Topic: Mario 128 early 06 with a fixed camera - EGM

[nemo_83]

In the infamous April issue EGM says that Mario 128 may be out by early 06 and will feature a "fixed camera."  That may mean improved over Sunshine's camera which worked well most of the time or it could mean the game is a side scroller.  Since the Revolution is going to be backwards compatable Nintendo can release Mario 128 on the GameCube and have a proper Mario Bros. game on shelves months before the Revolution's launch.  

I liked how in Mario 64 x 4 they put some of the power ups back in.  I really want to see the Mario Brothers go on cooperative adventures that lead them to themed lands featuring sidescrolling platforming levels.  I do not want to see Mario with a realistic gun like Shadow, that was sort of eerie.  If you are going to give Mario a gun then the gun needs to fit Mario's world.  Look at the guns in Chuck Jones cartoons with Bugs Bunny.  Look at the gun with the cartoon bullets in Who Framed Roger Rabbit.  Mario games have featured bullet bills in the past and now would be a good time to make them play a larger roll in the game as shooters have become popular.  Redesigns of old characters from Mario Bros. 2 with the gun barrel faces come to mind.  

Power ups need to include stars for invincibility and speed.  Racoon tails or feathers could be stacked to give you more and more magic power to fly.  For example, as you gather more racoon tails Mario or Luigi will grow racoon ears, get dark circles around their eyes, become more hairy, grow up to three racoon tails, be able to fly like super man and climb like spider man.  The tail could be used to hover over platforms and as you gain your max number of racoon tails you become beast like.  You could stack mushrooms too.  All different types of mushrooms would have different affects and you could grow or shrink multiple time warping the appearance of Mario, Yoshi, or Luigi.


Flowers need to come back as the herbal substitute to the gun and it needs to change each character the same as the mushrooms affect all characters.  You could fire more rappid fireballs or charge them to increase their size and velocity from your nose by taking in bigger breaths.  You could also combine powerups.  You could fly and shoot fireballs.  You could fly while you have a star and leave tracers or something tailing you.


I believe there should be some kind of new power up but I have not come up with anything I feel is worthy except maybe an ice flower.  

I do know that the pipes need to play a larger role in the next game taking Mario and Luigi on strange new adventures.  They need to acknowledge Mario and Luigi's past lives in their own world.  Make us feel something in the characters.  Do they long to leave their Alice in Wonderland trip we began with the first shroom cap way back in 80s.  The game needs to play off of the nostalgia of the series.  Donkey Kong could be the alternative to Yoshi and could climb up things as well as pick up and throw things where as Yoshi eats things.  DK or Yoshi could eat a bunch of mushrooms and become twenty or fourty foot tall giants.  

here are some more doodles that I posted throughout the topic and moved here

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v695/nemo_83/mariobros.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v695/nemo_83/linetreedark.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v695/nemo_83/linetree.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v695/nemo_83/lineswirltree.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v695/nemo_83/donkeykong.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v695/nemo_83/smb5.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v695/nemo_83/luigi.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v695/nemo_83/mouser.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v695/nemo_83/mario.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v695/nemo_83/treeofknowledge.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v695/nemo_83/yellowtreeoflife.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v695/nemo_83/whitetreeoflife.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v695/nemo_83/darktreeoflife.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v695/nemo_83/treeoflife.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v695/nemo_83/lighttreeoflife.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v695/nemo_83/blacktreeoflife.jpg

 

[Don'tHate742]

I'm not sure about DK being in the game, but Yoshi could definitely.

I like your idea about mixing powerups....It was the only thing I wished was in the past Marios. Anyways, I think levels should be playable with whatever power-up combinations, though a specific combination makes the level easier. Also, you didn't mention the frog suit or the boot. A level could consist of parts in which flying is useful, but all the sudden you head into water where the frog suit is useful. Towards the end of that particular level, an item for speed only would be useful because a gaint turtle shell chases you across the screen. Alternative methods should still be able to finish the level, but having the feather/frog suit/speed-item combination allows for it to be beat relatively easy. Clues could be given to what combination you need. Stars shouldn't be able to upgrade. They should still be temporary, and do not change the combination of power-ups you have at that point.

