Topic: Revolution no more-Nintendo Wii

[Smash_Brother]

Quote
Originally posted by: Ceric
Winnie the Pooh has had Generations to live down its Stigma.  In fact it might have something to do with the origin of the world.  I'm sure once thw Wii gets as old as Winnie the Pooh it will just be a note in eclectic history.

That's the other thing: even the iPod didn't take off until 2-3 years after its creation and several revisions to make it better.

Nintendo has basically strapped themselves with the most difficult task ever concocted in marketing history: take a non-revisable console with a flaccid, laughable name and sell it to people who have never bought a console it in the past and likely don't want one.

Even Apple, with their billion dollar ad campaigns and "hip and trendy" marketing couldn't get the iPod to that status in fewer than 2 years, and now Nintendo basically needs to do it in 1 year (assuming that most will have already made their console decisions by then).

Unless Nintendo has hired the biggest marketing firm in the world, then I can't see this ending well...

[Kairon]

Wow, you guys really are determined to view this in negative terms aren't you?

I mean, here's a kid's character, sold to 6-year olds and 11-year olds, sure to be the brunt of scatological references, and he was a smash hit not just as ye olde literature but as a saturday morning cartoon for chrissake.

If little children can easily look past "Pooh" bear's alternate meanings at the very moment of inception, why are you incapable of it? If "Pooh" bear is beloved by all, kids, adults, college buddies with fond memories, how exactly is that a bad thing?

You guys seem allergic to anything that doesn't strike you as fitting into the modern notion of "hip" and "cool" and "accepted." Wii is challenging current notions about who plays games and why remember?

And then you go on to say that Nintendo will need to market it. Well, duh. Nintendo would need to market it no matter what it's called. But the negatives due to the word's scatalogical references should quickly grow moot, the "immaturity" you fear didn't materialize for Pooh, and now we're back to a simple question: Is this successful branding?

On that score, Wii is certainly going to gain attention.

~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com

[Smash_Brother]

Quote
Originally posted by: Kairon
If little children can easily look past "Pooh" bear's alternate meanings at the very moment of inception, why are you incapable of it? If "Pooh" bear is beloved by all, kids, adults, college buddies with fond memories, how exactly is that a bad thing?

We just explained it: Pooh has had 20+ years for people to get over the name and become accepted, and guess what? Pooh is STILL a children's character.

Nintendo doesn't have that kind of time and they could stand to curry some favor with the older gaming market, considering that they're the ones who are buying the most games.

[Mario]

Aren't children supposed to be more inclined to make wee and poo jokes than adults? Yet... the kids love Winnie the Pooh.

... and some of you are worried about ADULTS making "wee" jokes and not liking the Wii? This is making less sense as each day passes.

[Kairon]

Do you mean to tell me that Pooh was a controversial figure for 20 years while Disney was pushing him, and miraculously he got famous after all that leg work? Ridiculous, Disney woulda tossed him like a Piglett on a blustery day.

And the fact that Winnie the Pooh is still a children's character is irrelevant, and possibly even false. Disney never even tried to market him as anything else, which is why you automatically assume it's impossible. Yet I stumbled upon my late '20s cousin reading The Tao of Pooh, using Pooh Bear as an introduction to Taoism. There's also a The Te of Piglet I recently discovered. I hardly think that this New York BestSeller Book was marketted to kids, do you?

~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com

[mantidor]

Pooh is children stuff, and I mean 3-6 year olds, thats a terrible comparison.

Edit:

hahaha, are you seriously saying that Winnie the Pooh can be succesfully marketed at older people? that because it didnt happen doesnt mean its inpossible? and the examples you give are also non-sense. that material is hardly mainstream for any adult. Besides, its not just 20 years, try 80, the creator made Winnie in 1926.

I can see theres a chance for "Wii" to be marketed, but comparing it to Winnie the Pooh is a VERY flawed comparison, saying that the name can make the product mainstream for adults because its popular with children makes no sense at all.

[Kairon]

*ahem* The adult market for Pooh branding has never been tested, aside from the books I mentioned above which were introductions to Taoist philosophy, New York Times Bestsellers, and DEFINITELY not kid's stuff. In the one instance of Pooh merchandising beyond Disney's permanent focus, Pooh has been a smashing success.

