 gold coins in each level is hard, yes, but compared to trying to find and complete ALL of the secret stages in Mario World, its a JOKE.

Before I get stoned to death, I enjoyed the game for what it was. I know the game was meant to be a fun, easy to get into game and according to the sales, it works greatly. The multiplayer was great, I had a lot of fun playing this with S_B, Cap and other friends and is easily the best part of the game. But what I am saying is that this isn't truly the best game in the 2D Mario games and thus I think doesn't deserve the insane hype it has gotten.

I just hope that with the great sales of the game it encourages Nintendo to go back to the 2D formula and actually experiment further with it.

Nintendo did good, but they could've done BETTER.
Pedro Hernandez
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Offline KDR_11k

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RE: Thinking about it, New Super Mario Bros. wasn't that great...
« Reply #1 on: January 23, 2007, 12:05:40 AM »
I think Nintendo generally overdoes it with the cameos of elements from older games that don't really fit, the red coins aren't the only example. For example how in every Zelda game Ganon is behind all of it no matter who was the main villain for 95% of the game. They seem to think they have some obligation towards their fans to include certain elements and shoehorn them into another context if necessary. That's one of the reasons I'd prefer if Nintendo didn't use its franchises because these cameos often hurt the games.

Offline Mario

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RE: Thinking about it, New Super Mario Bros. wasn't that great...
« Reply #2 on: January 23, 2007, 01:12:39 AM »
If you want more challenge - http://www.nintendoworldreport.com/forums/messageview.cfm?catid=5&threadid=16739

This is still my favourite game on DS, I like it so much that it's actually still the last DS game i've bought, I still play it. The gameplay in this is incredibly smooth and top-notch, it feels heaps better than SMB3 and World to me. I don't know if it's my favourite Mario game over the original SMB but the multiplayer might just push it over the edge, it is a ton of fun and you can just keep playing over and over again.

Offline Artimus

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RE: Thinking about it, New Super Mario Bros. wasn't that great...
« Reply #3 on: January 23, 2007, 01:41:50 AM »
It suffers from a lack of personality and originality, but it's a very strong title. View it as a direct sequel to the original SMB and it makes more sense.

Offline NWR_pap64

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RE:Thinking about it, New Super Mario Bros. wasn't that great...
« Reply #4 on: January 23, 2007, 03:26:23 AM »
Quote

Originally posted by: Artimus
It suffers from a lack of personality and originality, but it's a very strong title. View it as a direct sequel to the original SMB and it makes more sense.


I agree about the lack of personality and originality. I'll also agree that its a solid Mario title. It just that I didn't feel the same enthusiasm that some of my friends felt when they first played it. I actually felt unmotivated to finish it and took me a while before I finally did it. I wasn't as hooked as some people were. Right now the game is collecting dust as I never went back to it after I finished it way back in summer. I've replayed all of the original Mario games like crazy, but NSMB failed to do that.

Maybe I had my hopes a bit too high or something...I mean, NSMB was the first 2D Mario title released in nearly a decade. Nintendo could've created a massive 2D game using some new technology and bring new ideas that couldn't have been implemented in the 80s and 90s. This was their chance to shine! But for some reason they wimped out and decided to do a "safe" game.

I may not have liked it as much as some people did, but it was a strong title and a system seller. Like I mentioned, hopefully the success of the game will encourage Nintendo to do NSMB 2 and experiment further with it.
Pedro Hernandez
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Offline Ian Sane

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RE: Thinking about it, New Super Mario Bros. wasn't that great...
« Reply #5 on: January 23, 2007, 04:56:32 AM »
I think the problem with New Super Mario Bros is that ironically it isn't very "new" at all.  Like others have mentioned it's too "safe" and has too many elements from other games.  I've noticed that Nintendo has crossed a point where a lot of their sequels have become too predictable and rely way too much on nostalgia.  They seem to have forgotten that the reason those games were so great was because they pushed things forward.  There was no set blueprint or formula.  Sure there was a core gameplay or theme but that was it.  There were no given enemies or areas or bosses.  New settings and characters could be introduced and they would be instantly accepted.  It's like they think Yoshi, for example, was great because he was Yoshi.  He was great in Super Mario World because it was new and different and added new concepts to Mario.  That's why Yoshi worked in Super Mario World but not Super Mario Sunshine.  In one game he was an exciting new concept and in another he was just a reference to an earlier game that Nintendo seemed to think the fans expected to be there.

