Topic: Final Fantasy XII sucks...

[Kairon]

Gambits themselves don't sounds so bad now that I've read penny-arcades take on it and thought about it for a bit, but the whole way you walk around then enter into a battle and then if you move around it makes no sense whatsoever still seems very distasteful.

Even with gambits off, I can see how someone can be totally weirded out by being given the option of moving in real time, yet that having no effect at all. Heck, even WoW is more complex then that, you can actually run away in WoW and it's a sorta fun thing to do too.

~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com

[nitsu niflheim]

You can run away in FFXII.

[Shin Gallon]

Quote
Originally posted by: nitsu niflheim
You can run away in FFXII.

I've yet to do so sucessfully, the enemies just follow you and re-engage, often with even more enemies this time. I swear, it's like they designed this game specifically with pissing me off in mind.

[KDR_11k]

And, what's wrong with that? You have to physically get away rather than hope a diceroll decides the enemies disappear.

Gambits sound like more elaborate unit behaviour settings than what we see in RTSes. As long as you have to micro when hitting a boss I don't think there's much wrong with that, although I think RPGs would benefit from requiring more strategic thinking in all situations rather than just boss fights (and even those usually devolve into spamming heal and your highest DPS attacks in most RPGs). I think the average battle in Company of Heroes demands more from the player than many RPGs.

[Magik]

Enemies will only reengage you if you're still in their zone.  Once you get beyond that, they return to their original area.  

[Kairon]

Ah! Then perhaps it's the level design that is misleading Shin Gallon in the distance that he needs to run? Or perhaps the enemies should give up sooner..

~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com

[Shin Gallon]

The MMO style of the game is the biggest turnoff for me, even more than the atrocious Gambit sytem. I figure if they're going to let me run around during the battle, it should actually make a difference in whether or not the enemies hit me.
Why is it so hard to believe that I honestly, truly, just don't like this game?

[Magik]

We do believe you don't like the game.  

Its the fact that you blatantly lie when you say "the game plays by itself" when its far from that.

If you've played the game long enough you would realize that:
1.) You're not given every single gambit at the beginning of the game, you have to either find them or buy them
2.) You can manually control each individual action
3.) Even having all the gambits, you won't be able to cover ever single possible situation that can occur, especially with the later bosses and even the secret bosses

[Mikintosh]

I will of course defer judgement until I actually get my hands on the game, but coming from the Mario-Zelda-Pokemon school of thought, the idea of radically changing how the game is played (not just going from 2-D to 3-D) in one of the major installments of a two-decade series strikes me as...weird and not something I like the idea of. There's probably a lengthy precedent for it, I'm sure, but it's still not the best idea in my mind.

If the game had been called Final Fantasy Gambit or something catchier, I think there wouldn't be this confusion amongst some of the populice (Final Fantasy XI being an MMO probably hasn't helped keep the franchise name cohesive either).

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

Final Fantasy: The Crystal Bearers' inclusion of AIRSHIPS makes it an official Final Fantasy game.  We know where the REAL SERIES heading now.

[Smash_Brother]

Quote
Originally posted by: Professional 666
Final Fantasy: The Crystal Bearers' inclusion of AIRSHIPS makes it an official Final Fantasy game.  We know where the REAL SERIES heading now.

That's more truth than any of us realize.

[vudu]

Quote
Originally posted by: Mikintosh
the idea of radically changing how the game is played (not just going from 2-D to 3-D) in one of the major installments of a two-decade series strikes me as...weird and not something I like the idea of.

It works for Resident Evil 4.  

[Ceric]

I always felt the Square always messed with the system between the games.

[Mikintosh]

I own Resident Evil 4, and it felt similar to the Gamecube Resident Evil 1 I rented. I know they switched from static to fully 3D rendered environments, but I'd put that in the 2D to 3D category. For comparison , it'd be like if Resident Evil 4 was an turn-based adventure game, after having a series full of push-button action.

I thought FF 1-10 played mostly the same way, with some minor changes (akin to adding 2 vs. 2 battles in Pokemon), though I haven't touched some of the games in the series.

[Shin Gallon]

Quote
Originally posted by: Magik
We do believe you don't like the game.  

Its the fact that you blatantly lie when you say "the game plays by itself" when its far from that.

If you've played the game long enough you would realize that:
1.) You're not given every single gambit at the beginning of the game, you have to either find them or buy them
2.) You can manually control each individual action
3.) Even having all the gambits, you won't be able to cover ever single possible situation that can occur, especially with the later bosses and even the secret bosses

I don't mean it plays itself all the time, but with Gambits you do far, far less actual playing than you would otherwise. People have argued that Gambits remove the "tedious" repitition of the game, but I feel that even if I'm just hitting "Attack" over and over, at least I'm having SOME input on the game and not just looking out for the times I need to step in.
Setting the game to Wait, turning the speed all the way down and not using Gambits has made the game at least tolerable, though, so that I can get the parts of the game I actually do enjoy: The story and music. The story is incredibly good in this one, I just wish it weren't saddled with such a lacking combat system.  

