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Episode 209: Dubious Magnanimity

by James Jones, Greg Leahy, Jon Lindemann, and Jonathan Metts - September 5, 2010, 2:37 pm PDT
Total comments: 40

Metroid: Other M is finally here, and the podcast crew is all over it.

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As you know, three of the four RFN crew are big Metroid fans, so it should be no surprise that this week's episode jumps right into a half-hour round of impressions and critique of Other M, with more to come soon. James was zoned out during the Other M talk, but we pull him back in for an update on his RPG saga, this time with Tales of Innocence, a Japan-only DS title with impressive presentation. Greg also has a recommendation for the WiiWare version of And Yet It Moves, while Jonny is lukewarm but satisfied with Prince of Persia: The Forgotten Sands.

Our second segment kicks off with a mini-feature discussion on the topic of hardware price drops, inspired by the upcoming $20 discounts on DSi and DSi XL. Is that enough price change to spur sales, either among us or the general public? We dip into the history and meaning of price drops and their effects on the market.

The show ends with a sampling of Listener Mail. First up: is it wrong to wish failure upon Kinect and Move? Finally, we consider which games and art styles will look good in perpetuity. Thanks for the letters, and keep them coming!

This podcast was edited by Greg Leahy.

Music for this episode of Radio Free Nintendo is used with permission from Jason Ricci & New Blood. You can purchase their newest album, Done with the Devil, directly from the record label, Amazon (CD) (MP3), or iTunes, or call your local record store and ask for it!

Additional music for this episode of Radio Free Nintendo is copyrighted to Nintendo, and is included under fair use protection.

Talkback

greybrickNathan Mustafa, Staff AlumnusSeptember 05, 2010

Quote:

As you know, three of the four RFN crew are big Metroid fans, so it should be no surprise that this week's episode jumps right into a half-hour round of impressions and critique of Other M, with more to come soon. James was zoned out during the Other M talk, but we pull him back in for an update on his RPG saga

This is frighteningly similar to the start of this week's Newscast,

Quote:

Three quarters of the Newscast crew have played Metroid: Other M, and thus a large portion of the opening half-hour of the show deals with our thoughts and impressions of the game.



...and when you consider exactly which members were doing what it makes the end of Newcast double scary.

BboySeptember 05, 2010

I'm about to download this and I'm really hoping you guys like it, because it seems like I'm the only Other M apologist out there. I really do like it, and the story, particularly the Ridley scenes, and right afterwards where Samus says, "Any objections, Adam?" and gives herself the Screw Attack. I think both times, I said, "Oh shit! That's awesome."

Quote from: greybrick

Quote:

As you know, three of the four RFN crew are big Metroid fans, so it should be no surprise that this week's episode jumps right into a half-hour round of impressions and critique of Other M, with more to come soon. James was zoned out during the Other M talk, but we pull him back in for an update on his RPG saga

This is frighteningly similar to the start of this week's Newscast,

Quote:

Three quarters of the Newscast crew have played Metroid: Other M, and thus a large portion of the opening half-hour of the show deals with our thoughts and impressions of the game.



...and when you consider exactly which members were doing what it makes the end of Newcast double scary.

LOLOLOLOL

SarailSeptember 05, 2010

Quote from: Bboy

I'm about to download this and I'm really hoping you guys like it, because it seems like I'm the only Other M apologist out there. I really do like it, and the story, particularly the Ridley scenes, and right afterwards where Samus says, "Any objections, Adam?" and gives herself the Screw Attack. I think both times, I said, "Oh shit! That's awesome."

God, yes. I loved that part. :D  I'm with you, man. I absolutely adore this game. One of the best Metroid titles out there. I rank it as my second favorite next to Super Metroid. I love it.

happyastoriaSeptember 05, 2010

Jonny, I have have one question for you: Is the writing in Other M as bad as Heavy Rain?

Not sure if you're trolling Heavy Rain, but Other M's writing is much worse.

