Topic: Wii Third Party Domination

[Smash_Brother]

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Originally posted by: Kairon We're not saying you have to buy the game. We're saying you have to give it a chance insteasd of dismissing it outright and having your eyes simply glaze over when you see it on the shelf. Nintendo gamers are WAY too used to seeing only Nintendo games, and that sort of prejudice at the store shelf is bad for gaming, bad for business, bad for third parties, and even bad for Nintendo.

This is why I recommend Gamefly: rent these games with little risk that they'll suck.

I've found quite a few 3rd party games to be pretty decent and worth the time to play them. You're robbing yourself of some fun experiences if you outright ignore them.

[UncleBob]

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Originally posted by: Kairon

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Originally posted by: UncleBob
I'm not "dissing" third parties or their fans, per say.  I'm just saying that I'm sick of this "If you want third party support, you have to buy their games, even if they're crap." additude that some people have.  Like I said in the eariler post - if a third party wants me to buy their game, they simply have to make a *good* game on a system that I want it on.  I don't think that's too much to ask.

We're not saying you have to buy the game. We're saying you have to give it a chance insteasd of dismissing it outright and having your eyes simply glaze over when you see it on the shelf. Nintendo gamers are WAY too used to seeing only Nintendo games, and that sort of prejudice at the store shelf is bad for gaming, bad for business, bad for third parties, and even bad for Nintendo.

~Carmine "Cai" M. Red
Kairon@aol.com

Third parties have no one to blame but themselves on this.  Look at Super Monkey Ball - after One and Two, I figured I'd buy any game with the Monkey Ball name on it. (Hell, I even have Monkey Ball action figures!).  Then SEGA goes and throws crap out there like the DS game and Super Monkey Ball Adventure and now I refused to touch Banana Blitz with a ten foot pole.

Don't give me Shadow the Hedgehog and Sonic Heros and expect me to get excited because you announce a new Sonic game.  I can only be burned so many times before I realize that the limited gaming time and money I have is better spent elsewhere.

[Ian Sane]

"There has NEVER been bad support for a console maker."

Should I say "not great support" instead?  Or "weak support"?  What wording do you deem appropriate for third party support that just isn't all that hot?  Obviously I think third party support of any kind is better than none at all.  But in general I don't think the support the Wii is getting is that great yet.  It certainly isn't at a point where I would say that things are fine as is as we don't have to worry about everything.

Square Enix's interest is good but we still haven't had a really major title annouced for the Wii from them yet.  Spinoffs don't matter.  When a REAL Final Fantasy game is annouced as an exclusive then we're getting somewhere.  It's like how when they annouced the new REAL Dragon Quest game was going to the DS.  That was a big deal.

SNK is on board which is great and they seem to want to focus on the Wii.  They're not a top level third party but their support is significant none the less.  They make good games and have a hardcore fanbase so they'll be good as one of those niche hardcore developers that makes games that a group of hardcore gamers really likes but lacks major selling power.  Stuff like this is always great because it forces fans of the company to climb on board.  The original Playstation really benefited from having all sorts of hardcore genres and franchises locked up.  That sort of thing provides true variety.  It's what "something for everyone" really means, unlike Nintendo's "make everything kid friendly" approach.

Tecmo and Konami seem reasonably interested but we haven't got anything really big annouced from them yet.  Konami's most anticipated game is in the works for the PS3.

Capcom seems quite sour on the Wii which sucks.

Ubisoft and EA are really interested but they release games on every platform so it's not that big of a deal.  No one buys a console for EA or Ubisoft games.  Fans of those types of games buy the market leader because they just assume that Madden or Splinter Cell is going to show up on it.  I guess in this case the Wii will benefit because it's selling so well.  But without other third parties the Wii won't be able to keep it's momentum.  It still has to beat the Xbox 360 in North America for EA and Ubisoft type gamers to choose the Wii as their main console.

Manhunt 2 is very promising but we still need to see how far that goes.  We need GTA.  We need some serious attention from Rockstar.  But just having their support at all is a big improvement.

Virtua Fighter 5 is on the PS3 and will come out on the X360.  A big game getting released on every console but Nintendo's.  That's the Cube's life story.  If that sort of thing becomes common then the Wii doesn't have healthy third party support.  It needs to get those games.

There is a lot of potential but what we know is in the works right now isn't that great.  This isn't a good third party lineup...yet.  We need to see how things go over the next year.  We need to see if the Wii still sells when anyone can go to the store and buy one.  We need to see what else Nintendo can do with the remote.  Lots of stuff is still ahead.  To think that this is great or even good would be settling.  If this is the best we ever get then in a year everyone going ga-ga over the third party support is going to flip (again) to bashing third parties because they never give us anything good.

During the Gamecube drought people were making f*cking Cel Damage out to be something worthwhile.

