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Episode 269: Doin' It Like We Do

by James Jones, Greg Leahy, Jon Lindemann, and Jonathan Metts - December 4, 2011, 10:09 am PST
Total comments: 38

This week, RFN returns to the classic format... and it's super effective!

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This week's show starts with Great Big New Business. Greg got an early copy of Mario Kart 7 and has a lot to tell us before the American release (same day as this episode drops). James gets another chance to describe his Zelda experience, which launches us into a super-sized group discussion of the game now that all four of us have played quite a lot of it. Jonny was traveling most of the week, and that means he played a lot more Super Mario 3D Land. Jon wraps up this half of the show with a sneak peek at Star Wars: The Old Republic.

Then, we make an epic return to Listener Mail with your much-appreciated kudos and questions about a killer app for the Wii U launch, disappointment with Zelda's graphics, the effect of bug-testing on game prices, and smudges/scratches on the 3DS screen. We absolutely love getting your ideas and questions, so please keep sending them!

This was one of our most heated and fun episodes to record, so hopefully you'll enjoy it as much as we did!

This podcast was edited by Greg Leahy.

Music for this episode of Radio Free Nintendo is used with permission from Jason Ricci & New Blood. Hear more of Jason's music on Discover Music Project.

Additional music for this episode of Radio Free Nintendo is copyrighted to Nintendo, and is included under fair use protection.

Talkback

Killer_Man_JaroTom Malina, Associate Editor (Europe)December 04, 2011

I think my Legend of Zelda tastes are most aligned with Greg. I agree that the de-emphasis on exploration is a bit of dampener, but as a fan of the puzzles, I really, really enjoyed Skyward Sword. Each section was like playing an open, sprawling dungeon in order to access a smaller, tightly focused dungeon.

Anyway, I feel obligated to advocate Rayman Origins. I doubt it's on anybody's radar, but if you like beautiful 2D platformers that get challenging fast, put this on your Christmas list.

I don't allow advocating for Ubisoft properties.

millerballDecember 05, 2011


I think there's a very high possibility that Monolithsoft will have a big game ready for Wii U lauch. The last game they released, Xenoblade, came out in june 2010. If you look at their output in the years before that, the only year where they had no game releases was back in 2007. One might think that they have staff working on another licensed Namco project, but that seems unlikely now that Namco has finally sold their last 16% of the stock to Nintendo.


It seems like they're confident in HD development, and they're even talking about taking on Bethesda. A launch game from them could potentially turn some heads.

Killer_Man_JaroTom Malina, Associate Editor (Europe)December 05, 2011

Quote from: Crimm

I don't allow advocating for Ubisoft properties.

You suck. :P

Seriously, give it a try. It's really good.

No.


Not until I get to punch the person who ported Rayman 2 to the 3DS as many times as I want.




and I do mean "as many times as I want." Their safety has no role in the discussion.

leahsdadDecember 05, 2011

Okay, just finished listening to the episode, and have a few thoughts about the cases/screen scratching/hardware revision:

I've got a Hori clear case around my 3DS, and I think one of the advantages of it is that it feels better to hold it during long play sessions.  I've tried it both with and without the case (cuz sometimes I'm lazy and leave it off after charging) and my large 30-something hands feel discomfort without it.  So besides protection for the 3DS, the clear case might help player comfort.  It only adds a millimeter of thickness on each side (if that) but it seems to help me.

And when Johnny was going on about hardware revisions and nintendogs, I think he really hit it on the nose, because the day the next revision comes out and I buy it (which will be at launch), I'm getting a copy of plus cats, moving off all of my digital downloads to my new 3DS, and handing my original 3DS to my daughter.  She's starting to become less and less enchanted with her DS lite and her Ipod touch and is asking for my 3DS more and more.  Coincidentally, ever since I got Freaky Forms.

CericDecember 05, 2011

My Son wants mine for Skylanders. :/

I've got to weigh in on the Patch thing.

As a developer as well, I feel terrible if a bug goes out with my code that I didn't catch.
Patches are great for Consumers.  Patches that add new Features are great and justified.  All that being said the Mere existance of a patch that isn't to add new features is just shameful.  Its like needing your wife to drop you off some pants at work because you forgot to wear any.

