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Episode 247: You Can Lead a Man to the Beam, But...

by James Jones, Greg Leahy, Jon Lindemann, and Jonathan Metts - June 19, 2011, 1:51 pm PDT
Total comments: 60

We reunite to review E3, answer tons of emails, and share dirty jokes.

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It's so good to be back! We've got the complete quartet ready for your listening pleasure. Jon and Greg have been keeping fairly busy these past two weeks while James and Jonny were goofing off at E3. To get everyone caught up, we recorded this lengthy, three-segment episode just for you! It kicks off with a recap of E3 itself, including our overall evaluations of Nintendo's performance and the future of both 3DS and Wii U. We also get a perspective of the show from the home-bound (and frankly, better) half of RFN.

In the middle, we turn in a typical but meaty New Business with two weeks' worth of games, including our first entries from the 3DS eShop. Jon's infamous Chrono Train rolls into the station, and he ponders the meaning of his own existence following the completion of this life-long gaming goal. Greg reports on X-Scape, the weird DSiWare game about 3D space tanks that is now available through the 3DS eShop; he also plays Link's Awakening for the first time and drops premature impressions on Ocarina of Time 3D! James eschews new-fangled systems to visit Lunar Knights on (2)DS, the spiritual successor to Boktai from Kojima Productions. Jonny ends with a very brief jaunt through Super Mario Land, the delirious AlphaBounce (more DSiWare -- is this a new record?). He also searches for the Japanese word for "bro" to describe Platinum's third-person shooter, Vanquish.

Hey! You guys and gals wrote a boatload of questions about E3, Wii U, 3DS, Skyward Sword, and more Wii U, so we answered as many as we could in a rousing edition of Listener Mail! Gird your loins for this massive dose of RFN-derived opiates because we want to make you see fantastical visions and then fall asleep. You'll need that energy for next week, when we finally complete the Perfect Dark edition of RetroActive! The forum thread is still going strong, and you have one last chance to post your comments for a chance to be read on the show! See you next week. PEACE.

This podcast was edited by Greg Leahy.

Music for this episode of Radio Free Nintendo is used with permission from Jason Ricci & New Blood. You can purchase their newest album, Done with the Devil, directly from the record label, Amazon (CD) (MP3), or iTunes, or call your local record store and ask for it!

Additional music for this episode of Radio Free Nintendo is copyrighted to Nintendo and Square Enix, and is included under fair use protection.

Talkback

What kind of beam was it?

The most amusing aspect of this recording for me was the fact that my internet dropped for a good three minutes, causing me to have to completely drop and re-join the call, and nobody even noticed.

I'm always saying you should talk more, and that just proves it!

ShyGuyJune 20, 2011

Lindy needs to drop more old school rap references throughout the podcast.

I wish I was a little bit taller, I wish I was a baller...

Retro DeckadesJune 20, 2011

Quote from: Crimm

What kind of beam was it?

MAN!

FZeroBoyoJune 20, 2011

Have yet to listen, as I save the podcasts for work...


But I think Lindy deserves a round of applause for finally beating Chrono Trigger.  :P:

KDR_11kJune 20, 2011

The powerup avalanche in Alpha Bounce is reduced as you move further from the starting point. On Hard you won't even find avalanches near the start.

So Vanquish is easy on Easy? It's fucking hard on Hard. I'm stuck at a battle with two Russian power armors. Just gets too fucking hard there.

NinSageJune 20, 2011

Great job again this week, guys!

Risposte ...

1. I wouldn't even care if Nintendo's Wii U sizzle reel had Sony/MS watermarks on the video.  The idea was to see what games will be coming to the platform, not to conduct pixel-by-pixel comparisons.

2. I'm thinking $300 for the new console.  No way are they gonna launch a new console at the same price as their newest handheld.  mmmmmaaaaybe $350 if the production cost is high?

3. The Wii U is a bad name.  Does anyone with insight on the matter think there is ANY chance they could change it before launch? 10%? 5%?? 1%??? Please??
Otherwise, just gotta move on ...

4. I love Greg's football references.

5. Jonny, that's a brilliant theory to confirm backwards compatibility streamed to the new controller.  But let's not forget, "Wii U" games could use the wiimotes as their primary input if they developer so chooses.  So, even streaming a "Wii U" game to that controller might require the sensor bar, right?

6. SM3DS looks great to me.  To be fair, the Tanooki/racoon suits are so dear to my heart that it would probably look good even if Mario put one on and just took a nap for 4 hours.  Regardless, "sidescrolling with depth" (as DKCR, or... other games, have shown) does sound like an EVEN MORE appealing route for that game.  It actually makes me a bit down on the game now because no matter how good it is I'll be wishing they had taken that approach instead!

