Author Topic: Final Fantasy XII sucks... (Read 47379 times)

Shin Gallon · « **on:** October 11, 2006, 08:51:13 AM »

This game has, hands down, the absolute worst battle system of any RPG I've ever played in my life. It's like playing a bad MMORPG, only offline, while the computer does almost all of the actual playing for you. You're basically just watching the game play itself. You make an initial selection for the enemy, select "Attack", then sit back while your character repeatedly hits him until he dies. You can interrupt this if you want to select something like "use potion", but apparently later on you don't even have to do that much because you can set the characters on auto pilot. To quote Gabe from Penny Arcade: "The game is masturbating"
And don't get me started on the voices...if I wanted to listen to bad fake British accents, I'd...wait, I DON'T want to listen to bad fake British accents.
Compared to the utter perfection that was Final Fantasy X's battle system, this is a joke. No, an insult. I've loved the Final Fantasy series ever since I played the first on on the NES in 1990. I've played every one released in English save XI, because I simply don't do MMOs. I can tell you my favorite moment from every game in the series, and why I love each one because they're different, but still fun and filled with interesting characters I care about and with intriguing plots to go through. And the plot to XII seems interesting. grand, epic war between nations makes for wonderful storytelling if done right, and from what I hear, it's done very well here. But they saddled it with boring non-gameplay that sucks every bit of fun one might have had with it by removing the player completely from the equation.
This game does not deserve the title "Final Fantasy". Hell, it's hardly even a game. You don't even play it. It's basically an interactive movie. In fact, if they'd just made it a 40 hour movie, I'd have been happier (as long as they'd given me a Japanese voices option).
And now, a short list of games with better battle systems than Final Fantasy XII:
Final Fantasy X-2
Final Fantasy X
Final Fantasy IX
Final Fantasy VIII
Final Fantasy VII
Final Fantasy VI
Final Fantasy V
Final Fantasy IV
Final Fantasy III (I'm guessing)
Final Fantasy II
Final Fantasy
Wild Arms
Suikoden
Suikoden II
Breath of Fire
Breath of Fire II
Breath of Fire III
Breath of Fire IV
Breath of Fire V
Chrono Trigger
Chrono Cross
Legend of Mana
Secret of Mana
Secret of Evermore
Xenogears
And any other RPG ever made that's NOT Final Fantasy XII.

Pale · « **Reply #1 on:** October 11, 2006, 08:59:29 AM »

So we are supposed to listen to you because it has a battle system similar to a genre that you "simply don't do"?

Hrmm.

Shin Gallon · « **Reply #2 on:** October 11, 2006, 09:12:39 AM »

No, because it has a battle system that basically removes you, the player, from the equation.

Pale · « **Reply #3 on:** October 11, 2006, 09:22:57 AM »

While I won't speak for Gambit mode, normal mode really does no less than, say, Tales of Symphonia.

So in Symphonia I constantly tap A and in this game it does that part for me. Other than that, same difference.

Shin Gallon · « **Reply #4 on:** October 11, 2006, 09:30:28 AM »

Gambit mode is the huge sticking point for me. I could learn to deal with the wretched MMO-style input if I still actually PLAYED the game, but once you've got Gambits set up, you're basically watching a movie that you occasionally walk around the screen during.

capamerica · « **Reply #5 on:** October 11, 2006, 09:36:30 AM »

I've only played the DEMO and while I do agree that it plays like a MMO which I to dislike alot. I wouldn't say it was that bad. But maybe it got worst since then.

If you want to blame someone for the new style blame the a$$wipes who B!tch about the fact that they are to much of a bunch of losers to deal with random monster attacks. God I freaken Hate these people who complain that they don't like RPGs cause they have random monster attacks. I wish Sqaure stayed with the FFX stlye.

Shin Gallon · « **Reply #6 on:** October 11, 2006, 09:37:52 AM »

Complaining about random encounters in an RPG is like complaining about special moves in a fighting game: Why are you even bothering?

Smash_Brother · « **Reply #7 on:** October 11, 2006, 09:42:40 AM »

Plenty of RPGs have gone without random monster attacks and been just fine. The Mana series comes to mind, and Tales allowed you to see monsters on the overworld so you could avoid them if you so desired.