KDR_11kDecember 05, 2011

Patches from indie developers are great because they do it to make the game better. Patches from big publishers aren't good because they're used as crutches to let them rush through the QA process. Big publishers don't want to pay for content patches, they'll only develop additional content in order to sell it as DLC.

ejamerDecember 05, 2011


Count me in with the camp who prefer to see games released as finished products (even if that means delays) instead works in progress. Patching games to fix unexpected issues isn't a bad thing, but the culture some companies have fostered of releasing software before the QA process has finished is shameful.

happyastoriaDecember 05, 2011

What to hear something funny? I bought Skyrim day one, and guess what? There's a bug preventing me from finishing the main quest. I've spent about 60 hours in the game, and I'm not doing the whole thing over again just to fix the bug!!!! Ugh, I want to finish the main quest, but I can't! This pisses me off! I'm with James on this one!

broodwarsDecember 05, 2011

Quote from: happyastoria

What to hear something funny? I bought Skyrim day one, and guess what? There's a bug preventing me from finishing the main quest. I've spent about 60 hours in the game, and I'm not doing the whole thing over again just to fix the bug!!!! Ugh, I want to finish the main quest, but I can't! This pisses me off! I'm with James on this one!

Out of curiosity, what was the bug? We've been having a rather lively discussion of just how completely broken Skyrim is in its own thread, and I don't recall seeing you list your bug there.

I don't think it's coincidental that Fallout: New Vegas and Skyrim are two of the most notoriously buggy releases out there, and they come from the same publisher (Zenimax).

Somebody really needs to re-examine their QA practices.

broodwarsDecember 05, 2011

Quote from: NWR_Lindy

I don't think it's coincidental that Fallout: New Vegas and Skyrim are two of the most notoriously buggy releases out there, and they come from the same publisher (Zenimax).

Somebody really needs to re-examine their QA practices.

The thing is, having worked in QA, I can tell you vaguely that if the public finds an issue, it's extremely likely that a QA tester found it as well and it was waived by Dev (either for being too risky to fix, or because Dev simply couldn't devote the time to it in favor of other things).  People throw the QA department under the bus when more than likely QA tried to fight to get these things fixed and Dev told them it wasn't going to happen.  Then (my personal belief, not anything I actually know) some money gets slipped to Sony and Microsoft, and suddenly their certification QA people don't see these issues either.  So these games with massive issues pass through certification so the consumers can deal with the fallout (pun intended) via patches.

It's worth noting that this game was released less than a year after it was announced, so I'm curious how tight a schedule was forced on the Devs to get this thing out by 11-11-11 for marketing purposes (to the detriment of the product's quality).

Quote from: NWR_Lindy

I don't think it's coincidental that Fallout: New Vegas and Skyrim are two of the most notoriously buggy releases out there, and they come from the same publisher (Zenimax).

Somebody really needs to re-examine their QA practices.

They're notorious for bugs, but let's be clear: this is a Bethesda problem. Zenimax also does id and I don't hear about their stuff being broken as hell.


Oh wait...Rage.


Shit

It's a Bethesda problem, but Zenimax (publisher) QA has the final say when it comes to submitting it for certification.

ChiramiiDecember 05, 2011

Wanna know who have made level creation fun? Nadeo with the Trackmania games, and that community is huge.

NinSageDecember 06, 2011

These days when I make RFN posts, I am trying to keep the talking points well under 10.  Let's see how we do...

1. Thank you, James for bringing up the obvious shooters if people wanna talk about recycling gameplay. Thank you Greg for pointing out that Kart shouldn't be hit for coming out every few years compared to games that are on a truly annual schedule.  Thank you, Jonny, for acknowledging that Nintendo gets an unbalanced number of gripes about it - and in all fairness... you're right, a heavier emphasis on story could really help Nintendo in that regard.  However, they tried that with Other M and (regardless of any one person's view of the game) the more vocal members of the gaming community (audience AND media) threw a straight up hissy fit.  So, sadly, I don't think Nintendo will be motivated to go that route for a long time.


2. I won't have Skyward Sword until after Christmas, but I've been playing Okami, and I'm glad to hear the items in SS don't take a long time to use!  Also been playing Phantom Hourglass, and I'm glad to hear the dungeons are not deep mazes!

Also, I think that if Skyward Sword lacks the feeling of a grand adventure then it will feel like a breath of fresh air!! Every flappin' game, movie, comic book has the hero saving the whole flappin' universe.  I think we've all become desensitized to it.  I think it will be more powerful, in this day and age, to have an adventure that feels more personal in scale.