Though some of it is the fans' fault.  Often when people talk about sequels they want to see they mention all the things they want and most of it is is just the same stuff they've had before.  But fans often don't really know what they want.  Nintendo should know that when a fan says "I want Yoshi in a game" what they really mean is "I want something as magical as Yoshi was in Super Mario World".  They, like Nintendo, are mistaking the actual character for what gave them that great feeling in the past when in reality it is what the character represents that was so magical - a new idea that is so well designed that it instantly fits.

Nintendo is suffering this "nostaligia" design problem with virtually all their titles.  Twilight Princess is fantastic but it has WAY too many elements taken straight from Ocarina of Time.  You don't have to always have Gorons and Zoras.  Prior to Ocarina of Time there was no such thing as Gorons.  Stuff like that.

Offline SixthAngel

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RE: Thinking about it, New Super Mario Bros. wasn't that great...
« Reply #6 on: January 23, 2007, 05:20:03 AM »
Well the game is called New Super Mario Bros. not Super Mario 4 because it is a throwback to the first Mario Bros.  The game is not supposed to be and never was supposed to be anything but revisting the original Mario style with only a few things added.  I too would have liked a bit more difficulty (fireflower should not let you take extra damage) on some levels but that is a problem I have with almost every game made now so its hardly worth mention.  I really liked the levels and how they place enemies in some parts at strategic distances so you can hop from one to the next if you have the right speed and sometimes just keep going if your good.

Offline vudu

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RE:Thinking about it, New Super Mario Bros. wasn't that great...
« Reply #7 on: January 23, 2007, 06:02:09 AM »
Quote

Originally posted by: pap64
While I thought the game was really fun, I don't see it as being GOTY material nor I think its the best 2D Mario game to date.
I agree; it's not the best 2D Mario game to date.  However, it is the best 2D Mario game released in 2006.  That's why it's GOTY material.
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Offline Ian Sane

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RE: Thinking about it, New Super Mario Bros. wasn't that great...
« Reply #8 on: January 23, 2007, 06:30:28 AM »
"Well the game is called New Super Mario Bros. not Super Mario 4 because it is a throwback to the first Mario Bros. The game is not supposed to be and never was supposed to be anything but revisting the original Mario style with only a few things added."

I see this more as a universal Nintendo problem though.  I think if it was called Super Mario 4 it would still be the exact same game.  Plus I'd argue that the first Mario sidescroller to come out in over ten years should be a little bit more than just a throwback to another game.

Offline NWR_pap64

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RE:Thinking about it, New Super Mario Bros. wasn't that great...
« Reply #9 on: January 23, 2007, 08:15:47 AM »
Quote

Originally posted by: Ian Sane
"Well the game is called New Super Mario Bros. not Super Mario 4 because it is a throwback to the first Mario Bros. The game is not supposed to be and never was supposed to be anything but revisting the original Mario style with only a few things added."

I see this more as a universal Nintendo problem though.  I think if it was called Super Mario 4 it would still be the exact same game.  Plus I'd argue that the first Mario sidescroller to come out in over ten years should be a little bit more than just a throwback to another game.


I think you pretty much summed up my feelings of the game, Ian.

It was really fun and like I said, it was a rock solid title that brought back classic Mario gaming to the masses and features great multiplayer modes.

But like you said, they should've done more with the game that is the first 2D game released since Yoshi's island.
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Offline nitsu niflheim

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RE: Thinking about it, New Super Mario Bros. wasn't that great...
« Reply #10 on: January 23, 2007, 08:23:21 AM »
I just with the game had a better save system.  Portable games should have user friendly save systems.
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Offline IceCold

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RE:Thinking about it, New Super Mario Bros. wasn't that great...
« Reply #11 on: January 23, 2007, 08:32:24 AM »
*sigh* Nothing like beating a dead horse..
Quote

Originally posted by: vudu
Quote

Originally posted by: pap64
While I thought the game was really fun, I don't see it as being GOTY material nor I think its the best 2D Mario game to date.
I agree; it's not the best 2D Mario game to date.  However, it is the best 2D Mario game released in 2006.  That's why it's GOTY material.
Seriously - Super Mario Bros 3 and World are two of the best games ever - and while I don't think think NSMB is better than them, it's still a damn good game. It's my favourite DS game by far, and it definitely deserves handheld GOTY.
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Offline SixthAngel

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RE:Thinking about it, New Super Mario Bros. wasn't that great...
« Reply #12 on: January 23, 2007, 08:38:27 AM »
Quote

Originally posted by: Ian Sane
I see this more as a universal Nintendo problem though.  I think if it was called Super Mario 4 it would still be the exact same game.


