Author Topic: Super Smash Bros. Brawl  (Read 464118 times)

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Offline GoldenPhoenix

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RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
« Reply #1350 on: February 20, 2007, 09:35:52 AM »
I really doubt we'd see 8 player since that would be a major resource hog and sacrifices would have to be made.
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Offline Smash_Brother

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RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
« Reply #1351 on: February 20, 2007, 09:37:47 AM »
Quote

Originally posted by: GoldenPhoenix
I really doubt we'd see 8 player since that would be a major resource hog and sacrifices would have to be made.


How so?

The GC handled 4 sets of Ice Climbers without slowing to a crawl. I doubt the Wii would be bogged down by local 8 player combat even if it did involve 16 eskimos.
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Offline NWR_pap64

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RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
« Reply #1352 on: February 20, 2007, 10:05:31 AM »
Quote

Originally posted by: Smash_Brother
Quote

Originally posted by: GoldenPhoenix
I really doubt we'd see 8 player since that would be a major resource hog and sacrifices would have to be made.


How so?

The GC handled 4 sets of Ice Climbers without slowing to a crawl. I doubt the Wii would be bogged down by local 8 player combat even if it did involve 16 eskimos.


I was able to slow the game down using the Ice Climbers. What you do is than in training mode you set 3 other Ice climbers, then ramp up the speed. Then, make sure to set the AI so that they can use the items. And finally, send as many Pokeballs as humanly possible and watch the game crawl to a halt.

Although I agree with Golden that the idea is perhaps too ambitious. Not that it can't be pulled off, but if they were having problems balancing 4 player battles, 8 player battles would be too much.

Not to mention that fans will NOT spend that type of money on 4 more controllers. So why waste time on a feature that you know people wouldn't spend so much money on, ESPECIALLY after the GBA/GC connectivity fiasco?  
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Offline Smash_Brother

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RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
« Reply #1353 on: February 20, 2007, 10:09:56 AM »
Quote

Originally posted by: pap64 Not to mention that fans will NOT spend that type of money on 4 more controllers. So why waste time on a feature that you know people wouldn't spend so much money on?


Actually, it's the fans who WILL spend that much money on controllers for 8 players.

I'm considering buying a $3,000 wide screen TV just for SSBB. You think $80 in classic controllers would slow me down?

Buying a GBA was an assload pricier than buying a $20 controller.

Nintendo has demonstrated time and time again that they have zero qualms with asking people to buy piles of additional hardware to utilize a specific feature. Don't forget how profit-oriented Nintendo is.

If anything, they'd push for 8 player support to sell all of the old GCN controller stock and push classic controllers out the door.  
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Offline NWR_pap64

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RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
« Reply #1354 on: February 20, 2007, 10:14:09 AM »
Quote

Originally posted by: Smash_Brother
Quote

Originally posted by: pap64 Not to mention that fans will NOT spend that type of money on 4 more controllers. So why waste time on a feature that you know people wouldn't spend so much money on?


Actually, it's the fans who WILL spend that much money on controllers for 8 players.

I'm considering buying a $3,000 wide screen TV just for SSBB. You think $80 in classic controllers would slow me down?

And SPEAKING of spending money on features...uhh, FOUR SWORDS?! GBA connectivity? FF: CC?! Buying a GBA was an assload pricier than buying a $20 controller.

Nintendo has demonstrated time and time again that they have zero qualms with asking people to buy piles of additional hardware to utilize a specific feature. Don't forget how profit-oriented Nintendo is.

If anything, they'd push for 8 player support to sell all of the old GCN controller stock and push classic controllers out the door.


You missed my updated post. I said that Nintendo wouldn't try that after the GC/GBA gimmicks flopped this past gen. I mean, I've yet to see Nintendo pull something similar with the Wii and DS.

If anything, they will likely try and implement the feature, but not make it the sole big feature of the game because not everyone can afford 80 bucks, even the hardcore fans.
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Offline Smash_Brother

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RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
« Reply #1355 on: February 20, 2007, 10:18:21 AM »
Quote

Originally posted by: pap64
You missed my updated post. I said that Nintendo wouldn't try that after the GC/GBA gimmicks flopped this past gen. I mean, I've yet to see Nintendo pull something similar with the Wii and DS.

If anything, they will likely try and implement the feature, but not make it the sole big feature of the game because not everyone can afford 80 bucks, even the hardcore fans.


