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Episode 285: We're Finished!

by James Jones, Greg Leahy, Jon Lindemann, and Guillaume Veillette - March 25, 2012, 4:59 pm PDT
Total comments: 31

Get ready for The Last Story, every Kid Icarus game ever, and the return of Listener Mail in this week's RFN.

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Jonny couldn't make it to recording this week, so Greg pulls himself up into the RFN host's throne and welcomes back Guillaume Veillette of the Negative World Podcast to round out the crew. After being absent from the first segment last week, James leads off New Business with his final verdict on The Last Story, which is quite positive, but not unreservedly so. Next, Guillaume takes his turn with a duo of Intelligent Systems strategy games, Fire Emblem: Path of Radiance and Advance Wars: Days of Ruin, before he and Jon trade war stories from downloadable HD shmups Soldner-X 2 and Sine Mora. Greg completes the segment by looking at every single game in the 26 year history of the Kid Icarus franchise, starting with early impressions of the new 3DS stunner Uprising before comparing and contrasting the two classic entries that are available on Virtual Console (at least in Europe).

After the break, we reach back into the Listener Mail reserves to once again find a bevy of thought-provoking letters on a broad range of topics, beginning with concern for Wii U's commercial prospects in the absence of a marked technical edge over its competitors. We also answer questions on console/portable preferences, reviewing games that are drastically improved by peripherals, which Nintendo franchises stand to benefit most from DLC, and unusual control schemes that may work but still hinder your experience.      

Dr. Metts will be back next week, and we'll return to Listener Mail in the not-too-distant future, so please send in your questions and comments!

This podcast was edited by Greg Leahy.

Music for this episode of Radio Free Nintendo is used with permission from Jason Ricci & New Blood. You can purchase their newest album, Done with the Devil, directly from the record label, Amazon (CD) (MP3), or iTunes, or call your local record store and ask for it!

Additional music for this episode of Radio Free Nintendo is copyrighted to Nintendo, and is included under fair use protection.

Talkback

OK, who got swerved by the episode title?
raises his hand

JasonMaiviaMarch 25, 2012

*Raises hand*  :'(

SarailMarch 25, 2012

Not me. It's funny... but I didn't flinch.

Also, Jason... your avatar is incredible.

JasonMaiviaMarch 25, 2012

Quote from: Rachtman

Also, Jason... your avatar is incredible.

I know!  Ain't it great?  ;D 

Actually, I can't take any credit for it.  It was found somewhere online using Google.
Good ol' Google.

I haven't see anyone using Rainbow Mika as an avatar online, so I did.

UltraClaytonMarch 26, 2012

I did. I thought it would be like episode 69 of Newscast.

geoMarch 26, 2012

Greg, if you have not adjusted the sensitivity settings on KI:U, I highly recommend you do.  It makes ground controls a lot more bearable if your reticle is at maximum sensitivity and your 'fling' speed is set to a minimum.  I pretty much recommend everyone do this.

Edit: Also, I have owned a DS stand since around 2006 when I saw it at the nintendo world store.  I immediately knew I needed to have it for phoenix wright!  I primarily game on my DS/3DS IN BED lying down on my stomach, and the stand is INCREDIBLY useful for ANY kind of game.  Holding the 3DS at an angle that is comfortable in bed can be tiring on the wrists, so having it on a stand alleviates the pain.  When Kid Icarus came with a stand, I was glad to have another, unfortunately, it does not adjust in height, so I can't get a good viewing angle from my bed.  I have since reverted to my old adjustable stand, and I highly recommend it to anyone.  If you're gaming in bed, lying down on your stomach, a stand is an incredibly useful piece of technology, especially if the game is touch screen heavy.

NinSageMarch 26, 2012

Super good episode, RFN! Boo, no Jonny. Yay Guillaume!! ... he's definitely one of my top two non-American members of the podcast.  (My apologies to Gustav "the ever silent" Abrahamsen!)

c-c-c-c-combo responses ...

0a.  *raises hand about getting "swerved" by the titled*  After reading it for the 10th time I get the Kid Icarus reference, but I was totally worried the show was ending in which case I would have to stop accessing gaming media all together.  Mainstream gaming media is like the furious swipe of a Hunter, and RFN is the Green Herb. /Resident Evil analogy.

