Author Topic: Final Fantasy XII sucks...  (Read 47521 times)

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Offline 18 Days

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RE: Final Fantasy XII sucks...
« Reply #50 on: October 19, 2006, 10:32:25 PM »
I can't wait for my flatmate to buy this game and watch him live in denial as he pretends to enjoy it.
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Offline KDR_11k

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RE: Final Fantasy XII sucks...
« Reply #51 on: October 20, 2006, 12:00:00 AM »
So you have no problem playing a game that you don't actually play? Then Square-Enix has got your back on this one.

Oh, I do have a problem with that but I don't think it can be solved by forcing me to manually select attack all the time. How about cutscenes that don't make your character do stupid things? How about a battle system that does NOT get on your nuts after playing the game for an hour or two? How about not having me encounter one of three possible enemy groups every five seconds in a dungeon? How about a story that's not clicheed to the point where you can predict the entire storyline with 95% accuracy after seeing the intro movie?

Offline Kairon

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RE:Final Fantasy XII sucks...
« Reply #52 on: October 20, 2006, 10:26:31 AM »
Quote

Originally posted by: KDR_11k
So you have no problem playing a game that you don't actually play? Then Square-Enix has got your back on this one.

Oh, I do have a problem with that but I don't think it can be solved by forcing me to manually select attack all the time. How about cutscenes that don't make your character do stupid things? How about a battle system that does NOT get on your nuts after playing the game for an hour or two? How about not having me encounter one of three possible enemy groups every five seconds in a dungeon? How about a story that's not clicheed to the point where you can predict the entire storyline with 95% accuracy after seeing the intro movie?


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Offline LarryLegend

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RE:Final Fantasy XII sucks...
« Reply #53 on: November 04, 2006, 01:20:44 PM »
I agree with the topic to this thread . Shin Gallon is right on . and like you Ive played every other English version one of these games except xI because it was an MMO. This game fxxxxxx sucks cock. I am about 1 and 1/2 hours into this packaged pile of sxxx of a game and I swear never to drop it into the system again.  Everything that was great about final fantasy going back to 7 has been changed for the worse .  Everything about Final Fantasy now sucks . The battle sequences , no random encounters , these stupid fucxxxx liscence points, "autopilot" fighting , bad story, even the stupid ass talking bubbles above everyones head in the game that can speak to your character. Im sorry I bought this shxx . If you haven't bought it yet and even if you are a huge fan of Final Fantasy .....Do Not waste your Cash

Offline KDR_11k

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RE: Final Fantasy XII sucks...
« Reply #54 on: November 05, 2006, 03:07:05 AM »
From what I heard from other people on the game is that it rocks, the battle system is a lot of fun (and still requires some micro), the story is better than previous FFs, etc. Think I might pick it up. I didn't like FFX but from the sound of it most of what I disliked about that was fixed (e.g. the random battles with their simple and repetitive strategy and the stupid cut scenes like the laughing one). I'll wait for the Platinum release, though. 60€ is a lot of money still.

Offline Magik

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RE: Final Fantasy XII sucks...
« Reply #55 on: November 05, 2006, 03:24:07 AM »
It is a good game.  Sure it has it flaws, but not as bad as everybody makes it out to be.

The Battle System is really good once you spend more time with it and really understand how it works.

Don't like License points?  Its the same thing as AP, Sphere Levels or whatever skill points that were used in the past games.

'Auto-Pilot'?  Once you get deeper into the game you'll realize that no matter how well you configure 'Auto-Pilot' aka the gambits, you'll never cover every situation possible.  And if 'Auto-Pilot' is that bad... TURN IT OFF and manually input every action.  

Offline KDR_11k

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RE: Final Fantasy XII sucks...
« Reply #56 on: November 05, 2006, 03:38:46 AM »
Yep, sounds like an RTS. You can do what you want with those units and they'll fight respectably by themselves but micromanagement will still make them more efficient and in the end the better microer will win.