[Kairon]

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Originally posted by: UncleBob
Third parties have no one to blame but themselves on this.  Look at Super Monkey Ball - after One and Two, I figured I'd buy any game with the Monkey Ball name on it. (Hell, I even have Monkey Ball action figures!).  Then SEGA goes and throws crap out there like the DS game and Super Monkey Ball Adventure and now I refused to touch Banana Blitz with a ten foot pole.

Don't give me Shadow the Hedgehog and Sonic Heros and expect me to get excited because you announce a new Sonic game.  I can only be burned so many times before I realize that the limited gaming time and money I have is better spent elsewhere.

Well... okay. Give third parties a chance EXCEPT SEGA. lol

... but Sonic: SR is still pretty neat. Just sayin'.

~Carmine "Cai" M. Red
Kairon@aol.com

[NWR_pap64]

Ian, Dragon quest Monsters Joker for the DS, a spin off of the main franchise, RAPIDLY became a million seller in Japan.

The DQ series is a very important staple in Japan, so strong that even official DQ socks sell like hot cakes. DQ Swords is bound to sell greatly, or at the very least sell around 400,000 copies.

It's true that the series isn't that popular in the US, but Square is working that that. They started advertising the series in the US with DQ VIII. They almost promoted it as being as epic as the Final Fantasy games, and its my understanding that it did quite well.

And with DQ IX on the DS don't be surprised if all DQ games become Nintendo only.

So don't underestimate Square's support right now.

And I agree, you guys are setting your hopes WAY too high.

Instead of just bitching or question every game out and paint a drab picture, just ENJOY the games!

Seriously, the skeptical, bitter Nintendo fanboy act is SO 1996...  

[Adrock]

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Ian Sane wrote:
There is a lot of potential but what we know is in the works right now isn't that great. This isn't a good third party lineup...yet.

That's what I've been saying...... though some games are looking pretty great, namely Dragon Quest Swords and No More Heroes. Wii's 3rd party lineup is better than Gamecube's was 5 years ago, but it's still pretty spotty.

[UncleBob]

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Originally posted by: Kairon

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Originally posted by: UncleBob
Third parties have no one to blame but themselves on this.  Look at Super Monkey Ball - after One and Two, I figured I'd buy any game with the Monkey Ball name on it. (Hell, I even have Monkey Ball action figures!).  Then SEGA goes and throws crap out there like the DS game and Super Monkey Ball Adventure and now I refused to touch Banana Blitz with a ten foot pole.

Don't give me Shadow the Hedgehog and Sonic Heros and expect me to get excited because you announce a new Sonic game.  I can only be burned so many times before I realize that the limited gaming time and money I have is better spent elsewhere.

Well... okay. Give third parties a chance EXCEPT SEGA. lol

... but Sonic: SR is still pretty neat. Just sayin'.

~Carmine "Cai" M. Red
Kairon@aol.com

I'd like to, but then they'll go and do something pissy like make Soul Caliber 3 a PS2 exclusive.

You know, when I got my GCN component cables in, the first game I tried was Soul Caliber 2?  And I'm not even a huge fan of these types of games.

Anywhoo, think of it as food.  Let's say you enjoy McDonald's on occasion.  And let's say there's a locally owned resturant in town that... well... you've never been fond of.  In fact, the last two times you ate there, you got food poisioning.  So, both McDonald's and this local joint start selling a new chicken sandwich... Now, you're on a diet, so you only eat out once a week - which one are you going to try?  Are you going to go with the safe place that you've been happy with all along, or are you going to support the smaller, local business just so you can say you're giving them a chance?

[GoldenPhoenix]

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Originally posted by: Kairon

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Originally posted by: UncleBob
Third parties have no one to blame but themselves on this.  Look at Super Monkey Ball - after One and Two, I figured I'd buy any game with the Monkey Ball name on it. (Hell, I even have Monkey Ball action figures!).  Then SEGA goes and throws crap out there like the DS game and Super Monkey Ball Adventure and now I refused to touch Banana Blitz with a ten foot pole.

Don't give me Shadow the Hedgehog and Sonic Heros and expect me to get excited because you announce a new Sonic game.  I can only be burned so many times before I realize that the limited gaming time and money I have is better spent elsewhere.

Well... okay. Give third parties a chance EXCEPT SEGA. lol

... but Sonic: SR is still pretty neat. Just sayin'.

~Carmine "Cai" M. Red
Kairon@aol.com

That is if you like Kirby Tilt and Tumble, or any other games of that nature. Hehe

[Smash_Brother]

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Originally posted by: Ian Sane
Should I say "not great support" instead?  Or "weak support"?  What wording do you deem appropriate for third party support that just isn't all that hot?  Obviously I think third party support of any kind is better than none at all.  But in general I don't think the support the Wii is getting is that great yet.  It certainly isn't at a point where I would say that things are fine as is as we don't have to worry about everything.