Haven't listened to this yet--it'll be my listening material for my long drive tomorrow morning. I picked Other M up after all the contraversy... So far I'm mostly enjoying the gameplay, aside from getting stuck a few times, but the writing is horrid. Surprisingly, the digital D-pad controls are not bothering me nearly as much as they did during E3.

Kytim89September 05, 2010

Is Other M worth paying full price for or should I wait for some kind of deal?

Since it's a Nintendo-published game, it'll never get an actual price drop. Given your avatar and signature, I'd go ahead and buy the game.

Kytim89September 05, 2010

Quote from: Halbred

Since it's a Nintendo-published game, it'll never get an actual price drop. Given your avatar and signature, I'd go ahead and buy the game.


Yes, I plan to keep my avatar and signature to commemorate Other M and until I can find another more suitable avatar for my tastes.

Zach, I could not help buy notice that you are a fan of HP Lovecraft. A few months ago I sent you a blog about his work and I was wondering if you got it? If so, what did you think?

TJ SpykeSeptember 05, 2010

Quote from: Halbred

Since it's a Nintendo-published game, it'll never get an actual price drop. Given your avatar and signature, I'd go ahead and buy the game.

Excitebots: Trick Racing would like to have a word with you.

SarailSeptember 05, 2010

Quote from: Kytim89

Is Other M worth paying full price for or should I wait for some kind of deal?

Absolutely, Kytim. It's a great game from beginning to end, and a great Metroid experience overall, too.  Fantastic gameplay, a fun story, and some amazingly intense boss fights, too. You'll have a great time all the way through. Some of the item collection will require you to flex your brain muscles, too... which creates for a very rewarding Metroid adventure.

I say go for it. You won't regret it.

Kytim89September 05, 2010

Quote from: Rachtman

Quote from: Kytim89

Is Other M worth paying full price for or should I wait for some kind of deal?

Absolutely, Kytim. It's a great game from beginning to end, and a great Metroid experience overall, too.  Fantastic gameplay, a fun story, and some amazingly intense boss fights, too. You'll have a great time all the way through. Some of the item collection will require you to flex your brain muscles, too... which creates for a very rewarding Metroid adventure.

I say go for it. You won't regret it.


How are the visuals? I have that the graphics of the game look on par with the HD consoles. I have also heared that it is by far the best looking title for the wii so far, but Skyward Sword might trump it from this title, or will it?

SarailSeptember 05, 2010

Quote from: Kytim89

Quote from: Rachtman

Quote from: Kytim89

Is Other M worth paying full price for or should I wait for some kind of deal?

Absolutely, Kytim. It's a great game from beginning to end, and a great Metroid experience overall, too.  Fantastic gameplay, a fun story, and some amazingly intense boss fights, too. You'll have a great time all the way through. Some of the item collection will require you to flex your brain muscles, too... which creates for a very rewarding Metroid adventure.

I say go for it. You won't regret it.


How are the visuals? I have that the graphics of the game look on par with the HD consoles. I have also heared that it is by far the best looking title for the wii so far, but Skyward Sword might trump it from this title, or will it?

It's definitely a great looking game. Very corridor driven just like Super Metroid was... which is the one aspect that I feel helps drive home why the gameplay is so great -- battles are intense. What I think impresses me most graphically, is the fact that Team Ninja normal-mapped the crap out of Samus and her Power Suit. It looks amazing.

broodwarsSeptember 05, 2010

Quote from: Kytim89

Quote from: Rachtman

Quote from: Kytim89

Is Other M worth paying full price for or should I wait for some kind of deal?

Absolutely, Kytim. It's a great game from beginning to end, and a great Metroid experience overall, too.  Fantastic gameplay, a fun story, and some amazingly intense boss fights, too. You'll have a great time all the way through. Some of the item collection will require you to flex your brain muscles, too... which creates for a very rewarding Metroid adventure.

I say go for it. You won't regret it.