Shin Gallon · « **Reply #8 on:** October 11, 2006, 09:43:45 AM »

I know, but people will play a Final Fantasy game (one of the good one, at any rate) and fuss about random encounters, as if they expected something else.

nitsu niflheim · « **Reply #9 on:** October 11, 2006, 10:19:41 AM »

No offense, but I think I will wait until I play the game at the end of the month to decide for myself. I played the demo that came with DQ8 and the only issue I had with the demo was trying to use items in battle, everytime I tried to use one, the character I was controller kept trying to run back to the monster that I was in battle with. I don't know if that was just somethng with the demo and how it was set up to show off a very limited aspect of the game or what. But it wasn't anything that kept me from not playing the demo.

I played Final Fantasy XI and the reason I didn't like the game had nothing to do with the battle system itself, but how the game was unneccessairily hindered for no reason other than to deprive the user so that you would be required to stick with the game for a long period of time, thus ensuring that Square-Enix got a monthly fee month after month. And the fact that you lost exp when you died and de-leveled if you didn't have a nice cushion of exp, which is a bad game design since you got very little exp per battle in the first place.

Bill Aurion · « **Reply #10 on:** October 11, 2006, 03:17:40 PM »

I tried out the XII demo a week back and I found it absolutely awful, boring, trite, and all-in-all uninspiring...Go Final Fantasy!

KDR_11k · « **Reply #11 on:** October 12, 2006, 06:59:20 AM »

Honestly, what were you expecting?

But then again I can't count your oppinion if you call FFX perfection. Grandia (2), that's perfection.

This game does not deserve the title "Final Fantasy". Hell, it's hardly even a game. You don't even play it. It's basically an interactive movie.

Most would argue that's what makes it deserve the FF name.

So in Symphonia I constantly tap A and in this game it does that part for me. Other than that, same difference.

That is not a very effective way of playing ToS.

I know, but people will play a Final Fantasy game (one of the good one, at any rate) and fuss about random encounters, as if they expected something else.

Well, YOU are playing a Final Fantasy game and complaining that it's a barely interactive movie.

Shin Gallon · « **Reply #12 on:** October 12, 2006, 07:47:20 AM »

Right, silly me for expecting the battle system in a game to be intresting and fun.
Grandia 2? You're joking, right? The only time the Grandia games were any good was the first one...on Saturn, not the crappy PSX port.
If you generally hate all FF games (and you obviously do), then why are you even wasting either of our times writing smartased comments to this post? It obviously doesn't concern you in the first place.

jasonditz · « **Reply #13 on:** October 12, 2006, 08:19:07 AM »

C'mon, Grandia 2 on the Dreamcast was very solid.

I haven't played XII yet (I have the demo, but I haven't popped it in), but the fact that in the demo you could win a boss battle without touching the controller... that's sort of a problem. Dragon Quest VIII unscored something I've been saying all along, RPGs are fine the way they are, and they don't really need a bunch of gimmicky twitch modes tossed onto them to make them enjoyable. In fact, half the time those modes are so ill-conceived that they ruin the game balance. RPGs are best left turn-based... if you want to add RPG elements to Adventure titles thats fine, but don't try to sell them to us as RPGs.

KDR_11k · « **Reply #14 on:** October 12, 2006, 09:57:44 AM »

Grandia 2? You're joking, right? The only time the Grandia games were any good was the first one...on Saturn, not the crappy PSX port.

The story was 08/15 clichee drivel but the battlesystem rocked hard. As opposed to FFX's battle system which usually ended up being "match enemy with the character that beats it". That was boring as hell.

RPGs are best left turn-based... if you want to add RPG elements to Adventure titles thats fine, but don't try to sell them to us as RPGs.

Adventure games are best left point & click based and without death. Perhaps you mean action games or realtime strategy. And I think that turn based RPGs should use a battlefield instead of placing the characters and enemies at an equal distance and just taking turns hitting each other. Turn based means you have enough time to devise and use complex strategies so there's no reason to limit the player to a system that's dumber than most realtime systems. Yes I know strategy RPGs do that but why aren't regular RPGs?

Perhaps I'm just looking at the wrong genre, I think games should depend more on skill than luck or the patience needed for level grinding. And I think skill should have enough ways to be expressed (instead of letting the player choose between the obviously correct and the obviously wrong approach).

WuTangTurtle · « **Reply #15 on:** October 12, 2006, 10:30:41 AM »

Again KDR i agree with almost everything you say, and strongly at that but If you are talking about Adventure games being left best to point & click I really hope you don't mean like MMO's. That type of battle system is the most boring piece of $hit ever created, or if your just referring to games such Sam & Max then okay.