Warp Pipes should not just transport you to a different area (underground, bonus area), but it should warp you to previous Marios to bring back that nostalgic feeling. Imagine playing this new Mario 128, then after warping through a pipe, you end up playing bowser in the original NES version. A nice graphical cutscene of sorts should take place, maybe with Mario warping and transforming, you still don't know what he's going to end up looking like or what game he's from. Then he lands on the ground, a big cloud of dust covers him so you can't see him, then he appears as NES Mario. Once you defeat Bowser, you reap a bonus item (maybe a combination chooser, so you can pick exactly what 3 power-ups you want), or the beloved flute.

It'd be interesting to say the least if Nintendo went with something like this....nice speculation

[Nephilim]

Quote
Flowers need to come back as the herbal substitute to the gun and it needs to change each character the same as the mushrooms affect all characters. You could fire more rappid fireballs or charge them to increase their size and velocity from your nose by taking in bigger breaths. You could also combine powerups. You could fly and shoot fireballs. You could fly while you have a star and leave tracers or something tailing you.

No that would ruin the game, this is mario, not a anime....
The return of power ups really ruined mario64x4, most of the editted stars which used boxes were easy, even worse the other stars became easier because u could easly avoid doing hard parts by using a ability
SupermarioDS already has shown us that it has flower and mega mushroom's, looks simple still atm.
I dont see why mario128 has to have gimmicks.

[Savior]

Not a April Fools joke?

[Ian Sane]

Well I figure this is fake since it's the April issue.  We'll see at E3 I guess.

"Since the Revolution is going to be backwards compatable Nintendo can release Mario 128 on the GameCube and have a proper Mario Bros. game on shelves months before the Revolution's launch."

I've seen this reasoning a lot and it makes no sense.  So because of backwards compatibility Nintendo can release their next major Mario game on the Cube and it will sell Revolutions?  It doesn't work that way.  Backwards compatibility is nice but people aren't going to buy a Rev for a Cube game.  There's no point since you don't need a Rev to play it.  It might sort of work for newcombers but existing Cube owners for example likely wouldn't go for it since they already own the required hardware.  I'd rather Nintendo wait for the Revolution for their next Mario game.  It makes no sense to release a brand new Mario game on the old hardware in the same year the new hardware is being released.  Ideally I guess having both would be the best scenario but I doubt they can pull that off.

[Bill Aurion]

The Realistic Wind Waker remake was the key April Fool's Joke in the issue, and I don't think they generally do more than one, do they?  Also, rumor guy, EAD Ninja, gave the same rumor around a month back...

[BlkPaladin]

We will see what it is about this E3. So as far as this go it a rumor, until sustaniated.

[Spak-Spang]

Bill:  I would actually take a very different approach to the new Mario game.  Fixed Camera is a must.  I would want Mario brought back to a more traditional gameplay in a 2D enviroment...or perhaps 2 1/2D.  

The gameplay would go back to the roots and focus purely on advanced jumping mechanics that Mario can perform.

Here is what I am thinking:  Remember the bonus Stars in Super Mario Sunshine where you went into the special traditional levels, and relied on doing all your moves to beat the level?  Imagine that gameplay in the perfection of a 2D enviroment.  

I want Mario to be running around jumping and dodging Koopas and Hammer Brothers, while triple jumping and Wall jumping to the finish of the levels.  I want the levels to be crazy designs, with equal amounts vertical and horizontal scrolling.  But the emphasis is almost purely on jumping and dodging.

Speaking of dodging I want the Super Smash Brothers Dodge technique incorporated into the game, so I can jump towards a hammer brother, dodge, and smash his head without having to stop movement.  

Last, I want the bare essentials of powerups.  Take way the hats and focus again on the suits.

1)Fire Flowers are a must, but you should be able to shoot them while moving throughout your jumps.
2)Feather:  The cape was awesome and fit Mario so well, besides the Racoon Suit and Tanuki suit were too confusing together.
3)Tanuki Suit.  (Don't call it Tanooki suit) that was just how they spelled it so stupid Americans could pronounce it.
4)Frog Suit.
5)Star
6)Mushroom

Drop Yoshi from the game, and design special levels that require 2-4 player support.  These levels require cooperation to advance.  