7.  I, too, beat Chrono Trigger for the first time about a week or so ago.  Lindy is absolutely right! The game is entirely "back heavy"!! This explains why over the years I had started that game about 5 times but never found the motivation to continue it!  This, time, largely because of Lindy and RFN, I decided to push through no matter what.  I'm glad I did.  As I progressed in the game I found that the narrative threads started to weave together in a meaningful way and my initial criticisms that this was just a bunch of cool ideas in a blender dissipated.  Ayla "FTW"!! (as the kids say).

8. I had no idea until Friday how much of a visual overhaul OoT3D is.  I pay dang close attention to gaming news but the sum of the gaming media I've read was "well, it's great cuz it's OoT, but still just another lazy Nintendo rehash." 

N64 young Link = dork.  3DS young Link = hero of time.  This game is officially on my "to buy" list.

9. I owned a GameBoy before an NES.  Man, as a kid I remember beating Super Mario Land but I don't remember it being as quick as you guys describe!! Maybe my perceptions as a child were skewed.  I can see my GameBoy from where I'm sitting.  Maybe I should give it another go!!

10. I like (nearly) all the Megaman platformers (not X7) but it's great to hear someone voice any kind of respect for MM6!! Seems that on the rare occasions it comes up people just start chuckling and are like "man, Capcom sure was out of ideas by then!"

Where as I still maintain that "Guts Man" is a stretch, and that was game ONE.

11. Vanquish looks like one of the coolest shooters.  I give the shooter genre a lot of flak for, quite honestly, just looking like the same rehashed tripe over and over.  But Vanquish, perhaps because of its Japanese influence, looks unique, stylish, creative and focused much more on fun gameplay than virtual dick-wagging.  The knee-sliding bit looks a little ... dumb ... but at least it's trying!

12. I love hearing Jonny talk when he's got something he's enthusiastic about (streetpass in this case). That sort of spirit is what's so absent in the jaded majority of game discussion.  I know it can't (and shouldn't) be forced, but never lose it.

13. I have only played the circle pads for a few minutes while demoing the 3DS.  But my reaction is that it's my favorite stick of all time.  Admittedly, I don't think there was a PS2 game where I ever had to get so profecient with dual-analogs that I was ruined for any other kind of stick or control method.  But man, the circle pad just feels like I have so much better ....... control.

14.  Hey! I'M NinSage! Thanks for reading my letter, fellas.

After finishing Monster Tale I was SO pleased with the gameplay and the setting and the concepts BUT... there were some glaring flaws.

It was too short, and the backtracking only padded the length with lameness.  The evolution system begs for a new game+ since I beat the game having only unlocked about 40% of the evolutions and very few were entirely leveled up.

I'd still love to see the franchise continue (and improve) though.  As you mentioned, WiiUWare (good god, there are tongue twister's easier than that) might be the perfect place for it.  Make it happen, DreamRift!

15. "Chris" brings up a great point about the HD/3D double standards.  People shouldn't have expected the 3DS to produce holograms.  It's just a visual depth illusion to "look cool."

My take on the double standard is that many folks (gamers/game media) used to say Wii games were UNPLAYABLE because they weren't in HD.  Where as no one (including Nintendo) is saying that the 3DS makes 2D games UNPLAYABLE.