[Artimus]

I find most RE games unplayable because of the camera, but I love 4.

[KDR_11k]

I don't mean it plays itself all the time, but with Gambits you do far, far less actual playing than you would otherwise. People have argued that Gambits remove the "tedious" repitition of the game, but I feel that even if I'm just hitting "Attack" over and over, at least I'm having SOME input on the game and not just looking out for the times I need to step in.

I think it just acts as a magnifying lens over the fundamental flaw many RPGs exhibit (normal combat dumb as bricks). You see more than the current and maybe the next few turns, you see the battle as a whole and you realize the battle is pretty dumb.

[Requiem of Darcness]

I'm sorry but anyone complaining about the battle system is just plain whining. I mean at first I thought the argument has some merit but after putting 16 hours into the game thus far and fiddling with the battle system I don't see what the problem is. I mean I'm not saying that you can't like the game but the battle system is fine. If you turn off the gambits and set it to Wait instead of active it plays just like the old system. In fact, giving the customization options you have, you can make the game play like old school FF, FFXI, or similar to Chrono Trigger. After playing with the gambits and setting it to active, going back to the Wait and enter every command system seems extremely monotonous. In all, I am glad Square-Enix decided to shake things up a bit. Its nice to play FF game with an excellent story, instead of the crap fest that was FFX-2.

As for the RE comparison, RE4 plays completely differently from the others. The control system is vastly superior and its more of an action game. In previous RE games you had clunky controls, an imprecise aiming system, and a fixed camera perspective. RE4 had none of those. The camera was over the shoulder, you had true analog aiming, and the control system was actually intuitive. The setting and mood of RE4 was similar to prior games but the way it played was completely different on the whole. That is why so many people that weren't big fans of the RE series , such as myself, find RE4 to be such an excellent game.

[Mikintosh]

Saying a game controls "different" because it controls better is like saying Super Mario World controlled differently than Super Mario Bros. 'cause you had more control over the guy in the air.

As I said before, I haven't played FFXII yet, but if the Wait system thing works, than I'd be happy. I'm all for new controls, but use them in a spin-off, 'cause using them in a regular installment inferes with certain expectations of what an FF game is like. Personally, I like entering the commands manually because, as Shin Gallon said, it makes me feel active in the game, which I need for RPGs 'cause I'm really more of a side-scroller/fighting game guy. What was wrong with the ATB system that they couldn't keep going with that?

[KDR_11k]

Saying a game controls "different" because it controls better is like saying Super Mario World controlled differently than Super Mario Bros. 'cause you had more control over the guy in the air.

The difference is that SMB didn't control horribly.

I'm all for new controls, but use them in a spin-off, 'cause using them in a regular installment inferes with certain expectations of what an FF game is like.

I disagree with that, sequels should seek ways to improve the user interface and in this case there was a good reason to remove the manual control of every action (just like Diablo 2 no longer requires you to click once per attack). Since this requires less attention than the standard system in standard situations (i.e. just sluggin' on de enemiez) they might increase the active party size on the next-gen systems (since the PS2 can't display more party members) so if you have e.g. 7 characters in your party you get to use all of them instead of swapping them out all the time.

Personally, I like entering the commands manually because, as Shin Gallon said, it makes me feel active in the game, which I need for RPGs 'cause I'm really more of a side-scroller/fighting game guy.

Personally I prefer not to be bothered with unnecessary decisions. I'd feel more active if I actually did more than just "sign" the attack order every turn. Thinking up actual strategies and stuff like that.

What was wrong with the ATB system that they couldn't keep going with that?

Too repetitive, especially for standard situations where you're just hitting attack anyway.

[Nick DiMola]

I just picked this game up at TRU on Saturday night for $9.99, after playing it for a couple of hours I think alot of the reaction to the game's new combat system was very knee-jerk. The game is Final Fantasy through and through and is actually pretty enjoyable to play. While it may be doing certain things for you, the game feels more interactive than the pre-FFXII games do. The story is a little cliche as it usually is, but I'm going to stick with it because I think it has some potential. Not sure where they are going with XIII but after seeing the changes with XII I'm very curious.

[ShyGuy]

Late to the Party Bump! Played a bit of this last night. Not hating it, but it seems a bit dull. Combat seems shallow.

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

BUMPAMANIA IS RUNNIN' WILD

[Ceric]

Late to the Party Bump! Played a bit of this last night. Not hating it, but it seems a bit dull. Combat seems shallow.

It has depth.  But I would recommend doing all of the character enhancement licenses as soon as possible.
The beginning is a little dull but that's par for square.  It does pickup and I enjoy the hunts.

[Pale]

I really enjoyed this game and really enjoyed the Gambit system...

http://palehour.com/index.php?PBPost=49