How are the visuals? I have that the graphics of the game look on par with the HD consoles. I have also heared that it is by far the best looking title for the wii so far, but Skyward Sword might trump it from this title, or will it?

You know, you could just...oh say...read the Metroid Other M forum thread here to answer most of these questions.  -_-'

I do have to disagree with the podcast on the visuals, though: while the game can look lovely at times, technically and artistically the game is overall a bit "meh" IMO, with lots of blocky models and bland environments.  If Prime 3 could look like a 360 game at times with Retro's usual polish, this game often looks to me like a GameCube game.  In the end, it doesn't really hurt the game, but it does bug me a bit when I hear all these podcasts praising the visuals as "almost being HD".

Kytim89September 05, 2010

This entire forum should write a STRONGLY(emphasis) to Adam Sessler of G4 for giving this game a two out of five. What do you say?

greybrickNathan Mustafa, Staff AlumnusSeptember 05, 2010

Quote from: Kytim89

This entire forum should write a STRONGLY(emphasis) to Adam Sessler of G4 for giving this game a two out of five. What do you say?

It looks like Sessler didn't write the review for G4, and I know he didn't narrate it. He didn't even show up for the feedback session that dealt with the review, so I don't think I will write him a STRONGLY.

I think the review from G4 was very personal, which is fine. It appears that Ms. Heppe has strong opinions about many of the game's issues. So while we may find them to be minor, Heppe was obviously frustrated. One of the G4 staffers on their feedback panel even pointed out that their coverage of the game has blown the story elements out of proportion (I am paraphrasing of course.) Heppe, on the other hand continued to complain about misogyny she encountered on the internet. She appears to feel very strongly about how Samus was portrayed, and she definitely dwells on that whenever speaking about the game.

I think at this point Heppe feels as if she has been backed into a corner, so writing her a letter may just aggravate her, or it may genuinely hurt her.

If you disagree with her opinion, what is the point of trying to correct her via an email? Her review doesn't negate your positive experience with the game. If G4's viewers can't understand where Heppe is coming from, and frame that relative to their own point of view, that is just their loss.


Kytim89September 05, 2010

Quote from: greybrick

Quote from: Kytim89

This entire forum should write a STRONGLY(emphasis) to Adam Sessler of G4 for giving this game a two out of five. What do you say?

It looks like Sessler didn't write the review for G4, and I know he didn't narrate it. He didn't even show up for the feedback session that dealt with the review, so I don't think I will write him a STRONGLY.

I think the review from G4 was very personal, which is fine. It appears that Ms. Heppe has strong opinions about many of the game's issues. So while we may find them to be minor, Heppe was obviously frustrated. One of the G4 staffers on their feedback panel even pointed out that their coverage of the game has blown the story elements out of proportion (I am paraphrasing of course.) Heppe, on the other hand continued to complain about misogyny she encountered on the internet. She appears to feel very strongly about how Samus was portrayed, and she definitely dwells on that whenever speaking about the game.

I think at this point Heppe feels as if she has been backed into a corner, so writing her a letter may just aggravate her, or it may genuinely hurt her.

If you disagree with her opinion, what is the point of trying to correct her via an email? Her review doesn't negate your positive experience with the game. If G4's viewers can't understand where Heppe is coming from, and frame that relative to their own point of view, that is just their loss.


I mistook the reviewer for that game on G4 and thought that it was Sessler. We should still write a letter to G4 any way.

greybrickNathan Mustafa, Staff AlumnusSeptember 05, 2010

What would you say, and what exactly would you be trying to accomplish?

Kytim89September 06, 2010

Quote from: greybrick

What would you say, and what exactly would you be trying to accomplish?


It was a joke, Greybrick. ;D

This entire conversation makes my brain beg my skull to implode in on it.

I came to this thread for the James, I stay for his avatar.

KDR_11kSeptember 06, 2010

I wouldn't be surprised if the Treehouse got instructions to keep the script intact since Sakamoto put so much emphasis into it.

