Topic: Revolutions Fat Library

[JonLeung]

I don't know how many PSX and PS2 games there are officially, but even if they did manage to have more games than Nintendo's four generations (which I doubt), Nintendo's would be spanning more history.  The "oldskool" gamers would have multiple times more 2D games to choose from.

And until that supposed "Internet2" launches or whatever it is that's ten thousand times faster than most people's current Internet experiences currently are, I don't see Sony offering downloads of PSX games.  A full one would be over 600 MB, and then some games are multi-CD.  You can't download that as fast as an 8 MB-32 MB N64 game.

Henceforth, Nintendo's back catalogue > Sony's.

[heinous_anus]

"It does relieve them SOME stress of gaming release dates."

Spak-spang, I'll completely agree with most of what you said if you nix that statement.  I also hope that people will buy the Revolution simply for this concept.  The virtual console, however, should be treated as a ridiculously nice feature, no more, no less.  It should have no bearing whatsoever on the kind of new material Nintendo brings to the Revolution, or when/how often said material comes out.

[couchmonkey]

Edit: this post was a total trainwreck.  Basically I had two points:

1. I agree with Ian, in that I think the only way to make Revolution's library look better than Sony's is to have more brand-new games.  The backwards compatibility is nice, and may be a huge selling point in it's own right, but it won't be seen as part of the library by Joe consumer scanning the shelves in Wal-Mart or Toys 'R Us.

2. I agree with others in that I think the virtual console concept could be a huge selling point and it does offer the 8-bit and 16-bit games that Sony doesn't.  I think it has the potential to reach an audience that used to love videogames but lost interest as they became more complicated.  The games are also going to be a lot easier to get your hands on than say, most PSX games.  You don't need to phone every shop in town or go on Ebay to find that game that's been out of print for 7 years.

[Ian Sane]

"The backwards compatibility is nice, and may be a huge selling point in it's own right, but it won't be seen as part of the library by Joe consumer scanning the shelves in Wal-Mart or Toys 'R Us."

That's a good point about the shelves.  The download service is something that will probably require a bit of research.  If you're just some guy browsing the store even if you know of the feature you're not going to know exactly what is available without research.  You're just going to see the Rev section and the puny Cube section.  Meanwhile you'll see the huge PS3 section and huge PS2 section.  Sure the Rev will have in total more games available but you have to go the extra mile to know that.  Shelf space tells a lot.  Even when the N64 technically was the market leader I thought the Playstation was winning because it had twice the shelf space.

[Spak-Spang]

The Shelve space is a concern.  Nintendo needs to market the download service to where everyone knows about it.  It is a major selling point that the other systems can't reproduce...and shelve space needs to be apart of that marketing.

I could see Nintendo designing download cards that you can pickup at the stores, perhaps able to be placed on the end shelf or something.
I could see download cards with pictures of famous Nintendo characters, Game Systems, and Classic Box Art.  Stuff that shows the history of Nintendo on a simple card.

As well, I think Nintendo needs to design special sheving space for the Nintendo Revolution that contains banners advertising the Controller, and Download service.  A nice slogan could be:

"The History of Nintendo, in one simple Box."
or
"Your gaming History, Your Nintendo."
or
"Your gaming memories, Your Nintendo."


heinous_anus:

I don't mean to say Nintendo can slack off and not produce and release games on a timely basis, or that they can ignore third party development.  But I am saying that with the download service if you have slight delays in games coming out, it will not be as bad as it was during the Nintendo 64 or Gamecube eras because you can always download a classic game you never played and get your gaming fix.  Does it allow Nintendo to slack off and leave us with huge gaming draughts NO.  But, it does mean that the waits between games will be alittle easier to handle, because the Revolution will have more content available for it than we could ever have time to play.  It just relieves SOME, but not all the stress of small gaming draughts.


 

[Ian Sane]

"The Shelve space is a concern. Nintendo needs to market the download service to where everyone knows about it. It is a major selling point that the other systems can't reproduce...and shelve space needs to be apart of that marketing."

What about POP material in the store that shows some of the more popular games for download?  A lot of old print ads in the 80s and early 90s would show a whole bunch of games with one screenshot per game and the title of the game underneath.  You could probably fit like 50 onto a cardboard box about the size of a game case.  It shows how the Rev download service has tons of games and has a bit of a nostalgia feel.

Here's an example of the old ads I'm talking about.  It's for the Genesis but you get the idea.

[eljefe]

dude that is a great idea, I used to love those 50-screen-ads


Can you imagine we used to buy games just from seeing one screenshot?

man..

[JonLeung]

At first I wasn't too sure about the cards but now I'm all for it.  Or something like it.  Having something physical that you can throw around makes it easier to sell the service.  It can be cheaply given away at promotional events.  And having ads about it would probably be worth it.  It definitely is a selling point.  I know that Joe Schmoes do like old games.  So long as they know that the Revolution is more than just a retro-machine.

