Topic: Rumblings of Revolution controller redesign

[Bill Aurion]

You want to play a game with THAT?  Ahahahano...Why be restricted by former models?  The point of the Revolution is that it provides the same, no, even more functionality than a standard controller while at the same time being very simplistic and easy on the eyes...It's stupid to destroy that image with an ugly mess of a "controller" with a bajillion buttons just so you can play the old games with it...

[Kairon]

We already had a controller that had the complexity of a TV remote Ian, it was the remote for the Atari Jaguar.

Atari Jaguar Remote with 20 buttons and a D-Pad

Bottomline is, you don't play videogames with your TV remote's button set-up.

AND, if you actually look carefully, you ALREADY have a 5 button set-up on the face of the REV controller: the D-Pad and the A-Button! Actually, the D-Pad is infinitely superiror to the circular arrangement of buttons on your TV remote.

~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com

[vudu]

Ian, just because the controller has the right number of buttons it doesn't mean that the setup is ideal for playing SNES or N64 games.  How the heck are you going to play if the buttons are setup like they are in that picture?

[Michael8983]

I think Nintendo will likely release a classic controller for the NES/SNES games.
Maybe Nintendo will even ship you one free as a bonus for signing up for the downloading service.

[Ian Sane]

"You want to play a game with THAT?"

I don't want to play games with a remote PERIOD but that seems to be what we're stuck with.  Are you guys thinking I want all those buttons on the remote?  I'm just suggesting buttons four buttons around the A button.  That's virtually the same thing as the current Cube setup.  Funny how when Nintendo does it it's a brilliant idea but when I suggest it you guys complain.

"AND, if you actually look carefully, you ALREADY have a 5 button set-up on the face of the REV controller: the D-Pad and the A-Button!"

D-pad and buttons aren't the same.  You can't push two D-pad directions at the same time!  How many times does this have to be brought up?  And I wasn't suggesting they ditch the D-pad.  My idea is the exact same controller as before only with four extra buttons around the A button similar to the Cube controller.  Don't think of them as the same shape either.  Bean buttons would probably work best.

"Ian, just because the controller has the right number of buttons it doesn't mean that the setup is ideal for playing SNES or N64 games. How the heck are you going to play if the buttons are setup like they are in that picture?"

You can turn the controller sideways for the SNES.  Remember there are two buttons at the bottom so with this setup you would have six buttons there.  Personally I would rather not use this for SNES and N64 games but at least there's enough buttons.  With the existing design it's impossible to play N64 games without the shell.  I would use the shell but this still provides more flexibility.

[wandering]

The best rev controller design ever.

Quote
Originally posted by: Ian Sane
If you don't like the idea please give me a real reason why it's no good instead of that stupid "OMG! Non-gamers are scared of too many buttons!" bullsh!t that Nintendo has planted into some of your heads. These TV remotes have WAY more buttons than the Rev controller will ever have and somehow they don't scare people away from watching TV.

Real reasons why that's no good:

1) Moving your thumb around to press different buttons while also moving your arm/wrist and holding the controller in one hand would be uncomfortable.

2) Putting more buttons on there would make the controller harder to use for non-gamers. The buttons on regular remote controls are static: the volume buttons always change the volume, the play/pause button always plays/pauses, etc. Also, you don't have to press buttons on a regular remote control with any speed.

3) The REV controller has plenty of buttons already. It has: four action buttons which can be pressed simultaneously with ease; a d-pad which can function as one action button or four selection buttons; and a select button which can function as an action button. That's six action buttons (same as gamecube) + gyro control and some other other things.  

[UncleBob]

Or you can use your Hori Digital Controller... everyone has one, right?

[Ian Sane]

"Moving your thumb around to press different buttons while also moving your arm/wrist and holding the controller in one hand would be uncomfortable."

That's a good reason.  I didn't think of that.  I think it would work well for games that don't use motion control though, like games that use the analog stick attachment.  I'm of the idea that having more buttons provides more options and it should be up to the developers to design their controls so that things are comfortable.  Duke Nukem 64 for example uses the d-pad, analog stick, and the face buttons.  It is the stupidest control setup I've ever seen.  But that doesn't damn the whole N64 controller because GOOD developers who knew what they were doing didn't have controls like that.

[ThePerm]

shyguy i  am lefty

[Kairon]

Quote

I don't want to play games with a remote PERIOD but that seems to be what we're stuck with. Are you guys thinking I want all those buttons on the remote? I'm just suggesting buttons four buttons around the A button. That's virtually the same thing as the current Cube setup. Funny how when Nintendo does it it's a brilliant idea but when I suggest it you guys complain.

We're complaining because Nintendo did this multi-button setup back with the SNES in 1991. Now, almost 15 years after that, they're saying that they want to do something different that will drastically change the nature of how we play our games. Part of what Nintendo's gunning for is simplicity, which is something that going overly zealous with adding more buttons where the A resides now would destroy.