Offline nitsu niflheim

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RE: Final Fantasy XII sucks...
« Reply #57 on: November 05, 2006, 04:46:39 PM »
The battle congratuations are there, but they are only after bosses or event battles.

"The problem is that once you get into combat, any movement AT ALL is a damn, dirty, lie. Actually, any time you get into a battle, anything you do AT ALL is a damn dirty lie. Once you get into a battle you should just lie back, cease all bodily functions, and commence atrophying. Then you push the analog pad in the direction of the next blob of monsters when you're done."

Turn off the gambits and control everything yourself.

I have all characters main attack gambit to attack nearest visible foe, even the leader.  This doesn't make the game easier because while I have the main healing gabit to heal either at 70 or 60 % health, those don't come into effect if the character is attack, it generally goes into effect when the character is not near an enemy or no looking at an enemy.  When using items and gambits they seem to use them right away when needed.  As items have a very short time between use and taking into effect, in a battle where time is short (and there are battles with time limits either a clock or otherwise) that can mean the difference between winning and dieing.

My only real gripe with the game is the very lazy camera.  I hated the camer in FFXI, and this is just as bad.  You have to control it just about all the time because it stays in one place.

And not a major thing, some parts of the game where its dark, it's really dark and hard to see hallway entrances and stuff if you aren't watching the mini map to see where the turn is.

When you are out killing to raise levels and/or collect LP, this make it go along a whoel hell of a lot quicker.
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Offline KDR_11k

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RE: Final Fantasy XII sucks...
« Reply #58 on: November 05, 2006, 08:00:31 PM »
When you are out killing to raise levels and/or collect LP, this make it go along a whoel hell of a lot quicker.

And if you don't, can you still get through the game or do you have to stop for an hour of levelling occassionally?

RE: Final Fantasy XII sucks...
« Reply #59 on: November 05, 2006, 10:18:01 PM »
This is going to be an odd first post. I have been reading these message boards for months and only now have been able to log into my account. I have previously been getting odd error messages.

The odd thing about this first post is that one should never be a disagreeing a** on their first post but I have to say that I love the new battle system in the Final Fantasy series. I say this as someone who has played the series from FFI. My main grief with the recent Final Fantasy games have been that individual battles take so freaking long. From the intro to the battle and the final celebrations, levelling (which I consider integral to the series) became a pain. With this new format the battles are rapid and one can either micromanage the battles or plan them out in advance. Personally I like setting up gambits for my secondary characters and controlling my main character. The more you play the game the more satisfying and complex this system grows.

In some ways this creates far greater immersion than some of the previous games. During X, for example, I would often times find myself pushing the X button ad nauseam. This didn't make me feel more involved, rather the contrary in fact. Seeing the enemies in real-time also makes the experience feel more authentic while playing.

In the end, I can understand why die-hards of the series may have issues; however, this is still a final fantasy game at heart and many of the changes feel like necessary progress. In a way it is how I hope I feel about the Wii when it comes out. It is an evolution of something that I adore that I hadn't even realized needed evolving.

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Offline oohhboy

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RE: Final Fantasy XII sucks...
« Reply #60 on: November 06, 2006, 03:41:48 AM »
Has anyone thought about comparing this to the Tales of Symphonia battle system? Because I really want to know the differences between them. The prolbem with this thread right now is that everybody is too busy comparing this game to itself and its predecessors. There are other RPGs out there.

Although I haven't played FFXII or any FF to any longer than 5 hours since I can't stand them. I have played TOS. The battle system is completely real time and can be completely automated if one wished. But, you wouldn't get far. TOS required constant input for the charater you currently controlled and for the bigger battles, your friends as so to make sure you didn't get your asses kicked.

From what I have gathered so far from this thread is that although FFXII does appear to be real time, it isn't. Underneath the gambit system, the menus, it is still an ATB system or variant like Chrono trigger. I dare say it, "A mid 90's system". I personally never liked it as it lacked the flow of a true real time system. It lacked the complete tactial control of a pure turn based system with crude and then annoyingly unnessercary positioning that rendered most attacks a few degrees off from useless.