0b. It's really sad that so many, well, I'll use the term "ass clowns," get legitimate salaries in gaming media yet it seems folks like the RFN crew must hold down a day job.  I wouldn't want NWR to go corporate or anything, but c'mon! We need some justice here!

1. I really loved Crystal Bearers.  I don't know what genre to put it in and it certainly is schizophrenic - but I just know I loved (almost) every minute of it!! Over the last generation, the whole Chronicles series has usurped the flagship FF series, in my opinion.  I really hope the rumors of a new CC game turn out to be true!

LINK: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XZsCNuRcpVc

2.  Kid Icarus Uprising and the 3D Classics remake are both rocking my socks off pretty hard lately.  The way Greg articulates game nuances? Man... see above comment on gaming media pay distribution.

3. Metroid 2 was my first Metroid game.  I loved it.  Loved it, loved it, loved it.  But that's just the way things work right?  Without anything to compare it to, it was just a stellar game.  Then when I played other Metroid games it just became a "stellar franchise" to me.  It didn't ruin my experience with M2!

Note: I had the exact same experience playing Zelda 2 before Zelda 1.  Thus, I *heart* Zelda 2! Not more, mind you.  But I still *heart* it.

4. I would be so happy if Nintendo doesn't get leapfrogged with the neXtbox/PS4 come out.  Everyone knows I think the Wii is the superior console of this generation.  But that was because it had the best games and pointer (not necessarily motion) controls are a god send.

That said, the philosophy third parties adopted with the Wii because it was less powerful were just shameful and really frustrating.  So, I hope that when MS/Sony release their 8th gen systems (never say "next gen" - eventually you'll sound like a moron) they don't humble the Wii U in terms of horsepower and repeat the same frustrating process again.

5. I totally agree with what the podcast said about the KI stand.  It's nice that it's free, and it's nice to see that Nintendo will go to great lengths to support its games.  However, it does more harm than good.  It does cost money to design/produce, which means it will take that little bit more sales to be a success.  And, it absolutely sends the message that the game shouldn't be played without assistance - false as that may be.

If they were going to do anything as an admission of possible flaws, adding CPP support for aiming would have been a much, much, MUCH better choice!!

6. Yay, Gui! No DLC!  Even the phrasing of the writer's question alarms me.  Paraphrase: "What game would best be served by DLC?" NONE! Paid DLC only serves corporate wallets!

Yea, yea, DLC can technically be done ethically.  But the same can be said about communism - it just doesn't seem to work out that way! (sorry, best analogy I could come up with quickly).

In reality, DLC is just a new sport for developers to see how much abuse we're willing to take.  Nintendo is, indeed, at a disadvantage in that regard because they DO have that (relatively) squeeky-clean image of not being corporate d-bags.  Thus, any little money grab and people complain.  But that's a good thing here!  I don't care what the reason, I hope Nintendo stays nice and gun-shy about DLC!  Even with their third parties if possible.  They imposed a file-size limit on WiiWare, why not impose a d-bag limit on DLC?  Instead of full price game + DLC, they could insist on only releasing the "gold edition" with all the DLC 8 months later.

In my opinion, it would be worth the wait both financially and in terms of good faith.

Go ahead and embrace patching (let's get ready for some crippled retail discs and day-one patches!) But, please, no paid-DLC - we're already addicted to the crack of video games, please don't turn us in to crack whores.  ;D Have a nice day.  ;D

JasonMaiviaMarch 26, 2012

@NinSage

@0:32 of that video, there's a bit of underboob showing.

...not for Nintendo.  :-[

Pixelated PixiesMarch 26, 2012

Great episode guys. I was glad to see Guillaume return, he makes a great addition to the podcast. I've checked out a couple of episodes of NWP now and have enjoyed them.

I was really hoping that James would go into more detail about his experience with The Last Story. There's some really cool and funny stuff in that game, but I guess it would be unfair to spoil it for people in NA who have not yet played the game.

Fun fact: I recorded my intro from deep inside a well.

