Author Topic: Rumblings of Revolution controller redesign  (Read 23157 times)

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Offline IceCold

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RE:Rumblings of Revolution controller redesign
« Reply #50 on: November 01, 2005, 07:18:15 PM »
Well...the shell might be sold separately which means that not everyone would have it so developers wouldn't develop their games specifically for it. Unless Nintendo packs it in with the console, which I think would be the smart thing to do.
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Offline Don'tHate742

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RE:Rumblings of Revolution controller redesign
« Reply #51 on: November 02, 2005, 04:59:33 AM »
Quote

Originally posted by: nemo_83
In Goldeneye for example it would require you to control foot movement and camera with the dpads on each remote.  You would be sacrificing camera and analog character movement for the ability to aim two weapons independently.  I would like to see a game like this, but it is entirely possible to control the dual wielding with only one remote, attach the camera control to the gun's aim, and use the nunchuck for character movement.  Or the shell could be used for camera and character control while still using the remote inside for aiming the guns on screen.  

Lots of options, but I am focusing on the event that one game does come out using the dual remote setup.  It doesn't have to be a shooter, it could be Zelda requiring you to use one remote for shield and the other for sword swings.



Umm, then there would be Z-targeting or something like that. Also, if your talking about a FPS, then simply "attach" the camera to the gun and your done. Much like shooters today, your gun aiming-circle thing is in the middle of your camera. Why not do the same thing? You still have another gun that's independant.

The only hard thing would be moving.

For Zelda or rather a Gladiator type-game, Z-targeting would pretty much handle everything. Again, the only problem lies in being able to move. Nintendo provided a d-pad instead of an analog stick or something akin to it, so moving would be a pain in the ass.

Honestly, the only way I could see duel-wielding work is if the nunchuck attachment had a gyroscope or whatever as well. You need essentially 3 analogue sticks.  Nintendo provides two in all forms of the controller (even using two NRCs).
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Offline zakkiel

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RE: Rumblings of Revolution controller redesign
« Reply #52 on: November 02, 2005, 10:52:19 AM »
I think dual wield would have to be strictly for rail shooters.
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Offline couchmonkey

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RE: Rumblings of Revolution controller redesign
« Reply #53 on: November 03, 2005, 06:14:37 AM »
I'd like to defend the fewer button stance, and Nintendo's strategy in general.

I remember when I started playing the Super NES and later the N64, each time I was overwhelmed by the array of new buttons Nintendo threw at me.  In the end there was always a reason for adding new buttons, but I remember specifically wondering how Nintendo could simplify N64 games, because there was so much to learn there.

I believe that Nintendo is absolutely right in simplifying controllers again.  Nobody is intimidated by the old NES controllers.  I've said it before and I'll say it again, some non-gamers I know prefer playing my old NES to anything else because there are only two buttons.  The motion-sensing aspect of the controller makes up for some of the lost functionality in an intuitive way.

Now the argument against this direction is usually, "I don't care about non-gamers, I don't want my games dumbed down for them!"  That's too bad because I think anything that opens gaming up to a wider audience is cool.  Hardcore gamers are becoming gatekeepers of our hobby...we don't want to let anyone else in unless they play by our rules!  The exact same thing happened with computers way back in the day.  Who needs an operating system?  If you can't program a computer punchcard by punchcard, go do something else!  Personally, I'd like to be able to play videogames with people who don't play them usually without them moaning about how it's too hard.  I'd like to see my parents play videogames again.

None of this comes at the cost of hardcore games, either.  The nunchuck configuration and the traditional controller configuration allow for all those types of games.  I think there's a fear that Nintendo will stop making "real" games.  Please look at the DS.  Look at Advanced Wars, Mario Kart, Mario & Luigi, Kirby, and Metroid Prime Hunters.  Nintendo is not going to stop making hardcore games, it's just devoting some time to new types of games (which you might enjoy if you gave them a chance).  