3. The shiny "crutch" you mentioned? see: HD gaming. (human skin is not shiny like a snake's!!!!!!!!!)

4. I enjoy Nintendo's philosophies regarding DLC nickel/diming and bug patching.  In regard to those two issues, I hope they dig in their dragging feet, stick their head in the sand and their fingers in their ears yelling "la la la" and all the other metaphors they usually get slammed with.

That said, yea, if they can find a way to better facilitate bug-fixing without encouraging bad developer habits? I'd obviously be for that.  The problem isn't with the bug-fixing service, merely with people's temptation to abuse it.

On a related note, I would also rather a game get delayed and work out of the box than get it sooner and not be able to play it in 10 years.  I mean really, who needs games sooner with the backlogs we all tend to sit on??

Lastly, patching/upgrading/updating firmware (in this case, the 3DS) is apples to these oranges.  I'm with ya on this one, James. 

5. Greg - thank you for explaining the 3DS "scratch" complaint.  I have no idea how so many people could get confused on that.  I guess it just shows the power of suggestion since gaming media ran that story so early in the 3DS' life and with such fervor.

PlugabugzDecember 06, 2011

Patches themselves aren't the problem but the implementation of them by the backend systems is poor. I started playing Uncharted 2 and had to wait 40 minutes for it to update patches. I fell asleep waiting.

I then popped in Portal 2 and it wants to install the DLC, but the PS3 won't do this while i'm in-game. I've played it for about 3 hours, and it's done about 1% (of 1gb!) as a result. This should be a behind the scenes process that installs upon completion and requests a reboot of the game and ideally a mandatory save beforehand to keep any progress.

ejamerDecember 06, 2011

Hmm... A few additional thoughts about patches and bugs: Twilight Princess, Skyward Sword, Other M.  Three major games that all have potentially game-breaking bugs, with no way to patch or fix the issue.  Not having any way to fix these games is a real shame.


Not trying to compare Bethesda games (which consistently are accepted and praised for their scope despite being buggy messes) to Nintendo games (which tend to be much more focused and include few meaningful problems)... just agreeing that having a way to patch games is awesome, but having developers count on releasing regular patches for many months after release is a ridiculous business model for gamers to support.

Madden is the same game every year, but for the bigger fans, the roster update is enough to keep it fresh. I find that true with every real sports game.

Examples:
I'll totally get a FIFA game every now and then, but I don't care about the rosters, so I'll get an old one.
I routinely live in the past in the MLB, so I just keep playing MVP Baseball 2005.
I follow football religiously and need to get the most updated rosters for Madden.

KDR_11kDecember 06, 2011

Buggyness depends strongly on the policies of the developer. E.g. aircraft control systems get extremely tough quality testing because if they fail then people die.
Generally more complex logic has more potential for bugs (HD doesn't play into that much, I remember massively buggy games back on the original Pentiums). However it's also the way a developer handles coding and QA that influences it. E.g. by now I expect German-developed games to be extremely buggy and I suspect that's because of demoscene-levels of code quality (highly optimized, impossible to debug) that leads to pretty games and tons of bugs (notorious examples would be games like the X series, Crysis, the Rogue Squadron games on the GC (Factor 5 originally came from Germany), etc).

Minecraft is really damn buggy and that's not even close to AAA HD graphics.

Quote from: broodwars

Quote from: NWR_Lindy

I don't think it's coincidental that Fallout: New Vegas and Skyrim are two of the most notoriously buggy releases out there, and they come from the same publisher (Zenimax).

Somebody really needs to re-examine their QA practices.

The thing is, having worked in QA, I can tell you vaguely that if the public finds an issue, it's extremely likely that a QA tester found it as well and it was waived by Dev (either for being too risky to fix, or because Dev simply couldn't devote the time to it in favor of other things).

I'd count the handling of the found issues as a part of the QA process that the company has set up.

NinSageDecember 06, 2011

plugaboyz - Yep. That sucks.
ejamer - Just saying ... what percentage of folks do you think have experienced those game-breaking bugs? less than 10? less than 5?
Personally, I've apparently been very lucky with all my gaming (not just from Nintendo).  I can't even think of the last time I experienced a true bug/glitch.  I had Horizon Riders freeze up on my several times.  So much so that I couldn't get past the third level. I called Nintendo customer service and they said to re-download the game.  I did and I never had another issue.  Beat the game several times over after that.

