Author Topic: Sony getting hit Hard lately (Read 868853 times)

Ceric · « **Reply #1025 on:** November 30, 2006, 02:56:02 AM »

With Microsoft it just a drop in the Ocean of things people like to blame on them.

Only 200,000... Well I'm not to surprised but it is awfully low even with them cutting back twice. I see the PS3 having a short lifespan before a successor comes out. Even though it won't be that much better hardware wise it will be easier to produce.

Hocotate · « **Reply #1026 on:** November 30, 2006, 04:32:04 AM »

Quote
Originally posted by: Ceric

I see the PS3 having a short lifespan before a successor comes out. Even though it won't be that much better hardware wise it will be easier to produce.

...And come with a remote controller. :p

Arbok · « **Reply #1027 on:** November 30, 2006, 04:38:45 AM »

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Originally posted by: Hocotate
...And come with a remote controller. :p

That's what really scares me, though, considering how fast Sony was able to adapt a joystick and rumble into their PS1 controllers... I wouldn't even be incredibly surprised if Sony just axed the regular controller, screwed the early adopters, and slapped a remote into the PS3 package in place of a controller. Sony has all of their eggs in this basket too, if this fails they are in real trouble so I wouldn't be surprised to see the course of action that they might take.

KDR_11k · « **Reply #1028 on:** November 30, 2006, 05:33:54 AM »

I think they consider the tilt in the sixaxis good enough. Also consider that the sixaxis apparently has problems with the wireless connection sometimes while none of Nintendo's or Microsoft's controllers exhibit that problem. Motion sensing is even harder to implement and if they really tried to make a remote they'd probably produce something horribly flawed. Never mind that it'll probably have 20 buttons labelled with colorful polygons that any "nongamer" will stare at in confusion.

couchmonkey · « **Reply #1029 on:** November 30, 2006, 05:42:04 AM »

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Originally posted by: KDR_11k
Five star rating systems are great, IMO. More than a 10 point rating system is splitting hairs.

Problem is many rating systems have only 2-3 ratings for good games and the rest is various shades of suck. We'd rather know how good a game is than how bad.

Yeah, I'll give you that. I'm mostly reacting the 100 point scales that have become popular thanks to the likes of IGN - it's so fine that basically everything after the decimal point is pure opinion. 20 point scales like PGC uses are still kind of excessive, but they're reasonable. I like five point scales because they force the reader to take a look at the review and make a decision based on the facts rather than numbers. 10 points might actually be the best, I admit.

Now let's talk about Sony copying Nintendo. The thing is, Wii is more than just a controller. If Sony were to copy it, that would certainly be a blow to hardcore support, but Wii is about the entire user experience. The interface, the controller, the software, the price, the virtual console, and even the "cumbersome" friends codes are all geared towards creating a specific experience. Hardcore gamers might hop on PS3 if it properly copied the Wii controller, but look at it through the eyes of the new gamer:

- $500-$600 vs. $250
- "Virtual console": complex 3D games vs. simple 2D games (that are nostalgiac for lapsed gamers)
- Gran Turismo and SOCOM vs. Brain Age and Wii Sports

Edit: KDR, you took the word right out of my mouth. I don't think Sony realizes what the Wii remote represents yet, and I don't know if Sony has the guts to ditch its very generic, proven design for something so radical. It'll be interesting to see if Sony (or Microsoft) catches on soon enough.

Ceric · « **Reply #1030 on:** November 30, 2006, 06:30:45 AM »

Quote
Originally posted by: KDR_11k
I think they consider the tilt in the sixaxis good enough. Also consider that the sixaxis apparently has problems with the wireless connection sometimes while none of Nintendo's or Microsoft's controllers exhibit that problem. Motion sensing is even harder to implement and if they really tried to make a remote they'd probably produce something horribly flawed. Never mind that it'll probably have 20 buttons labelled with colorful polygons that any person will stare at in confusion.

Fixed...

