Topic: Metroid Prime 3: Discussion with Series Producer

[King of Twitch]

I would agree to teleportation in the next Metroid, it could fit well in the sci-fi universe especially since there was a type of it in MP2. It could make for another nice backstory with the space pirates.

[Bill Aurion]

She loses all her mistery and game companies cant help to sexualize thier female characters, like the art of Metroid Zero Mission, and I dont care if Bill liked it, it was disgusting

Metroid Prime 2...  And there's really no mystery to Samus to being a woman anymore, so who cares if she's out of her suit at the end?  (And the first Prime's Samus art is horrible...HORRIBLE...MP2/Zero Mission Samus for the win!)

[Sir_Stabbalot]

I've always thought of Samus as an old soldier with a worldy weariness. Because that's really what she is, a warrior trained to get revenge on those Space Pirates that destoryed her home. Honestly, she's the only non-sexualized female character in video gaming nowadays... Except Zelda and Peach.

In the next Metroid Prime, I want to see a MASSIVE boss, big enough to dwarf quadraxis. So huge that you can't damage it from the ground and have to use the grapple beam to reach its weak spots.  

[nemo_83]

I like the nonlinear world with items (that can be used any time during combat) that act as keys to areas out of reach or simply blocked (or are needed to defeat a boss).  I would imagine the next Metroid more like Zelda with an open key world and all in door areas like we have had in the two Prime games as, well, in door areas like temples in Zelda.  

It's pretty safe to say they are doing vehicles in the next game considering the E3 video.  The question is will they be slapped in poorly or will the game be built from the ground up with ships and tanks in mind for deathmatch and single player/coop.  Will it be a sparkling innovation only allowing player two to control the ship during coop or will vehicles be an open option for traveling distances outdoors and fighting enemies anytime like GTA, Zelda, Halo, or an ideal Star Wars game.  I want to actually get in the ship while in first person rather than the camera switching the third person behind the ship automatically when Samus gets in to drive.  

I think Samus was created originally as a bounty hunter to keep the character from being flat, noone likes a boring hero with no faults; I like the idea that money is her initial motive and they need to show that in the next game.  

And the grapple beam (with its limited reach) would only allow jumping to involve greater distances and hights.  It wouldn't make platforming pointless.  Plus with a rocket pack there should be as many advantages as disadvantages to using it; yes, you may reach new hights but you won't be as agile.  

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

Fine.  Give Samus the Bunny Hood.

I agree 2D backtracking seems to not be a big deal.  But I think, in addition to faster mechanics in the 2D games, the fact that the game map scrolls by with minimal on-screen time factors a lot into feel -- just "see-and-forget."  Whereas in the 3D viewpoints you usually see where you're heading, so large portions of the room remain on your screen -- you feel like you're in the room longer.

Unlocking MULTIPLE new areas from an existing room I still want to see.  "Resident Evil 4 Starring Samus" I do not.