You know why I'm not worried? Because of blog entries like this which point out some obvious and yet important facts:

"Consumer chaos, huge line-ups and shipment sell-outs are something that happen over Christmas, not in January. We expect them in December. It’s that wonderful time of year where everyone goes nuts and decides that what their bachelor apartment really needs in a 50? Plasma Television and so much IKEA furniture that the excess multitools can be melted down into a cube and exhibited in a museum as some sort of post-modern critique of consumerism and giant cubes. Everyone loses their sh*t in December, and so sales from that month are largely irrelevant. What’s hot in December is in the bargain bin in January, as generally kids wake up and realize that the thing they wanted — whether it was that version of Battleship that actually talked to you or some sort of voice-activated water pistol that attached to your finger — actually really sucks.

But that didn’t happen with the Wii. Their sales in January 2007 were the highest January sales for any console ever."

The support is coming. I know the support is coming, even without having to see that there is support listed, because I know for a FACT that developers make games which will give them the most return for their money.

If the Wii is the cheapest console to develop for (and it is, by FAR) AND the console with the highest userbase, then it will get all the games, PERIOD.

This is not a debate. This isn't even up for QUESTION. Devs go where the money is and I guarantee that any dev who wasn't thinking about the Wii before is launch is thinking pretty DAMN hard about it right now, even if we haven't heard announcements of these games yet.

In Japan, the Wii currently holds 60+% of the next-gen market, as we all know, it's clobbering the PS3 and it passed the 360 on its first day of sales.

In the eyes of Japanese devs (who still want to sell games in Japan), do you honestly think this isn't going to influence their decisions, especially while their rival dev companies are raking in huge profits on the Wii?

MORE to the point, by your OWN admissions, the Wii doesn't have any games YOU want to see on it, no "hype inducing games" and yet it STILL cannot be kept on store shelves. Imagine that.

So what happens when one of these "hype" games IS announced for the Wii? If the PS3 can't sell worth sh*t with FF and MGS on the horizon and the Wii cannot be kept on shelves WITHOUT these hype games, then I don't think it takes a degree in rocket science to figure out that the Wii is the clear winner here and I'm quite certain that 3rd party devs can likewise draw this very same conclusion for themselves.

[Ian Sane]

"Seriously, the skeptical, bitter Nintendo fanboy act is SO 1996"

No in 1996 the optimistic Nintendo fanboy act was in.  That's always the more popular attitude at the beginning of a Nintendo console life cycle.  It's around the midway point or so where it's clear that console is screwed but the new console hasn't been revealed yet that the bitter Nintendo fanboy act becomes popular.  Then once the new console is shown the retroactive "wasn't that console the best ever" Nintendo fanboy act comes in and declares that all the stuff they b!tched about was actually great.

So really I'm so 1998 or 2003.

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

Back in 1996, I returned to the Mushroom FAHKING KINGDOM in glory.

None of you and the internet and other games did not matter.

[ShyGuy]

Super Mario Bros is yet another crappy spinoff, which is why I refuse to play it. If it was Donkey Kong 3 or Mario Bros 2 I'd feel differently.

[Kairon]

In 1996, Pro666 rose into heaven.

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Originally posted by: GoldenPhoenix

That is if you like Kirby Tilt and Tumble, or any other games of that nature. Hehe

AAAAAAAARRRRRGGHHHHHH!!!

... *has a sudden idea*

It's official people. GoldenPhoenix HATES Kirby.

*smiles gleefully at this most monstrous of insults*

~Carmine "Cai" M. Red
Kairon@aol.com

[Kairon]

Quote
Originally posted by: UncleBob


Anywhoo, think of it as food.  Let's say you enjoy McDonald's on occasion.  And let's say there's a locally owned resturant in town that... well... you've never been fond of.  In fact, the last two times you ate there, you got food poisioning.  So, both McDonald's and this local joint start selling a new chicken sandwich... Now, you're on a diet, so you only eat out once a week - which one are you going to try?  Are you going to go with the safe place that you've been happy with all along, or are you going to support the smaller, local business just so you can say you're giving them a chance?

Well, just because Sega serves such bad food doesn't mean that Atlus does too! In fact, what if they bring their Megami Tensei Meal to our location? I've heard it's been a pretty decent hit in other regions, it's worth a bite or two at least! And what of these newcomers, Wahoo, where your Namco-Bandai dining card works? I hear they've got this real zany-out-of-this-world experience they're formulating for this summer.

And just for nostalgia's sake, let's not forget Totally Games! They made some KILLER burgers back in the day, but have sadly faded away. However, they're trying to come back onto the scene with some weird concoction having to do with Aliens and Syndromes.... I hope they're not daring us to catch some new version of Mad Cow Disease... But hey, for old time's sake it's worth a look see right?