You're talking about the same company that charges $5 for a NES game which they spend less than 10¢ of bandwidth on selling.

And $20 per additional player is FAR from unreasonable. Besides, they're ALREADY asking a Wii owner to spend $90 on GCN controllers as the alternative.

I don't think "Asking people to buy more stuff" would ever inhibit Nintendo's decisions. SSBB is unique in that it's just about the only Nintendo made game which specifically won't take advantage of the Wiimote. In essence, it's the only game that could offer 8 player gameplay without compromising itself.

Yeah, I know it isn't likely, but I think it would be absolutely awesome.

Also, consider that they could do another MK: DD game with 8 players on one screen as well...hmm...  
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Offline NWR_pap64

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RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
« Reply #1356 on: February 20, 2007, 10:24:52 AM »
Quote

Originally posted by: Smash_Brother
Quote

Originally posted by: pap64
You missed my updated post. I said that Nintendo wouldn't try that after the GC/GBA gimmicks flopped this past gen. I mean, I've yet to see Nintendo pull something similar with the Wii and DS.

If anything, they will likely try and implement the feature, but not make it the sole big feature of the game because not everyone can afford 80 bucks, even the hardcore fans.


You're talking about the same company that charges $5 for a NES game which they spend less than 10¢ of bandwidth on selling.

And $20 per additional player is FAR from unreasonable. Besides, they're ALREADY asking a Wii owner to spend $90 on GCN controllers as the alternative.

I don't think "Asking people to buy more stuff" would ever inhibit Nintendo's decisions.


The VC games don't count since they are separate gameplay experiences and aren't required to make anything complete.

But now that I think about it, Nintendo would come up with the conclusion that every Nintendo fanboy has already bought a classic controller for the VC games.

I realized that its doable. You win this one...for now.
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Offline Smash_Brother

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RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
« Reply #1357 on: February 20, 2007, 10:28:32 AM »
I "win" if they actually do include 8 player support...or at least 6 player. All I have is conjecture.

However, the Wii could easily become the ultimate party platform by allowing so many players to have input at the same time.

Someone recently pointed out that you can technically have 12 players in some games, like Bust a Move, since it uses the nunchuck as a player and, as we know from Wario Ware, having one player hold the mote and the other hold the chuck is considered perfectly fair game.
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Offline UltimatePartyBear

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RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
« Reply #1358 on: February 20, 2007, 10:43:03 AM »
I'd probably never be able to try it with eight actual people, but I approve.

Offline MaryJane

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RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
« Reply #1359 on: February 20, 2007, 11:14:34 AM »
Quote

Originally posted by: Adrock
Quote

MaryJane wrote:
but how would this happen? can you bring a character from one game to another? I see no reason for being able to carry them in your remote like a wii remote because their stats (in attack, defense, etc.) don't differ just because you've played more with them in your game.

I'm a bit confused over what you mean by "carring a character over." I guess I was unclear so allow me to rephrase. If I have the patch, I learn to use a patched Link or Peach. When I go to my friend's house (who doesn't have the patch because he's not connected), I'm at a disadvantage because I'm trying to play as the unpatched Link or Peach. Essentially, that creates 2 different characters. I see that as a problem.


O.K I see your point. I also agree with it, but I don't see it as being a major issue, I don't think they'd patch the chars too much, maybe add some new stages or characters. Then the only problem would be if who you're best with is a new character and your friend doesn't have that person, but then again the Wii is rather small, so you could always just bring it to their house.

 
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Offline Spak-Spang

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RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
« Reply #1360 on: February 20, 2007, 03:56:48 PM »
Their are numerous problems with the concept of an 8 player Smash Brothers.

1) The screen would have to be zoomed out and fixed, otherwise, it would be near impossible to keep track of everyone playing...specially when things start zooming in and out to fit everyone in the game.  And zooming out would probably make things too small to begin with.

2)Can you imagine the Frustration with trying to find room for 8 players to play the game comfortable?  This issue gets complicated when you combine it with the first.

3)Slow Down:  You stat that Ice Climbers could be played 4-players adding 8 potential players in a fight.  But I question the games responsiveness and overall playability of a game with 8 players being controlled by humans making split second changes in strategy and fighting maneuvers...I just really don't think 8 players would work.