I've heard that when people when people can't come up with a decent reason to bash something they start picking on whatever they can, so if the service is really successful, people are going to say it's an excuse for a lack of new games, whether or not there truly is, until or unless the Revolution library ever surpasses the PS3's, which would be difficult to achieve.

Anti-Nintendo fanboys are pretty much alike.  I remember saying early on this generation that the GameCube was easier to develop for, to which an anti-Nintendo guy screamed "That just means there'll be more crap on the system."  I probably should've responded with that the PSX was easier to develop for than the N64 so how is that any different?  Many Sony followers are going to count the backwards compatibility of the PS3 as adding to its library but not the Nintendo download service as counting in the Revolution library.

[KDR_11k]

Prepaid cards aren't just useful for store presence, they help all those people who don't have a credit card. Hell, I've seen NC Soft prepaid cards pop up after WoW started it.

[Ian Sane]

"Prepaid cards aren't just useful for store presence, they help all those people who don't have a credit card."

They work well as gifts too.

[Spak-Spang]

I love your idea Ian.

I can see a corner display, that has several screenshots of games available for the Download service and then have the download cards below to pick up.

The cards are a great idea for several reasons.

1)You can give them as gifts easier.
2)If you use the Revolution with your kids then its safer then then them popping the Credit Card in and downloading whatever they want.
3)Helps establish that online is truly free.  "Hey I don't have to put my credit card into the system to play online."
4)Store presence, and will help with impulse buyers in the store.  
5)Can be packed in with games.
6)Could be handed out at events.
7)Easy contests.  Just place a card into a purchase.  It may be worth 1 download.  maybe 25.  How cool would that be as a bonus to buying your game.
8)Is much more friendly to nongamers and nonPC players.

Anyway, I love the idea of a large display with multiple game shots from all generation of Nintendo games.  I also want the cards to look cool, and have a hip design to them.  

Finally, I think it would be nice to download games and buy them online, but not use your Revolution for it.  Instead when you register your Revolution, you create an account with Nintendo online, and any computer can be used to buy games.  When you get home you boot up the Revolution and it begins to download.  Or perhaps you can keep it on with a sleep mode, and it will communicate the transaction and download before you get home.

[JonLeung]

I used to work as a supervisor at Playdium Edmonton.  (For those of you unfamiliar with the Playdiums, they were large "entertainment centres" (don't call them big arcades!) that besides a slew of arcade games, had party rooms, a sports bar, etc.  I think there were four in Canada at the most, before two closed down (including mine) and one got bought by Sega or something.)

Anyway, I was just going to say that I was reminded of PlayCards (at Playdium, we used cards that were "charged" with a certain number of Credits or TimePlay).  (You can see the cards and the card-reading device in the Lindsay Lohan movie "Confessions Of A Teenage Drama Queen".)  They had neat designs, and some were promotional.  Before I came on board they had GameCube ones to promote it at launch.

Back on topic, Nintendo's cards could have box art...at least the recognizeable ones, like the early NES ones.  Or screenshots.  Or collages of stuff.  I imagine that they could look pretty cool, emblazoned with all sorts of Nintendo stuff, that I'd get a bunch simply for the sole purpose of collecting them.  I'm sure if Nintendo decided to go with cards, they'd make a killing on crazy collectors alone.

[31 Flavas]

Quote
Originally posted by: Spak-Spang

What everybody supporting this feature are saying that this feature will BRING in gamers.  As stated there are several reasons why this rocks.

Leave it to Ian to crap on Nintendo for a great feature.... I guess it really doesn't surprise me at all though. He craps on anything Nintendo.

[IceCold]

Quote
I used to work as a supervisor at Playdium Edmonton. (For those of you unfamiliar with the Playdiums, they were large "entertainment centres" (don't call them big arcades!) that besides a slew of arcade games, had party rooms, a sports bar, etc. I think there were four in Canada at the most, before two closed down (including mine) and one got bought by Sega or something.)

Anyway, I was just going to say that I was reminded of PlayCards (at Playdium, we used cards that were "charged" with a certain number of Credits or TimePlay). (You can see the cards and the card-reading device in the Lindsay Lohan movie "Confessions Of A Teenage Drama Queen".) They had neat designs, and some were promotional. Before I came on board they had GameCube ones to promote it at launch.

Wow, I was actually thinking of those PlayCards when I found out about the download service! I've always thought they were a good idea - they're an obvious solution for those who don't have credit cards, don't want to use them online, or want something physical to show for it. The PlayCards were rechargeable, right? Maybe Nintendo could also do this with the Rev ones. And you're absolutely right, the amount of different ways Nintendo could decorate a card is astounding.

I love Playdium - whenever I went to Edmonton I would go there. They are a few others around - I know that there's one in Vancouver and one in Missisauga, but I rarely go to those places so I haven't been to one in a while. Yours closed down after the hailstorms, right?

