Topic: Mario 128 early 06 with a fixed camera - EGM

[KDR_11k]

I use "insane" to describe anything that is so far off the scale that normal people couldn't have thought of it (or at least they would have rejected the idea).

[Hostile Creation]

I assure you Rancid, nemo, Don'tHate. . . just because you don't have the capacity to come up with ideas like that doesn't mean that everyone else has to be in a drug-induced stupor to do so.  The only drug-inspired work of art I know is Coleridge's Kubla Khan, and he never even finished it because he forgot what it was supposed to be about.  Alice in Wonderland was not written under the influence of drugs; Carroll did use drugs, but the two did not coincide.  I'm not sure about references, but I'm willing to bet they're as much coincidental as anything.
That smurf stuff is bullcrap.  You've been watching too much Donnie Darko or something.
As for fairy tales, most of them were originally really gruesome.  They were thought up hundreds of years ago, when people didn't try to protect their children from harsh realities, Disney and gang only cleaned them up recently.  Little Red Riding Hood: Girl goes to see grandma, meets wolf he beats her there.  He kills the grandmother, drains her blood into a glass and cuts her meat up and serves it on a platter.  Disguises himself and gets in bed.  Riding Hood comes in, the wolf tells her to eat her grandmother.  She does.  The wolf then tells her to take her clothes off and throw them in the fire.  She does.  He doesn't rape her, but the standard "oh grandma, what big x" you have goes on.  After she says teeth he devours her alive.  There is no woodcutter.

But for Shigeru Miyamoto, I honestly doubt that he was under chemical influence when he came up with any of his ideas.  I'm the sort of person who comes up with creative ideas, so I can see where he's coming from.  I've been accused of using drugs to think of what I've thought of, but I never have.  I hardly even drink.  Blaming it on drugs is just an easy way to make up for the fact that you can't think of those ideas.
There's nothing wrong with having mushrooms in the game, and having them affect you in some way (like the originals), but Nintendo won't descend to some drug reference thing that may not have even been there in the first place.

Edit: Lewis Carroll Link http://www.megabrands.com/carroll/forf.html

[Don'tHate742]

Just for the record, I didn't really think he was on drugs. And your right, most people who come up with creative ideas aren't under the influence.

I just wanted to say......you never know.

[nemo_83]

The man takes a drink.  The drink takes a drink.  The drink takes the man.  


I just wanted to say that before I say that the history of art, music, and writing is full of torid lives pathed with depression, love loss, and substance abuse.  Poe, Faulkner, Hunter Thompson, Van Goh, Egon Shiele, Kurt Kobain, Jimmy Hendrix, Chuck Jones, etc.  Some of these people had some screws lose without question, but they were also great artists.



I don't understand how having drug symbolism would hurt the series.  Nothing could hurt it as much as another water gun installment.  The entire fan base that generated the high sells of Mario Bros and NES are young adults now and they are the people who are going to buy a new Mario Bros game.  Does Nintendo want to limit themselves again or do they want to reactivate their buyers with something that is bathed in the mythology of Super Mario Bros?

[Don'tHate742]

I see your point, and with today's teens, it could be popular. Movie's solely based on drug-affair have sold outrageouly (Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas), but they were also good.

I just think you need to take it from a different perspective though. Realizing the drug aspect in Mario, and placing it fully into the games, is the same as realizing that Mario is a communist.


Don't get me wrong, I'm not arguing with you. I would buy a Mario game, where taking a mushroom transforms the creatures and surroundings into different colors, and different entities, in a second. I could see that becoming one of my favorite games actually; it could be done so well within the Mario Universe.

[nemo_83]

Quote
Originally posted by: Don'tHate742
I see your point, and with today's teens, it could be popular. Movie's solely based on drug-affair have sold outrageouly (Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas), but they were also good.

I just think you need to take it from a different perspective though. Realizing the drug aspect in Mario, and placing it fully into the games, is the same as realizing that Mario is a communist.


Don't get me wrong, I'm not arguing with you. I would buy a Mario game, where taking a mushroom transforms the creatures and surroundings into different colors, and different entities, in a second. I could see that becoming one of my favorite games actually; it could be done so well within the Mario Universe.

That is exactly the ambition I was wanting to take with the shrooms.  To open the proverbial pandoras box that only a virtual world like a video game could have.  With a game you can have the graphical style change throughout the game.  For example black and white, grayscale, lines, bleeding colors, abstract character models, and any alternative visual Nintendo does not need to use as the standard graphical style in the game can be induced by the taking of certain mushrooms.  Sort of like how in Pokemon you gotta catch em all.  For example, you could take several of a certain fungus and the sky could turn purple and the clouds could go into fast foward while everything on the ground goes into slow motion, including the music, character voices, and sound effects.  