Thankfully, a courageous little boy and his dog found me and I was rescued before my Now Playing segment. The hospital room I was in had much better acoustics.

edit - I might have lied about never having bought DLC. I did get the extra missions for Space Invaders get Even on Wiiware, but I really saw it more as paying $20 for a complete budget game. And there's the DLC for Scott Pilgrim, which honestly wasn't worth it. Oh, and I got Grubbins on Ice, the DLC for Costume Quest.

So yeah. I lied. I guess the lesson to take from all this is: never trust a Canadian.

Seriously though, I think it says a lot that I didn't even remember. The Costume Quest content was alright, I suppose. I did want to go back to that game's world. But ultimately, it was nothing but a small quest tacked on a complete game.

I don't have anything against DLC in principle, I just haven't seen any that inspire me.

Fatty The HuttMarch 26, 2012

Quote from: geo

I primarily game on my DS/3DS IN BED lying down on my stomach, and the stand is INCREDIBLY useful for ANY kind of game.  ...  If you're gaming in bed, lying down on your stomach, a stand is an incredibly useful piece of technology, especially if the game is touch screen heavy.

You think I could rest the stand on my stomach while lying on my back? I'm too fat to lie on my stomach for any length of time.
You're clearly a kid. Or some kind of amazing Cirque Du Soleil contortionist.

Quote from: Shaymin

OK, who got swerved by the episode title?
raises his hand

Me. Glad the ride isn't over yet. But, let's face it, Lindy ain't gettin' any younger.  ;)

NinSageMarch 26, 2012


By the way, I have to say just how impressed I've been with the 3D Classics reskin of Kid Icarus.  The original game might have been appealing to some, but this version absolutely springs to LIFE!  The backgrounds actually enforce the STORY.  Some of the environments look downright ARTISTIC and the 3D effect on purely 2D assets?? oh my god! My eyes are watering from all the optical candy!

I never would have spent money for a downloadable like this, now? I'm very, very interested in getting more!!!!


@JasonMaivia

haha... you got some mind to have spotted that!!

Anyway, I doubt that will be the deciding factor ...

Exhibit A

Exhibit B

Exhibit C

Exhibit *cup-size joke*

The RuffiansMarch 26, 2012

@ NinSage

If my memory serves me correctly, they answered that question years ago. I don't think any of them actually have any interest in going pro. They do this for fun. Though, the good doctor almost made it to Gametrailer's Bonus Round, I think.

The RuffiansMarch 26, 2012

@ NinSage

If my memory serves me correctly, they answered that question years ago. I don't think any of them actually have any interest in going pro. They do this for fun. Though, the good doctor almost made it to Gametrailer's Bonus Round, I think.

leahsdadMarch 26, 2012

RE: Skyward Sword Controls

I have to agree with Greg.  I remember when I first played Red Steel 2, knowing full well that in a year Skyward Sword was coming out and it would have Motion+ controls for swords.  And I was TERRIFIED.  I was very, very much afraid that Skyward Sword would have similar controls, because on paper, it sure sounded like it did.


The_Darkest_RedMarch 27, 2012

Greg, I know you don't like the idea (and trust me, I didn't either) but you must try the stand with Kid Icarus. When I first got the game I thought it was a worthless peripheral that was completely unnecessary but after a few hours of playing KI I decided to give it a shot anyway. I haven't played the game on a desk or a flat service, only in places like the bed and on a couch, but the stand still works wonderfully. All you need to do is put something in your lap (like a pillow) and rest the stand on top of that. You don't have to worry about it moving or falling because your left hand will apply enough pressure to keep it in place. I know it seems silly and stupid to you now but it really does relieve your left hand significantly (plus the pillow is a nice place to rest your right arm). Give it a shot and let us know what you think next week if you get the chance!

NathanielMarch 27, 2012

I'm really disappointed with the lack of enthusiasm for Kid Icarus Uprising during the podcast.  I haven't enjoyed a game this much in many years, and to hear a collective "meh" and pass over the simply because of a misplaced trepidation over the controls is discouraging.

Quote from: Nathaniel

I'm really disappointed with the lack of enthusiasm for Kid Icarus Uprising during the podcast.  I haven't enjoyed a game this much in many years, and to hear a collective "meh" and pass over the simply because of a misplaced trepidation over the controls is discouraging.

Listen to Connectivity, then. I spoke highly of it last week, and we're planning a segment where we're all likely to just be silent and go "durrrrr i luv dis game."

