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Originally posted by: Ian Sane
"If they stayed the same this generation and pumped out another Mario/Zelda/Metroid/Pokemon/Pikmin with a traditional controller, everyone would call them stale."
No one is suggesting this. Why is there this assumption that without the remote this is what Nintendo would do? Okay actually that probably is what Nintendo would do but that's not what they had to do or what anyone was suggesting they do. If Nintendo had released some killer new games with new concepts with a traditional controller they wouldn't have been called stale.
Any time people mention first party Wii or DS games that are "traditional" it's usually sequel, sequel, spin-off, sequel. Sometimes we get a new game but it's made by an unproven developer that used to make Olsen Twin games. Meanwhile the new first party franchises are stuff like Nintendogs, Brain Age, Electroplankton, and WiiSports. The new stuff is all aimed at non-gamers while all the "traditional" stuff is all sequels. Nintendo thinks that "hardcore" gamers just want the same old sh!t again and again. We DON'T. That stupid attitude is why "Who are you?" was a completely floparoo. Traditional gaming does not mean the same old sh!t again and again even if that's what Nintendo is trying to tell you and seemingly tries to demonstrate. Just because Nintendo's recent "traditional" offerings have been cookie cutter doesn't mean that ALL traditional games are or that Nintendo games even have to be. Nintendo has chosen to be stale because somewhere along the way they thought that all we're interested in are franchises.
That's what I don't like. Yeah I'll get traditional games from Nintendo on the Wii but it will be the same experiences I've had before because Nintendo isn't even trying to make new ones, unless they specifically target non-gamers.
Sigh, here we go again.
No one is saying the controller is required to make new gameplay experiences. On the same token, people like you shouldn't be saying it's unnecessary. There's no way to tell right now in the first year if it's going to give us amazing new experiences. It took a year on the DS, and it will take a year with the Wii. So you need to give it some time instead of being so closeminded about how it's incapable of doing something based on the fact that the first round of games are sequels/semi-sequels.
As for new concepts, they've tried to do so with their franchises. Metroid Prime 2 didn't sell because "it was too much like Prime," despite the fact that there's only two damn games in that franchise in 3D. The waterpack, which was actually really damn cool, eventually got tons of negativity hurled at it. Two racers on Double Dash likewise the same. Mario Party with a microphone was hated from the getgo (I never found out if the game worked well or not, but the point stands). Jungle Beat, despite being an amazing game, was a total flop.
So the innovation and attempts to be as such have been there, whether you like them or admit to them or not.
Do you own Chibi Robo? Odama? Mario DDR? Battalion Wars? Did you buy Viewtiful Joe and RE4 when they were exclusive? Did you get Pikmin 2?
It's no wonder Nintendo doesn't make a partygame Tennis game with new characters, because no one would buy it. And when they secure a few exclusives, no one buys them either. All of those games up there aren't the best in the world, but they are all easily solid games, and easily comparable to PS2 and Xbox games.
So then Nintendo gets a lot of flack tossed their way about how they don't innovate, don't give us anything new, and eventually just throw us Mario Sports. But they have tried, and everyone screams at how they are ruining franchises, how their new additions break the game, etc etc.
Well if you're not going to rent or buy the above, but you'll pay attention to Mario Sports, how is that Nintendo's fault?
Again, only N gets blamed for this to the degree they do, when Playstation has a new Daxter title every 6 months, followed by Daxter Sequel of the Year 2, which is just a Jak sequel. Microsoft sees fit to release new maps to games that are 2-3 years old, or recreate it with Lizardmen, or rerelease it in an LE with a whole 10 minutes of new stuff, or just send tons of patches downt he line.
I mean, I listen to people bitch about wanting Mario 64 2. They don't get it, but Sunshine appears. Then people bitch about how it's not Mario 64 2 AND bitch about how they want another Mario Platformer. So Nintendo offers up Galaxy. BUT PEOPLE BITCH IT'S A SEQUEL.
Wtf. You can't have it all 42 f*cking ways about how it's a sequel, but it's not a sequel you want, but it doesn't innovate, and if it does innovate the innovation sucks, or how it doesn't have this one exact small thing you want so bad, about how you wanted another sequel by now, etc etc etc etc.
It doesn't f*cking work that way. If people would shut up and take a look back at Sunshine, they'd actually see that it is getting dogged mercilessly from the "hardcore" crowd. And for what? 2 basic things - poor camera and some repetitive level structure. But god damn, the last time I played it, it still was amazing. Huge variety of things to do, absolutely incredibly level design, beautiful graphics, and silky controls. I learned how to deal with the camera because, gasp, I've been playing 3D games for several years now, so that doesn't matter. And the level design was more repetitive than I'd like, but it was eons further than all its competitors.
This is the sort of thing I'm talking about. You can't make N fans happy. They hate Wind Waker's graphics, but hate TP's as well. They don't like Chibi Robo because of how simple it looks. They say they love Pikmin, but they don't buy it or support the sequel. They don't get new IPs like Drill Dozer or Batallion Wars, and then whine when Nintendo apparently doesn't care about making new IPs. They refuse to buy Smash Bros because it lacks a certain character. They call Project Hammer and Disaster terrible games without knowing a thing about them, despite the fact that they will definitely be new IPs designed for the hardcore crowd.
There's so many people sitting there talking about how they think Nintendo has forgotten the traditional gamer, when absolutely everything they've done in the last several years has been nothing but pure devotion to that subset of the gaming population. The controller itself is proof of this - it is meant to simply AND immerse. Do you honestly understand how DIFFICULT it is to reach that sort of sweet spot? It hardly EVER happens in ANY industry. And yet STILL people call Nintendo this clueless, oafish company that hasn't gotten a clue, DESPITE doing things like spreading their franchises around, trying to actively solicit exclusives, and worry more about gaming substance than flashiness. They are the one company who has reevaluated themselves AND listened to ALL of their customers AND tried to help ALL of them, but STILL GET TORN APART LEFT AND RIGHT.
As a company, they've heard one thing in the last couple of years, and it's that NO GAME is good enough at this point.
And they got f*cking tired of it.
What else does Nintendo think about their so-called hardcore crowd when they refuse to touch half the traditional games they've brought out? Or refuse to try sequels with innovations to their design?
That group is nothing but a lot of talk and a lot of hot air. And they make up such a small fraction at this point that Nintendo might as well abandon them almost fully. And yet they won't. There's going to be new IPs, there's going to be more third party support, and there's going to be hardcore games coming down the pipeline for a while. And yet people will STILL find a way to spin it against that. That's hardcore muthaf*cking devotion from the big N, who years ago could have just EA'd and Insomniac'd and Naughty Dog'd and Polyphony'd and Bioware'd and Bungie'd it up to the end of time.
You call Mario Baseball a weaksauce sequel and spinoff because you want to tell yourself its an okay excuse on why to avoid those games. But they are incredible games. Huge party games with amazing multiplayer potential, and decent, polished single player.
That's just silly.
For as ungrateful as an audience as many people are, Nintendo could have just as easily made Mario expansion packs for the last 10 years. Or they could drop it all and make nothing but Brain Age.
And yet neither of those things are happening.
This is such a stupid argument I can't believe it's been going on for the last several years.
Topic: Grand Master Billy speaks on the Wii. (Read 45967 times)