I think Microsoft will stay where they are. From all accounts most people enjoy the 360 controller and I think a redesign wouldn't benefit Microsoft. There focus are games and gamers who like the more traditional controls and like. Plus beginning a multimedia hub in your living room. Which I have to admit if the 360 can link up with the Zune Marketplace and I can use a $14.95 Zune Pass to watch all my Saturday morning cartoons and other series when I want to in HD no less (Which makes me sad about Sci-Fi. All the shows are produced in HD but the channel is SD.) and have them queued up the day before or as a reoccurring thing so they be there ready to go in the morning I go buy an 360 at that point. Then you turned around and told me I could take them on the go and watch them while on trips and like. I might get a Zune then. Then after gettinga 360 I get Gear of War because I want to play that game.

Sony doesn't have anything like that on the Horizon that I'm interested in. Plus I hate the Shape thing with a passion I just can't remember them.

vudu · « **Reply #1031 on:** November 30, 2006, 06:31:08 AM »

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Speaking to Bloomberg, [Namco Bandi] said they need to sell more than 500,000 copies [each of Ridge Racer 7 and Gundam] worldwide to come out ahead.... And that's not just the case with launch games, either. Namco Bandai President Takeo Takasu says that will be the case for every PlayStation 3 game they release.

Link.

nitsu niflheim · « **Reply #1032 on:** November 30, 2006, 06:40:10 AM »

most games in general I think cap out at around 500K if even that, so to have to get to that number just to make a buck isn't good news.

Ceric · « **Reply #1033 on:** November 30, 2006, 06:40:19 AM »

Wow. I don't think there going to make there money back on Gundam from what I heard.

You know, I wonder what the developers take on games is.

couchmonkey · « **Reply #1034 on:** November 30, 2006, 06:42:57 AM »

Oh, that's horrible. Basically each and every game has to be a hit.

KDR_11k · « **Reply #1035 on:** November 30, 2006, 07:33:54 AM »

Well, guess there's no room for average games on the PS3, if your game isn't really awesome or lacks mainstream appeal you can just as well cancel it right away.

Spak-Spang · « **Reply #1036 on:** November 30, 2006, 08:23:55 AM »

Don't cancel it. Just make it for the Wii instead. And if you have a simple game idea, just sell it on Wii's virtual console and skip the manufacturing/marketing stage of development that wastes money.

BlackNMild2k1 · « **Reply #1037 on:** November 30, 2006, 06:38:54 PM »

Quote
Originally posted by: nitsu niflheim
most games in general I think cap out at around 500K if even that, so to have to get to that number just to make a buck isn't good news.

What sux even more is that they only have about 500k console out on the open market WW and that means all current games have to sell 1:1 with every console and I don't think any individual game has even broken 100k yet. I hope Sony provided all launch game providers with a sweet incentive deal to lessen the blow to the pocket otherwise I would be really really pissed that couldn't reach the production #'s that they promised over and over again right up until launch.

KDR_11k · « **Reply #1038 on:** November 30, 2006, 08:10:06 PM »

Don't cancel it. Just make it for the Wii instead.

Same as cancelling and restarting since you have to redo everything you made anyway. Including the fundamental game design if you want to make meaningful use of the remote (and while games will benefit from using it it still requires that the game design is built with the remote in mind instead of later deciding "hey, let's add Wii functionality to our finished game").

Blackn~1: I think that may be the reason they have no good third party games at launch, those third parties know they will have trouble making their money back.

couchmonkey · « **Reply #1039 on:** December 01, 2006, 03:54:29 AM »

Things that make you go Hmmmm... Sony promotes a bunch of employees involved in Playstation. There's nothing wrong with a promotion, right? Right in the middle of an incredibly botched product launch? And check this out, Kaz Hirai is taking Ken K's position, and Sony had this to say:

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Ken Kutaragi, who was in that role, will step aside and become chairman and group CEO of SCEI. What does this mean for him? A SCE spokeswoman said he will now, "focus on overseeing the entire operation rather than day-to-day business."

"Overseeing the entire operation"? Translation: "He's done enough damage to Playstation."

nitsu niflheim · « **Reply #1040 on:** December 01, 2006, 03:58:43 AM »

launch games generally go away very quick, unless they are stellar, so those launch games on the PS3 probably aren't going to reach 500K and like BnM said, they need to sell each game to each PS3 owner, and that's just not going to happen.

couchmonkey · « **Reply #1041 on:** December 01, 2006, 05:10:19 AM »

Oh yeah, I mean, Bandai Namco has already lost it's money on Gundam, and it will be lucky to make it on Ridge Racer...could happen, since at least that game doesn't suck, but it seems unlikely.