Before HR, I think the next major issue I had was back in the PS1 days.  This only happened once or twice, and I can't even remember the game... but it was a third person action game and I remember I fell "through" the floor and got stuck in this trippy kind of limbo where I could move around but the environment looked like an infinite cycle of the backsides of the game textures..... ah, it's funny in hindsight.

Neal - When it comes to Madden, couldn't that be one of the few times when paid DLC makes sense? In other words, what if instead of selling you a full-priced game that is essentially a roster update, they sold $5 or $10 roster updates every year?  They could wait to release a full game until the technology or programming could allow them to make something truly new.

I think 5 or 10 bucks from every Madden fan would still make them a boatload of money if they didn't have to pay hardly any production costs.

KDR - As Jonny said, any game can have bugs.  Even small-budget games.  Again, the time when people are justified in being upset is when a company that has the resources chooses not to use them for silly reasons like: "eh, we can do it later, let's go have a beer" or "the foolish execs would rather it be out by Week X than work well" or whatever other lame scenario you can imagine.

NinSage - From a fan perspective, of course. However, it sells very well every year. EA would be dumb to do that.

Also, Silent Realm was one of my favorite parts of SS. I felt they really improved that type of gameplay (which I hated in earlier games) because they make you do them after you're already familiar with the locations. It was a really awesome type of fast-paced strategic exploration.

broodwarsDecember 06, 2011

It's funny that people are talking about Nintendo titles not having game-breaking bugs when allegedly Skyward Sword has one.  Considering I was thinking of visiting that character first in the storyline, I was close to hitting that bug myself.

ejamerDecember 06, 2011

Quote from: NinSage

ejamer - Just saying ... what percentage of folks do you think have experienced those game-breaking bugs? less than 10? less than 5?

The percentage is probably very small, but what is the "acceptable number" for bugs that are truly game-breaking?


I'm not really trying to be negative. Just pointing out that even great games have occasional bugs and issues that make it out into the real world. Allowing and supporting patches is a good thing. Relying on post-release development to clean up games that intentionally get released too early to take advantage of (for example) the holiday season isn't good at all.

Quote:

Neal - When it comes to Madden, couldn't that be one of the few times when paid DLC makes sense? In other words, what if instead of selling you a full-priced game that is essentially a roster update, they sold $5 or $10 roster updates every year?  They could wait to release a full game until the technology or programming could allow them to make something truly new.

I think 5 or 10 bucks from every Madden fan would still make them a boatload of money if they didn't have to pay hardly any production costs.

I also wish they would starting doing this, but Neal is right: there is simply too much money on the table for new releases.


Too bad they don't offer both: a new game that costs more but includes new features and improvements, and a roster update service that costs less but leaves players with older versions of the game. I suppose that would split the community though, and make new releases more risky in case reviews and online opinions ever suggest skipping the new release and just updating old versions.

Quote:

KDR - As Jonny said, any game can have bugs.  Even small-budget games.  Again, the time when people are justified in being upset is when a company that has the resources chooses not to use them for silly reasons like: "eh, we can do it later, let's go have a beer" or "the foolish execs would rather it be out by Week X than work well" or whatever other lame scenario you can imagine.

I suspect that the "foolish execs" scenario you mention happens very often. Game development is a business first and foremost, and striking a balance between cost and quality isn't always easy.

Retro DeckadesDecember 06, 2011

I'd like to address Mr. Metts' point about marketing the Wii U's ability to stream to the controller. As an adult who does yet not have children, I still find this functionality extremely inticing. I do not own a 3DS, nor do I plan on picking one up (reasons being how rarely I game on the go anymore and the backlog of DS games that would make James cry), yet I still do a significant amount of handheld gaming while at home. With the launch of the Wii U, I'll be able to play my games on the TV and around the house while only having to purchase one system. I am excite!

NinSageDecember 06, 2011

Neal - agreed.  and then we get in to industry morality/good will which is a whole other story!

ejamer - agreed. I am absolutely pro-patching, just anti-abusing. sounds like you are too =)

OneTwenty - agreed!! I luckily married a gamer girl but she also likes to watch her Grey's Anatomy while I sit on the couch grumbling and NOT playing Okami =P

Yes, I have a DSiXL and a PSP and my laptop but... sometimes you just wanna play that console game!

Mop it upDecember 06, 2011

Nintendo have fixed bugs before by releasing new versions at retail. For example, The Legend of Zelda Ocarina of Time had a bug where you could unequip the sword, which could be used for a whole host of other fun glitches. This and many other bugs present were removed in a later version of the game, in fact I think only the initial shipment has these bugs. Another famous example is Super Smash Brothers Melee, which has at least three different versions. Unfortunately, I bought the game at launch, so I'm stuck with my resetting high scores for certain characters, and can't get past the 4,500-some foot limit in the Home Run Contest.