[ThePerm]

the question is though....will we get sony imagesoft games?

[JonLeung]

Heh.  Playdium Edmonton.  Good times.  When I was a supervisor I had a lot of shifts, so we may have crossed paths before.  But I left to pursue other things shortly before they closed down.  If I had known I probably would've stayed...it was fun.  I was a whole different person there.  There's not a whole lot of jobs where I'm comfortable around everyone and can grab all the girls' butts without getting in serious trouble...  >_>

But yeah, like I mentioned in another topic....for whatever reason I liked SmartBall, a Sony ImageSoft-developed Super NES game...most of their other games were crap though so no one would miss them if Nintendo never approaches Sony for those games.

[kirby_killer_dedede]

How much should these games cost?  The last thing they should be worried about is profit.  I say 10 bucks top for a high-end N64 game.  

[Spak-Spang]

Kirby:

Wow your allowing for higher cost games than most people.

I have always estimated that $1.99-5.00 was a good price per game.

However, it would be better and less confusing for cards to label them per download.

So something like

$5.00 for 3 downloads
$15.00 for 10 downloads
$25.00 for 20 downloads  

Something to where it's a definate price and definate number of downloads...and it makes it easier to know what you are buying.

[nickmitch]

I don't about that. Some games are just worth more.
N64 titles should be of the highest cost with SNES and NES going down.
And the price ranges should be setup like that, and within the ranges some games should cost a dollar or two more than others.

[Spak-Spang]

Value is completely based on Perception.

To some Super Mario Kart (SNES) is worth twice as much as Super Mario Kart 64.  

I understand what you are saying about more recent technology and potentially larger games, however, that gets complicated fast.  I guess you could just have cards for certain system downloads, but if you are going to do cards, it would be best to keep it as simple as possible.

A single price for a certain number of any download makes it simple, and understandable.  

[IceCold]

I think they should have a credit system, so you buy a card with so many credits (or pay online for credits) and each game is given a credit value. Value is definitely based on perception, but I don't know about the Super Mario Kart vs MK64 example - Mario Kart 64 would still be worth more since it did extremely well and it was on the 64, so it cost much more to develop. However, an example like, say, Super Metroid vs Hey, you Pikachu (I know, I know, mic...) - they would be closer in credit value.

They should also assign a credit value for each system based on how it sold or how high-profile it was - so small titles would cost less and bigger ones require be more credits to purchase.

[Spak-Spang]

IceCold:

I used that Mario Kart example, because several people have stated they perfer the original to the N64 version.  The original is also the only game with the Feather, so if you want to try that mechanic out then you have to buy the original.  

Several things that were very cool about the first Super Mario Kart have not been recreated since then and it really makes the game stand out.

Still my favorite all time thing to do in Mario Kart was the bananna/green turtle shell trick on the last level of first cup in Super Mario Kart.  You could literally make the CPU or Human Player repeat half a lap.  It was great, and you could do it for several laps, and pretty much lap all but second place racers.  Since then, that trick hasn't been nearly as rewarding or drastic a technique.

[IceCold]

Don't worry, I understand - in fact I prefer Super Mario Kart too. But that doesn't mean that it should come at the same price as Mario Kart 64... MK64 was a big, big game which Nintendo spent a lot on and which sold well. It had higher production values... So my point is that in my credit system, the disparity between MK64 and SMK would be greater than the disparity between, as I said, Super Metroid and Pikachu, which would be minimal.

So basically the best/most expensive to produce/highest selling/high-profile games on a previous console would be similar in credit value compared to the worst/cheapest to produce/low-selling/low-profile/niche games on the later system. The later console games are more expensive because of the technological leap. So, by that way of thinking, Mario Kart 64 would be more expensive to buy than Super Mario Kart.

[KDR_11k]

I don't see a reason for that except for the "people are willing to pay more so let's charge more" corporate mentality. Those games are ancient, their development has been paid for looooong ago and in some cases the original developers aren't even around anymore. Since bandwidth expenditures for cartridge games won't be gigantic they could charge a dollar or two while making a profit.

[Ian Sane]

I imagine just like with on-the-shelf games prices will lower depending on popularity.  Super Metroid for example could probably cost $20 and it would still sell like mad.  Something like Final Fantasy III could probably sell in North America for $50.  However DK Jr. Math would probably drop to like a buck pretty fast or no one would buy it.  I think Nintendo should have a set price for all of their own games.  One price for NES, one for SNES and one for N64.  It should be a reasonable price to encourage impulse buys.  I'd say no more than $2 for NES, $5 for SNES and $10 for N64 though that's the max and I think 99 cent NES games would really encourage the use of the feature.  Occasionally some games should go on sale to correspond with another release (ie: Zelda Rev comes out so there's a sale on all Zelda games). Third parties should be allowed to charge whatever they want for any game and if they overcharge or undercharge it's their own fault.