Author Topic: Final Fantasy XII sucks... (Read 47537 times)

NinGurl69 *huggles · « **Reply #25 on:** October 16, 2006, 01:42:17 PM »

Does that mean you still don't fight your battles?

Smash_Brother · « **Reply #26 on:** October 16, 2006, 02:06:59 PM »

Quote
Originally posted by: Professional 666
Does that mean you still don't fight your battles?

Sadly, no, you don't.

You tell the character to attack (by selecting it from a MENU which is opened with one of two buttons) and they stand there, wait until their attack bar fills up, then swing their weapon.

It's funny because the game features a lock-on ability which allows you to circle enemies but, as near as I can tell, it doesn't matter because when an enemy goes to attack you, it runs straight to you and hits you no matter how far from it you are at the time or if you're circle strafing it.

Basically, they added an unnecessary interface which pretends it's grounded in live action but is actually turn based anyway.

Shin Gallon · « **Reply #27 on:** October 16, 2006, 06:03:12 PM »

If they'd not insisted on making the game play like an offline MMORPG, maybe I'd like it better.

Smash_Brother · « **Reply #28 on:** October 16, 2006, 06:20:06 PM »

I didn't play for very long in.

Do additional party members lead the interface to make more sense or not?

NWR_pap64 · « **Reply #29 on:** October 16, 2006, 07:16:25 PM »

WOW...

This may be the first Final Fantasy game I may pass on since FFXI...Not that I was that interested, but reading about how the battle system works just breaks the game for me.

Smash_Brother · « **Reply #30 on:** October 16, 2006, 07:33:11 PM »

Yeah, a friend of mine always said that the first thing any developer should do is ensure that the interface does not obstruct the user's enjoyment of the game.

Having to open a menu to attack an enemy is just ludicrous: there are plenty of buttons which could be used to cycle through targets (like the mostly unused shoulder buttons) and one of the face buttons to toggle attack on. Since your other party members are AI controlled, there's no reason not to use these buttons to make immediate commands rather than select them from a menu.

The whole thing makes no sense. I know Square has always been all about the stories, but making such a horrible design decision is unlike them. Did they think people would want to open a menu every time they wanted to perform the most basic function in the game.

Even Children of Mana allows you to map ITEMS to buttons on the DS. You'd think that mapping attack wouldn't escape them...

NWR_pap64 · « **Reply #31 on:** October 16, 2006, 08:40:29 PM »

I think Final Fantasy VIII may no longer be the black sheep of the FF family. The engine may not have been perfect, but at least it was PLAYABLE.

I'm honestly surprised Square released a game with such a questionable engine. Had this been a new franchise, it wouldn't have been as bad. But this is FINAL FANTASY we are talking about, their bread and butter. You would think they would be careful when developing the game.

Good thing the Wii is coming out and there are many new DS games, cause I could care less about FFXII now...

Shin Gallon · « **Reply #32 on:** October 16, 2006, 08:44:37 PM »

See, my problem with FFXII is there isn't ENOUGH menu action. I want pure turn-based combat where I strategically make combat decisions for the characters, not some auto-pilot garbage taking control of the game away from me.
In this case, the interface and basic battle system design inherently destroy my enjoyment of the game.

KDR_11k · « **Reply #33 on:** October 17, 2006, 12:09:13 AM »

AFAIK at least at some point Square made a set of Final Fantasy candidate games and picked one of them to carry the FF name while the others get other names (IIRC Vagrant Story was a candidate for FF8).

And I think S-E just wants to tell us with FF12 that if we want strategy we should play a strategy game, RPGs are supposed to be based on mindless level grinding and not require skill...

nitsu niflheim · « **Reply #34 on:** October 17, 2006, 04:51:48 AM »

Quote
Originally posted by: Shin Gallon
See, my problem with FFXII is there isn't ENOUGH menu action. I want pure turn-based combat where I strategically make combat decisions for the characters, not some auto-pilot garbage taking control of the game away from me.
In this case, the interface and basic battle system design inherently destroy my enjoyment of the game.

can't you set up the gambit's or whatever to give you that complete control. I remember reading that you can have complete control over all party members if you want.