Hopefully Nintendo will allow patching on the Wii U, but until then, Nintendo could offer replacement discs for those who bought the game near release. I know that later versions of Twilight Princess removed the cannon glitch, and maybe others, and I believe Metroid Other M's bug was fixed too. I imagine Skyward Sword will be seeing a new version soon as well. Since discs are so cheap to manufacture, this would cost them hardly anything to do. Unfortunately, I don't see it happening.

broodwarsDecember 06, 2011

My retort to the whole argument of there being a double-standard against Nintendo (for releasing the same game over and over again) is that Activision doesn't take 5 years to create the new Call of Duty and then release essentially the same game as its predecessor.  If Nintendo released a new Mario Kart or Zelda every year, maybe I could understand why they're all so similar.  However, when Nintendo allegedly spends 5 years creating a new Zelda title, that's 5 years of us building up excitement that Nintendo might finally do something substantially new with the series (especially when Nintendo tries to push that with interviews about how it's going to be so new and different).  Then the product releases and it's not that different.  Disappointment ensues, and it's the case with Nintendo's other franchises.

I don't see it as a double-standard.  I see expectations for Nintendo's titles being deservedly greater due to Nintendo's reputation and their excessively-long development times.  Plus, Nintendo's been creating essentially iterations on the same games for well over 20 years.  Call of Duty's been doing it for 7, assuming you don't think the first Modern Warfare changed things up enough.  And even then, as mentioned in the show that franchise has been trying to make strides in storytelling so it's not the same game at least in Single-Player.  But when the day comes that Call of Duty has been iterating as long as something like Zelda has been, you'll see the same complaints.  And, incidentally, Modern Warfare 3 has seen complaints about essentially being Modern Warfare 2.5, so it's not like it hasn't started already.

NinSageDecember 06, 2011

@broodwars

That is one way to look at things.  :)

ejamerDecember 07, 2011

Quote from: Mop

Nintendo have fixed bugs before by releasing new versions at retail. ...

Reminds me of early release versions of Maniac Mansion on the NES. That game saw quite a few changes and censored "fixes" - yet somehow they missed the microwavable hamster. Not really a bug... but quite funny to be able to roam the house as a ghost. Actually, a funny game no matter how you slice it.


Quite interested to see the unequipped sword bug in Ocarina of Time. Never heard about that before.
:)

roykoopa64December 07, 2011

Great episode! I don't have much to add, except I love Skyward Sword and found very little to be disappointed with, overall. The Silent Realm sections were pretty cool actually.

I agree with everything that was said about Skyward Sword. Thank you.

NWR_DrewMGAndy Goergen, AlmunusDecember 10, 2011

A little late to the party on this discussion, but regarding the scratches on the 3D screen due to the design flaw, I had this issue as well.  I finally called Nintendo up and they were more than happy to repair it under warranty.  On top of that, the repair comes with a year extension on the warranty from the date of repair, so now my 3DS warranty is good through next November.  Excellent.

I'll play devil's advocate here for a second and argue that the fact that Nintendo doesn't iterate Mario Kart annually could actually give more reason to be upset at the lack of changes. If Nintendo follows the pattern they've established, this is the only Mario Kart we're going to get on the 3DS, so any shortcomings with it won't be addressed until a new hardware platform, if at all. I'm not saying it's justifiable to have lower expectations for annualized franchises, but the fact is if they don't do what they should they can always fix it next year.

Also, I think the benefits of building in patching support far outweigh the drawbacks. The whole idea of publishers releasing broken games with the assumption of fixing them via patch isn't as widespread on the other consoles as a lot of Nintendo fans want to believe. Sure, tons of games get patches, but most of them play just fine without them. Not allowing for patches makes it harder for genuine mistakes to be fixed, but doesn't prevent problems from occurring in the first place.

YoshidiousGreg Leahy, Staff AlumnusDecember 11, 2011

Quote from: NWR_insanolord

I'll play devil's advocate here for a second and argue that the fact that Nintendo doesn't iterate Mario Kart annually could actually give more reason to be upset at the lack of changes. If Nintendo follows the pattern they've established, this is the only Mario Kart we're going to get on the 3DS, so any shortcomings with it won't be addressed until a new hardware platform, if at all. I'm not saying it's justifiable to have lower expectations for annualized franchises, but the fact is if they don't do what they should they can always fix it next year.