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v695/nemo_83/linetreedark.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v695/nemo_83/linetree.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v695/nemo_83/lineswirltree.jpg

What is wrong with being a communist?    

[Rancid Planet]

Quote
Originally posted by: KDR_11k
Rancid: Methinks you have no idea how the mind of an artist works. Some people are insane enough to be like that without any drugs.

KDR_11k: Methinks you have no sense of humor.

Quote
Originally posted by: Hostile Creation
I assure you Rancid, nemo, Don'tHate. . . just because you don't have the capacity to come up with ideas like that doesn't mean that everyone else has to be in a drug-induced stupor to do so.

Once again...JOKE.

I know that sometimes that kind of thing is hard to figure out when you're just reading the words instead of hearing me say them BUT c'mon I even used the word "saki". Saki is a classic comedy word, like "hotdog", "cumquat" or "Dubya". Seriously guys get off the DARE bandwagon, I know MANY artists and with the exception of my friend Luke, they are ALL on drugs.

I will however admit that my sober friend is WAY better.  

[IceCold]

Quote
Originally posted by: KDR_11k
I use "insane" to describe anything that is so far off the scale that normal people couldn't have thought of it (or at least they would have rejected the idea).

Shouldnt it be, "I use Ian Sane to describe anyone that is so pessimistic that normal people are incapable of thinking so negatively (or at least they would have rejected  him)."

Oh, and yes, the original fairytales were extremely gruesome - Grimm's Fairytales etc
 

[The Omen]

Quote
I love how everyone thinks all geniuses are insane and all great artists are on drugs, since no "normal" person could come up with their ideas...Maybe it's just called having an active imagination?

And what opens up a person's imagination more than anything?  Mind altering drugs! The most imaginative person on earth is even more so when experimenting with drugs

Check your history -Opium, absynth, heroin, alcohol, LSD and so on and so forth...through history a major percentage of GREAT artists experimented with some sort of drug.  

Poe, Hemingway, Da Vinci, Picasso-the list is endless.

Shigeru may not be doing drugs currently, he may not have been at all...but he most certainly knew of the experience...even if it was second hand.

Quote
But for Shigeru Miyamoto, I honestly doubt that he was under chemical influence when he came up with any of his ideas. I'm the sort of person who comes up with creative ideas, so I can see where he's coming from. I've been accused of using drugs to think of what I've thought of, but I never have. I hardly even drink. Blaming it on drugs is just an easy way to make up for the fact that you can't think of those ideas.

The point isn't that you can't come up with creative ideas...the point is many artists come up with even crazier, better , ideas through drug use...even just plain old alcohol does the trick for many.

[Don'tHate742]

Nemo -----  I love it! I love it all. The purple sky with racing clouds was EXACTLY what I had in mind. It's like you......knew what I was thinking. The super-slowed down mario theme with echoing would be a very nice touch, not to mention the funny voices you could give Mario's enemies while "tripping." Imagine the turtles talking to each other, then imagine their reaction from a shell or fireball coming there way.

The real reason though for liking this idea, is the fact that the lastability would be huge. Playing through the same game with a different, random perspective each time would make me adore this game. Also, imagine the capabilities. Most games have to add an element into the game to make it more interesting. Take Zelda for example, they add new items to add to the gameplay, such as using the hookshot to gain access to new levels.

In this crazy Mario though, instead of adding elements, you could chAnGe elements. For example, let's say your swimming in one of the 2-D type levels, and you see a shroom box. Once you grab the shroom, you transform yourself/surroundings randomly. One outcome could be that you go through "time," and the water you once swam in becomes nice, solid land. Of course, now you have a crazy monster thing that chases and laughs a horrifing laugh. But lucky you, since you had the cape before you started "tripping," it moves from your back, and ties automatically to your waiste...then turns black. Your outfit morphs into a kungfu suit, and  your now a black-belt martial artist. Sweet!

The only problem.....ONLY problem I see with this game, is the developing time. Each level would have to be programmed to a "T". Meaning that any random transformation would have to get you were you need to go........the end of the level. Programming many more possiblities for shrooming, means programming the same level many more times.

Hands down it would be crazy fuN!


Too bad it's wishful thinking.............unless.......

[KDR_11k]

I wouldn't make that a Mario game. You'd risk diluting the brand and N is starving for new franchises, anyway. Give it its own name, perhaps make even weirder enemies, etc.