BlackNMild2k1 · « **Reply #1042 on:** December 01, 2006, 05:52:52 AM »

Quote
Originally posted by: KDR_11k

Blackn~1: I think that may be the reason they have no good third party games at launch, those third parties know they will have trouble making their money back.

But this is where the viscious cycle starts. I know NO 3rd party expects a 1:1 attach rate, I also know the only realistic expectation is maybe a 1:4 attach rate at or near launch and this # always gets smaller as you grow your install base, but that smaller # could actually mean alot more sales. Going by this 1:4 attach rate, that would mean that Sony would need about 2 million consoles in the open market just for them to hope to make a 1:4 attach rate, but how long until Sony has 2million sold? I mean they are only producing anout 30k a week in Japan and about 50-80k(?) a week in the U.S.? February or maybe March? Should the 3rd parties wait until European launch to release their games so that the install base is there to buy the games? Will Europe still get a launch in March if production stays this low?

Ceric · « **Reply #1043 on:** December 01, 2006, 06:21:01 AM »

Sony should have just pushed their whole launch to March 07 and been done with it. Though with Launch games Sony did initial promise the 2 million mark at a relative fast pace. So in the beganning it looked alright. Later on after the projects had some time under them and be to costly to move the number changed. Meaning some publishers are just stuck. At this rate sony is going to have a pretty big problem if they can't find a way to cheapen developement. (New API, better tools, etc.)

BlackNMild2k1 · « **Reply #1044 on:** December 01, 2006, 06:41:04 AM »

Which is why I said, "I hope Sony gave the Launch game providers some sort of incentive deal to soften the blow to the pocket." If Sony had told the truth, they might have delayed the release to a more promising time, or atleast made whatever it is multi-console to make that 500k sales mark that needs to be made just to break even/make profit.

Not only did Sony lie about launch quantities up until launch, they are still lying about them now too.
They are still touting 1 million consoles in the U.S. b4 end of 2006, but can they really produce 150k* a week for all of Dec.?

*number subject to change depending of if EA's #'s were right and what NPD Nov. #'s reflect the week after next.

MLS_man_64 · « **Reply #1045 on:** December 01, 2006, 06:52:32 AM »

Gran Turismo HD canceled!

http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php?story=11932

couchmonkey · « **Reply #1046 on:** December 01, 2006, 08:05:45 AM »

I actually see that as a positive step. The game was set to be an experiment in micro-transactions (buy the game for cheap, spend $100 on cars and tracks) and I'm not fond of micro-transactions at all. Now I hear they're actually going to give away some of the content online, which is really nice. Not to mention they are putting more effort into a real sequel instead of this GT4 remake.

It is one less game for the already small lineup, though.

capamerica · « **Reply #1047 on:** December 01, 2006, 08:55:24 AM »

We don't know if GT5 will keep the micro-transactions or not, all we know GT5 could still be what Sony has been talking about this whole time.

AS for GT:HD all Sony is doing now is just throwing the DEMO they showed off at E3 and TGS up on their download services. The game only has 1 track and 10 cars, plus you can't even play online with it. They might as well have just canned it all together, all its going to be is a reminder to Sony fans of one more broken promise.

stevey · « **Reply #1048 on:** December 01, 2006, 03:24:54 PM »

"Gran Turismo HD canceled!"

Great! Whole idea of "micro-transaction" in games is flawed.

Kairon · « **Reply #1049 on:** December 01, 2006, 06:55:40 PM »

Gran Turismo HD being cancelled is a good move for Sony. They can shunt the demo for "free" onto their online network as a bonus for PS3 owners (hey, it's free, why complain?) and they can take all their work and refocus it onto GT5, a new title instead of a port... and hopefully they can get that title out in 2008... they'll need it.

~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com

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Author Topic: Sony getting hit Hard lately (Read 868853 times)