This is, without a doubt, my favorite game on the 3DS. No disrespect to 3D Land, but I love me some Uprising.

Quote from: Nathaniel

I'm really disappointed with the lack of enthusiasm for Kid Icarus Uprising during the podcast.  I haven't enjoyed a game this much in many years, and to hear a collective "meh" and pass over the simply because of a misplaced trepidation over the controls is discouraging.

Well I didn't have much to say about the game since I hadn't played it yet at the time, I was getting the game the day after we recorded. But I have played the game now and I am completely addicted. I'm only up to chapter 6 because I can't stop myself from replaying previous chapters over and over again (and in a good way, not a Soldner-X 2 way ;-) ), and the multiplayer has been a blast so far (I'm gonna try to wring out as much enjoyment out of it as I can before people find exploitable glitches, haha).

I'm not going to be on the next episode, so those are my thoughts.

leahsdadMarch 27, 2012

Quote from: Pandareus

But I have played the game now and I am completely addicted. I'm only up to chapter 6 because I can't stop myself from replaying previous chapters over and over again (and in a good way, not a Soldner-X 2 way ;-) ),

Yeah, that is really weird isn't it?  After about an hour into the game, I was only at Chapter 2!  I'd played Chapter 1 about 15 or 16 times.  I think it's the whole "gambling" system, and the way that replaying at higher difficulties rewards you with better weapons and powers.  By the time I was ready to move on to Chapter 2, I had 4 kinds of Twinbellows cannons, 5 bows, a set of shock oribitars, and a slew of powers like Rocket Jump and Quick Recharge.    FYI, I'd gotten up to 7.9 in intensity.  Tried 8, but I got killed pretty quickly.

But also in terms of the replayability of levels, playing the game reminds me a whole lot of (prepare to be shocked!) STARFOX 64.  A lot of the level design aesthetic, especially the air portions, reminds me a lot of that game.  I swear, I got flashes of Corneria.

NinSageMarch 27, 2012

@Nathaniel

Fret not, my friend.  A podcast with too many people would be chaos.  And when you only have 3-5 people, a statistical likelihood is that they might not be so hyped on a certain game.  It's just their opinion and it seemed positive from what I can remember.  As long as no media outlet is giving unnecessary/unwarranted praise or criticism, it's all gooooood.

YoshidiousGreg Leahy, Staff AlumnusMarch 27, 2012

Quote from: The_Darkest_Red

Greg, I know you don't like the idea (and trust me, I didn't either) but you must try the stand with Kid Icarus.

I have played with the stand a bit since recording last week, and I continue to prefer simply resting the 3DS on my leg (I'm getting on with the controls quite well at this point, more on that next episode naturally).

Having said that, it doesn't surprise me that the stand is proving useful for some people, and as NinSage noted above, its inclusion can be regarded as a nice move on Nintendo's part in that sense. However, as I said during this episode, it remains a highly questionable business decision overall. Don't forget, this is the same company that eliminated the Wii stand (along with GCN compatibility) to cut hardware costs, so they're normally very conscious of this sort of thing, and I don't see how the benefits will ultimately outweigh the costs in this case.

Greg's got a very good memory with his reference to my being a Liverpool supporter, which I mentioned in a review almost a year ago. Though, with the season they've had (outside of Cup matches), I kind of wish he hadn't drawn attention to it.

There will be more Kid Icarus talk on RFN.

Greg's memory is much better than it has any right, or even need, to be.

roykoopa64March 27, 2012

Another great discussion, enjoyed listening to it! Great to hear from Guillaume again.

I haven't played Kid Icarus Uprising much yet, but so far it's been incredibly good.

The_Darkest_RedMarch 28, 2012

Quote from: Yoshidious

Quote from: The_Darkest_Red

Greg, I know you don't like the idea (and trust me, I didn't either) but you must try the stand with Kid Icarus.

I have played with the stand a bit since recording last week, and I continue to prefer simply resting the 3DS on my leg (I'm getting on with the controls quite well at this point, more on that next episode naturally).