Also, let's not forget that with the 3DS, Nintendo got the hype train rolling; but, it was the first few hundred people who tried the system that sent the hype train barreling off its tracks.

~~~

Wow.  15 points of discussion? Even I think that's too many.


Wii's lack of HD output came at a very bad time, because a huge part of the population (especially active gamers and other tech-savvy consumers) started buying HDTVs around 2006-2007. Wii graphics don't translate well to many HDTVs, especially if you're using the composite cables that come with the system. Remember that Nintendo never even sold their official component cables in stores. Obviously terms like "unplayable" are exaggerations, but the comparison to Xbox 360 and PS3 was much more unfavorable than it would have been even one year earlier, when most people would have been playing any system on an SDTV.


None of this applies to 3DS, but there is a stigma about 3D displays due to bad experiences in theaters and with overpriced TVs. Also, keep in mind that the individual variance of someone's ability to see and appreciate 3D is higher than that of HD, because it is based on more factors. Some are easy to fix, like position or the slider. Some are hard to fix, like bad vision or motion sickness (which could be linked).

NinSageJune 20, 2011

Quote from: Jonnyboy117

Wii's lack of HD output came at a very bad time, because a huge part of the population (especially active gamers and other tech-savvy consumers) started buying HDTVs around 2006-2007. Wii graphics don't translate well to many HDTVs, especially if you're using the composite cables that come with the system. Remember that Nintendo never even sold their official component cables in stores. Obviously terms like "unplayable" are exaggerations, but the comparison to Xbox 360 and PS3 was much more unfavorable than it would have been even one year earlier, when most people would have been playing any system on an SDTV.


None of this applies to 3DS, but there is a stigma about 3D displays due to bad experiences in theaters and with overpriced TVs. Also, keep in mind that the individual variance of someone's ability to see and appreciate 3D is higher than that of HD, because it is based on more factors. Some are easy to fix, like position or the slider. Some are hard to fix, like bad vision or motion sickness (which could be linked).

I agree 100% with this post.

I, too, noticed a drop off in clarity when I got my HDTV in late 2008.  I went out and bought the component cables because we got the HDMI cable for free and I thought I could justify it.  It didn't make much difference.  But it's ok, because I was already able to find beauty in Wii graphics, Gamecube graphics, PS2 graphics, PSX graphics, ... NES graphics, Gameboy graphics.

Atari graphics? I guess that's where I draw the line. =)

I also have had very bad experiences with 3D in theaters.  I can't stand how the glasses make the image darker.  On 3DTVs it seems the glasses AND the display make the image darker?  I know you guys were saying something about that this week during the podcast.

Plus, as someone who already wears corrective glasses, 3D glasses are a real comfort issue, and make it even harder to use them for optimal effect.

PS - I tried to play Xexyz with a friend last week since I own it but never beat it.  We bopped around for a few minutes and then he felt it was too bat-sh*t crazy to continue.  Someday I'll play it.

I was going through our shelf of games and discovered that my wife has Perfect Dark on N64.  I mentioned to her that I found it and she was like "let's play right now!"  Maybe we'll see if we can get anywhere before your retroactivity ends.

I also think that the lukewarm reception of 3D on consoles has poisoned the waters for the 3DS to a degree. I 'm sure there are people out there saying, "3D is unimpressive on a large TV, so why should I bother with it on a handheld?"

yoshi1001June 20, 2011

Jonny, it's interesting that you mentioned the Green Lantern trailer. I didn't think the 3D in that video was as good as Nintendo's E3 videos, probably because Nintendo had more familiarity with the 3DS (the movie trailer was probably just converted from the theater version).

broodwarsJune 20, 2011

I think the 3DS is still waiting for its "James Cameron's Avatar": the game that shows that the much-hyped 3D display is actually worth the $250 price tag.  My view on 3D right now is simple: I despise it, outside of specific venues such as theme park attractions (Muppetvision 3D, for example) designed to complement and enhance it.  I think it's a cheap gimmick that the entertainment industry has tried and failed to make people care about since the 50s, and it hasn't gotten any better now (in fact, the 3DS's 3D gives me headaches, so it may have gotten worse).  At least I can take some pleasure in seeing that the public's acceptance of 3D movies has rapidly declined over the past few years, so maybe it'll die again for a while.  That you can experience this gimmick without glasses doesn't make me care any more unless there's a legitimate gameplay component to it: the way you play the game changes because of how you view the image.  So far, we haven't gotten that with the 3DS, and since Nintendo has thoroughly bragged about the 3D display and its potential for game design evolution, I think the handheld's getting the criticism it deserves.