I've never encountered the "Boredom Monster" in the Metroid Primes.  Must be some hidden boss on your disc.  Samus never complained either.
~~~~~
I acknowledge what trees are growing on your side of the fence, but I'll remain on my side.

[mantidor]

Quote
Originally posted by: Bill Aurion
She loses all her mistery and game companies cant help to sexualize thier female characters, like the art of Metroid Zero Mission, and I dont care if Bill liked it, it was disgusting

Metroid Prime 2...  And there's really no mystery to Samus to being a woman anymore, so who cares if she's out of her suit at the end?  (And the first Prime's Samus art is horrible...HORRIBLE...MP2/Zero Mission Samus for the win!)

BOOOOOOO!

And do you people really think that this isnt a sexualized deciption of her? or that this isnt just plainly superior?

this one is better though.

And I like very much japanese animation and comics, but for it to fit with the Prime games they should be cellshaded or something, after all I liked fusion's artwork, but ZM is disgusting, DISGUSTING I tell you

[Hostile Creation]

"In the next Metroid Prime, I want to see a MASSIVE boss, big enough to dwarf quadraxis. So huge that you can't damage it from the ground and have to use the grapple beam to reach its weak spots."

People will say it rips of Shadow of the Colossus, even if it did turn out to be twice as much fun.  Which is totally possible.
Prof put it will when he said: "I acknowledge what trees are growing on your side of the fence, but I'll remain on my side." And I happen to be on his side.

I preferred the MP1 art.  It wasn't great, but the one from 2 bothered me for some reason.  She looked too fake, I think for a game that realistic graphically she should match that.

[Ian Sane]

I can think of two problems with the idea of adding vehicles.

First of all most vehicles in games that otherwise don't revolve around vehicles SUCK.  They design them using the engine of the game which is ill suited for driving and the whole thing feels clunky and horrible.  Or there's Rebel Strike which has the opposite problem.  The only way to make it work is if the dev basically designs two games: the person one and vehicle one.  It's doable but it takes a lot of dedication.  Otherwise one or both components suffer.

Second of all vehicles require wide open spaces.  Metroid doesn't have many wide open spaces.  The very design of the game requires that wide open spaces be very uncommon.  So Retro would be stuck.  If they added too many open spaces the game would cease to feel like Metroid but without them vehicles would be damn near impossible to use.  The best they could do is have a few parts of the game that use vehicles but I find that sort of thing forced.  I'm of the idea where if you let me do something I should be able to do it in 90% of the game.  That's why Yoshi is Super Mario World is cool.  I can use him in every level except for castles and ghosthouses.  In Super Mario Sunshine Yoshi is lame because I can really only use him at certain points in the game where the designers decided he was to be used.  Vehicles like that are equally lame but with Metroid that's probably the best we could get.

[Bill Aurion]

Quote
Originally posted by: mantidor
[And do you people really think that this isnt a sexualized deciption of her?

I really don't...And this is from someone who truly respects women...Maybe if you showed skin, yes, but putting her in a body suit does nothing of the sort...

[kirby_killer_dedede]

WTF?  Getting lost a lot?  I found I never got lost thanks to the phenomenal map system MP had.

[Smash_Brother]

Anyone have a link to the MP3 trailer?

The only vehicle I could see as plausible is her ship or maybe a means of faster transportation which she could employ. It'd be nice if you could call the ship to any location above ground and have it carry you around the map.

As for the "Boredom Monster", I still haven't beaten it, but it could more accurately be called the "Discouragement Monster", as it's not the boredom so much as the knowledge of the upcoming boredom as I make my way back to the places I've already been but could not yet enter.

[mantidor]

Its the angle of the shot more than anything, in the MP1 art shes absolutely naked, yet it doesnt feel as sexualized as that one for me.

But being honest is just a minor complain of mine. I do think though that it should at least match the game's art direction, something Echoes didnt. And if they really give her missions outside the suit oppose to my wishes, it would be even more important to follow the art style of the whole game.

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

If a game seems to have hit a dead end for you, why not drop a line in the Gameplay Help section?  You know, at least get the whole adventure over with before putting too much thought into the sequel.  You might find more to look forward to, or complain about; but at least the present experience can be complete.

[ThePerm]

god i hate the map system in mp! it looks cool and  all,  but it  does't  help  me much, plus  the  damn thing  repositions itself everytime you move.

[kirby_killer_dedede]

You sir, are insane.

[Mario]

I enjoyed backtracking in both Metroid Prime 1 and 2, moreso in 1 because of the variety in the environments. I guess it's because i'm not the kind of gamer who gets sick of something after seeing it once and throws a game in the bin after beating it. One of Metroid Primes greatest accomplishments to me is how the environments immerse you in the world, and I don't mind going back to a room i've already been in because most likely it's an awesome room, and heck, I just love walking around in the game.