That is pure speculation.  The fact is Nintendo told you exactly what you were getting with this game by calling it New Super Mario Brothers.  They didn't call it 4 because it wasn't.  This is more of a I want Mario 4 thread.  I would even argue that Mario sidescrollers have been gone for so long that a throwback game is LOOONG do and makes far more sense then a 2d sequel to a game that is over 10 years old.  

Offline NWR_pap64

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RE:Thinking about it, New Super Mario Bros. wasn't that great...
« Reply #13 on: January 23, 2007, 08:47:46 AM »
Quote

Originally posted by: IceCold
*sigh* Nothing like beating a dead horse..
Quote

Originally posted by: vudu
Quote

Originally posted by: pap64
While I thought the game was really fun, I don't see it as being GOTY material nor I think its the best 2D Mario game to date.
I agree; it's not the best 2D Mario game to date.  However, it is the best 2D Mario game released in 2006.  That's why it's GOTY material.
Seriously - Super Mario Bros 3 and World are two of the best games ever - and while I don't think think NSMB is better than them, it's still a damn good game. It's my favourite DS game by far, and it definitely deserves handheld GOTY.


Once again, I never said that the game was bad. The game was indeed very fun, rock solid and with a really fun multiplayer.

Also, forgive me if I sound like I am putting down anyone that greatly enjoyed the game. I ain't. I won't deny that the game has a lot of appeal and fans will not be able to resist. I'm just saying that in my eyes it wasn't enough and I wish they had done something more with it.
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Offline ShyGuy

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RE: Thinking about it, New Super Mario Bros. wasn't that great...
« Reply #14 on: January 23, 2007, 08:48:52 AM »
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RE: Thinking about it, New Super Mario Bros. wasn't that great...
« Reply #15 on: January 23, 2007, 09:15:45 AM »
New site name change to EmoSuicideReport.com confirmed?

Considering NSMB was, what, the 2nd or 3rd best selling game of the year (somewhere in the top 5), Nintendo will hopefully make another new 2D Mario game and that will be one that brings back the imagination, the magic and the challenge with a fierce holy vengeance.

But while the game pales in comparison to the Marios of yore, it looks rather good when compared to Yoshi's Island DS, aka An Exercise In Frustration.  

Offline vudu

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RE:Thinking about it, New Super Mario Bros. wasn't that great...
« Reply #16 on: January 23, 2007, 09:16:34 AM »
Quote

Originally posted by: ShyGuy
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Why must all things be so bright? Why can things not appear only in hues of brown! I am so serious about this! Dull colors are the future! The next generation! I will never accept a world with such bright colors! It is far too childish! I will rage against your cheery palette with my last breath!

Offline Ian Sane

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RE: Thinking about it, New Super Mario Bros. wasn't that great...
« Reply #17 on: January 23, 2007, 09:39:08 AM »
"Considering NSMB was, what, the 2nd or 3rd best selling game of the year (somewhere in the top 5), Nintendo will hopefully make another new 2D Mario game and that will be one that brings back the imagination, the magic and the challenge with a fierce holy vengeance."

Why would Nintendo do that?  If anything the high sales just demonstrates to them that there's enough demand for a new Mario sidescroller that they can heavily rely on nostalgia and re-using themes from the older games and get away with it.

"I would even argue that Mario sidescrollers have been gone for so long that a throwback game is LOOONG do and makes far more sense then a 2d sequel to a game that is over 10 years old."

I don't see that logic at all.  If anything I've waited long enough to get something more.  New Super Mario Bros is like a band not releasing an album for ten years and then coming back with "Greatest Hits Live".  Yeah I'm a big fan of the band and it's still a damn good listen that was worth buying but it isn't really what I was waiting for.

I still like the game and it is my favourite DS game but a little too many Nintendo sequels like that and I'm going to get pretty bored pretty quick.  

Offline hudsonhawk

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RE:Thinking about it, New Super Mario Bros. wasn't that great...
« Reply #18 on: January 23, 2007, 09:52:09 AM »
Quote

Originally posted by: Ian Sane


I don't see that logic at all.  If anything I've waited long enough to get something more.  New Super Mario Bros is like a band not releasing an album for ten years and then coming back with "Greatest Hits Live".  Yeah I'm a big fan of the band and it's still a damn good listen that was worth buying but it isn't really what I was waiting for.