Artimus · « **Reply #16 on:** October 12, 2006, 12:28:04 PM »

It'll get the best reviews of all time because it's SquareEnix and for the PS2.

Kairon · « **Reply #17 on:** October 12, 2006, 01:26:44 PM »

Quote
Originally posted by: ShaolinKilla
Again KDR i agree with almost everything you say, and strongly at that but If you are talking about Adventure games being left best to point & click I really hope you don't mean like MMO's. That type of battle system is the most boring piece of $hit ever created, or if your just referring to games such Sam & Max then okay.

There's some confusion about what exactly "adventure" refers to.

Adventure by itself, as used by KDR and mistakenly applied by you refers to games like Sam and Max, Leisure Suit Larry, and Monkey Island.

Action-Adventure, which you should have used, refers to games like Zelda or Secret of Mana. These games can also be called actio games, dropping the adventure moniker completely to focus more on the action aspect.

~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com

WuTangTurtle · « **Reply #18 on:** October 12, 2006, 01:27:34 PM »

i wouldn't be too sure that ff7 spin off Dirge of Cerberus didn't do so well in the reviews.

Athrun Zala · « **Reply #19 on:** October 12, 2006, 06:44:29 PM »

Quote
Originally posted by: Artimus
It'll get the best reviews of all time because it's SquareEnix and for the PS2.

Famitsu gave this one a 40/40.....so yeah XD

and Grandia 2's battle system rocked hard

IceCold · « **Reply #20 on:** October 12, 2006, 07:31:41 PM »

Vagrant Story

Shin Gallon · « **Reply #21 on:** October 12, 2006, 09:23:21 PM »

Quote
Originally posted by: Athrun Zala
Quote
Originally posted by: Artimus
It'll get the best reviews of all time because it's SquareEnix and for the PS2.
Famitsu gave this one a 40/40.....so yeah XD

They also gave Ocerina of Time a 40/40, and that's my least favorite Zelda game (Link to the Past still being my favorite, with Wind Waker a close second), and Soul Calibur, which is one of the more overated fighting game series if you ask me, so, yeah...I tend to take all reviews with a grain of salt, regardless of the source.

Smash_Brother · « **Reply #22 on:** October 13, 2006, 03:56:37 PM »

The fact that they gave this a 40/40 is insane. There is a BLATANT flaw in the controls in that you need to open a goddamn menu to attack an enemy. EVERY time you want to attack an enemy, you have to open a menu and select attack. Meanwhile, there are multiple buttons bound to perform the same functions, meaning that it would have been cake to map button presses to any one of the 3 commands which are in the menu.

I played it today for the first time and the fact that there was no QA at Square who would keep such a shoddy design from getting through is ridiculous.

It's not the lack of random monster attacks which kills this game: it's the fact that the interface should cost it a few points right off the bat.

The highest this game should have gotten is a 32. The fact that it received a 40 means that Famitsu has their heads rammed squarely up their asses (no pun intended). I actually want to punch these reviewers for such a blatant disservice to their craft.

capamerica · « **Reply #23 on:** October 13, 2006, 04:56:19 PM »

::cries::
God I hate this new system. I started playing it today and I can't stand the new combat system, Its just a pain to use. Why can't they have a easier system for targeting enemys?
I hope Sqaure goes back to the Final Fantasy X format for Final Fantasy XIII, All this system does is make me miss the old Random Monster Attack system.

Magik · « **Reply #24 on:** October 16, 2006, 12:47:46 PM »

Quote
Originally posted by: capamerica
::cries::
God I hate this new system. I started playing it today and I can't stand the new combat system, Its just a pain to use. Why can't they have a easier system for targeting enemys?
I hope Sqaure goes back to the Final Fantasy X format for Final Fantasy XIII, All this system does is make me miss the old Random Monster Attack system.

What exactly is so difficult about targetting enemies? To me Its pretty much the same as it always use to be.

I guess I'm the only person on this board that actually likes FFXII. I find the battle system pretty awesome, and quite frankly, a breathe of fresh air in the series. I like the fact that I can customize the battle system to however I want. If I want it to be like the old FFs where I micro-manage EVERY single action, I can easily do that or make it so I don't have to manage my other characters and let the AI do everything based on my choices.

I didn't like the battle system at first, just like many of you, but after I had more time to play around with it and really understand the system, I found the system quite fun.

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Author Topic: Final Fantasy XII sucks... (Read 47379 times)