I did have a few issues with MP2 though, one that sticks out is the progression of the game, I just had to guess which way to go sometimes because not much made sense, and also the dark world -while having some good ideas- was too dull overall. It's been a while since i've played it though, and i've only beat it once unlike Prime 1 which i've beaten a million times. This topic makes me want to play through both again...

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

Quote
Originally posted by: ThePerm
god i hate the map system in mp! it looks cool and  all,  but it  does't  help  me much, plus  the  damn thing  repositions itself everytime you move.

Call me nuts.  I played MP2 with the hints turned off to 1) prevent the game from holding my hand 2) reduce the linearity of the game.  I say the map system is GREAT because without it, the way it is, I would never have finished the game (in time to play RE4).  Save for 1 very specific instance, the map shows the minimum amount of info needed to traverse the entire game.  It may just look like nifty blocks with colored doors, but they SAY A LOT.  You know what upgrades you have, and you know what doors are locked; if you see a door on the map that has no room drawn behind it, it's probably worth visiting -- simple as that.

[nemo_83]

I used the hint system once in Prime 2, and I felt guilty about it.  I put it down for too long; you have to keep up with two worlds, it just got confusing.

[vudu]

Quote
When asked to rate Samus's morality on a scale of 1-10, 1 being Boba Fett and 10 being Luke Skywalker (I'm not kidding, he used Star Wars characters), I answered "Han Solo", explaining that Samus puts up a front of greed (as a bounty hunter) but is actually motivated by pure intentions.

That might be the smartest thing I've ever heard in my entire life.

[Dirk Temporo]

No it's not. ;_; I already said why.

[Ian Sane]

One thing I notice about the hint system is that it never seems to help me when I need it.  If I don't know where to go I either get nothing or it points to some spot in the middle of nowhere where I haven't visited anything near it and thus have no idea how to get there.  Or if I do know where I'm going it keeps bugging me to go there.  "Yeah I know I'm supposed to go there.  It takes time to walk over there you know!"

[PaLaDiN]

I tried using the hint system on subsequent playthroughs... it seems the best way to use it is to turn it on until it shows you a room, then just turn it back off.

Wherever it's pointing, the closest room to there usually has a way to get there. And with it off, it doesn't bug you anymore.

[Shorty McNostril]

I must say that i wouldn't mind 1 melee move, just to give me something to beat up a damn shadow pirate that has me cornered.  I know i could jump (usually) but what would samus do if she were cornered, would she run away and jump or would she give him a bash on the head.  I don't want a whole martial art, just something to stun an enemy.

My thoughts.

[Hostile Creation]

Samus seems less greedy and more just cold-hearted and stoic.  She tears through these planets like a bad-ass and leaves them torn apart (and in many cases, completely 'sploded).  You question her morality at points.  But ultimately she seems to have a good core.
Like, she's been hardened by her lifestyle, having constantly having to kill things, but she still has the essence of good left in her.  The greed part may be a factor, but a lesser one.
I'd say Darth Vader, just less ridiculously evil.

[ruby_onix]

- On the Grapple Beam issue, I think everyone at Retro needs to go play Bionic Commando. Then they need to re-read the stuff Jonny just said about the Morph Ball.

- I think the problem with "backtracking" is when you start to see through the illusion of the game, and start to recognize things as straight lines. I think a good way around this is to have multiple legitamite pathways to any given area, from any given area (and don't wuss out and make several "bottleneck" points with only one way through them, which mark your progress through the game), in addition to making numerous paths across particular rooms. Plus you can try to make paths through rooms that offer direction-specific experiences (jumping down a ledge for one direction, climbing it going the other way, for instance), or you could go with enviroments that can shift/change over time (and don't just go with triggers to cue the harder enemies).

- I think Bill's comment about Samus and money comes from the total lack of Samus's character development as a bounty hunter. I don't think that's something that should come from dialog writers, but more from the gameplay. There have been a number of games that try and capture the spirit of bounty hunting (if only just as side quests), but I can't think of any good examples offhand. Metriod has traditionally done none of that, and has stuck to heroic adventure.

And on the subject of Samus's character development, I think there won't be any more character development without more sexualization of her. Samus is sexy. She's not ugly. Making her more human (and less of a player-controlled robot) will only make her more sexy. And there's nothing wrong with that.

- Regarding Ian's suggestion of being able to make marks on your map, I remember saying/thinking the exact same thing about the Metroidvania games. Having a touchscreen map on Dawn of Sorrow would've been so much better than a dumb "sealing" system.