Personally, I'm really looking forward to this because it has gotten to the point where sometimes a new game is even too complicated for me! Splinter Cell has collected dust on my shelf for two years because I don't like it enough to learn the complex controls.  Every time I pick it up, I'm back at square one.  All these games where everything on the controller does something and sometimes you even have to use them two at a time to add even more functions are too much.  Unless the game is really interesting, I lose interest and forget how to play.

Anyway, I'm sure I didn't change anyone's (Ian's) point of view, but I think there's good reasoning behind Nintendo's strategy.  There's good reasoning behind not wanting games to be dumbed down, too, but Nintendo appears to be offering enough control options for that to be a non-issue.  That's the beauty of the configurable control, and although I'm still skeptical that non-gamers will find a configurable control easy to use, Nintendo's system of building all other controls around the remote seems like a good start.
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Offline wandering

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RE: Rumblings of Revolution controller redesign
« Reply #54 on: November 06, 2005, 07:15:54 PM »
Yes, yes, yes. Thank you, couch monkey.

The Revolution makes me tingly with excitment not because of the new game experiences it promises to provide, though that excites me too, but because I think it's poised to become the next ipod - taking gaming into the mainstream. I've never really understood this desire some gamers have to have game systems only cater to them, to have gaming remain the secret domain of geeks like us. But, then I've always been the kind of guy who enjoys getting other people to enjoy what I enjoy....I constantly try to get non-gamers into gaming (and gamers into Shakespeare.)  
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Offline Kairon

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RE:Rumblings of Revolution controller redesign
« Reply #55 on: November 06, 2005, 07:31:09 PM »
Wanering, you're sitting on a killer app!

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Offline ThePerm

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RE:Rumblings of Revolution controller redesign
« Reply #56 on: November 07, 2005, 07:23:54 AM »
I think Nintendo should release a wavebird 2.0 for revolution....it would be compatible with gamecube and rev and it would also have a tilt feature. I really dont see myself buying some weird shell when i could just use my current style controller for those games that dont take advantage of the new functionality. It be nice to play some fighting games on a standard controlelr with tilt. Or a third party could release a controller..thats wireless, has some tilt..and Nintendo should recomend it for fighting games. While at the same time it pushes boundaries with its super rev controller mega wakak waka garage band doodle jump on my feet run aqround and yell billy share with all of the other children take out the paper and the trash feed your cat change the channel and make sure when you leave a room turn off the lights.
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Offline Stimutacs Addict

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RE: Rumblings of Revolution controller redesign
« Reply #57 on: November 07, 2005, 07:42:46 AM »
i want a flight sim to come out sooo badly.. i've been playing with my cellphone pretending that I'm controlling the airplane and imagining that throttle is controlled by the left analogue stick... that would give me a reason to buy a Revolution for my dad.
I'll shut up now...

Offline jakeOSX

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RE: Rumblings of Revolution controller redesign
« Reply #58 on: November 07, 2005, 08:08:28 AM »
On FPS movement:

with the nunchuck thing you would use the stick and two buttons in one hand for movement, and the rev controller for 'look around', a set up which would be very close to a keyboard mouse type set-up.

if you just used the controller, you could use left and right for the direction, and roll (twisting the controller) for strafing. it would take more time to get used to the movement, but it should be posible.

Offline iMoron

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RE:Rumblings of Revolution controller redesign
« Reply #59 on: November 07, 2005, 12:06:14 PM »
Hey jakeOSX I think that it is posible to use just one Revolution controler without the nunchuk atachment in a FPS easily, though a bit limited in some respect... BUT not limited in respect to movement!

I mean, the controler can sence movement!!!

If you wanted to move foward, move the controler foward, tours the TV, it should only de an small movement... a centemeter at most.

Backwards... move the controler away, tours you...

Straf... move the controler left or rigth WITHOUT tilting it...

Look... tilt the controler... pointing your way...

