Author Topic: LOZ: 2005 (Read 721023 times)

Kairon · « **Reply #2400 on:** August 27, 2006, 09:17:13 AM »

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Originally posted by: Svevan

This is a rough topic for me because I believe so much in authorial intent and directorial control when it comes to the cinema, but for video games I truly believe it is something closer to group art, similar to how Pixar makes movies. But sidestepping that philosophical discussion, Aonuma has given us no reason to distrust him; I laud the last two Zelda games over OoT. Miyamoto isn't magic - it's not as though his very presence makes everything better. We're talking about talent, skill, ability, and work ethic, things that any director has to have, be he Miyamoto or Aonuma. So let's not put Aonuma down just because of hero-worship.

It's not hero worship. I really didn't like the job that Aonouma has done with the last two Zeldas. I considered Majora's Mask a g!mmick and Wind Waker was a huge disappointment in terms of quality. It's odd that I enjoyed OoT's dungeons so much because that's supposedly what Aonouma's contribution to that game was, but as a Director I have nothing but reasons to distrust his ability to come through in style. He'll make a good game, sure, and Zelda will get critical aplomb. But I expect that I personally will find it flawed in some manner just as I have the last two Aonouma Zeldas.

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Originally posted by: Svevan

Again, I disagree. No translation is 100% accurate, ever, and poets translating from another language have for hundreds of years discarded accuracy and embraced relevance. It is good that NOA and EAD operate in such unity; division breeds assumption and miscalculation.

Funny, I totally agree with what you said. For example, OoT's localization didn't translate stuff literally, they interpreted the weight of the Great Deku Tree's speach and gave him an appropriate speaking pattern. I have nothing against interpretive translations and even changing the events in a storyline as long as it communicates the central ideas and themes behind the original as well as it should. For this reason, I hardly care when a movie version of a book comes out and changes events as long as the movie itself is good. With Zelda, I hardly care if they even change some of the meanings of certain lines, as long as the real ideas and themes behind the experience are preserved.

In this way, I only want translators to be empowered to bring the original vision to life in a culturally relevant way, not to censure or soften or couch the message, but to deliver it in a way that the human heart understands it the same way no matter what language is used.

~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com

Bill Aurion · « **Reply #2401 on:** August 27, 2006, 09:48:30 AM »

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Originally posted by: Kairon
There is only one man who should be directing Zelda and that man is Miyamoto. But he isn't. So Zelda... the TRUE Zelda, to me... already doesn't exist.

Get out...

(Fun fact: The best Zelda game wasn't directed by Miyamoto...Sup, Link's Awakening...)

Kairon · « **Reply #2402 on:** August 27, 2006, 10:36:02 AM »

OMG! THAT EXPLAINS WHY I DON'T LIKE LINK'S AWAKENING!

MY ENTIRE LIFE ISN'T A LIE LIKE I THOUGHT IT WAS!

THANK YOU BILL! YOU GAVE ME BACK MY TRUE SELF!

I AM ALIVE! I AM ALIVE! I LIVE!

YAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY!!!!!!!!!!

~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com

Bill Aurion · « **Reply #2403 on:** August 27, 2006, 12:21:51 PM »

This explains why you aren't a REAL Zelda fan either!

TAR THE HERETIC!

Kairon · « **Reply #2404 on:** August 27, 2006, 12:52:57 PM »

I will never repent! I will never betray Miyamoto!

Do your WORST!

~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com

Bill Aurion · « **Reply #2405 on:** August 27, 2006, 02:29:00 PM »

It doesn't matter...The evidence you have revealed to the court proves beyond a reasonable doubt that you are not a Zelda fan! Admit it! ADMIT IT!

Infernal Monkey · « **Reply #2406 on:** August 27, 2006, 02:31:46 PM »

Not liking Link's Awakening is a CRIME. >=(

Kairon · « **Reply #2407 on:** August 27, 2006, 03:17:41 PM »

I proudly admit it!

And if it's a crime to like the master's handiwork more than anything else, than I lock me up and throw away the key!

~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com

KnowsNothing · « **Reply #2408 on:** August 27, 2006, 03:27:12 PM »

I think you just gave mods permission to ban you.

YOU DESERVE IT

Kairon · « **Reply #2409 on:** August 27, 2006, 04:19:11 PM »

I regret that I have but one IP address to give for my art.

~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com

King of Twitch · « **Reply #2410 on:** August 27, 2006, 04:19:31 PM »

Crucify him, crucify him

Hostile Creation · « **Reply #2411 on:** August 27, 2006, 04:25:25 PM »

Link's Awakening is the best Zelda game. Ocarina of Time pales in comparison to it. Anyone who disagrees shall have judgement passed on him, when his time comes.

Caliban · « **Reply #2412 on:** August 27, 2006, 04:27:00 PM »

Isn't Link's Awakening the GB game where...oh I remember now, nothing special about it, great game but nothing overly special.

TP will kick LA ass!

IceCold · « **Reply #2413 on:** August 27, 2006, 04:35:37 PM »

Link's Awakening is certainly a great game, but best Zelda game ever? Not a chance.

Bill Aurion · « **Reply #2414 on:** August 27, 2006, 04:36:34 PM »

TWO MORE GUILTY VERDICTS!

KnowsNothing · « **Reply #2415 on:** August 27, 2006, 04:39:58 PM »

GET OUTTA MAH FORUHMZ

IceCold · « **Reply #2416 on:** August 27, 2006, 06:16:38 PM »

Some parts of the game were brilliant, but others just did not excel in the same way. I did love the underlying themes and the mood. That still doesn't make it the best Zelda game ever, though..