[Rancid Planet]

I bet that the developers of the home console Mario titles get tired of all the really good ideas for new gameplay experiences being used for GBA games. Mario needs some special attention for sure. I mean when you think about it the water pack system in SMS was pretty damned  innovative and for the most part, well appllied. At least that was the general concensus.

I praise the Mario developers for doing as good of a job as they have but still wish that even more Mario action could be seen on the GCN as it keeps looking more and more like SMS is all we're getting. I guess I never really got over the glory days. We had three Mario games for the NES, two for the SNES (Hell yes I count Yoshi's Island. It reeked of Mariosity) and we've had countless GB incarnations. Then we get ONE for the N64 (Granted it was called by many "TEH BEZT GAME EVAR!!1" for damn good reason but still I wanted to get my Mario on and I couldn't. Good thing I had my precious Banjo games from Rare huh?

Basically I've been jonesing for Mario too often over the course of the last couple console generations and it SUX LYKE TEH BILL GAYTEZ!!1one!  

[IceCold]

Yes, I admit that I really wanted another Mario title on the Gamecube. However, it would take a lot of resources, time, effort, and staff to make, wouldn't it?  

[Rancid Planet]

It should and apparantly they have been at work on this title for along time. I argued earlier in adifferent thread that a game like SSBM could be rushed abit and not lose that much of value. But if anyone dares rush Mario, hey that could be a bad mistake.

Mario has been open to a ton of criticism lately anyway. The last thing the Mario series needs is a real letdown game.

[nemo_83]

The water pack was over hyped, you couldn't fly with it, it really was kind of weird even for a Mario game, it was a permanent fixture in the game, and it was only put to good use in my opinion in the first level.  Mario is suppossed to be about simplicity yet they give you a robot water gun as your ally in the game as appossed to Luigi, Yoshi, or DK.  Nintendo seemed like they had good intentions with the game.  They spoke of trying to make the series more realistic or more mature, but they failed to see that what was keeping Mario from continuing success was the presentation of the character's personality and the tone of the game.  The tone of Mario Sunshine is comparable to shows on public broadcasting staring large eyed colorful aliens.  I feel like the people at Nintendo felt that they needed to change Mario because they thought the market would not find him palatable.  They were right, but they were wrong about what needed to be advanced.  Personally I don't like the idea of using a water gun throughout the game.  I prefer the old method of jumping on enemy heads because Mario Bros introduced that to me.  Why change it?  Why not focus more of gameplay on that?  Why can't a 3D Mario game have more linear extreme sports type race tracks using turtle shells as boards?  I always liked how in old Mario Bros games you were able to collect powerups like flight, Yoshi, or some bomb, plant, etc. you picked up; but those powers or tools were always temporary and often readily exchanged for new items.  Sunshine instead focused on having a bot that adapted to every situation.  It could fire streams of water, it could hover, it could make Mario run fast, and it could shoot him into the air.  They did not make it more simple.  They made the game even less accessable.  Sales are the proof.

People would take to a smoking, smelly, loud, sweaty, lazy, and hairy plumber more than the Mickey Mouse type Mario found in Sunshine.  People can relate to a dirtier Mario because that is closer to reality.  Mario is a plumber.  He is in the buisness of unclogging toilets of used tampons and fecal related septic blockage.  The Mario Bros wade in the poo.  


No sorostitutes were harmed during the writing of this rant.

[Artimus]

"People would take to a smoking, smelly, loud, sweaty, lazy, and hairy plumber more than the Mickey Mouse type Mario found in Sunshine. People can relate to a dirtier Mario because that is closer to reality."

People wouldn't play that game. There's a difference between 'realistic' and 'mature' and offputting. Plumbers are not cool. Smelly, loud, sweaty and hairy plumbers are gross, not cool.

[KDR_11k]

(BTW, Hostile, don't blame the cleaning up on Disney, blame it on the Brothers Grimm because their versions already removed or covered up all the overly violent stuff. Sorry, just saw that post of yours.)

Seriously, Nemo, what do you think a realistic Super Mario Bros. would look like? Here's a few hints: Yoshi is a dinosaur. Bowser is some businessman evolved from a T-Rex who "devolves" his goons to turn them into dinosaurs and attack the brothers. The princess is also a descendant of the dinosaurs but she resembles the damsel in distress in King Kong. The whole thing is widely regarded as THE reason why movie adaptions of video games are a bad idea.

[IceCold]

Yoshi WAS in SMS...

[Rancid Planet]

Quote
Originally posted by: IceCold
Yoshi WAS in SMS...

You beat me to it...

[nemo_83]

Quote
Originally posted by: IceCold
Yoshi WAS in SMS...