... Thats what I think is posible with the controler... but I coild be wrong...
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Offline IceCold

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RE:Rumblings of Revolution controller redesign
« Reply #60 on: November 07, 2005, 12:33:30 PM »
Or you could just use the D-Pad for moving and the motion sensors for aiming if the attachment wasn't used.
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Offline Jensen

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RE:Rumblings of Revolution controller redesign
« Reply #61 on: November 12, 2005, 04:13:07 PM »
I like the Gamecube controller's method of simplifying.  It makes one button more prominent than the others.  But it still has other buttons.  I think the Revolution controller could be made even more simple, but still have better functionality...   My controller idea

Ditch the whole sideways NES controller thing.
Leave out the select button (when has a game really needed a select button?)
Take out the d-pad.
Add three kidney buttons.
Color the A button.

I wouldn't mind this, but it adds visual clutter.    

Offline Bill Aurion

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RE: Rumblings of Revolution controller redesign
« Reply #62 on: November 12, 2005, 05:07:20 PM »
Ditch the whole sideways NES controller thing.

Um, why?  I'd like to play my NES games like that, and it adds to the slick design...

Leave out the select button (when has a game really needed a select button?)

When was the last time you played the NES?  A LOT of games used the select button, and it just gives added functionality...

Take out the d-pad.

Why?

Add three kidney buttons.

So, uh, you want to get rid of good buttons that actually make sense and want to put in buttons that'd look like crap on the Revmote?  Uh huuuuuh...

Color the A button.

It'd stick out too much...It's very slick how it is...
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Offline Jensen

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RE:Rumblings of Revolution controller redesign
« Reply #63 on: November 12, 2005, 07:15:02 PM »
The Revolution controller has two separate button sets.  Half the buttons are inconvenient or unneeded in vertical mode (d-pad and a,b) and the A and B buttons are useless during horizontal use.  Why not just make two controllers, one a bit more optimized for Revolution games, and a separate SNES pad (that can also play NES games, of course).
 

Offline Bill Aurion

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RE: Rumblings of Revolution controller redesign
« Reply #64 on: November 12, 2005, 07:33:22 PM »
Because your button setup defeats the purpose of the simplistic design...
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Offline Artimus

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RE: Rumblings of Revolution controller redesign
« Reply #65 on: November 12, 2005, 08:36:06 PM »
None of those buttons are inconvenient. Haven't you ever pressed buttons on your tv remote? It's easy to slide up and down.

Offline Kairon

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RE:Rumblings of Revolution controller redesign
« Reply #66 on: November 12, 2005, 08:47:11 PM »
Quote

Originally posted by: Artimus
None of those buttons are inconvenient. Haven't you ever pressed buttons on your tv remote? It's easy to slide up and down.


Have you ever tried to play games on your tv remote?

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Offline IceCold

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RE:Rumblings of Revolution controller redesign
« Reply #67 on: November 12, 2005, 09:15:51 PM »
I thought of the idea a while ago to put the D-Pad at the bottom, and then at the top have a SNES-like button layout where the A button currently is. I felt that the a-b buttons were useless because they essentially could not be used as primary buttons. Therefore, why not remove them? This way, there is only one more face button which could be used for Rev games, AND you could play both NES and SNES games if you tilt it sideways. There could be embedded shoulder buttons on the left side of the NRC so that SNES games could be played fully.

However, someone here pointed out that the setup wouldn't work for one-handed gaming, which is a valid point. And it isn't needed if the shell is included with the console.
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Offline MrMojoRising

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RE:Rumblings of Revolution controller redesign
« Reply #68 on: November 12, 2005, 09:41:25 PM »
I like your second picture Jensen...mostly just because it has the full SNES button layout on the bottom.

I think the D-pad is still rather useful on the Rev controller the way it is now.  I obviously haven't actually played with it, but it seems close enough to use fairly well.