And incidentally, it's not a double-standard to mock the 3DS for not doing anything useful with its 3rd dimension while simultaneously praising the visual fidelity of HD.  One was praised as a revolutionary new way to play games, while the other was praised as an awe-inspiring new level of clarity, color, and fidelity to your games.  The latter delivered on what it promised, and we're still waiting on the former.  It's also worth noting that the trade-off for this so-called "revolutionary way of playing games" in the 3rd dimension is a significant drop-off in the device's performance due to needing to render each frame twice.  That's a fact about how we render 3D images that will never change, no matter the hardware (which is why I don't see the point in supporting 3D on PS3 either).  HD games render at the same performance level on any TV supporting the appropriate resolution you can find.

MM6 gets a lot of hate because it's so gimmicky. Capcom hadn't run out of ideas, it's just that they piled so many unusual ideas into their last NES Mega Man game. It's not a bad game by any means, it just doesn't feel anything like the other Mega Man games. But I certainly hope it hits the VC so that people can play them all with normal controls (unlike the reversed Collection controls).

I'd also like to bring up the point that I was a bit disappointed in the boobage in Dead or Alive: Dimensions. I expected a level of camp on par with DoA2: Hardcore, but I got something more akin to DoA4, which is positively conservative by comparison. Well, at least you can shake the 3DS and get some jiggle going in the photography mode.

The above statement is entirely true.

NinSageJune 20, 2011

@ broodwars

This should be your avatar: http://i1180.photobucket.com/albums/x408/Supaphatbass/muppets_old_men.jpg

@ Halbred

How is MM6 gimmicky? Are you saying it's cool when a robot dog transforms into a submarine or a hoverboard but gimmicky when it's a suit of armor?

Quote from: Halbred

... it just doesn't feel anything like the other Mega Man games.

*head explodes*

Please tell us how the difference in "feel" between MM1 and MM2 is less drastic than 6 and every other game in the series.

broodwarsJune 20, 2011

Quote from: NinSage

@ broodwars

This should be your avatar: http://i1180.photobucket.com/albums/x408/Supaphatbass/muppets_old_men.jpg

I see.  Well, if we're going to find it ok to make gross generalizations, this avatar should be yours then: http://www.blogcdn.com/www.joystiq.com/media/2006/07/fanboy.jpg

(Yeah, I tried to find a Muppets one to match yours, but to be honest I have trouble finding a Muppet that fits. Maybe Rowlf or Gonzo?  And incidentally, Waldorf and Statler were actually my favorite characters in the Muppet Show.  ;) )

NinSageJune 20, 2011

@ broodwars

Oh noes!! I enjoy games much more than I complain about them!  I must be one of those awful "fanboys"!


broodwarsJune 20, 2011

Quote from: NinSage

@ broodwars

Oh noes!! I enjoy games much more than I complain about them!  I must be one of those awful "fanboys"!

Dude, I'm not going to get into this argument with you (especially since, if you actually read my post, you'd have noticed I marked it and your post as "gross generalizations" with a smirk that you actually picked 2 of my favorite Muppets in your satire).  It's just not worth my time and energy to argue about our respective tastes in gaming, especially since I feel no need to defend my own.

KDR_11kJune 21, 2011

Meh, 3D adds nothing to games, I don't get any headaches or other problems from it but it's not a benefit either.

ShyGuyJune 21, 2011

Thanks for answering my analog control question. Jonny sounds like he doesn't like the "slide pads" but the way he describes it how he holds the sticks is weird.

James has a more wait and see approach and it didn't seem to bother him.

I think I will be able to deal with the Wii U controls since I like the 3DS analog pad, even though I didn't like the PSP nub.

Killer_Man_JaroTom Malina, Associate Editor (Europe)June 21, 2011

Seems like as good a time as any to ask. With few exceptions, I don't particularly like JRPGs. Should I bother trying Chrono Trigger? It's so revered that it's tempting. From the sounds of things, though, it doesn't align with my tastes at all. Yeah, the investment wouldn't be much when it's now out on Virtual Console, but Jon's comments about the slow start have me worried that I'd give up with it quickly.

broodwarsJune 21, 2011

Quote from: Killer_Man_Jaro

Seems like as good a time as any to ask. With few exceptions, I don't particularly like JRPGs. Should I bother trying Chrono Trigger? It's so revered that it's tempting. From the sounds of things, though, it doesn't align with my tastes at all. Yeah, the investment wouldn't be much when it's now out on Virtual Console, but Jon's comments about the slow start have me worried that I'd give up with it quickly.

I think Jon's exaggerating Chrono Trigger's "slow start", personally.  It's about 5 minutes long, unless you literally spend 10 hours at the opening Millennial Fair like he did.  As soon as time travel is introduced into the story, the game takes off and never looks back.  I've heard a lot of people say they like Chrono Trigger despite not being into RPGs, so it may very well appeal to you.  Give it a try.  At worst, you payed $8 for one of the best games of all time (my personal favorite) and didn't like it.