When Nintendo did it, it was brilliant because it was adding something that wasn't there before to controller interfaces. When you're doing it now, it's basically sabotaging this new attempt at adding something new to controller interfaces.

Nintendo already HAS the shell. THAT is their allowance for conventional style games. To destroy the concept of the Rev controller seems unnecessary and wasteful now that the Shell exists solely for the purposes of allowing conventional titles on the system.

Quote
That's a good reason. I didn't think of that. I think it would work well for games that don't use motion control though, like games that use the analog stick attachment.

So now you're basically proposing we change the Rev button set-up to appeal specifically to games that DON'T use motion control?

Obviously, the existence of the shell should suit all conventional gameplay. But this point here: that now increasing the face buttons for the Rev controller would suit only a narrow band of games that specifically didn't use the most important aspect of the rev controller (it's gyroscope) shows why we're so reticent about this idea: it destroys the need for the Rev controller funcitonality just to do what the shell add-on would already do.

Quote
But that doesn't damn the whole N64 controller because GOOD developers who knew what they were doing didn't have controls like that.

Then I suggest that you wait until we see what GOOD developers do with ther rev controller before we damn the whole thing as well.

~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com

[ShyGuy]

I think Ian's TV remote is another example of Toshiba screwing over their hardcore fanbase and scaring away third parties. Wait, what?

[zakkiel]

Quote
If you don't like the idea please give me a real reason why it's no good instead of that stupid "OMG! Non-gamers are scared of too many buttons!" bullsh!t that Nintendo has planted into some of your heads.

I've now found several people who stopped gaming, and asked them why. The answer?

Too many buttons.

The fact that you don't like it doesn't make it less true, Ian.  

[stevey]

Two is all the button you need

[Rhoq]

Quote
Originally posted by: stevey
Two is all the button you need

Not including "select", "home" and "start" - I see 4 buttons in that mock-up.

[Bill Aurion]

Way too many people are forgetting that there's a B button on the back of the Revmote...

[MrMojoRising]

I think it's okay how it is, but I won't complain if they add a couple of buttons.

I still think they should at least put four on the bottom and a couple of shoulder buttons on the right side so you can use it for SNES games too when it's sideways.

[ThePerm]

really  i think its  just fine the  way it is....if  you  think  outside the  box  thenthat  d pad  is  4 face buttons and  the a  is just another button. Plus.......theres  a select button!!

every nintendo console  with a  select button  has been  number 1!!!

[wandering]

....Except the Virtual Boy.

[KnowsNothing]

Virtual Boy was the number one virtual reality headset made by Nintendo of all time.

[ThePerm]

yeah, i mean  it  didnt compete with  anything  else. so,  it was  successful

[nemo_83]

Is anyone worried about camera control and character control in any shooter that uses two remotes for dual wielding?

[ThePerm]

a fps or any game with guns?

[PaLaDiN]

"Is anyone worried about camera control and character control in any shooter that uses two remotes for dual wielding?"

Not really... so many potential combinations in there it's crazy. You could use dpads and buttons directly, but you could also press B or up on the left dpad to control the camera with the remote, for example.

[nemo_83]

In Goldeneye for example it would require you to control foot movement and camera with the dpads on each remote.  You would be sacrificing camera and analog character movement for the ability to aim two weapons independently.  I would like to see a game like this, but it is entirely possible to control the dual wielding with only one remote, attach the camera control to the gun's aim, and use the nunchuck for character movement.  Or the shell could be used for camera and character control while still using the remote inside for aiming the guns on screen.  

Lots of options, but I am focusing on the event that one game does come out using the dual remote setup.  It doesn't have to be a shooter, it could be Zelda requiring you to use one remote for shield and the other for sword swings.  

[wandering]

 

Quote
Originally posted by: ThePerm
yeah, i mean it didnt compete with anything else. so, it was successful

Of course you realise that, according to Nintendo, the Revolution won't be competing with anything else either. So, you're right, the REV will be #1....the #1 non-germ focused console that is controlled with a motion-sensing controller that is shaped like a television remote.  

edit: non-germ focused? ha.

Quote
Originally posted by: Ian Sane
That's a good reason. I didn't think of that. I think it would work well for games that don't use motion control though, like games that use the analog stick attachment. I'm of the idea that having more buttons provides more options and it should be up to the developers to design their controls so that things are comfortable.

I see what you're saying....but I guess my repsonse to that would be, sometimes having less options is better. A house with nothing but a huge, empty space with no defined rooms may provide more options for the potential buyer, but it won't sell as well as a house with a more normal floor plan. If the buttons are there, you can bet that developers are going to use them and use them poorly.

I just don't see the need for more buttons. Games that don't use motion control or need more buttons will use the shell. Otherwise, well, as I've said before, there are plenty of buttons on the rev controller already (4 if you include the nunchaku, 6 if you count the d-pad and select as buttons).