Smash_Brother · « **Reply #35 on:** October 17, 2006, 10:54:46 AM »

Quote
Originally posted by: Shin Gallon
See, my problem with FFXII is there isn't ENOUGH menu action. I want pure turn-based combat where I strategically make combat decisions for the characters, not some auto-pilot garbage taking control of the game away from me.
In this case, the interface and basic battle system design inherently destroy my enjoyment of the game.

That's fine, but I'm sure we can both agree that the end result is a game which tries to be a little bit of both and just ends up sucking.

The story might be good (although it seemed pretty basic from what I saw) but it doesn't make up for a clunky interface which tries to pretend to not be a turn based attack system when it actually is.

Magik · « **Reply #36 on:** October 17, 2006, 01:13:20 PM »

Quote
Originally posted by: pap64
WOW...

This may be the first Final Fantasy game I may pass on since FFXI...Not that I was that interested, but reading about how the battle system works just breaks the game for me.

At least try the game before you decide to pass on it. I was in the same boat as you are. I read about the battle system and it sounded awful. But after playing it and fiddling around with the battle system, I found the game quite enjoyable.

Magik · « **Reply #37 on:** October 17, 2006, 01:15:44 PM »

Quote
Originally posted by: Shin Gallon
See, my problem with FFXII is there isn't ENOUGH menu action. I want pure turn-based combat where I strategically make combat decisions for the characters, not some auto-pilot garbage taking control of the game away from me.
In this case, the interface and basic battle system design inherently destroy my enjoyment of the game.

If you want to remove the AI controls, just turn off the gambits. Even with the gambits on you can still override the AI decisions.

NWR_pap64 · « **Reply #38 on:** October 17, 2006, 01:29:32 PM »

Quote
Originally posted by: Magik
Quote
Originally posted by: pap64
WOW...

This may be the first Final Fantasy game I may pass on since FFXI...Not that I was that interested, but reading about how the battle system works just breaks the game for me.

At least try the game before you decide to pass on it. I was in the same boat as you are. I read about the battle system and it sounded awful. But after playing it and fiddling around with the battle system, I found the game quite enjoyable.

I decided to hold opinions till I play the game, believe me. I decided to look around to see if this issue is a matter of personal preference or faulty game design.

From what I've seen, the game has people torned in half. Some love the game and understand the engine and can't play through it.

This seems to be a common issue with FF games. Last I remember, people were annoyed that the monsters didn't attack in real time in FFX, while some loved the engine in 10-2 but HATED the story.

Magik · « **Reply #39 on:** October 17, 2006, 01:46:53 PM »

Quote
Originally posted by: pap64
Quote
Originally posted by: Magik
Quote
Originally posted by: pap64
WOW...

This may be the first Final Fantasy game I may pass on since FFXI...Not that I was that interested, but reading about how the battle system works just breaks the game for me.

At least try the game before you decide to pass on it. I was in the same boat as you are. I read about the battle system and it sounded awful. But after playing it and fiddling around with the battle system, I found the game quite enjoyable.

I decided to hold opinions till I play the game, believe me. I decided to look around to see if this issue is a matter of personal preference or faulty game design.

From what I've seen, the game has people torned in half. Some love the game and understand the engine and can't play through it.

This seems to be a common issue with FF games. Last I remember, people were annoyed that the monsters didn't attack in real time in FFX, while some loved the engine in 10-2 but HATED the story.

You're absolutely right, this game has torn the fanbase in half. Heck, you can check out GameFAQs forums to see that

.

Shin Gallon · « **Reply #40 on:** October 17, 2006, 06:35:53 PM »

Quote

can't you set up the gambit's or whatever to give you that complete control. I remember reading that you can have complete control over all party members if you want.

The Gambits are precisely what REMOVE control from you. Stuff like that worked in the Kingdom hearts games because those are full action-RPGs, but if I have menu based combat, I don't fancy turning over control of the game to the AI, regardless of how much input the AI has from me.
You CAN put the game into Wait mode and not use Gambits, but then you still have the awful MMO-style free-roaming monster junk and the clunky, anti-intuative interface. If they'd added in a "Classic Battle" mode or something where it played like, say, FFVI or VII, I'd be fine with that. As it is, though, if I'm gonna play this game at all, it'll be for the story, and I'd just Gameshark the hell out of it to get through it as fast as possible and just see the story.

KDR_11k · « **Reply #41 on:** October 17, 2006, 09:34:31 PM »

What's your problem with free roaming monsters? That way you can see what's coming up.