Athrun Zala · « **Reply #2417 on:** August 27, 2006, 06:29:28 PM »

regarding translation, it depends a lot, as long as the idea or message remains the same (but isn't altered, ie editing scenes or whatever), then it's fine. The prime example of this, to me at least, is the LatinAmerican translation of the Koni-chan anime, which is one of the greatest I've seen...

and Link's Awakening is great, but not the best, I love MM too much

(oh look! directed by Aonuma! TP FTW)

Kairon · « **Reply #2418 on:** August 27, 2006, 07:20:09 PM »

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Originally posted by: Athrun Zala
oh look! directed by Aonuma!

*strangled gurgle of anguish*

~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com

couchmonkey · « **Reply #2419 on:** August 28, 2006, 05:46:25 AM »

Oh boy! My very important opinion is that Wind Waker and Ocarina of Time are both better than Link's Awakening (with Wind Waker being #1), but Link's Awakening is probably third. I'm still undecided on Majora's Mask and The Minish Cap. I've also never played the Oracle games, but it seems like the consensus is that they're not better than Link's Awakening.

I tend to like the 3D games better because I get a greater sense of immersion from them. My memories of the 2D games are largely made up of major events - fighting certain bosses, receiving my sword: stuff like that. In the 3D games I can remember totally incidental scenes like peering into the canyon outside the Gerudo Valley or watching to see how far away I could sail before I couldn't see the Tower of the Gods on the horizon anymore.

As for translation, I don't mind some interpretation as long as the original story and intentions are in tact, and the writing is good.

Hostile Creation · « **Reply #2420 on:** August 28, 2006, 06:17:30 AM »

I don't even like the first three Zeldas (well, I do, but not in the capacity that I like the later Zeldas), because Link's Awakening established exactly what a Zelda game is. It was the first with worthwhile sideplots, interesting characters, a compelling story, really complex puzzles, and surprisingly great combat for a Gameboy game. A Link to the Past was just hack and slash. Link's Awakening took Zelda to a new level, and achieved a sense of beauty, and a unity between the gamer and the game, that I've yet to reexperience with Zelda.

NinGurl69 *huggles · « **Reply #2421 on:** August 28, 2006, 07:29:54 AM »

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Originally posted by: Hostile Creation
I don't even like the first three Zeldas (well, I do, but not in the capacity that I like the later Zeldas), because Link's Awakening established exactly what a Zelda game is. It was the first with worthwhile sideplots, interesting characters, a compelling story, really complex puzzles, and surprisingly great combat for a Gameboy game. A Link to the Past was just hack and slash. Link's Awakening took Zelda to a new level, and achieved a sense of beauty, and a unity between the gamer and the game, that I've yet to reexperience with Zelda.

Which is what MAJORA'S MASK took futher within the 3D experience, making it TEH BEST Zelda.

There's nothing you all can do to bring down the BUNNY HOOD. Get out, foo's.

couchmonkey · « **Reply #2422 on:** August 28, 2006, 07:46:41 AM »

The problem I'm having with Majora's Mask is all the forced replaying and the sheer amount of puzzle-solving required just to get into each new dungeon. I know, I'm a whiny cry-baby that sucks at Zelda, but it feels cheap when I have to redo everything because I couldn't figure a puzzle fast enough, as opposed to redoing it because I wasn't skilled enough.

I do love lots of things about it though. The atmosphere, the characters, the dungeon design, they're all great.

18 Days · « **Reply #2423 on:** August 28, 2006, 07:47:58 AM »

Evan is about to post an editorial concerning the lack of a definative Zelda

Kairon · « **Reply #2424 on:** August 28, 2006, 09:35:00 AM »

Quote
Originally posted by: Hostile Creation
I don't even like the first three Zeldas (well, I do, but not in the capacity that I like the later Zeldas), because Link's Awakening established exactly what a Zelda game is. It was the first with worthwhile sideplots, interesting characters, a compelling story, really complex puzzles, and surprisingly great combat for a Gameboy game. A Link to the Past was just hack and slash. Link's Awakening took Zelda to a new level, and achieved a sense of beauty, and a unity between the gamer and the game, that I've yet to reexperience with Zelda.

*begins to hyperventilate*

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Link's Awakening established exactly what a Zelda game is.

HOW can you say that the first real Zelda is NOT one created by Miyamoto!>?!?!?!? AKA GOD HIMSELF?!?!?!?!?! (note: hyperbole is for emotional emphasis and comedic effect, don't call me on that "god" comparison... maybe...)

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It was the first with worthwhile sideplots, interesting characters, a compelling story, really complex puzzles, and surprisingly great combat for a Gameboy game.

Zelda is NOT about story, characters, puzzles, OR combat!!!!!!!!!

.... !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Zelda is about the emotion of discovery, the sense of adventure, that first time when Miyamoto stumbled upon a limestone cavern as a child during his family picnics! ZELDA is about recreating that real, emotional, human exploration of the world around you! Zelda is NOT about creating an epic to bowl us over, it's about creating human spaces that we fill and are absorbed into, not about things we witness, but things we DO!

Zelda is NOT Final Fantasy with swordfighting, NOT an action-rpg, it is ZELDA. It IS the magic of a whole new world just around a corner. ZELDA... is a MINIATURE JAPANESE GARDEN!!! (Click that link, it's a beautiful thesis paper comparing Miyamoto's approach to game design to Japanese gardens, a crafted adventure where there's something new around every corner and secrets are just around the bend for a user to discover. Great read.)

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A Link to the Past was just hack and slash.

SACRILEGE!!!

YOU, my dear SIR... are a PHILISTINE!

~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com

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Author Topic: LOZ: 2005 (Read 721023 times)