Sounds good, I'm glad you were at least able to give it a shot. I've been playing the game quite a bit recently (13 hours or so) and I continue to be a firm supporter of the stand. It props the 3DS up to just the right level and makes playing the game feel much more comfortable to me. I'm surprised propping it on your leg works so well for you, I always have an issue angling the system back far enough when I try playing that way.

To each his own of course, and I would probably do well to avoid questioning the master of Sin & Punishment-esque games.

NWR_DrewMGAndy Goergen, AlmunusMarch 28, 2012

I found the discussion about handheld vs. console gaming really fascinating.  As a 32 year old new father, I've found my console gaming time to be drastically reduced in recent years.  Even before the kid came along, I just didn't feel like being a dick and telling my wife that her entertainment for the evening was watching me play Mass Effect.  For at least 2 years, I've had to squeeze my console gaming into windows of time when my wife was otherwise occupied or else we'd be catching up on whatever TV shows that we have to watch.

With that in mind, I have absolutely found myself spending more and more time gaming on handhelds.  I've put more money into 3DS games than any other system in recent memory because I'm getting better and better gaming experience than ever before on a handheld.  I love it. 

You can't live as a single dude in your 20s forever, and if you end up in a family situation later on in life where your wife and kids are perfectly content letting you seclude yourself away in a game room for hours on end, or hog the TV in the main family room with a video game, more power to you.  I don't want to put myself in a situation where family looks at my gaming habit as something that disrupts their life anymore than I absolutely have to.

In a similar way, having to share an apartment with two other guys as a college student has pushed me to mostly playing handheld games as well. Even though it's my TV, I feel like a dick if I hog it all the time to play stuff, so I'll play my 3DS while we all watch stuff on Netflix or whatever.

leahsdadMarch 28, 2012

Quote from: NWR_DrewMG

I found the discussion about handheld vs. console gaming really fascinating.  As a 32 year old new father, I've found my console gaming time to be drastically reduced in recent years.  Even before the kid came along, I just didn't feel like being a dick and telling my wife that her entertainment for the evening was watching me play Mass Effect.  For at least 2 years, I've had to squeeze my console gaming into windows of time when my wife was otherwise occupied or else we'd be catching up on whatever TV shows that we have to watch.

With that in mind, I have absolutely found myself spending more and more time gaming on handhelds.  I've put more money into 3DS games than any other system in recent memory because I'm getting better and better gaming experience than ever before on a handheld.  I love it. 

I don't want to put myself in a situation where family looks at my gaming habit as something that disrupts their life anymore than I absolutely have to.

Really well put.  I think Andy's experience is identical to and indicative of what it's like to be married, have kids, and being a gamer. 

I would probably not buy a Wii U, for exactly the reasons that Andy has said, if not for the fact that my oldest daughter is now 6, she loves games, we play Wii together all the time, and I expect that we will be playing a lot of Wii U together.  A lot of people knock Nintendo for moving towards local multiplayer and more "family" experiences, but the truth is that for people like us, it's these qualities that will keep us with Nintendo and away from the Xbox360/PS3....consoles which I've always been tempted to buy, but stopped after realizing I would never, ever find time to play them.

SundoulosMarch 29, 2012

I'm in the same boat as well.  I have two boys that are 4 and 1, respectively, and don't have much time for console gaming anymore.  In fact, I'm still working to play through Skyward Sword over the weekends or late at night.  Gone are the times when I could just spend hours on end with console games.  I still find time for certain games when I can, but making my way through a game much more protracted experience these days.  I imagine that the remainder of Skyward Sword as well as Xenoblade and the Last Story will keep me occupied through the rest of the year, console-wise.

I too play more handheld games because of the reasons that others have already mentioned.  I don't regret my 3DS purchase either, especially since many of the games coming out for it now are as good or almost as good as many of the games that were coming out during times when I could play games with reckless abandon.  I'm looking forward to several of the games coming out this year for the 3DS as well.

My oldest son is at the point where he's starting to get interested in some games, and I'm excited about that.  Currently, the only thing he wants to do is press the "gas button" in Mario Kart Wii...I think he feels too intimidated by the idea of playing it himself.  I do look forward to playing the Wii and Wii U with him in the future.  I have fond memories of playing games with my dad; we had endless hours of fun playing the original Mario Brothers, Super Mario, Zelda, etc. together. 

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