NinSageJune 21, 2011

@ Killer_Man_Jaro / broodwars

I don't think the slow start Lindy and I (above) refer to is simply the fair at the beginning of the game.

For me, even after acquiring all the cast members in the various time periods, I still felt the game lacked narrative threads that would tie these events together.  It wasn't until I got to about the half-way point and some side quests got done that I found they started fleshing out the characters' backstories and illustrated how they all relate to each other.

At THAT point, I was glad I was playing the game.

You know, less than two hours into the game, there is a cut-scene that literally depicts how characters are related to each other across the gulf of time. I think some people here are holding Chrono Trigger up to some unreasonable standard for character development. Tell me something about Rosa from FFIV, beyond her love for Cecil. Go on, I'll wait here.

She became a white mage because her mother was one, and part of her affections of Cecil come from the fact that he is a Dark Knight, like the one that her mother fought with. A Dark Knight that went on to become her father.

As you would say "ba'dow!"

I don't remember any of that from the original English translation...

NinSageJune 21, 2011

@ Jonny

You don't have to defend anything, my man.  The standards are as high as they are because so many people love and respect the game, and voice those opinions all the time.

Us folks who didn't experience it at the right time or heard too many "greatest ever" quotes are in the vast minority.

Plus, if it makes you feel better, one could easily interpret my critiques as someone who needs things spelled out for them.  In other words, CT might just expect a little more of its audience, and give a little more in return.  Some of the best works of fiction operate that way.

Games like FF4 might not be any DEEPER, as you question, but I would argue that they more quickly establish what they have to offer.  Making them more "accessible" by us unwashed masses. =P

BeautifulShyJune 21, 2011

To put things another way about Chrono Triggers story and character development another way.
Some gamers need to have all the details about the character and their motivations to really get into the story while others like myself just need the bare minimum. Basically like a frame for the house while those that need more story and details will need the whole house.

broodwarsJune 21, 2011

Quote from: NinSage

Games like FF4 might not be any DEEPER, as you question, but I would argue that they more quickly establish what they have to offer.  Making them more "accessible" by us unwashed masses. =P

See, I would argue that between the two games, Final Fantasy IV is by far the slower one.  Chrono Trigger has you racing through the story setup and out to do heroic stuff in 5 minutes.  Aside from maybe the final confrontation with Lavos or the Black Omen, if you have to grind in Chrono Trigger, you're probably "doing it wrong" as the saying goes.  Final Fantasy IV takes probably a half hour just to get you out the door, and then it demands that you run around in circles for another good half hour just to grind up enough XP to survive the battles in your first dungeon.

Games for me are about the journey.  So long as motivations and characterizations are established along the way in an organic manner, that's fine with me.  Let me get to the action, the "fun" of the game.  Too many games like to front-load their experiences with extensive cutscenes and backstory that I frankly don't give a crap about in the first few hours of my games and delay getting to the actual "game" part.

CericJune 22, 2011

I haven't played Chrono Trigger yet, I need to beat the last boss in FFIV first :P.  I  have played almost all the way through FFIV, I need to grind some and find the adamantite.  What I can say about FFIV is that the game is paced really well.  It doesn't have you running around like a Dr.Who episode but it has a place its getting and it drives you there.  The story is interesting enough and changes things up when it starts to get stale.  I never felt that my characters where ever Gods like in other RPGs when you get to high levels.  In fact towards the end I argue the Random mobs can be harder then those last bosses, I'm looking at you face thing.  Though what I liked most is that all the characters, besides the summoner, where a hero really already.  Same reason I like Hellboy.  Its established that these character have experience and are not N00bs.  Frankly I'm really tired of the "Zero to Hero" RPG.

NinSageJune 22, 2011

@ Ceric

I don't easily get tired of too much in gaming, but I agree with you that I would PREFER we see less "zero to hero" stuff just in gaming in general.

I think developers assume the audience won't be able to relate to someone powerful unless they experienced that ascension themselves.

For the same reason, I'm really ready for the silent protagonist to disappear.  I forget what video I saw this in, but the guy said "it's an RPG, just tell the damn story!"