There was something else I wanted to comment on but I forgot what it was...

jrlibrarianJeffrey Trewin, Associate EditorSeptember 06, 2010

Thank you so much for the mention in this week's episode.


On that note, would you mind if I created a short commercial about my Theremin Hero adventures and my run-in with Chris Kohler that could be played during the next episode?

Great Metroid discussion, guys. I eagerly await the chance to talk about the post-game with ya'll later this week.

The "Enjoy Your Massage" segment had me laughing my ass off. Every time I think about that game, I think about the scene in Austin Powers where he offers Felicity Shagwell a "Sensual ma-ssage."

SeacorSeptember 06, 2010

Thanks for the great laughs you provided me during the post-show left-over talk about "Enjoy your Massage."  Based on your downloads, Wiiware recommends Cho Aniki, Cho Aniki, Cho Aniki... Good stuff.

adadadSeptember 06, 2010

Glad to hear Jonny that you're still planning on doing a spoiler heavy follow up on Mother 3, as personally I was disappointed with the Retroactive discussion. Someone mentioned during its brief initial discussion on RFN that the game seems to be building to something, and that was the sense I had throughout the majority of the game. This was the big topic I was hoping for discussion on - whether the game makes good on its build up. I feel as Mother 3 is paced more like an old fashioned novel, or a Japanese film than a game, as the plot development starts off slow (aside from the major event in chapter 1 which sets up the whole story) but quickens considerably toward the end. As a result the forum thread ended up becoming primarily a discussion of the divisive ending, and arguably that is what the game relies on as its primary compelling feature (at least this was the sole reason I persevered when I had a tough time with the bosses - my fault for not realising about the frog banks...). I haven't played it, but to me Mother 3 was just like Johnny described Heavy Rain, where there is a combination of hope and expectation that the conclusion to the plot will prove satisfying that motivates playing through to the end.

Also more on the topic of this episode specifically, when the last email from Steve was read I mistook the meaning of it, and at first I thought it had been misunderstood by the crew and was planning on writing that here, but listening back it was me who misinterpreted it. Still I think my mistake could be a potentially interesting question in its own right, even if it is somewhat similar, so I'll be emailing that soon.

Oh yes and just to add to the growing string of approving comments, the stinger to this episode was absolutely hilarious, loved it!

I pretty much entirely agree with Jonny on Other M. An excellent game with cringeworthy, VERY bad, VERY Japanese writing. Which is funny given how much I disliked the E3 demo. The game is definitely closer to the 2D Metroids. The final boss of the main story is a little lame but I look forward to the post-game when I get back home.

Mop it upSeptember 06, 2010

Quote from: broodwars

You know, you could just...oh say...read the Metroid Other M forum thread here to answer most of these questions.  -_-'

To be fair, that thread is rife with spoilers, not all of which are marked.

Quote from: Kytim89

This entire forum should write a STRONGLY(emphasis) to Adam Sessler of G4 for giving this game a two out of five. What do you say?

Don't you think you should play the game before demanding anything like this?

Glad to hear that the people who played Other M enjoyed it and James remained to be James.

Also, glad to hear that Jon probably put more time into Enjoy Your Massage than he will probably put into Other M. Much love, bro.

greybrickNathan Mustafa, Staff AlumnusSeptember 07, 2010

Quote from: MegaByte

Quote from: Kytim89

This entire forum should write a STRONGLY(emphasis) to Adam Sessler of G4 for giving this game a two out of five. What do you say?

Don't you think you should play the game before demanding anything like this?

Apparently, MegaByte, he was joking. If you go back a page that was how he responded to my similar line of questioning.

anandSeptember 08, 2010

Jonny, you played the WRONG version of Prince of Persia, man. I believe the Wii version does have the same subtitle, which is stupid, but it is completely different and waaaaay better (with some amazing extras, to boot). One of the best third-party games of the year and probably Ubisoft's best game on the system, for my money. A sadly overlooked gem that is certainly worth the $20 that it generally goes for these days.