I think you'll find that this is anything but a two restaurant town, and that your dining choices stretch from Japanese, to American, to even some wacky European cuisine! Why, just the other day, I had some Argentinian on the go!

~Carmine "Cai" M. Red
Kairon@aol.com

[Ceric]

Me definitely love my Gamefly.  I probably never play Trauma Center or Super Swing Golf if was not for it.  It's hard to take a chance when paying full price for games.  In fact games like Phoenix Wright I might feel a little gyped paying full price because for me they have no replay value whatsoever.  

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

I bought Twilight Princess.

Twice.

lol double gyped

[couchmonkey]

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Originally posted by: Ian Sane
"There has NEVER been bad support for a console maker."
During the Gamecube drought people were making f*cking Cel Damage out to be something worthwhile.

And right now you have your choice of Sonic or SSX Blur, both of which are scoring somewhere in the 75% range on Gamerakings.  Things are improving.

I admit, it's not that great right now, but I believe the support is coming.  The fact is, it takes at least a year to put together a decent game these days, so third parties that didn't "get it" until the sales numbers started coming in aren't going to have anything ready until the end of this year.  Even the ones that started figuring it out at last year's E3 are going to be looking at a summer-fall release. Rockstar is a perfect example - after E3 they were all like, "well, maybe..." and 8 months later, they announce Manhunt 2.

VF5 appearing on both other systems - better get used to it, publishers have to port their 360 and PS3 projects back and forth to get their money's worth, but porting to Wii from those platforms is probably a waste of time, so much effort would have to go into downgrading the graphics.  Wii will wind up with the PS2/PSP ports and a bunch of exclusives.

[Ian Sane]

"VF5 appearing on both other systems - better get used to it, publishers have to port their 360 and PS3 projects back and forth to get their money's worth, but porting to Wii from those platforms is probably a waste of time, so much effort would have to go into downgrading the graphics."

So by gimping their hardware Nintendo has essentially restricted their third party potential?  I guess if they're number one in both major regions then all the big games will be made for the Wii in the first place but not being able to be ported to kind of sucks.  But then that problem was spotted years ago so it's nothing new I guess.

[UncleBob]

You know, nothing stopped companies (say, Capcom, perhaps) from downgrading games to be ported to the PS2 from the GameCube...

[Smash_Brother]

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Originally posted by: Ian Sane So by gimping their hardware Nintendo has essentially restricted their third party potential?  I guess if they're number one in both major regions then all the big games will be made for the Wii in the first place but not being able to be ported to kind of sucks.  But then that problem was spotted years ago so it's nothing new I guess.

Like UB said, if that were true, the PS2 should have been dead last because it never got any ports.

[Kairon]

This IS a bigger gap though....*shrug* But I believe it was a necessary sacrifice for price position, mass marketability, and a user-base large enough to overcome a more pressing block to third parties than hardware: sales.

Nintendo needed to convince third parties to develop for the Wii, and they did it by appealing to their pocketbooks instead of their egos.

~Carmine "Cai" M. Red
Kairon@aol.com

[Mario]

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Third parties have no one to blame but themselves on this. Look at Super Monkey Ball - after One and Two, I figured I'd buy any game with the Monkey Ball name on it. (Hell, I even have Monkey Ball action figures!). Then SEGA goes and throws crap out there like the DS game and Super Monkey Ball Adventure and now I refused to touch Banana Blitz with a ten foot pole.

Banana Blitz is the best one, for single player that is. Adventure was made by an entirely different team and the DS one is on DS and I don't know about that one.

If you haven't played the Wii third party games, you've got no right to say anything about them. Not a THING.

Anyway, Nintendo doesn't NEED third parties. The Wii will keep on selling out, and soon the userbase will be so big that third parties will need Nintendo and you'll all get the MGS and GTA games you'll never even play. VF5 a big title? LOL. Smash Bros is an example of a big title. VF5 flopped.

[Urkel]

VF5 is a big title for hardcore gamers who derive enjoyment from memorizing arbitrary button combinations.

And this thread is el oh els.

I remember back when Rick Powers raised a big stink and said that the DS would never get any big games, and that the potential of the touch screen was already exhausted. No matter how much everybody except Ian disagreed with him, he was certain that was the fate for the DS.

Of course, about a million people are going to reply "OH BUT YOU CAN'T COMPARE THE CONSOLE MARKET TO THE PORTABLE MARKET DON'T ASK ME WHY YOU JUST CAN'T". Bah. Whatever.

[IceCold]

Hah. I remember that. And I also remember Billy Berghammer writing a horrible article at DS launch, saying that it was the first Nintendo console he wasn't looking forward to.

[Kairon]

Traditional Hardcore gamers... BAH. They don't see the forest for the trees.

~Carmine "Cai" M. Red
Kairon@aol.com