I loved when Samus was given voice in Other M; even though doing means taking a risk people might not like.

I would love to see Link given a voice (no, you don't need to post about the CDi games or the cartoon... we're well aware and I'm pretty sure Nintendo wouldn't go that route).

I mean, which situation is more relatable and/or immersive?

Silent Pro:
Farmer: "Will you help me catch chickens or plant seeds?"
Pro: "..." *nods head*
Farmer: "You'll help me catch chickens? That's great!"

Voiced Pro:
Farmer: "Will you help me catch chickens or plant seeds?"
Pro: "Let's catch some chickens."
Farmer: "Sounds great!"

... I know right now the dominant thought is "voiced protagonists are blasphemous!" But... I'm giving it time.

CericJune 22, 2011

I'm playing Spirit Tracks right now and the dialog goes:

Zelda: You are going to help me?
Link: Yes.  OR Excuuuuusssseeee Mmeeeee Princess.

You get a choice of dialog.  I don't really like when they give the protagonist a voice but, I do not mind when they allow him to talk through dialog choices.  Invariably when they give the character a voice its different then what I give to them.  This goes for RPGs only really.  Try Siphon games.  Now if I'm playing a Spider-man game then I very well expect Spidey to by quipping the whole time.

NinSageJune 22, 2011

Admittedly, I've yet to play the DS Zelda games.  Good to see they have a sense of humor.

Choice of dialog? Yea, that's definitely a step in the right direction.

CericJune 22, 2011

That was a paraphrase example but, yeah their always seems to be a chose that's a little silly initially.

motangJune 22, 2011

It saddens me that NOA has not said a word about Xenoblades or Last Story. I don't know what they are waiting for, we have nothing really for the Wii this year.  :@

broodwarsJune 22, 2011

Quote from: motang

It saddens me that NOA has not said a word about Xenoblades or Last Story. I don't know what they are waiting for, we have nothing really for the Wii this year.  :@

My guess based on Nintendo's recent history is that NoA is watching how the games sell in Europe.  They're already going to be translated into English, and possibly French and Spanish so the localization work is already pretty much done.  At that point, it'll be just a matter of if NoA thinks it can get 100,000 Wii owners to buy the games.  Sadly, I think these games are going to under-perform when NoE releases them.  Both games are too late to catch their respective audiences.  I hope I'm wrong, and that NoA decides to get a clue and bring these over here.  But I think these two are going to meet the same fate Disaster, After Code, and so many other games have.  Maybe we'll get lucky and see them next generation in some form of upscaled port.

ShyGuyJune 22, 2011

I look forward to Xenoblade and the Last Story on the Wii U 3D virtual machine in 2018.

Again, it's really not hard at all to set up the Homebrew Channel to play import games.

Just to clarify a point, I know of no plans by any division of Nintendo (NCL excluded) to publish The Last Story. As far as we know it is not currently being translated. Anyone who says otherwise had best produce evidence of their claim.

NinSageJune 23, 2011

Fellas, I really think it's too early to for all this pessimism regarding Xenoblade and TLS.  Heck, it was too early when people started writing these games off 5+ months ago!

Xenoblade hit Japan a year ago and was only recently announced for Europe.
TLS just hit Japan in January.

For further reference, Prof. Layton and The Last Specter was released in Japan in 2009.  Now, I admit, having heard nothing since then, I was starting to get a little worried.  After all, the Layton franchise isn't some JRPG, it's a pretty popular franchise!

But, lo and behold, the game got announced (quietly, off stage) at E3'11.

Off the top of my head, the only Wii games Westerners might enjoy that never came our way are Zengeki No Rienaisdasdak, Another Code R (or Trace Memory), and Disaster: Day of Crisis.  And the latter two made it to EU.  It's late so I'm sure I've forgotten one or two ... please feel free to list them.

So, all I'm saying is... I won't be surprised if these games get localized, and I certainly won't spend my time b*tching about it until I know for sure.

The crazy thing is that The Last Story seems like it was specifically designed to appeal to Western markets.

NeoStar9XJune 23, 2011

Quote from: NWR_insanolord

Again, it's really not hard at all to set up the Homebrew Channel to play import games.

Just that it even has to get to this point with a IP that has in the past been successful in NA is crazy. I've said on another forum and maybe this one that I don't really believe Nintendo when it comes to their claim or even suggestions they want to win back/pay more attention to the "core gamer" or at least stop the ones they do have from leaving even more or at least putting more focus on other systems.  The handling of Xenoblade and The Last Story in NA, two games that are western in their design, have given me a significant amount of pause when it comes to the Wii U. Those are two games that exist now. Is it to be believed they will suddenly change their ways with the Wii U while continuing as usual now!? They have a chance now to show that they are changing yet don't seem to be taking it.