[Hostile Creation]

Is it really reasonable to include stages that require 2-4 player support?  You mean as in different areas for multiplayer or in the main game?  Because requiring that wouldn't make much sense, maybe just for extra stuff.
A return to suits and classic platforming would be great, but I'm open to something new as well.  Or perhaps a combination of the two.

[Ian Sane]

It's interesting how so many people want to turn Mario into a 2.5D game as if that's the solution to the Mario "problem".  First of all I don't feel that 3D Mario is broken.  Super Mario 64 was amazing.  Everyone loved it.  There's only been one more 3D Mario platformer since then and it uses largely the same design.  Suddenly this design is broken?  I found that any problems with Super Mario Sunshine were because the level design just wasn't so hot.  It had nothing to do with the overall play design itself.

If there is a problem it has nothing to do with the fully-3D design.  The problem is with what that design is being used for.  Collecting stuff is boring.  Rare took it to insane extremes and we all got sick of it.  However you can still have the gameplay of Super Mario 64/Sunshine without making a collectathon.  You don't need to go 2.5D to make levels that are focused on one goal.  Mario 64 had the Bowser levels, Sunshine had the secret levels, even DK64 has minecart bonus stages that work as one goal levels.  Getting stars really is often just completing a goal.  So instead of having one big area with lots of goals just make several small areas with one or two goals.  The penguin race in Super Mario 64 for example didn't have to be part of a bigger level.  It could have stood on it's own.

If I designed a new 3D Mario game I would make the game take place in a big hubworld where instead of finding stars or whatever you find levels.  Then each level has one or two goals and that's it.  This is basically the Super Mario World design except instead of a big map you move on you get a whole 3D world to explore.

And while I like the old power-ups I would rather they work on new ones.  We're all familar with Racoon Mario but that powerup only existed in ONE GAME.  It was brand new for SMB3 and hasn't been used since.  Yet we all love it and remember it.  All of these powerups were new at one point so instead of staying put and being nostalgic Mario should move forward and introduce new powerups for us to identify with.  I love the idea of suits but I would like to see brand new suits.  Mario seems to have become nostagic recently but that's not what he's supposed to be.  Mario's legacy is built around being on top and moving forward.  Mario became big because he was always current not because he was nostalgic.

[Bill Aurion]

You don't need to go 2.5D to make levels that are focused on one goal. Mario 64 had the Bowser levels, Sunshine had the secret levels, even DK64 has minecart bonus stages that work as one goal levels. Getting stars really is often just completing a goal. So instead of having one big area with lots of goals just make several small areas with one or two goals. The penguin race in Super Mario 64 for example didn't have to be part of a bigger level. It could have stood on it's own.

I just don't feel 3D levels can be built to function as 2d levels with a start and finish without feeling somewhat incomplete...The Secret Stages in Sunshine were fantastic, yes, but I can't see the entire game based on them alone...I'm personally fond of the open-nature of the 3D Marios, with the addition of "goal-based" mini-stages...The only thing to counter-act this is for Ninty to get along and finish Super Mario Brothers DS

[Hostile Creation]

I don't want 2.5D, I think it'd be cool to have some of the old gameplay elements in a fully 3D game.  For example: as many enemies in the 3D game as there are in the 2D game; that would be intense.  Think Super Mario World transformed into 3D.

[Morales]

I like the sounds of this and yeah, EAD Ninja did say this recently as well.   I could foresee a 3d more action oriented Mario game.  Pipes could warp you to sidescrolling mini-levels for some great classic platforming.

[Savior]

EGM has more than 1 April Fools joke.

Personally i hope it is a joke, just because i want Mario 128 on the Revolution. Releasing it 2006 is just like releasing Conker late in the N64s cycle....  

[Hostile Creation]

Savior, I'm pretty sure they guaranteed that Mario 128 would be on Gamecube.  Didn't Reggie say something along those lines?

[Bill Aurion]

He originally said so in a previous interview, but he was vague when questioned on it at GDC...Now all we know is that it will definitely be shown at E3 with no platform indicated...

[Savior]

I thought he said it would be revealed at E3

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

and that was all.

[Rellik]

Man, Mario Sunshine sure was great, wasn't it?