I was refering to how the water pack was a permanent side kick to Mario where Luigi wasn't invited on the vacation and Yoshi was useless.  Yoshi could not swim, enter stages, fly, spit fire, and the island was not large enough to justify Mario just needing something like Yoshi to travel around.



"Seriously, Nemo, what do you think a realistic Super Mario Bros. would look like? Here's a few hints: Yoshi is a dinosaur. Bowser is some businessman evolved from a T-Rex who "devolves" his goons to turn them into dinosaurs and attack the brothers. The princess is also a descendant of the dinosaurs but she resembles the damsel in distress in King Kong. The whole thing is widely regarded as THE reason why movie adaptions of video games are a bad idea."

That is why I asked if anyone had looked at the pictures I drew.  Even my most altered character designs feature a visual style in pursuit of Chuck Jones and Walt Disney.  I used Bugs Bunny as an example of a similar evolution in appearance.  You can find the same thing with Mickey Mouse, Porky Pig, and Daffy Duck.  If you want to know what I think Yoshi should look like then check out my sketches.  My favorite aspect that I changed about the character was the eyes.  Rather than giving Yoshi large eyes like most of the other characters I gave him chameleon eyes.  Perhaps he could even change colors voluntarily for camo in the next game.

I want to see the game in cel shading so that the characters can be cartoonish and super deformed.  I want the game to be surreal, but you have to understand that some aspect of Mario and Luigi has to say plumber besides their resume.  Mario and Luigi require the personality of plumbers for the joke to come full circle.  The player needs to be convinced through the characters' personalities and actions that they are plumbers, not because we are told they are plumbers.  First rule of writing is show the reader.  Do not tell the reader.  We need to see Mario's belly bounce as he jumps so we are reminded that he is fat.  We need to see Luigi smoke a cigar to remind us that these guys are blue colar.  We need to see them with five o clock shadows.  The characters of Mario and Luigi require more muted colors.  Think The Triplets of Bellville.  We need to be convinced by the performance of the characters of the characters' pasts as plumbers.  Once we look again at them as plumbers then we are more convinced that Nintendo can laugh at itself.  We need to be reminded of the Monty Python nonsensical plot of Mario Bros.  Two plumbers find a worm hole that transports them to an alternate reality similar to the imagination worlds of Alice in Wonderland, The Wizard of Oz, Labrinth, and The Neverending Story.  There the plumbers use their skills as plumbers to navigate across the Mushroom Kingdom to defeat the dragon King Koopa who has kidnapped Princess Toadstool.  The premise is nutts, but that is what makes it so classic.  

I'm going to go back and edit my first post so that every pic I have posted throughout the topic that I drew will be in one post.  

[IceCold]

I don't know about the cigar part - I don't think that Nintendo would venture that way, but the 5 o'clock shadow etc is feasible

[Artimus]

Mario games don't need all those things. SMS would've been no better if it had them. It wasn't quite as good as the rest (it's still a good game managing almost 95% on GameRankings as people tend to ignore...) because it was reptitive and had poor presentation. Imagine a Mario Platformer with the humour and intelligence of Paper Mario. If they really went all out then they don't need some wacky drug angle. I've always found the drug angle is most strongly supported by non-artists. It's as if they're trying to justify their lack of similar talent.

[Spak-Spang]

Yes, lets change the look and design of one of the most noticably and known characters in video games, and in fact all of cartoons.  Do you realize Mario hangs out with such characters as Bugs Bunny and Mickey Mouse in instant recognition?  In some places people know how Mario is more than Mickey Mouse!!!

Mario is a timeless character that doesn't need to change.  

[nemo_83]

Quote
Originally posted by: Spak-Spang
Yes, lets change the look and design of one of the most noticably and known characters in video games, and in fact all of cartoons.  Do you realize Mario hangs out with such characters as Bugs Bunny and Mickey Mouse in instant recognition?  In some places people know how Mario is more than Mickey Mouse!!!

Mario is a timeless character that doesn't need to change.

Both Mickey Mouse and Bugs Bunny have been redesigned in the past.  I am trying to retain the spirit of the characters' designs when they take a mushroom and begin to morph.  The main character designs for Mario and Luigi would be 3D cartoon versions of the design used on the cover of Super Mario Bros. 3.  Just look at my Mario Bros. 5 picture.  I want to see an adventure/platformer that is more like Paper Mario with humor and cel shading coolness.

[Rancid Planet]

Out of all the changes that could be made to the Mario franchise a graphical overhaul concerns me the least. I mean a new look would be cool and neat but I don't feel like I would care about it much after a while.