~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com

[mantidor]

again, Pooh is 80 years old, it was mainstream already, if they decided to make a taoist book using the pooh bear is because the bear is already famous enough, and inspires nostalgia and friendly-ness (lol invented word). Nintendo cant use the kind of success of an odd taoist book, it needs the kind of smashing success that the Da Vinci code has.

Lets say they make "the tao of Wii", which has no previous references, do you think it will sell as well as the tao of pooh has? dont make laugh.

[Ian Sane]

I'd like to mention that my Dad always misspells "poo" (as in dung) as "pooh" because of Winnie.

Ignoring the piss issue I think Wii just sounds really childish, much like pooh.  Winnie the Pooh is for kids.  Nintendo is thought of as such but shouldn't be.

The only adults I've met who are even remotely interested in Winnie the Pooh are women.  No male over the age of 10 wants anything to do with him.

[eljefe]

pooh is fresh

I'm over ten and I dug the HEFFALUMP movie

Granted, I went with my neice.  

[eljefe]

more importantly

I haven't thought of a "pooh = dung" joke in years.

funny...to properly complete the joke you have to double it up: Pooh--> poo-poo / Wii --> wee-wee


THANK YOU INTERNET FOR HAVING ME OVER ANALYZE (omg ANALyze) POTTY HUMOUR!


See how childish that is..?

[Kairon]

Quote
Originally posted by: mantidor
again, Pooh is 80 years old, it was mainstream already, if they decided to make a taoist book using the pooh bear is because the bear is already famous enough, and inspires nostalgia and friendly-ness (lol invented word). Nintendo cant use the kind of success of an odd taoist book, it needs the kind of smashing success that the Da Vinci code has.

Lets say they make "the tao of Wii", which has no previous references, do you think it will sell as well as the tao of pooh has? dont make laugh.

Ugh, Davinci Code. I hated that book, lol.

The example of Pooh is to show how secondary connotations of the word are ultimately irrelevant. Everyday little kids are getting introduced to "Pooh Bear" for the first time ever, probably after they've already learned what goes down the toilet, and yet the Pooh brand remains strong amongst it's new inductees who don't benefit from 80+ years of branding.

Also, Pooh demonstrates what Yahoo and Google do not: that adults are receptive to scatological names outside of scatological context and made relevant to their own lives.

The only thing tiku tiku tiku!  about a name or a franchise is it's utility. The moment someone, gamer, casual-gamer, or non-gamer, sees how Wii is relevant to them, how it plays and how it changes how they perceive games, then other considerations lessen in importance.

~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com

[NWR_pap64]

Hey! Don't be dissing Winnie the Pooh! He is a freaking bad ass in Kingdom Hearts 2! Destroys half of the 100 acre wood and everything!

One thing I must mention. You guys are saying that Nintendo needs to shake it's tiku tiku tiku!  image. I agree with that. But do you know which is Nintendo's must popular franchise EVER?

...

...

...That's right, Pokemon.

Pokemon was a game that looked like it appealed to young children (and it did). But it became a MASSIVE pop culture phenomenon. And the main reason that the franchise became a hit was because of how great the games were. True, not all of them were fantastic games, but the main RPG games hooked a lot of gamers, not just children, thanks to it's simple but deep mechanics and mass appeal.

Pokemon then went on to star in movies, cartoons, CDs, live stage shows, Thanksgiving day parade balloons and floats and THEME PARKS. Can you mention any other Nintendo franchise that has gained this much status? Sure, the hype has died down, but the games are STILL selling like pancakes, even when the games are simply expansions of the better games. And this is coming from a franchise that is considered to be tiku tiku tiku!  at first glance.

IMO, this is what Nintendo needs to do. They need to create that next franchise that grabs people and doesn't let them go. Same thing with the Wii. It needs to create SOMETHING that will make sure people pay attention and ACT.

Another example of a "tiku tiku tiku! " game that went beyond it's image, Kingdom Hearts.

Kingdom Hearts was an idea that everyone hated in the beginning. I mean, an RPG, done by SQUARE of all people, featuring a lot of cute characters, including freaking Winnie the Pooh and co existing with, GASP, FINAL FANTASY VII CHARACTERS??