There are two ways however, I think 8 player Smash Brothers Brawl COULD work if they had expert programmers and designers crafting it.  

1)LAN play.  Many of the above issues can be resolved with multiple screens and creative screen management.  Allowing for Screens to be locked on to the 4 players playing on that station the zooming in and out would be less extreme...and more playable.

2)Online Play, where the screen can focus on following one single character, as they fight...or possibly even two or more as they fight online.


Offline IceCold

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RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
« Reply #1361 on: February 20, 2007, 04:47:41 PM »
Yeah, LAN and Online are the two ways out of this, but I doubt the game would be able to handle 8 player online, if they're still testing with 2-player.
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Offline KDR_11k

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RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
« Reply #1362 on: February 20, 2007, 06:33:48 PM »
I don't think 8 players would be fun but I think the option would be good so evryone can see that for themselves.

Offline Smash_Brother

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RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
« Reply #1363 on: February 20, 2007, 07:56:46 PM »
Quote

Originally posted by: Spak-Spang1) The screen would have to be zoomed out and fixed, otherwise, it would be near impossible to keep track of everyone playing...specially when things start zooming in and out to fit everyone in the game.  And zooming out would probably make things too small to begin with.


Already happens in the Zelda Temple with 4 players and it has never been a problem.

Quote

2)Can you imagine the Frustration with trying to find room for 8 players to play the game comfortable?  This issue gets complicated when you combine it with the first.


Do you mean in the game or in the room? If you mean in game, levels like Zelda temple are amply large enough for 8. In fact, even levels like Corneria could have handled 8 without a problem. If you mean the room, then I can't help you there. Buy some beanbag chairs.

Quote

3)Slow Down:  You stat that Ice Climbers could be played 4-players adding 8 potential players in a fight.  But I question the games responsiveness and overall playability of a game with 8 players being controlled by humans making split second changes in strategy and fighting maneuvers...I just really don't think 8 players would work.


The Wii has already proven that it has enough processing power to handle 8 players with Bust A Move Bash. The only slow down I'd worry about is graphical and I think people severely underestimate the Wii if they think that will happen.

Quote

1)LAN play.  Many of the above issues can be resolved with multiple screens and creative screen management.  Allowing for Screens to be locked on to the 4 players playing on that station the zooming in and out would be less extreme...and more playable.

2)Online Play, where the screen can focus on following one single character, as they fight...or possibly even two or more as they fight online.


The whole point of the camera in SSB is that it shows you all of the fighters at once and (ideally) where the platforms below you are located. If players were off screen, it would ruin this, especially if said players were to fling items at you from beyond your range of view.

But like I said, the game already does this in SSBM without much issue.

I agree that 8 players would be ruthlessly hectic on small levels like battlefield, but most of the space in a level like Corneria or the Zelda temple is just wasted space. You have to consider that having 8 players together would be a rarity, but it didn't stop Taito from including the feature in their game and I don't see why it should stop Sakurai from including it in SSBB.

Not that it matters, though. Unless he happens to read NWR and agrees with my point of view, it'll likely just be 4 player again, though I hope that if we don't get online play, we at least get 8 player play.
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Offline Nick DiMola

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RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
« Reply #1364 on: February 21, 2007, 12:15:33 AM »
I don't care what anyone says, 8 player Smash Bros. would be boner inducing. I mean rock hard, bust through the pants boner inducing. If Nintendo can pull it off, which I don't see why not, they really should do it. 8 player hit detection and physics whould be nowhere near out of range for the Wii. If Elebits could handle the complicated physics it was doing, 8 player Smash can be done. I don't see the camera being an issue, and I don't really care if most people wouldn't have enough space, that's not an excuse to exclude it. If there are some limitations, such as all 8 players can't be Ice Climbers, make it so that once x number of people choose the Ice Climbers, the character spot is blacked out from usage. There are plenty of people out there who would go out and buy up everything they need to play 8 player Smash Bros., and I know I'm one of them. Not to mention I'd be willing to wait to have it included in the final release.
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Offline Smash_Brother

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RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
« Reply #1365 on: February 21, 2007, 05:02:16 AM »
Quote

Originally posted by: Mr. Jack8 player Smash Bros. would be boner inducing. I mean rock hard, bust through the pants boner inducing.