Now that I have stepped into the crossfire. Shoot away. Just not the face alright.
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Offline nitsu niflheim

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RE:Final Fantasy XII sucks...
« Reply #61 on: November 06, 2006, 04:45:34 AM »
Quote

Originally posted by: KDR_11k
When you are out killing to raise levels and/or collect LP, this make it go along a whoel hell of a lot quicker.

And if you don't, can you still get through the game or do you have to stop for an hour of levelling occassionally?



I think you can, as long as you sell your loot you collect as you fight from one area to the next, so you can buy better weapons.  I've neglected armor and stuff more than anything else, spending on weapons and magic and abilities and only ran into one boss so far that gave me a problem, and then I found out that I could have run away from that boss.  You immediately run into a weaker version of that boss in the next room that you are required to beat.
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Offline nitsu niflheim

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RE:Final Fantasy XII sucks...
« Reply #62 on: November 06, 2006, 05:10:06 AM »
Quote

Originally posted by: oohhboy
Has anyone thought about comparing this to the Tales of Symphonia battle system? Because I really want to know the differences between them. The prolbem with this thread right now is that everybody is too busy comparing this game to itself and its predecessors. There are other RPGs out there.

Although I haven't played FFXII or any FF to any longer than 5 hours since I can't stand them. I have played TOS. The battle system is completely real time and can be completely automated if one wished. But, you wouldn't get far. TOS required constant input for the charater you currently controlled and for the bigger battles, your friends as so to make sure you didn't get your asses kicked.

From what I have gathered so far from this thread is that although FFXII does appear to be real time, it isn't. Underneath the gambit system, the menus, it is still an ATB system or variant like Chrono trigger. I dare say it, "A mid 90's system". I personally never liked it as it lacked the flow of a true real time system. It lacked the complete tactial control of a pure turn based system with crude and then annoyingly unnessercary positioning that rendered most attacks a few degrees off from useless.

Now that I have stepped into the crossfire. Shoot away. Just not the face alright.




You don't have control of attacking like in ToS.  FFXII battle system is a much better version of FFXI battle system.  You tell to attack or have gambit set to attack, and your character(s) will then attack until enemy is dead.  You don't press buttons to make them attack.  That said, it's real-time turned base.
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Offline Galford

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RE:Final Fantasy XII sucks...
« Reply #63 on: November 06, 2006, 05:52:15 AM »
It's apperant most people here don't know how to use the Gambit system.  That seems to be a major sticking point.  Master the Gambit system and master the game.  Overall I like FF12 so far.  
Great voice acting, decent story, good sound and graphics and a solidly refreshing new battle system.  

The only peole who aren't going to like FF12 are those who don't like change.
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Offline SixthAngel

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RE: Final Fantasy XII sucks...
« Reply #64 on: November 06, 2006, 06:28:43 AM »
I have only one reason to hate ff12.  I just bought dragon quest 8 and what I thought was a sticker on the box that says ff12 demo turns out to be printed on just like everything else.  While not a huge deal it completely uglifies the box and I frankly don't really care about the new final fantasy when there are older rpgs I missed. (for $20)  

Offline KDR_11k

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RE: Final Fantasy XII sucks...
« Reply #65 on: November 06, 2006, 07:20:28 AM »
From what I have gathered so far from this thread is that although FFXII does appear to be real time, it isn't. Underneath the gambit system, the menus, it is still an ATB system

The only real difference between a pure RT and automated ATB system is that the reload times for attacks in ATB exceed their attack animation.

Offline Shin Gallon

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RE:Final Fantasy XII sucks...
« Reply #66 on: November 06, 2006, 02:36:34 PM »
Quote

Originally posted by: Galford
It's apperant most people here don't know how to use the Gambit system.  That seems to be a major sticking point.  Master the Gambit system and master the game.  Overall I like FF12 so far.  
Great voice acting, decent story, good sound and graphics and a solidly refreshing new battle system.  