I wouldn't mind another game using the Mario Sunshine engine, at all!  It was fun

[nemo_83]

With a 2d Mario Bros. game, key word being Bros., we could have two-four player coop with the brothers on screen at the same time or have them racing against each other Mario Kart style on foot using powerups and shortcut pipes to the end of the level.  There is no end of the level in 3d unless you stick them on a track like Mario Kart, but with 2d you have a linear stage allowing for pipes to be used for short cuts and secret rooms/ministages.  I don't think there should be a flashy visual transforming Mario if he were to temporarily visit a past game it should be so fast that it catches you off guard.  You should be able to go down a pipe and not expect him to come out of a pipe in the second Mario Bros. game as the screen fades in and out.  

Really what I was thinking though is making the pipes the short cut mechanism/alternative to riding Yoshi across the Mushroom Kingdom.

I don't think you should be able to get multiple stars, but I think you should be able to say have a flower and then get a temporary star allowing you to shoot stars instead of fireballs.  They should play off the old games and the fact that this is a video game.  They should have him shoot his fireballs from his nose as it appears he does in the original game.  Fireboogers.

I had an idea that I originally forgot to include.  I don't want the frog suit to come back.  Instead I want to be able to get a beaver tail allowing tail swipes against enemys, blocks, or switches; and you can use it to swim.  Maybe if you got more than one Mario would grow buck teeth and ears similar to how he transforms more and more into a racoon suit.  Remember in Mario 3 you could get the racoon tail, and then there was the full body racoon suit.  

I thought that the natural progression for Mario after he learned how to fly in Mario 3 was to follow Sonic's footsteps and add speed to his number of powerups.  That is why I included speed as an attribute to the star powerup.

[Caterkiller]

I always figured he shot the fire balls from the tip of his finger. Thats the way he was made in one of Nintendo's official Mario Trophy figures.  

[Bloodworth]

I would prefer a mix of the two styles in some way.  I think Ian Sane's concept matches my own desire pretty well.  Say you have hubs similar to the different world maps in SMB3, but the hubs are actually in full 3D with doorways to individual stages hidden about.  The stages might be 2D, 2.5D, or even 3D, but put the focus back on the simple goal of making it to the end of a level, rather than having to re-enter the same level over and over to find stars or coins or whatever.

[nemo_83]

me and my friends always joked that they were coming from his nose.  this is one of the many subtle ways that the series can regain its cool factor.

I understand that the game needs a balance between 3d, 2d, and 2.5d.  The world maps would be more like the 3d world maps of the 3d Mario games, and even feature some 3d stages, but mostly I want to see 2d racing/platforming/exploration stages.  A key thing about a new Mario Bros. game is that it needs eight worlds, not just one; and it needs many stages.

[Don'tHate742]

Quote
Originally posted by: Bloodworth
I would prefer a mix of the two styles in some way.  I think Ian Sane's concept matches my own desire pretty well.  Say you have hubs similar to the different world maps in SMB3, but the hubs are actually in full 3D with doorways to individual stages hidden about.  The stages might be 2D, 2.5D, or even 3D, but put the focus back on the simple goal of making it to the end of a level, rather than having to re-enter the same level over and over to find stars or coins or whatever.

I see your point, and yes that would be sweet, but I couldn't help but feel like that would be wasting resources. If they made a 3-D level, similar to those seen already wouldn't it be a waste just to have one or two goals?

If yout not talking about areas of that size than that is more plausible in a developer perspective. I could see mini-3D levels like Mario riding on a shell to reach the end of the level, along the way you notice a cave that has a huge warning reading "DON'T ENTER!" Naturally you don't and you get your star. For the second star, you could enter it and fight a boss battle while riding a shell....maybe a whale or something.

I like the idea and kudos to Ian. It would give the developers more incentive to be really creative. I still like my idea of finding secret warp-pipes that send you into the old Mario games (ANY game, 2d/3d) and make you complete random tasks to get the secret prize of something.

[KDR_11k]

Don'tHate: When you make a game you don't think "Wouldn't it be a waste to have the player do this only once?" or you end up with levels like Halo.

What I'd like to see added to any arcade-style game would be extra challenges, e.g. putting you into a crowded part of a level and demanding you not to hit any enemies, throwing a wave at you and saying "eliminate all Xs, don't hit anything else", having you complete a part of the level without hitting the ground by making you jump from enemy to enemy, etc.