The story-telling is not quite up to the same standard as Sands of Time (what is?) and it also fails to relate to the original trilogy in any meaningful way, but you DO get a sort of female 'Navi'-type companion that follows you around, and, most importantly, the game feels like something new, unlike the 360 version. Not only something new, but something that could only be done on the Wii*. It's a little unpolished, but a true diamond in the rough. Very cool game, and you owe it to yourself and your listeners to give it a try. You owe it to the Prince.


*pre-Move

Anand is right. Neal shipped me a copy of the game and, while I haven't beaten it yet, I very much enjoy it. There are parts of it that recall the 2008 reboot, in fact.

I was planning on buying the Wii version of Prince of Persia, but I ended up buying the 360 version because I played it at PAX and had fun with it. Then again, I never played any of the original Sands of Time trilogy.

Kytim89September 08, 2010

Jonny, I read your article in the latest edition of EGM. Although I read it in the middle of a buisy grocery store, I had to skim over parts of it, but over all, I though it was a good article. I wrote a similar article in high school in which I compared the ESRB rating for games to product labels for food and automobiles.

SundoulosSeptember 08, 2010

Quote from: anand

Jonny, you played the WRONG version of Prince of Persia, man. I believe the Wii version does have the same subtitle, which is stupid, but it is completely different and waaaaay better (with some amazing extras, to boot). One of the best third-party games of the year and probably Ubisoft's best game on the system, for my money. A sadly overlooked gem that is certainly worth the $20 that it generally goes for these days.

The story-telling is not quite up to the same standard as Sands of Time (what is?) and it also fails to relate to the original trilogy in any meaningful way, but you DO get a sort of female 'Navi'-type companion that follows you around, and, most importantly, the game feels like something new, unlike the 360 version. Not only something new, but something that could only be done on the Wii*. It's a little unpolished, but a true diamond in the rough. Very cool game, and you owe it to yourself and your listeners to give it a try. You owe it to the Prince.


*pre-Move

Hmm... based on that recommendation, I think that I'd like to find the game.  I never was too interested in it because I had felt that the story of that Prince had already played out, and I really just couldn't find a compelling reason to want to enter that world again.  Also, it just seemed highly likely that the game would turn out to be a  soulless cash-grab due to the loose movie tie-ins.  I haven't had the opportunity to play the 2008 reboot, either, but I'd like to.  Ultimately, I wish that efforts to continue the franchise had followed that thread instead. 

Kytim, thanks for the EGM article feedback.


anand, thanks for the recommendation. Not sure if I'll get a chance to play it with everything else coming out, but I'll keep the Wii version in mind.

FZeroBoyoSeptember 10, 2010

The Enjoy Your Massage! part was quite enjoyable, with all the Cho Aniki references at the end along with everyone's incredulous reaction to the apparent price tag.  :D

anandSeptember 11, 2010

Cool, more people getting turned on to PoP: TFS Wii! It's one of the few games that is better on the Wii than the HD twins. (There are quite a few franchises that are better on handhelds, though.)

To give you guys a taste of the unlockable goodness: 2.5D Prince of Persia challenges, the SNES version of the original, and Prince of Persia: Mystery Dungeon. For realz. It's basic, but still pretty cool. I loved those extras. I wish more companies included cool extra content like that. Stuff that subverts the game's rules in interesting ways.

I liked the characters in PoP 2008, but I was really disappointed in the story-telling mechanic. The way you had to stop and push the 'talk' button to hear more, I mean. My favorite part about Sands of Time was the seamless integration of dialogue. Instead of just sitting and watching, you were playing and listening. I see that game as one of the pillars of great video-game story-telling, along with Super Metroid and maybe ICO. But PoP 2008 ignored the lessons of Sands of Time, just as Metroid Prime and Other M ignored the lessons of Super Metroid.

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