The only peole who aren't going to like FF12 are those who don't like change.


No, I understand how to use the Gambit system, I just think it's a horrible idea from the ground up. One person's refreshing change is another's game-breaking trash. If you like it, fine, more power to you, enjoy playing a game you don't actually play. I'll have no part of it.
I don't mind change as long as it's GOOD change. FFXII doesn't qualify in my book. I waited 5 years for this game, the next installment in my favorite game series, and the sense of disappointment I felt when I played it was almost physical. It's that, above all else, that makes me dislike this game with such intensity.
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Offline Magik

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RE: Final Fantasy XII sucks...
« Reply #67 on: November 06, 2006, 02:43:34 PM »
"enjoy playing a game you don't actually play"?  I don't think so.  You can easily choose each action just like you could in any of the previous FF.  

Stop spreading false information.



RE:Final Fantasy XII sucks...
« Reply #68 on: November 06, 2006, 02:55:55 PM »
Quote

Originally posted by: Magik
"enjoy playing a game you don't actually play"?  I don't think so.  You can easily choose each action just like you could in any of the previous FF.  

Stop spreading false information.


Thank you. I would even go so far as to say the gambits add a whole new level of strategy. Saying this is a game you "don't play" is ridiculous.  
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Offline Galford

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RE:Final Fantasy XII sucks...
« Reply #69 on: November 06, 2006, 03:08:26 PM »
The reactions this game is producing reminds me of what happened when FF8 came out.
The only game I've heard produce more controversy is Legend of Dragoon.

Will FF12 replace FF8 as one of the best FF of the series?

Only time will tell...

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RE:Final Fantasy XII sucks...
« Reply #70 on: November 06, 2006, 03:14:07 PM »
Well if you look at Metacritic it is at 93. That is pretty impresive for a such a controversial game. In fact it is higher than VII or X.
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RE: Final Fantasy XII sucks...
« Reply #71 on: November 06, 2006, 03:25:17 PM »
Just thought I would add what Gabe from Penny Arcade had to say about the game. Keep in mind that this is the same site that made fun of the game initially for...um, playing with itself.