The NoE announcement was a huge surprise I felt. Yet it seems to be happening. However no announcement out of NoA regarding Xenoblade drives me crazy since if they do plan to release it there is no point to drag out an announcement. It's already being translated into English. Why not just take the British translation and the Spanish (Spain) translations and release it NA. After the PAL to NTSC conversion it would seem like no extra money would need to be spent by NoA other then printing of the disc and getting them into stores or hell just sell it online at Nintendo.com if they are that afraid of losing money. All the hard work and money spent seems to be covered by NoE already.

NinSageJune 23, 2011

Quote from: NWR_insanolord

The crazy thing is that The Last Story seems like it was specifically designed to appeal to Western markets.

Quote from: NeoStar9X

...The handling of Xenoblade and The Last Story in NA, two games that are western in their design...

Can you folks please explain how two JRPGs, steeped in Japanese style (see examples below) are in line with your comments?

TLS:
http://www.nosplay.com/imagenes/juegos/big/the-last-story-img321250.jpg
http://www.nintendo.co.jp/wii/slsj/character/load_img/9_img_big.png

Xenoblade:
http://ultimapartida.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/SX4_C_Syuruku_W_RGB_ad-Kopie.jpg
http://blogimg.goo.ne.jp/user_image/7d/10/98291af2b05faf4f49dfa4b332853dfe.jpg

Western RPGs:
http://spawnkill.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/Mass-Effect-2.jpg
http://hd-games-wallpapers.info/img/1304511919-fallout3_wallpaper0021.jpg
http://img.wallpaperstock.net:81/baldurs-gate-2-wallpapers_18212_1600x1200.jpg
http://www.totalfreewallpaper.co.cc/category/games/wallpapers/games-14/99212_wallpaper_neverwinter_nights_01_1024.jpg
http://thegamingliberty.com/wp-content/uploads/dxhr_still3.jpg
http://images.holyfragger.com/images/wallpaper/423_1295.jpg

Out of all those popular Western RPGs (source), Fable is the only one that is aesthetically in line with the JRPGs in question. Sooooo ... please explain your reasoning.

Quote from: NeoStar9X

The NoE announcement was a huge surprise I felt. Yet it seems to be happening.

It's a Christmas Miraculum!

Or... just games getting released as they are oft to do.

~

Still waiting on this laundry list of games we've missed out on.

broodwarsJune 23, 2011

Quote from: NinSage

Can you folks please explain how two JRPGs, steeped in Japanese style (see examples below) are in line with your comments.

It's not a question of artistic style but of design and intended audience.  When it was in development, the developers of The Last Story stated that they were designing the game to appeal to a more worldwide audience with specific elements of western game design (such as cover-based shooting).  As for Xenoblade, the game takes place in a huge world the player is encouraged to explore at their leisure.  In most JRPGs I've played (and I've played a lot), the player is funneled down a carefully scripted series of encounters and locations in order to tell a story.  There's a much less emphasis on freedom of choice and movement than in Western RPGs like Mass Effect or Fallout.

CericJune 23, 2011

Quote from: broodwars

Quote from: NinSage

Can you folks please explain how two JRPGs, steeped in Japanese style (see examples below) are in line with your comments.

It's not a question of artistic style but of design and intended audience.  When it was in development, the developers of The Last Story stated that they were designing the game to appeal to a more worldwide audience with specific elements of western game design (such as cover-based shooting).  As for Xenoblade, the game takes place in a huge world the player is encouraged to explore at their leisure.  In most JRPGs I've played (and I've played a lot), the player is funneled down a carefully scripted series of encounters and locations in order to tell a story.  There's a much less emphasis on freedom of choice and movement than in Western RPGs like Mass Effect or Fallout.

Though I will argue that is a more modern JRPG undertaking.  Ironically Western RPGs use to be more into guiding you through a story and JRPG where very open and explorative.

NinSageJune 23, 2011

I'll grant you the cover system.  That has Western origins.  I don't think linear gameplay is exclusive to a region as much as certain franchises.

Got any specifics on the "global" statement.  After all, no one says "this game is designed to appeal to a narrow audience - I don't think it should come out in other regions", right?

As for the aesthetics, if all you see is lines on a screen that's your opinion.  I personally think it's a tone that applies to the whole of the content.  And that style is clearly not Western.  Agree/disagree?

I mean, Mario, Zelda, Metroid, Kirby, even Dragon Quest ... these are all made in Japan but their aesthetics, their tone, is not the same as the Final Fantasy games and until Lords of Shadow, the Castlevania games. See the difference?


CericJune 23, 2011

Can someone give me a link to Neal's story on all the 10 Review games on the site?  I can't seem to find it and its not in the sidebar and Neal pumps out news content as fast as an IT worker to free food so, I can't go to his little profile thing for it.

Quote from: Ceric