NEW QUOTE!
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Offline Ceric

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RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
« Reply #1366 on: February 21, 2007, 05:13:44 AM »
Quote

Originally posted by: Mr. Jack
I don't care what anyone says, 8 player Smash Bros. would be boner inducing. I mean rock hard, bust through the pants boner inducing. If Nintendo can pull it off, which I don't see why not, they really should do it. 8 player hit detection and physics whould be nowhere near out of range for the Wii. If Elebits could handle the complicated physics it was doing, 8 player Smash can be done. I don't see the camera being an issue, and I don't really care if most people wouldn't have enough space, that's not an excuse to exclude it. If there are some limitations, such as all 8 players can't be Ice Climbers, make it so that once x number of people choose the Ice Climbers, the character spot is blacked out from usage. There are plenty of people out there who would go out and buy up everything they need to play 8 player Smash Bros., and I know I'm one of them. Not to mention I'd be willing to wait to have it included in the final release.


I aready have a hard time seeing people as it is with 4 players.  Think of some of the zooming you have to do for large stages with 8 people.

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Offline Smash_Brother

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RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
« Reply #1367 on: February 21, 2007, 05:46:57 AM »
But that's the beauty of it: if you don't want it, don't use it.

No one was complaining about SSBB only having four players prior to this so why would anyone take issue with it being able to go up to 8, since they're never forced to use it? Also, remember that SSBM offered 6 players when you battled the fighting polygon team (you and 5 CPUs).
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Offline Smash_Brother

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RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
« Reply #1368 on: February 21, 2007, 06:25:01 AM »
STOKE THAT FIRE, BAYBEEE!!!!

From the list of Nintendo's releases for 2007...

Mario Party 8, Sometime 2007, One~Four Players

Mario Strikers Charged Sometime 2007, One~Four Players

Super Smash Bros. Brawl Sometime 2007,
Players TBA!?!?!?!?!?!?

MUAHAHAHAHAHHA!!!!

*ahem*

Yeah, it could mean nothing, but I think it would be safe to assume that SSBB would be 4 player, so why would Nintendo have it listed as TBA?

Also...

Wii Brain Softening Game April 26th, One~EIght Players

MORE 8 player love!!!!
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Offline Bill Aurion

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RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
« Reply #1369 on: February 21, 2007, 06:26:15 AM »
Quote

Originally posted by: Smash_Brother
Yeah, it could mean nothing, but I think it would be safe to assume that SSBB would be 4 player, so why would Nintendo have it listed as TBA?

Uh oh, 2-player Smash Brothers confirmed!
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Offline Artimus

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RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
« Reply #1370 on: February 21, 2007, 06:30:44 AM »
Hahaha, I noticed that on the release list and just came here to comment.

Offline Blue Plant

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RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
« Reply #1371 on: February 21, 2007, 06:30:54 AM »
4 player offline, 2~3 online?

Offline Smash_Brother

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RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
« Reply #1372 on: February 21, 2007, 06:34:11 AM »
Quote

Originally posted by: Blue Plant
4 player offline, 2~3 online?


It would still list as 1-4, though.

They're always going to list the highest number of players who can play the game at the same time and I expect that to be 4 players.

Sorry, I just love conspiracy theories, but I think that's a known fact by now...
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Offline decoyman

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RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
« Reply #1373 on: February 21, 2007, 06:40:05 AM »
"But that's the beauty of it: if you don't want it, don't use it."

I don't think it's that simple, SB. If it impacts the overall experience negatively for significant numbers of players (camera has to be zoomed too far out, making the characters too tiny to see clearly on all but the largest tvs), Nintendo likely wouldn't put the effort into implementing the feature. There's also the obstacle of controllers for local play. The Bluetooth can only handle (I think) 7 connections, so you'd need to have Cube controllers as well, further complicating the matter. (If it's online, they don't need to worry about this last point, of course.)

If they can overcome the issues and get it running, and it's as much fun as 4-player (or MORE!), I'm all for it. I can't help but thinking that 4 players is the ideal number, though...  
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Offline Smash_Brother

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RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
« Reply #1374 on: February 21, 2007, 06:54:12 AM »
Did anyone have a hard time on the Corneria level when you had people fighting at either end of the stage? I personally didn't, and I wouldn't imagine that 8 players would stretch the camera any further than that.

Granted, not every level would comfortably house 8 players, but that's why we have big levels and small levels.
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