This was an important point that I wanted to mention during this episode with respect to Nintendo pumping out installments in their top selling franchises less frequently than some other publishers, but since I failed to do so I'm glad to see that JP and broodwars have raised it in this thread. As we discussed in the hype feature all the way back in Episode 120, expectations going into a game can play a powerful role in how much one enjoys it, and as we've seen with Skyward Sword recently, the number of years between titles can seem by itself to shape those expectations to a significant degree.

Ax23000December 12, 2011

Really quick thought on Bethesda games being a 'mess'.  I think that my experience has never really found this to be the case.  Yes, there are ALWAYS bugs.  I don't believe it's possible to create a game with the scope of Skyrim that doesn't have bugs.  I suspect you could test the game for all eternity and still have problems.  But saying the game is a 'buggy mess' implies that as you play all you do is see bugs everywhere.  By and far this is not the case.  Skyrim, and Bethesda games in general, are a prime example of the sum being greater than its parts.  I've played the game for close to 30 hours and so far seen only one minor bug where a dragon got stuck.  What I have seen, constantly, as I've played have been fantastic vistas, characters going about their lives, wildlife living in the snowy wastes, stars wheeling in the sky, snow blowing on the wind, etc.  In other words, what I've mostly experienced with this game is the wonder and joy of being dropped into an amazingly well realized world.

Quote from: broodwars

However, when Nintendo allegedly spends 5 years creating a new Zelda title, that's 5 years of us building up excitement that Nintendo might finally do something substantially new with the series (especially when Nintendo tries to push that with interviews about how it's going to be so new and different). 

There are TONS of things about Skyward Sword that are different from how things have operated since Ocarina of Time first came out.

To start with, I think people are really underselling the amount of time and energy that must have gone into making motion controls work on the scale of this game.  They make it feel effortless and natural, but there's a reason we've yet to see any other game with motion controls as brilliant as those in Skyward Sword.  Even with the basic building blocks in place from Resort, there are a lot of issues that game didn't have to deal with due to the very controlled enviroment that each of those minigames takes place in.

In terms of world design, Skyward Sword is a HUGE departure from the model laid out by OoT.  The way each area is closed off from one another for example.  And the way each of those areas is laid out in a maze-like configuration with lots of little puzzles to solve.  Come on.  It seems absurd to not give the developers credit for making this change.  We can argue whether it was a good idea or bad one, but there can be no doubt in my mind that it was substantial.

Yes, the game still features dungeons and yes you gather items in those dungeons, but there are times where the lead up to the dungeon is incredibly unique and interesting.  There's one section of the game in particular that strikes me as I think about this, but I don't want to spoil it.  All I'll say is that it involves a boat and a time shift stone.

This game also features a number of quests that don't ask you to enter a dungeon at all.  Instead the developers found a number of ways to set all of the action for these quests in each of the areas of the over world.  There's one quest near the very end of the game where they radically alter the entire area using water.  In another part of that same quest they turn the entire area into a sort of dungeon and restrict access to your items, forcing you to rethink how you'd normally approach the challenges.

There are also boss battles that don't take place in a dungeon.

I haven't even touched on other things I noticed, for example the way the developers really worked to create a connection with the characters in a way I can't recall from any past Zelda games.  The story in general is very well done and suprisingly emotional at points.

These are significant changes that really change the feel of the game IMO.  I suppose you could complain that the game still utilizes a structure that asks you to collect things at every turn.  I'm not going to argue that there aren't plenty of things about this game that feel like Zelda, but at a certain point that should be the case.  Otherwise why call it Zelda at all?  I think, for me, the balance between new and old elements is just about perfect in Skyward Sword.

leahsdadDecember 14, 2011

Quote from: NWR_DrewMG

A little late to the party on this discussion, but regarding the scratches on the 3D screen due to the design flaw, I had this issue as well.  I finally called Nintendo up and they were more than happy to repair it under warranty.  On top of that, the repair comes with a year extension on the warranty from the date of repair, so now my 3DS warranty is good through next November.  Excellent.

Yeah, Nintendo is awesome that way.  I dropped my XL a while back and busted the shoulder button, and while I never told them that the reason why the shoulder button was broken, they fixed it, no questions asked, and I had it back in 2 weeks, free shipping to and back. 

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