Can someone give me a link to Neal's story on all the 10 Review games on the site?  I can't seem to find it and its not in the sidebar and Neal pumps out news content as fast as an IT worker to free food so, I can't go to his little profile thing for it.

I'm no IT worker! You can find it on the Features tab, though since we're pumping out features left and right, the pages moves a lot. :X

http://www.nintendoworldreport.com/feature/26784

CericJune 23, 2011

Quote from: NWR_Neal

Quote from: Ceric

Can someone give me a link to Neal's story on all the 10 Review games on the site?  I can't seem to find it and its not in the sidebar and Neal pumps out news content as fast as an IT worker to free food so, I can't go to his little profile thing for it.

I'm no IT worker! You can find it on the Features tab, though since we're pumping out features left and right, the pages moves a lot. :X

http://www.nintendoworldreport.com/feature/26784

They said News I'm fairly sure that might have been the problem.  Your a Freelance Game Journalist and Site Director.  I don't know that's awfully close.

Also Dr. Metts is my new Hero.  He gave Mario Sunshine a 10, even though I dock it to 9.9 because it introduced Bowser Jr.. Also WW and TP... lol.

CericJune 23, 2011

Don't Bastardize Mario 3 Yo. (In response to the 3DS Mario)

That actually annoys me in a game. (I actually forget what this was to but these are in time order)

RFN Readership just drops like a stone due to Chronotrain is gone.

Hunt down the GBA version of Super Mario Bros. 3 so its portable.  It is excellent. (Never playing Mario 3)

You got a Ratchet and Clank.  I'm very jealous. (Darn you Greg)

My Light stop turning on.  I get them and only find out after I open my 3DS. (3DS Streetpass)

Clicky Circle pad would work better then clicky Analog.

You NES Max Hater. (Dr. Metts)

I like Circle Pad, NES Max Hater. (Still Dr. Metts.  Meanie)

There, There Greg it will be ok. (You can always simulate Yoshi Epic Yarn with a Yoshi doll.  Or a felt landscape setup with you in a Yoshi Suit.)

Jonathon Metts: Living Proof that owning a 3DS is Loving a 3DS

Zach will have you James. (On 3DS Dinosaur game)

Jonny is trying to get the Slim Jim Contract. (It really did sort of sound like an Oh Yaaaa.... or maybe Kool-aid Man.  I haven't seen him in a very long time.)

Game Spelunking at Lindy's for the Anniversary or do the whole episode with everyone transcribing out what they said and using words from past episodes to speak them so it be like a Podcast Ransom letter... You know that would be a good name for Podcast.  Podcast Ransom Letter PRL for short but said Pearl.

PlugabugzJune 27, 2011

James' line of the episode: "Cleanup on Aisle Jonny"

TJ SpykeJuly 05, 2011

The Z button on the GameCube controller was not bad, I found it extremely easy to access and use.

I have only gotten to use SpotPass with my 3DS twice, I guess it would help if I lived in a large city like Los Angeles or New York City.

Quote from: TJ

The Z button on the GameCube controller was not bad, I found it extremely easy to access and use.

I have only gotten to use SpotPass with my 3DS twice, I guess it would help if I lived in a large city like Los Angeles or New York City.

I have not engaged in the passing of streets since E3.

ShyGuyJuly 05, 2011

There is something sordid about these casual streetpass encounters. James wants to be on the streets, walking past people, spotting a Johnathan Metts, doing a transaction...

I got my 3DS at launch. I carry it with me pretty much everywhere. I have not yet gotten a single StreetPass.

CericJuly 06, 2011

Quote from: NWR_insanolord

I got my 3DS at launch. I carry it with me pretty much everywhere. I have not yet gotten a single StreetPass.

I've been luckier then that.  Are you sure you have your Mii setup?  I normally get 1 from going to game stores.

Yeah, I have it set up. I haven't been to a game store with it, though, since I primarily buy games on Amazon. Last time I went to Best Buy I walked around in the games section for five minutes before checking out and still got nothing.

CericJuly 06, 2011

I find Gamestop to be better.  Especially since they are small enough to allow you to slow cruise by with the system on the passenger door.

I was at Best Buy picking up something else and decided since I was already there to do that. I don't care enough about it to go out of my way to get these, and I only go to GameStop when I have no other options.

I think my overall biggest beef with Chrono Trigger is that sometimes you're left with absolutely no clue where to go whatsoever, and no way to get a clear clue either.  There are a couple of puzzles that come down to sheer trial and error.  I think other RPGs of the period do this better, and certainly RPG design has improved a bit in that department as well (see DQ9).

Aside from that, once you get to time travel Chrono Trigger is pretty fantastic.  I wouldn't call it the Best Game Ever (and I don't think that I would have called it that at the time either; it'd have to take a back seat behind Super Metroid and FF VI, and probably Super Mario RPG as well), but I'd attribute that more to my leanings towards the darker art style/feel of Final Fantasy than the lighter art style/feel of Chrono Trigger.

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