"The mood in the office this morning is somewhat tense. We all spent the weekend playing FFXII and we came back today completely divided regarding its quality. I have to admit that after putting in nearly fifteen hours over the past two days I’m prepared to call it the best FF game I’ve ever played. I know that’s at odds with what I said on Friday but it’s the truth. Tycho and Robert are actually playing together and they’re at about the five hour mark. They came in this morning saying the game was trash and I can’t blame them. They’re knee deep in what I’d describe as the tutorial phase of the game. If you played Kingdom Hearts II you’ll remember that’s a game that doesn’t actually “start” until nearly eight hours in. I don’t mean like you don’t start having fun until then, I mean you literally don’t even see the title screen until you’ve dicked around with Roxas for eight f***ing hours. FFXII felt the same way to me. It’s extremely slow to start but now I’m having a hard time putting the controller down. The big thing for me was that I finally started to understand the combat system. I don’t just mean I could manage it, that’s not hard. I mean, I understood what they were trying to do and how it isn’t a departure from turn based combat but actually an interpretation of it. I almost said refinement there and maybe I should have. So the big complaint and the one I had for probably five hours was that I wasn’t actually doing much during most combat situations. My gambits took over and my characters just did their thing. It wasn’t until I got to the first boss Firemane that a little light bulb went off over my head and I really “got it”. I was literally stopping the action after every turn and adjusting my characters actions, or making new decisions. It was for all intents and purposes a turn based encounter. Now, this is where I wish I was Tycho because I want to explain the combat system as I understand it, but I’m not sure I’m up to the task. When I think about playing FFX or IX and I think about the battles that take place between bosses I remember that I was never really in too much danger. When a battle pops up between your party and let’s say some wolves in X you just select attack on all your characters, maybe toss in a fire spell for fun and then watch the wolves bite it. Most of the time you weren’t sweating over what each character should use their turn for because a single miss step could mean game over. Sure you could f**k up and die but you really only had to get serious during boss fights and handful of other tough mobs. Most of the time, it’s just you selecting the same moves over and over, occasionally dropping a healing potion. Well all that FFXII has done is stream line that process. I’m not pushing “X” as much but I’m doing the same things. It was hard for me to get my head around at first because I wanted to believe I was doing more than that but I wasn’t. I wanted to believe that every fight in IX really required strategy but it didn’t. People feel like their being taken out of the driver’s seat, that the car is just on autopilot now. The truth is that you may have been driving the car before but the f***ing thing was on rails. You just grind through monsters until you hit a boss and that’s when the combat really gets interesting. It’s funny, I should have realized what was going on when I played Enchanted Arms. One of my favorite features of that game was the ability to have your characters just do the same move they did last turn. Rather then having to go and select in from the menu it was automatic if I wanted it to be. Obviously I could tweak it and change that when I wanted but much of the time I just want my healer to heal, my fighter to hit and my wizard to cast spells. The Gambit system lets me tell my characters how I want them to behave. At anytime I can stop the action and make adjustments but for a lot of stuff I don’t need to. All its doing is saving me the trouble of navigating five different menus to tell a character to do the same thing they did last time. When I hit a boss all of that changes. Just like in previous FF games, now I really need to think about what everyone’s doing. I have my gambits as a sort of failsafe running underneath but for the most part I’m stopping the action all the time to adjust each character’s target or change a spell. Everything I love about controlling multiple characters through a difficult turn based fight is right there. That’s the thing, the new system means the game is as deep as I want it to be whenever I want it to be. Well there, that’s how I feel about the new combat system. I hope that made sense even if you don’t agree. The rest of the stuff about the game isn’t as important I don’t think. I love the story but that’s because it’s Star Wars meets LOTR. Obviously not everyone is going to dig that. I think the writing and the voice acting are the best in an FF game to date. Again that’s open to interpretation. I think most importantly for me beyond just getting my head around the combat is that I really like these characters. For me it doesn’t get much better than Balthier. Like I said, everything else is secondary though. If you don’t like the gambit system and the way it affects combat then you won’t stick around long enough to enjoy the rest of it. I just felt like it was important to tell you guys how drastically my impression of the game changed over the weekend. Maybe it’s still not for you but I’d recommend giving it some time. You may find out that it’s exactly what you wanted. "
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Offline Shin Gallon

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RE: Final Fantasy XII sucks...
« Reply #72 on: November 06, 2006, 05:49:09 PM »
Yeah, I read that. I disagree. I don't like the Gambit system or how it affects combat, and I'm not sticking around in the game. I gave it some time. It's the complete polar opposite of "exactly what I wanted". I simply don't enjoy the game, period.
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RE:Final Fantasy XII sucks...
« Reply #73 on: November 06, 2006, 06:06:33 PM »
Quote

Originally posted by: Shin Gallon
Yeah, I read that. I disagree. I don't like the Gambit system or how it affects combat, and I'm not sticking around in the game. I gave it some time. It's the complete polar opposite of "exactly what I wanted". I simply don't enjoy the game, period.



Out of interest, how far did you make it before you quit?
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Offline Shin Gallon

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RE: Final Fantasy XII sucks...
« Reply #74 on: November 06, 2006, 06:31:47 PM »
I put about 5 game hours in, getting to the first boss that Gabe speaks of in his post. It was at this point that I simply got sick of arguing with the interface in the game and quit. I never used Gambits, I refuse to. I hate the MMO style the game has, I hate the interface, I hate the lack of random encounters that renders trying to run away useless, and allows more enemies to gang up on you mid-fight.
The only redeeming qualites of the game are the graphics, the story and the music. Basically everything but how it actually plays, I love. But the battle system simply refuses to let me like it. In every other Final Fantasy game, by the time I was 5 hours in I was in love with the game. That's simply not the case here, because for me the game's system is inherently flawed.
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