That's a great metaphor, and exactly how I felt about it.  It's ultimately a forgettable game, and that's not something I can say about any of the other Mario games, Sunshine included (which I neither loved nor hated, but I will definitely remember).

Quote

I still like the game and it is my favourite DS game but a little too many Nintendo sequels like that and I'm going to get pretty bored pretty quick.


See, it's not even in my top 10 DS games.  It's not even the best Mario game on the system - I know it's a port, but I'd rather play Mario 64 DS any day of the week.

I will concede though, that Yoshi's Island 2 made this look like a goddamned classic.

Offline SixthAngel

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RE: Thinking about it, New Super Mario Bros. wasn't that great...
« Reply #19 on: January 23, 2007, 10:00:02 AM »
Bands that don't release albums for a while, usually because they broke up release greatest hits albums still.  I bought a real old band's greatest hits album a few weeks ago.  Mario broke up with 2d and he just released his greatest hits for fans and a new audience who missed it.

To claim its mainly for nostalgia purposes is ridiculous because there are well over ten years before the last 2d Mario game means there are A LOT of people who have never tried the simplistic fun of mario 1 style.  The DS is all about anyone being able to play.  That is exemplified by the extra items being simple bonuses with obvious abilities.  There aren't a ton of suits with strange abilities, everything is mainly back to just being mario.

Offline Smoke39

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RE: Thinking about it, New Super Mario Bros. wasn't that great...
« Reply #20 on: January 23, 2007, 10:10:39 AM »
NSMB isn't analogous to a greatest hits album, because it's not the classic Mario.  It's a new game with lame level design, inferior handling, and dull presentation.  It's like if they rereleased some old songs remixed to sound more like some more contemporary style.  Maybe it sounds okay, but it lacks what made the original special.
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Offline Ian Sane

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RE: Thinking about it, New Super Mario Bros. wasn't that great...
« Reply #21 on: January 23, 2007, 10:29:07 AM »
"NSMB isn't analogous to a greatest hits album, because it's not the classic Mario."

Okay, how about this?  NSMB is like those AC/DC albums released in the mid-80's.  Listenable if you like the style and technically all new songs but very unessential and forgettable.

One thing Nintendo kind of has going against them is that Mario has been pretty damn essential.  If someone stole my copies of Super Mario Sunshine or NSMB I would be pissed off but wouldn't rush out to replace them.  But if they took Super Mario World I would start looking for another copy that day.  I guess it's a lot like The Lost Levels or the Super Mario Land games.  Those are Mario games and they're fun and are worth playing if you're a fan but they aren't the titles you suddenly get an urge to revisit every once in a while.  If you had a hypothetical dessert island scenario those aren't the Mario titles that would get priority.

Offline Arbok

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RE: Thinking about it, New Super Mario Bros. wasn't that great...
« Reply #22 on: January 23, 2007, 10:43:54 AM »
Nintendo versus people's nostalgia... a losing battle it seems...
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Offline Deguello

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RE: Thinking about it, New Super Mario Bros. wasn't that great...
« Reply #23 on: January 23, 2007, 01:50:40 PM »
New Super Mario Bros. is fantastic.  End of discussion.  Coming in with expectations of dethroning SMB3 or SMW or SM 64 or whatever creates a negative predisposition and a magnification of flaws that the nostalgic games in question bear in higher numbers.  In short, you ruined it for yourself and now everybody has to bear the brunt of your silly complaints of it not being new enough or it not being exactly like SMB1 or whatever dichotomous trap is set for a game.  This thread gets a thumbs down.
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Offline Smoke39

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RE: Thinking about it, New Super Mario Bros. wasn't that great...
« Reply #24 on: January 23, 2007, 03:45:55 PM »
I didn't expect it to dethrone any of the old games.  I expected it to be a fun throwback to the old games.  Not much new, lots of nostalgic references.  The developers themselves created this expectation, so I don't think it's unreasonable.  But comparisons to the older Mario games asside, the game is still just not very interesting.  Yeah, I would have preferred if it were 2D, and if Mario controlled more like the old games, and so on.  But it ultimately comes down to the level design just being simple, which I found excedingly boring.
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