*Faints

But wait, once people gave it a try, it became a roaring success. I mean, the game was FAR from perfect. It really was. But the magic of the game captured a lot of people in.

Both Square and Disney made sure this game was MORE than just a tiku tiku tiku!  licensed game. It told people that it was an epic that will capture your imagination and keep you hooked till the very end. Nintendo, once again, needs to do that. That even if their games have a cute exterior to them but are unforgetabble gaming experiences. We all know Nintendo can easily do that, but they need to SAY IT.

...I wonder how a massive RPG starring Nintendo's characters would work out...

[mantidor]

But Pokemon is not aimed at the "non-gamer", is in fact, a game that turns off the people who dont play games, and not just the kid stuff but the gameplay dynamics, and that goes against Nintendo's direction.

[The Omen]

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Aren't children supposed to be more inclined to make wee and poo jokes than adults? Yet... the kids love Winnie the Pooh.

*sigh* Your responses make less sense with each passing day.  Kids making pee and wee jokes think that's fun and funny, so of course they have no problem liking winnie the pooh.  Your lame analogy makes no sense whatsoever.

Nobody is worried about pooh and wee wee jokes anyway.  We're worried about a ridicuolous name hurting Nintendo in terms of marketing.  Take the goddamn wee=urine garbage out of the equation for a moment-Wii by itself is just a hard name to market because 1) nobody knows how to pronounce it and 2) once they can pronounce it, they then have to have it explained to them what it means.  How in the f'n world any of you think that's good marketing is beyond me.  And to sh*t on people who have legitimate concerns is just asinine.  I respect your opinion to a point, but when you answer in a snarky manner, or a condescending manner such as Bill, what kind of response do you expect in return?
 

[Kairon]

Hey, don't diss Pokemon. My UNCLE, who's a PC Gamer and was recently addicted to Sega's arcade game Derby Challenge (or something like that) played Pokemon non-stop when it came out. He even bought Pokemon yellow and the GameBoy color when it came out.

The only thing that trapped Pokemon as a kid's franchise is that it wasn't sold as much else through merchandising and animation. Otherwise, if the series had kep innovating and remaining ambiguous, I bet my uncle would STILL be playing Pokemon.

And the fact is that Pokemon actually contained a hint of the non-gamer in it. The trading and collecting aspect? That's something that evoked social connectivity and that got lots of people playing, from PC gamers to young schoolchildren to girls (who themselves were just recovering from the tamagotchi craze). In a way, Pokemon's collecting and trading aspects live on in the non-game Animal Crossing.

And Omen, Wii may be undefined but that's why they chose it. They deliberately don't want a literal name. You are meant to play with it.

It immediately evokes curiousity, and to figure out what it is you need to investigate it.
Play with it high-brow if you like, play with it low-brow if you like, but just play with it. Be curious and explore it.

Remember how they said their problem will be getting people to actually get people to try the console because of the new control input? This is their answer: They're going to ask people to play with it.

~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com  

[NWR_pap64]

Quote
Originally posted by: mantidor
But Pokemon is not aimed at the "non-gamer", is in fact, a game that turns off the people who dont play games, and not just the kid stuff but the gameplay dynamics, and that goes against Nintendo's direction.

Yeah I know what you are saying. But what I mean is that just as Pokemon captured the gamer market greatly, they need a game that easily captures the non gamers/casual gamers.

Something like the Brain training games. Those are HUGE in Japan! Even dethroning games like Final Fantasy XII!

They need to find games that attract people like this and ADVERTISE THE HELL OUT OF IT!

[Caterkiller]

Thinking of Winnie the Pooh, I would think, would make some of you find Wii more acceptable. And you know Winnie the Pooh isn't marketed just towards young children, it is very big with teenage girls. I work in a theme park, playing different characters, running around taking pictures all day. And because of the Hot Topic on our lot we get alot of ladies with Pooh, Tigger, and Tinker Bell shirts with all kinds of little smart or sassy comments on them. Teenage and adult people(mostly women) love those characters, and don't just see them as something just for children.