Offline Jensen

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RE:Rumblings of Revolution controller redesign
« Reply #69 on: November 12, 2005, 09:51:09 PM »
I don't think the d-pad postion is bad, It just seems to be redundant...  how many games will need both the d-pad and all the axes of motion the gyro supports?

Offline wandering

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RE: Rumblings of Revolution controller redesign
« Reply #70 on: November 12, 2005, 11:24:38 PM »
The d-pad could be used for all kinds of things. Weapon selection in an fps, camera control in a platformer, jumping in Super Smash Bros.....
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Offline Smadte

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RE:Rumblings of Revolution controller redesign
« Reply #71 on: November 13, 2005, 05:24:31 PM »
I like Jensen's simplified controller idea. The d-pad looks out of reach and there will be games that need more than 2 buttons. Making space on a 2006 controller for games made way back in '85 is kind of rediculous if you ask me.

Offline MODE_RED

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RE: Rumblings of Revolution controller redesign
« Reply #72 on: November 13, 2005, 06:09:19 PM »
I like the "squeeze grip" idea that was going around before the controller unveiling.

All Nintendo has to do is make the sides of the remote *squeezable* (with lots of analog sensitivity) and you have a better way to activate the gyration features of the revmote than just *always-on* or *press and hold B/Z trigger*.

This way, the B and Z Triggers can be used for actions, and the gyros can be off when the revmote is not squeezed or they can control something else until you squeeze (For instance, shift between camera control and lock-on sword control by squeezing/releasing). The could call the squeezable grip "G" or G-Trigger (short for Grip Trigger.)

The squeezability would be perfect for a VOODOO DOLL game, or a game that lets you grab things in the environment.

What would be the cons to this? I can't really see any as I believe this actually fits well within Nintendo's strategy of simpler control that takes games to a newer, better level.
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Offline Kairon

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RE:Rumblings of Revolution controller redesign
« Reply #73 on: November 13, 2005, 06:11:33 PM »
Quote

Originally posted by: Smadte
I like Jensen's simplified controller idea. The d-pad looks out of reach and there will be games that need more than 2 buttons. Making space on a 2006 controller for games made way back in '85 is kind of rediculous if you ask me.


Considering how tiny the control is, how it looks small even in the hands of the Japanese... I don't think that the D-Pad will be out of reach at all.

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Offline Kairon

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RE:Rumblings of Revolution controller redesign
« Reply #74 on: November 13, 2005, 06:15:47 PM »
Quote

Originally posted by: MODE_RED
I like the "squeeze grip" idea that was going around before the controller unveiling.

All Nintendo has to do is make the sides of the remote *squeezable* (with lots of analog sensitivity) and you have a better way to activate the gyration features of the revmote than just *always-on* or *press and hold B/Z trigger*.

This way, the B and Z Triggers can be used for actions, and the gyros can be off when the revmote is not squeezed or they can control something else until you squeeze (For instance, shift between camera control and lock-on sword control by squeezing/releasing). The could call the squeezable grip "G" or G-Trigger (short for Grip Trigger.)

The squeezability would be perfect for a VOODOO DOLL game, or a game that lets you grab things in the environment.

What would be the cons to this? I can't really see any as I believe this actually fits well within Nintendo's strategy of simpler control that takes games to a newer, better level.


If I may, I'd like to take a stand against this idea. We have immensely less control over the pressure we use when we squeeze our hand than over the other options of input the controller gives us. That means that analog sensitivity would just be uncontrollable!

And what about tense players who ALWAYS squeeze their controllers tightly?

Not to mention the very fact of squeezing something tenses all your hand muscles, and even tenses muscles into the forearm. Needing to constantly squeeze and unsqueeze a controller would quickly give you cramps.

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A glooming peace this morning with it brings;
The sun, for sorrow, will not show his head:
Go hence, to have more talk of these sad things;
Some shall be pardon'd, and some punished:
For never was a story of more woe
Than this of Sega and her Mashiro.