Kairon · « **Reply #42 on:** October 18, 2006, 12:18:45 AM »

... I've only played the demo, that's all.

Problem is not free-roaming monsters. Earthbound had free-roaming monsters.

The problem is that once you get into combat, any movement AT ALL is a damn, dirty, lie. Actually, any time you get into a battle, anything you do AT ALL is a damn dirty lie. Once you get into a battle you should just lie back, cease all bodily functions, and commence atrophying. Then you push the analog pad in the direction of the next blob of monsters when you're done.

Penny Arcade said it best.

~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com

GoldenPhoenix · « **Reply #43 on:** October 18, 2006, 12:31:41 AM »

Quote
Originally posted by: Kairon
... I've only played the demo, that's all.

Problem is not free-roaming monsters. Earthbound had free-roaming monsters.

The problem is that once you get into combat, any movement AT ALL is a damn, dirty, lie. Actually, any time you get into a battle, anything you do AT ALL is a damn dirty lie. Once you get into a battle you should just lie back, cease all bodily functions, and commence atrophying. Then you push the analog pad in the direction of the next blob of monsters when you're done.

Penny Arcade said it best.

~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com

One reason why I never cared much for FF games is because of things like that and the dang irritating random battles. With that said I did like one FF game and that was FFIV which I thought and still think is amazing.

Shin Gallon · « **Reply #44 on:** October 18, 2006, 01:51:49 AM »

Quote
Originally posted by: KDR_11k
What's your problem with free roaming monsters? That way you can see what's coming up.

I dislike the lack of transition to "battle screen" mode, with the menus and good combat systems of older, better FF games. I dislike the lack of a Fanfare music, and the lack of victory poses and a screen telling me what I got out of the battle.
Basically I dislike everything about the game except the story and music and graphics. it looks and sounds wonderful, it just play like crap.

capamerica · « **Reply #45 on:** October 18, 2006, 04:15:32 AM »

Quote
Originally posted by: Shin Gallon
I dislike the lack of transition to "battle screen" mode, with the menus and good combat systems of older, better FF games. I dislike the lack of a Fanfare music, and the lack of victory poses and a screen telling me what I got out of the battle.
Basically I dislike everything about the game except the story and music and graphics. it looks and sounds wonderful, it just play like crap.

so far after what I have played so far I totaly agree with you Shin Gallon.

KDR_11k · « **Reply #46 on:** October 18, 2006, 08:57:20 AM »

I dislike the lack of transition to "battle screen" mode, with the menus and good combat systems of older, better FF games.

I don't see a reason why the spot in the dungeon can't be used as a combat arena instead of spending forever to load the battlefield, the enemies, the battle models, then showing some camera sweeps that introduce the enemies, etc before you can fight. That's my biggest grief with random encounters and zoomed battles, usually the battle introduction and ending takes longer than the battle itself, especially against weak enemies.

I dislike the lack of a Fanfare music, and the lack of victory poses and a screen telling me what I got out of the battle.

That's nice to see if you fight at most ten battles per dungeon but as the number approaches the triple digits that victory pose is just annoying.

I'm not saying FF12 is good but I'm saying that Fallout had a much better combat system than the FFs without any annoying intro and outro for battles, the game just went into turn based mode when you encountered an enemy and that's it.

eurai · « **Reply #47 on:** October 18, 2006, 05:52:13 PM »

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...The game just went into turn based mode when you encountered an enemy and that's it.

Chrono Trigger (in my opinion) achieved a perfect balance, here: plenty of encounters if you're in the mood for them -- many of them avoidable -- and almost no transition time between combat and exploration both before and after battles.

I'm bored when I play the FFXII demo. Random encounters and turn-based strategy can be frustrating, but they're at least not automatic processes that lack interactivity.

KDR_11k · « **Reply #48 on:** October 19, 2006, 10:32:48 AM »

Dunno, most random encounters are so mindless they could just as well be handled by the AI and save me unnecessary button presses.

Shin Gallon · « **Reply #49 on:** October 19, 2006, 01:45:38 PM »

Quote
Originally posted by: KDR_11k
Dunno, most random encounters are so mindless they could just as well be handled by the AI and save me unnecessary button presses.

So you have no problem playing a game that you don't actually play? Then Square-Enix has got your back on this one.

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Author Topic: Final Fantasy XII sucks... (Read 47537 times)