And almost everytime someone comes up to me for a picture with a Winnie the Pooh shirt, I always go "you know you have poo on your shirt?" and then we have a good laugh. But we never stop to think about why his name is Pooh or anything, no one cares, even if he has had years upon years to get settled into society. My 50 year old mother can't remember a time when they were ever put off by Winnie the Pooh's name.

Oh and I see Wii as a strong word, when I see it I want to know what it is. Thats just me though, im pretty open minded.  

[heinous_anus]

I'm not so sure that Pooh is an awesome example.  The Wii is going to be marketed towards "everyone," well, "everyone else" also.  Pooh, as are all or most Disney cartoons, is specifically marketed towards children.  This does not mean adults cannot appreciate Disney, but it's apples to oranges. If you are aiming to regain market share with everyone else, why pick an ambiguous name that at best evokes the thought of a child's plaything?  Also, did "pooh" carry the same scatological connotations in the 1920s as it does today?

I'm amazed that so little response has been put forth to Omen's primary 2 points, so I'll regurgitate them. 1) Pronouncement among people who have not heard nor read of the console is not automatic ("is it 'whyy?' 'weee?') 2) Once pronouncement is achieved, they have to be told what it is.

Kairon, do you have laryngitis of the hands or something?  You keep "aheming" in front of all your posts.
 

[The Omen]

Quote
I'm amazed that so little response has been put forth to Omen's primary 2 points,

Nobody likes me :-(

[Smash_Brother]

Quote
Originally posted by: The Omen Nobody likes me :-(

I hear you loud and clear, and you cited two of my biggest concerns.

The answer is advertising, advertising and MORE advertising. Like I said, 1 of every 10 ads in the 2 months before the Wii's launch should be an ad for the Wii, period.

This is Nintendo's last chance to shine in the console market and they actually have something which will sell this time. If they don't provide the advertising necessary to get the word out, it'll be their own stinginess when it comes to the advertising budget which killed them.

[Artimus]

Quote
Originally posted by: Smash_Brother
Like I said, 1 of every 10 ads in the 2 months before the Wii's launch should be an ad for the Wii, period.

Uhhhh...there's this thing called "money" that you have to pay for ad time with. 1 of every 10 ads for 2 straight months would cost probably a billion dollars. And that'd just be for ABC, NBC, CBS and FOX in Prime Time. Smash_Brother, meet reality.

[NWR_pap64]

Quote
Originally posted by: Artimus

Quote
Originally posted by: Smash_Brother
Like I said, 1 of every 10 ads in the 2 months before the Wii's launch should be an ad for the Wii, period.

Uhhhh...there's this thing called "money" that you have to pay for ad time with. 1 of every 10 ads for 2 straight months would cost probably a billion dollars. And that'd just be for ABC, NBC, CBS and FOX in Prime Time. Smash_Brother, meet reality.

Stop being such a meanie...

I think what S_B meant is that Nintendo should put more effort into the advertising than usual. IE, don't create the best ads and have then air every once in a while.

For example...People listen up!

Raise your hand if you have seen commercials for Brain Age, Super Princess Peach, Tetris DS and Metroid Prime hunters more than once in a lot of channels...

Sure, they come up, but they don't come up often enough.

[Smash_Brother]

Quote
Originally posted by: Artimus Uhhhh...there's this thing called "money" that you have to pay for ad time with. 1 of every 10 ads for 2 straight months would cost probably a billion dollars. And that'd just be for ABC, NBC, CBS and FOX in Prime Time. Smash_Brother, meet reality.

Artiums, meet the DS. It brought in $800 million last year alone.

Aside from that, if properly and ADEQUATELY marketed, they can turn the Wii into the next iPod, and that'll net them billions upon billions.

I'm exaggerating in the amount of ads I mentioned, yes, but not by a lot.

This is Nintendo's last chance at the home console market. In the words of Bon Jovi, "It's now or never."

[The Omen]

Quote
Uhhhh...there's this thing called "money" that you have to pay for ad time with. 1 of every 10 ads for 2 straight months would cost probably a billion dollars. And that'd just be for ABC, NBC, CBS and FOX in Prime Time. Smash_Brother, meet reality.

I thought Nintendo is doing great because they were the only console maker to bring in loads of cash?  How about using 1% of it to secure a bigger cut later?